So, without giving specifics of course. Only certain types of spiders drop spider carapace, and said spiders can't really be tackled solo, or even in a group based on NPC AI RNG. But that a side, I think all spiders should drop their carapace, as it makes no sense as why only a specific type would drop them. On top of this, nearly every spider you come across, no matter how dangerous or difficult, are incredibly unrewarding to fight, as their current skinning returns are borderline useless. This causes spiders in the south to be more of a random threat to new characters, and an annoying nuisance to older characters.

Also as a side note, I do think some skinning returns need to be consolidated and fixed, snakes dropping three different types of scales that all have their own recipes but only if you're in certain clans feels more like an oversight than something intentional.

I know this is related, but also not directly related:

"Sand silk" from spiders was supposed to be a more commoner-accessible silk.

The way spiders drop the materials needed, and the work needed to acquire this stuff, it may as well be worth more than silk.



More related: Spiders should have a chance to skin their legs. Sick and tired of 300+ scrab legs littering your streets? Spiders have MORE LEGS.

Quote from: Riev on October 04, 2023, 11:10:14 AMI know this is related, but also not directly related:

"Sand silk" from spiders was supposed to be a more commoner-accessible silk.

The way spiders drop the materials needed, and the work needed to acquire this stuff, it may as well be worth more than silk.



More related: Spiders should have a chance to skin their legs. Sick and tired of 300+ scrab legs littering your streets? Spiders have MORE LEGS.

Agreed, spider silk requires a full expedition which is hard to get people together all at the same time for. But also, because of the jank of mass-combat, you can have 5 people working together to get spider silk, but then all 5 spiders in the room can just attack a singular person and kill them.

It also takes, with perfect rolls, like 1.5 (things) to make a single length of sandsilk.

Or, since you clearly have clothworking? You have haggle. go buy silk.

Spiders aren't vending machines, they are trying to eat you!

The title makes me balk, but yet it wouldn't be unreasonable to adjust the tables some or have a different type of carapace.

I'm on the spiders side to be honest though, I want more skinning rewards for humanoids.

.../starts to ramble even farther off topic/

Quote from: Dracul on October 04, 2023, 02:27:17 PMSpiders aren't vending machines, they are trying to eat you!

The title makes me balk, but yet it wouldn't be unreasonable to adjust the tables some or have a different type of carapace.

I'm on the spiders side to be honest though, I want more skinning rewards for humanoids.

.../starts to ramble even farther off topic/

Yeah the title was supposed to be 'skinning returns' but I think I had a bit of a mixup in my brain when I wrote it.

Quote from: Riev on October 04, 2023, 11:10:14 AMI know this is related, but also not directly related:

"Sand silk" from spiders was supposed to be a more commoner-accessible silk.

The way spiders drop the materials needed, and the work needed to acquire this stuff, it may as well be worth more than silk.

I have always found this odd. For the amount of stress and effort, it's just...not worth it.

I think we can all agree that we need more spider legs.

Craft leg 2.leg into a pair of wobbly stilts
craft leg into a brittle spider-leg skinning knife

Make spider hair pullable from all the spider skinnables like bark off a tree?

Not everything is supposed to be mega rewarding to hunt. Some things are hunting you.

It's not about things being loot-piniatas, it's about consistency and logic. It makes no sense for only one type of spider to drop their carapace, nearly every single creature in the game can be skinned for their shell or hide. Making a mob that's only purpose is to be a pain despite logic is very gamey in what's supposed to be a roleplaying game, so I really hope that's not the intent.

Quote from: Inks on October 04, 2023, 10:46:43 PMNot everything is supposed to be mega rewarding to hunt. Some things are hunting you.

And I for one, would like to run around with a cloak made out of my hunting spoils, of these apex predators 

Sounds like it's intentional to me, especially in the south where silks are limited to the higher classes and seeing how hard that stuff is to get, it keeps the prices up.

Stuffs not supposed to be easy. If it was we Zalanthians would have figured out how to farm specific animals and creatures and we haven't. Even the massive GMH's with their seemingly unlimited resources are dependent on brave hunters to risk life and limb to provide them with their materials. So is life.

Quote from: Tailong on October 05, 2023, 10:17:47 AMSounds like it's intentional to me, especially in the south where silks are limited to the higher classes and seeing how hard that stuff is to get, it keeps the prices up.

Stuffs not supposed to be easy. If it was we Zalanthians would have figured out how to farm specific animals and creatures and we haven't. Even the massive GMH's with their seemingly unlimited resources are dependent on brave hunters to risk life and limb to provide them with their materials. So is life.

I think the issue isn't that it's too hard to get the silk, the issue is that the more expensive silk is easier to get than the cheaper silk, which does feel a little backwards.

As kavrick said. I think you may have missed the point, Tailong.

Its not "make silk easier for my commoner", its that SPIDER SILK was specifically introduced to be a "more accessible" silk for well-to-do commoners and REAL SILK can be for the Lords and Ladies of the realm.

You know how I know that?

QuoteThis rougher fabric is a poor imitation of quality silk and dangerously won as it is most commonly harvested from the spiders that spin it. The process of working it has been refined by Kadian hands. While it can carry the shine of northern silk, the final product often feels more coarse by comparison despite its looser weave.

Yes, working it has been 'refined' by Kadian hands, but the process of even GETTING it to a Kadian is not worth the opportunity cost. Why not just use real silk? Or just not order sandsilk at all, because it may as well be made of mekillot hide for its difficulty.

Quote from: Tailong on October 05, 2023, 10:17:47 AMIf it was we Zalanthians would have figured out how to farm specific animals and creatures and we haven't.

Also I wanted to touch on the fact that Zalanthans has absolutely domesticated and farmed specific animals.
Escru
Chalton
Byn Barakhan Lizards
Even Mekillots are tamed and used to pull argosies.

Entire Noble Houses are DEDICATED to animal husbandry.

Quote from: Riev on October 05, 2023, 04:21:04 PM

Quote from: Tailong on October 05, 2023, 10:17:47 AMIf it was we Zalanthians would have figured out how to farm specific animals and creatures and we haven't.

Also I wanted to touch on the fact that Zalanthans has absolutely domesticated and farmed specific animals.
Escru
Chalton
Byn Barakhan Lizards
Even Mekillots are tamed and used to pull argosies.

Entire Noble Houses are DEDICATED to animal husbandry.

I meant as PC usable crafts or objects, sorry I was trying to be cheeky and should have specificed.

+1.

although it feels like it would make more sense for spiders or groups of spiders to move around often and leave behind clusters of webbing that would then be harvested.

the core concept of spidersilk being that it's easier for nobility in the vrun to get than northern silk, i don't see how harvesting it could require massive hunting parties or units of byn. at that point how is it not cheaper to just buy silk?

spidersilk's main resource has to be accessible and obtainable by a only a moderately-skilled grebber or else the cost of getting it seems prohibitive.

the market value and supply would still be completely in the hands of the kadians who refine that into usable spidersilk, and then who also weave that spidersilk into garments.