... I'd play it in such a way as to give Borsail a reason to even be open right now.
But more about that in a moment, first I wanna talk to the new players on the forums and give them a bit of information they might not know:
1) Allanak has an arena. It's south of the Bazaar, near the Atrium. We used to use this as a place to hold arena events, or to execute Delerak's latest PCs. Now it's mostly just a place to solo-RP jogging if you have a dorf with a focus on cardio.
2) When you hear bells chiming in Allanak it means there's an arena event or execution about to start in the arena, and you got about 10 minutes to hustle on over there to watch it.
3) Borsail also used to have a clan for combat-focused PCs called "The Wyverns" that used to go out and capture things for the arena. I think they retried it a couple years ago, but it failed because the leader stored when he couldn't find the right bedazzled skinny jeans to go with his mask or something...
Alright, so Borsail is supposedly the premier Noble House of Allanak. They got there by owning the slave market and the Arena. Since there are no slave PCs or Arena events anymore, I think it's more accurate to say that "Borsail is the premier house to play a Mary Sue whose hair is complimented by the color red." At that rate, it's kind of surprising that they're open instead of Tor, though I -suspect- that the reason is so that Oash and Borsail nobles can secretly have secret Red vs Blue ginka wrestling matches over at that bar in Meleth's Circle. Maybe someday I'll shadow someone in there and find out...
So, anyways, Borsail has no arena events anymore and hires no combat PCs anymore. But you can fix that! You, person who is not me and who can stand to play both social-only roles and leaders. Here are some ideas to include in your special app to make it stand out:
1) Instead of hiring slavers, why not hire gladiators? This is probably more of an imm/doc level change, but could probably be pushed towards in IC ways. I've had a Noble hire me as a bodyguard when that wasn't an actual clan role. People have been hired as barbers and stuff. Hire yourself some PC gladiators d00der. Failing that...
2) Start a Citizen Gladiators program of some kind. Any indie or clannie who can get permission from their Sarge can join a group of fighters that hold an arena event every IG month (2 weeks IRL) or whatever.
3) Start a "Champion of Allanak" contest, held yearly, where the latest sparring circle tough guys (of Allanaki birth and human blood) can compete in the arena for the glory of being named the "Champion of Allanak." Bonus points for style if the title is accompanied by an improbably large and shiny belt.
4) This one isn't for prospective Borsail Nobles but rather for the Templars, and it's secret, so come in real close so I can whisper it in your ear... "Psst. Did you know that killing people in the arena adds both length and girth to your penis? Penis is a hidden skill. It's also the only skill that loses points when you type "order big subdue elf; order 2.big kill elf" when you could be typing "pull cord" in the Arena!"
Interested in playing a Noble to do these things, but don't have a concept? Don't worry, I got you covered there too!
Title: Make Borsail Great Again!
Sdesc: the paunchy, orange-touped braggadocio
The rest is up to you!
This is excellent. I second this sentiment.
If I wasn't totally into my role right now, I would probably actually put in my first rolecall app ever... But I am totally into my role right now, so take some initiative Jesse!
Can confirm that 'Penis' is a hidden skill on all characters that only grows in size when you murder people in the arena.
what an original idea. i'm sure no borsail in the last two RL years has thought to round together gladiators.
(http://cdn2.crushable.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Kristen-Bell-Reefer-Madness-youre-so-smart.gif)
Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on April 01, 2016, 08:57:58 AM
If I wasn't totally into my role right now, I would probably actually put in my first rolecall app ever... But I am totally into my role right now, so take some initiative Jesse!
Trust me, every Borsail noble wants to hire gladiators.
It's awfully hard to do so when you're only allowed two aides and can't hire any combatants though. For some darn strange reason, nobody wants to join a clan as a fighter when you can't actually join the clan as a fighter!
Quote from: TheWanderer on April 01, 2016, 09:01:15 AM
what an original idea. i'm sure no borsail in the last two RL years has thought to round together gladiators.
I feel like you picked 2 years because whatever you're referring to happened like 1 year and 8 months ago or something. But honestly 2
months without sweet, sweet arena is too long, IMO. We used to be murdering people in there almost on the weekly. Back in my day. Sonny.
Make the underground arena.
Staff can't tell us what to do!
Quote from: LauraMars on April 01, 2016, 09:19:30 AM
Trust me, every Borsail noble wants to hire gladiators.
It's awfully hard to do so when you're only allowed two aides and can't hire any combatants though. For some darn strange reason, nobody wants to join a clan as a fighter when you can't actually join the clan as a fighter!
I never thought I'd hear the words "only 2 aides" before. You do make a fair point, and I did preamble that idea with "this is probably something for the staffer shorties". But that still leaves two good ideas to make the Arena Great again. LauraMars, you are a gorgeous woman, and I believe that if you weren't my daughter I'd probably be dating you.
uuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, thanks.............dad?
edit: oh wait, trump reference. got it.
You wouldn't have your job as helper if you weren't beautiful.
Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on April 01, 2016, 08:57:58 AM
If I wasn't totally into my role right now, I would probably actually put in my first rolecall app ever... But I am totally into my role right now, so take some initiative Jesse!
(http://i.imgur.com/TGkIqlI.gif)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/a3YeYzPL2SsEg/giphy.gif)
Rathustra, I would be the greatest Arenas Noble that Ginka ever created. I would build such a great arena, along the Southern border of Merchant's Way. And I'd get the elves to pay for it. I have a -terrific- relationship with the elf community.
In fact, I may apply for the role in 2020.
Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on April 01, 2016, 09:22:23 AM
Quote from: TheWanderer on April 01, 2016, 09:01:15 AM
what an original idea. i'm sure no borsail in the last two RL years has thought to round together gladiators.
I feel like you picked 2 years because whatever you're referring to happened like 1 year and 8 months ago or something. But honestly 2 months without sweet, sweet arena is too long, IMO. We used to be murdering people in there almost on the weekly. Back in my day. Sonny.
I picked two years because I've seen consistent interest in rounding gladiators for far more frequent events. It peters out when you can't hire these people into the clan and you discover most current PCs aren't incredibly keen on a profession that's very likely to end in death. You then need to find PCs that were created for the sole reason of being a gladiator.
It's easier harped about on the board than done. Like most of the GDB, I'd say be the change and either play a gladiator or app the Borsail role.
Edit: And also because you made the point of the Wyverns being closed two years ago.
The Wyverns are a staggeringly un-fancy Military arm though, aside from the real pointy end who last I knew weren't PC available at all, as in you couldn't even say you were one.
Every new Borsail noble for the last couple of years has tried to hire gladiators with spectacularly bad results. People just don't want to play them. I mean, you'd think they would, but they don't.
It's the first thing they all try to do.
I've seen this attempt IC and without giving any information I don't think the person who was offered made anything out of it or died or stored or something.
You think in a world where going outside the city to be a ranger means a chance at dying every time, you think in a world like this people would take training and just risk it in the city for a living.
And in the city you could have crowds cheering your name, whores wanting your body, luxories and what not.
Idk
Maybe we could do the standard cop out of 'be the change' and make gladiator characters for Borsail? Maybe we won't. I know I won't. I like the concept though and I might in the future,
" as in you couldn't even say you were one."
I don't think this is the case but I might be wrong.
I've been watching a lot of Spartacus lately...
But no really. Nobles are all political roles. There are a lot of awesome things to do with nobles that have nothing to do with trying to make Borsail (or Tor) into a combat clan. If you go in with that mentality, you're going to get disappointed because you basically can't do it.
If you go in with the idea that your Borsail is going to reopen the Wyverns (or your Tor, the Scorpions), you are going to have a very bad time. I've seen it over and over. Unless you explicitly state that to staff in your application, make your application contingent on that, and get some statement from staff that yeah they're totally open to that with the consolidation of the playerbase now.
The Amber Wyverns experienced pretty much a clan wipe at the hands of mantis and efforts to get them going again failed due to leader storages and leaderless recruit deaths, and staff closed the clan. Most the PC Borsail nobles have lamented the loss because it severely hamstrings the ability to pull off the role.
Don't know of any time when you couldn't say you were one if you were, though?
Well, that's disappointing as fuck. I wouldn't be caught dead playing a noble or an aide. I'd get bored to death within a month and either stop playing or store. And then have
that account note to deal with... I know that about myself, therefore I don't do that thing. Better for everybody, really.
Quote from: valeria on April 01, 2016, 10:26:21 AM
There are a lot of awesome things to do with nobles that have nothing to do with trying to make Borsail (or Tor) into a combat clan.
If you consider tdescing your hair and gossip mongering to be awesome. I'm of the opinion that if the thing you're doing only effects the 6 people you're socially allowed to interact with (only 2 o whom you actually like), then it's probably not all that awesome, and really just part of the neigh invisible political circle jerk. But I guess some people are into that sort of thing...
Quote from: valeria on April 01, 2016, 10:26:21 AM
If you go in with the idea that your Borsail is going to reopen the Wyverns (or your Tor, the Scorpions), you are going to have a very bad time.
This is a sad, sad state of affairs and makes me realize that it's probably not right to aim all of my ire at the players on this one. But I still think there are ways you could make this sort of thing working...
As far as players not wanting to play gladiators, I think that's circumstantially flawed. If Borsail could hire and train gladiators as an open, recruit IG part of the clan, I bet we'd have gladiators. I understand that they can't actually do that thing (*shakes fist at the sky*), but if you just put a post on the rumor board one day that you're hiring gladiators, you're going to get two types:
1) People who saw that and rolled up a new character for it, and who can barely take on a scrab.
2) People who already have characters, and had to come up with some BS reason why now, in the middle of their life, they left X gig to go fight in the arena.
People want to play gladiators. There's just no reasonable opportunity to do so. (Though yeah, okay, the fault's probably not on the PCs for that one.)
But that still leaves ideas 2,3, and 4.
people want to play gladiators but there is no point to playing a gladiator who gets trained to die.
gladiators are there to be spectacles, mostly so they can rip shit apart and scream and shout.
when you kill said gladiator off, it makes other pcs not want to play one.
seems pretty obvious to me anyways.
the challenge needs to be realistically dangerous. summoning the gaj on a brand new gladiator is retarded. everyone knows this.
spoken from a cabbage who has never gladiated before.
Agreed. My person type #2 was the one that was strong enough to survive something worth watching, and he has already put 5-10 days into a concept for which it would be completely OOC to run off and fight in the arena.
But yet you sometimes see arena events where they've paid the Byn or the AOD to go kill Braxats as a unit. And people do it, because of the relative safety of numbers.
So again, I think there are ways to do it, just not ones that don't involve some kind of staff support.
People actually don't want to play gladiators because they put a lot of work into their PCs and don't want to lose them in an arena spectacle. Players are (understandably, I think) skittish about getting into the arena.
Quote from: seidhr on April 01, 2016, 11:15:11 AM
People actually don't want to play gladiators because they put a lot of work into their PCs and don't want to lose them in an arena spectacle. Players are (understandably, I think) skittish about getting into the arena.
so basically everything i said.
nobody wants to lose their pcs because the noble or templar up there summoned a fucking gaj on their day 1 pc with 12 lines of desc and 15 lines of bio.
Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on April 01, 2016, 10:57:09 AM
Quote from: valeria on April 01, 2016, 10:26:21 AM
There are a lot of awesome things to do with nobles that have nothing to do with trying to make Borsail (or Tor) into a combat clan.
If you consider tdescing your hair and gossip mongering to be awesome. I'm of the opinion that if the thing you're doing only effects the 6 people you're socially allowed to interact with (only 2 o whom you actually like), then it's probably not all that awesome, and really just part of the neigh invisible political circle jerk. But I guess some people are into that sort of thing...
I've played a noble relatively recently and that's really very unfair to both the players of nobles and the staff who are running them. I can tell that if you've played a noble, it hasn't been in the last couple of years. There is high level intrigue shit that goes on and actually affecting the game. I can't lay down the IC info on you, because it's too recent, but I can confidently tell you that there is a lot going on up there that you are simply unaware of.
Maybe it's not for you (and if your goal is to make Borsail/Tor into a combat clan when staff isn't ready for it yet, it's probably not). And that's fine. It takes all sorts in the game. But please don't disparage the work of other people when you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
Still think it's more of an implementation problem than a simple "people don't want to play gladiators." Here's why.
1) People play Bynners. A LOT of Bynners. Sure, the role is 95% riding back and forth to Luirs. But when it comes time to do an RPT battle or raid, you're basically cannon fodder in a saddle. Probably not quite as dangerous, but most definitely up there.
2) The Kuraci fighting pit is a thing. A thing where long lived clannies from Allanak willingly took the sand against clannies from Tuluk to do live weapon fights. Also bar fights are a thing. Not a dangerous thing, unless you fuck up and type "kick" on accident, but a think people do constantly to prove they have the best hidden penis score or whatever.
We want to fight each other and prove who is tuffest. It's why we're here. It's why we prioritize strength and play dwarves.
What we DON'T want is to take a 1 day played noob warrior into the arena to get reamed by a basic "elven thief" NPC. And we don't want to take our warriors who've spent 10 days training in a completely different clan and throw them up against a Gaj. Because there's no reason too; it's probably against the mindset of the character.
But I'd be willing to be that if there were some kind of gladiator program you could enroll in, train for a year, and then graduate to semi-frequent pit fights against manageable risks, or against each other (not to the death), people would play that role. But that would require staff support, which it seems gladiators don't have, outside of a rolecall every two years or so for one time throwaway actors.
Or maybe my Friday morning shower thoughts don't make great threads...
Except what noble or Templar actually does that?? None. They don't just leash the Gaj and laugh.
I've run about 20 arena events, pcs have died about two times. Unless it was specifically meant as an execution. Ten percent death rate. That's less than your typical RPT and you get to die in front of tons of spectators.
The problem with gladiator roles is all perception. They are vulnerable to the whims of the nobility...but guess what, so is your indie hunter.
What I do think is lacking is rewards. Gladiators should be the most bad ass and respected commoners in Allanak. They should get all the ladies/men they want and all kinds of special privledges.
I want one thing. An item that changes man/woman in the sdesc to Gladiator. Give that item to players who play actual gladiators and build up a reputation so the sdesc change signifies they are famous. Boom. Instant success.
Quote from: valeria on April 01, 2016, 12:13:04 PM
There is high level intrigue shit that goes on and actually affecting the game. ... there is a lot going on up there that you are simply unaware of.
These two statements seem directly in contradiction of one another to me. Intrigue isn't what I'd call highly "game affecting". By it's very nature it's secretive and non-inclusive. Sure, it might affect political structures (which 90% of PCs aren't part of), but I don't think it has a large day to day impact on the general population at all.
Quote from: valeria on April 01, 2016, 12:13:04 PM
Maybe it's not for you (and if your goal is to make Borsail/Tor into a combat clan when staff isn't ready for it yet, it's probably not). And that's fine. It takes all sorts in the game. But please don't disparage the work of other people when you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
That's fair, and I apologize that my tongue in cheek got a bit too bitter and barby.
I'd like an item that changes sdesc to Gladiator.
If they do become a more popular thing of course.
Quote from: wizturbo on April 01, 2016, 12:18:56 PM
I want one thing. An item that changes man/woman in the sdesc to Gladiator. Give that item to players who play actual gladiators and build up a reputation so the sdesc change signifies they are famous. Boom. Instant success.
That is a pretty badass idea...
Quote from: Refugee on April 01, 2016, 10:18:54 AM
Every new Borsail noble for the last couple of years has tried to hire gladiators with spectacularly bad results. People just don't want to play them. I mean, you'd think they would, but they don't.
It's the first thing they all try to do.
I started playing just before the Wyverns close, I suppose. My first PC met a couple Wyverns at the Gaj, drinking and being badass. My very next PC sat at the gates of the arena (what? that's the obvious place, right?) for weeks trying to get hired. It's funny because I was a pickpocket, like all my characters.
Re: skittishness in the arena. This seems true. There have been two PC-PC arena events in my time here, and each had very poor participation.
I once had a brand new PC who volunteered and got roflstomped by a Sergeant in His Arm in the Arena -- two hits or something. I got four kudos for that -and- staff approved my new PC within six minutes.
Quote from: wizturbo on April 01, 2016, 12:18:56 PM
The problem with gladiator roles is all perception. They are vulnerable to the whims of the nobility...but guess what, so is your indie hunter.
What I do think is lacking is rewards. Gladiators should be the most bad ass and respected commoners in Allanak. They should get all the ladies/men they want and all kinds of special privledges.
This is more my speed. Picture this. You roll up your latest high strength warrior, "the hulking, brutish dwarf". You join the Borsail Fuschia Wyverns. (Working title.) You train for about 1 year. After a year of hard training, and watching your superior clannies fight in the arena form the side lines, it's your turn. You're put to the test. Maybe to execute some criminal they just caught, maybe to fight a dujat or three gith or something. It's not an easy test, but it's designed to be something you can and should succeed at. So you fight your fight and let the roaring crowd decide. If you get a roaring yay, you're in kid. If you get a roaring "boo", too bad. Train some more. But if you're in, now you're a known entity of badass. Folks in the bar know your name. Maybe you get some neat custom thematic items. (Idk about sdesc changing, but whatever floats your boat.) And you spend the rest of your days fighting increasingly harder fights, and jokeying for position of crowd favorite.
People don't want that role? Hmm... Okay. If you say so.
Why would Borsail hire gladiators when they have slaves? Well, slaves come from somewhere. So maybe your life oath to the clan is a cleverly disguised form of slavery, but less restrictive so that people don't burn out and get bored. Why would someone sell themselves into arena slavery? Debtors did it in Rome. So, for money I guess? Since slavery is so common, and not even viewed negatively, I think people wouldn't be as adverse to it in Zalanthas as they are in modern first world countries. Plus, Allanak seems like the kind of violent culture that would celebrate these types.
Quote from: nauta on April 01, 2016, 12:35:33 PM
Re: skittishness in the arena. This seems true. There have been two PC-PC arena events in my time here, and each had very poor participation.
These used to be FAR more frequent. Mostly executions. But I swear there was a time where there were at least 2 arena bells ringing per IRL month. Not 1 a year, if that. The playerbase as a whole is WAY more skittish these days than back then, so it's not just the arena.
fuck it.
time to be the change.
Every new Borsail noble has posted on the rumor board that they're hiring gladiators. Different ideas have been tried. There's been pay, free apartments, good training, all kinds of things. It just doesn't happen. Now and then there's a bit of interest from one player or another, but it's impossible to make it happen.
Quote from: Refugee on April 01, 2016, 01:00:59 PM
it's impossible to make it happen.
Defeatist!!! ;D
If people have failed in the past, it's just because their plan wasn't good enough. Everybody loves gladiators, this much is true. I'm in the camp that it's the implementation that needs work.
Quote from: Refugee on April 01, 2016, 01:00:59 PM
Every new Borsail noble has posted on the rumor board that they're hiring gladiators. Different ideas have been tried. There's been pay, free apartments, good training, all kinds of things. It just doesn't happen. Now and then there's a bit of interest from one player or another, but it's impossible to make it happen.
It's probably because there'd be no way to actually train, unless you also get to be a Bynner at the same time, which... then you're mostly just a Bynner anyway. I bet a lot of people love the idea of playing a gladiator but don't much fancy the notion of being forever stuck at apprentice slashing weapons.
who is this asshole called impossible so i can tell them to go fuck themselves please.
i need an address.
look, anything is possible if you smash your forehead against the splintering wooden door enough times.
Yeah, it would need staff level support of some kind to be done well enough to attract players, and it sounds like that hasn't happened.
I always laugh when people say "I can provide training" in game. I'm like, "that's okay, I have my own 300 coins..."
Also, more power to ya cabbage, you delightfully crazy bastard! ;)
Quote from: Warsong on April 01, 2016, 01:10:30 PM
Quote from: Refugee on April 01, 2016, 01:00:59 PM
Every new Borsail noble has posted on the rumor board that they're hiring gladiators. Different ideas have been tried. There's been pay, free apartments, good training, all kinds of things. It just doesn't happen. Now and then there's a bit of interest from one player or another, but it's impossible to make it happen.
It's probably because there'd be no way to actually train, unless you also get to be a Bynner at the same time, which... then you're mostly just a Bynner anyway. I bet a lot of people love the idea of playing a gladiator but don't much fancy the notion of being forever stuck at apprentice slashing weapons.
I think it stands to reason that every Borsail noble
should attempt hiring gladiators and getting the arena functioning with relation to PC activity.
Why?
What does Borsail have? Let's boil it down to basics:
Oash has the gemmed.
Fale has the bards.
Tor had the Academy/Scoprions (when I played).
It isn't as though you could say ''sid and politics' is a monopoly owned by the Borsail. Nor is scheming, having aides, etc. However, without the Arena or a particular niche as seen above, you simply have a generic noble.
But look at all my slaves, Decameron! Yes, they are very pretty and very vnpc.
Let's be clear, Borsail is the best. However, in terms of viability, in getting PCs involved, and keeping them involved - the best at what, exactly? Outside of the Arena, they don't have an identifiable niche that could be used in the game itself.
This is not a knock against Borsail.
Quote from: Decameron on April 01, 2016, 01:33:30 PM
Let's be clear, Borsail is the best. However, in terms of viability, in getting PCs involved, and keeping them involved - the best at what, exactly? Outside of the Arena, they don't have an identifiable niche that could be used in the game itself.
Which is what baffles me about them even being open, in the current state of things, when there are other options. It kind of baffles me that it's so hard to get support to hire on good help for them when Fale seemingly has open license to run around hiring PCs for the most ridiculous made up jobs...
I'm trying to remember what the Amber Wyverns even
did back when they were active. Ran around trying to subdue gith, iirc. And I think they had something to do with the Mul Outpost getting sacked?
A gladiator school > a slaver army, in my not-so-humble opinion... From a playability standpoint it gives you means and reasons to hire PCs. From a gameworld standpoint it gives you support from the masses who want to be entertained.
The problem with Gladiator roles is that by the time you "train up" a gladiator, the player behind them is not going to want to sacrifice their character.
I would personally do away with the school idea and just make Gladiators an "open mic night" type job. Run events frequently, allow drop-ins. Try and attract the brand-new PCs with nothing to lose by offering them coin and and a bit of rep to win.
Yeah, I believe that was idea #2 or #3. (We got stuck on #1.)
2) Start a Citizen Gladiators program of some kind. Any indie or clannie who can get permission from their Sarge can join a group of fighters that hold an arena event every IG month (2 weeks IRL) or whatever.
3) Start a "Champion of Allanak" contest, held yearly, where the latest sparring circle tough guys (of Allanaki birth and human blood) can compete in the arena for the glory of being named the "Champion of Allanak." Bonus points for style if the title is accompanied by an improbably large and shiny belt.
as quoted from that person who is jack's opinion.
delicious ideas. i like them.
I'm particularly fond of #3. If you make the "Champion of Allanak" title come with its own custom mask you can wear during sparring, barring, and mudsex I -guarantee- you'll get a stable of fucking douche-nozzles willing to risk their lives for it. As much as the game doesn't need another mask...
hey, how dare you.
i want that mask.
i think it should come with a special belt and a pin, though.
and then you can go in for it, and the number of pins equates to how much of a fucking badass you are. so if you see, like, a dude, you look dude's belt
A dozen blue pins are attached to the sides of this belt.
Quote from: Refugee on April 01, 2016, 01:00:59 PM
Every new Borsail noble has posted on the rumor board that they're hiring gladiators. Different ideas have been tried. There's been pay, free apartments, good training, all kinds of things. It just doesn't happen. Now and then there's a bit of interest from one player or another, but it's impossible to make it happen.
Needs to be repeated for emphasis.
I had a pc as a part of the House roughly a year before the Wyverns closed, and some time after that. Every noble that came into the House tried, with vastly different methods to get something going, and it just fizzled. A lifetime in the Arena is a more certain death than something like joining the Byn. (It's potentially not, but the perception of the Arena is death, while the Byn is riding out and killing things.) And few people want 'certain death' as part of their PC, in my experience.
The few pcs found that were down for it? They couldn't be hired into the clan. So you throw them some coin, tell them to not die, and get some training under their belt. That initiation seems to be a command person spell for them to spend that coin on booze, run outside the walls naked, and headbutt the first mekillot they see. :(
I adore the idea of a gladiator item though, and think the idea of it alone would attract some people.
Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on April 01, 2016, 12:23:19 PM
Quote from: valeria on April 01, 2016, 12:13:04 PM
There is high level intrigue shit that goes on and actually affecting the game. ... there is a lot going on up there that you are simply unaware of.
These two statements seem directly in contradiction of one another to me. Intrigue isn't what I'd call highly "game affecting". By it's very nature it's secretive and non-inclusive. Sure, it might affect political structures (which 90% of PCs aren't part of), but I don't think it has a large day to day impact on the general population at all.
Quote from: valeria on April 01, 2016, 12:13:04 PM
Maybe it's not for you (and if your goal is to make Borsail/Tor into a combat clan when staff isn't ready for it yet, it's probably not). And that's fine. It takes all sorts in the game. But please don't disparage the work of other people when you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
That's fair, and I apologize that my tongue in cheek got a bit too bitter and barby.
I think from the commoner side, people seeing a lot of effects and don't necessarily draw lines to the causes. But when you were involved in the causes, you can see the effects and go "oh yeah, that thing I did with that noble totally affected X."
Anyway, I'm sorry I got a snappish as well. I was feeling a little insulted. All is forgiven :-*
Btw there has been more than one arena event a year. I've seen at least 15 in the last year.
If people are interested in playing Gladiators you absolutely have an opportunity and support. I don't want to share IC info, but there are people in powerful position who will support you (while trying to kill you for sport ...heh)
The problem is no one really wants to play Gladiators (unless its a temporary role that lets them go back to their old PC once they're dead). Just like no one really wants to slaves, despite people saying they're so cool on the GDB.
I think the Allanaki jail cells should just dump you straight in to the arena myself.
surprisingly(un), i do actually "want" to play a gladiator. i love the idea of it.
i will do it one day. you'll see.
Actually, pay off a Templar (or four) and I bet you can get plenty of people into the arena whether they want to play a gladiator or not.
Andddd you're a criminal ... and you're a criminal ... and you're a criminal..
No one said this had to be voluntary.
Quote from: evilcabbage on April 01, 2016, 02:51:23 PM
surprisingly(un), i do actually "want" to play a gladiator. i love the idea of it.
i will do it one day. you'll see.
I feel ya dude. I'd give it a go. I enjoy facing death and coming through by the skin of my teeth - nothing makes a character feel more interesting to me. Anybody can git gud in a sparring circle.
Quote from: Decameron on April 01, 2016, 02:54:09 PM
Actually, pay off a Templar (or four) and I bet you can get plenty of people into the arena whether they want to play a gladiator or not.
Andddd you're a criminal ... and you're a criminal ... and you're a criminal..
No one said this had to be voluntary.
Staff have pretty much said it's not really IC to harass/murder random commoners on a whim as a noble unless you're a Fale.
i've played a few spar guys, a few non-coms, and i have played dudes who got good -by- fighting the wildlife and risking their lives.
you know what makes me feel better when i look back at my characters?
the ones who survived with 3 hp, the ones who had 20 hp and fled, the ones who came inside the gates with bloodied gear and were near death, because i survived that shit.
even if i had to run.
how amazing it would be, to not HAVE that option, to have to fight something in the arena knowing that i will die if i don't use every skill and ability i have to guarantee a win.
Quote from: evilcabbage on April 01, 2016, 03:06:55 PM
i've played a few spar guys, a few non-coms, and i have played dudes who got good -by- fighting the wildlife and risking their lives.
you know what makes me feel better when i look back at my characters?
the ones who survived with 3 hp, the ones who had 20 hp and fled, the ones who came inside the gates with bloodied gear and were near death, because i survived that shit.
even if i had to run.
how amazing it would be, to not HAVE that option, to have to fight something in the arena knowing that i will die if i don't use every skill and ability i have to guarantee a win.
Except if you're playing a gladiator, you will die even if you -do- use every skill and ability you have. No one will guarantee you a win. You could spend a year training JUST to fight in the arena - that would be your reason for existing, your focus, even if you're not a dwarf. You would have no other reason to exist as a PC. And then you finally get to the arena for your first official match - and that entire year of doing little else but training is blown to smithereens when the OTHER guy kills you. It's sort of like Byn training - except, instead of being able to go on less-deadly contracts to start out with, you only get to go on one. And it is a contract that takes you over the shield wall. You'll either survive or you'll die. It's not an option, it's not a choice. It is an inevitable result.
Most players don't want that outcome, even if they're guaranteed the ability to temporarily store their current character and get it back after their gladiator dies. That's why you don't see gladiators on a regular basis in the game.
Most gladiator matches in "Ancient Times" were not to the death. They were more like a bloodier version of the WWE than, say, Mortal Kombat.
Quote from: Lizzie on April 01, 2016, 03:12:31 PM
Quote from: evilcabbage on April 01, 2016, 03:06:55 PM
i've played a few spar guys, a few non-coms, and i have played dudes who got good -by- fighting the wildlife and risking their lives.
you know what makes me feel better when i look back at my characters?
the ones who survived with 3 hp, the ones who had 20 hp and fled, the ones who came inside the gates with bloodied gear and were near death, because i survived that shit.
even if i had to run.
how amazing it would be, to not HAVE that option, to have to fight something in the arena knowing that i will die if i don't use every skill and ability i have to guarantee a win.
Except if you're playing a gladiator, you will die even if you -do- use every skill and ability you have. No one will guarantee you a win. You could spend a year training JUST to fight in the arena - that would be your reason for existing, your focus, even if you're not a dorf. You would have no other reason to exist as a PC. And then you finally get to the arena for your first official match - and that entire year of doing little else but training is blown to smithereens when the OTHER guy kills you. It's sort of like Byn training - except, instead of being able to go on less-deadly contracts to start out with, you only get to go on one. And it is a contract that takes you over the shield wall. You'll either survive or you'll die. It's not an option, it's not a choice. It is an inevitable result.
Most players don't want that outcome, even if they're guaranteed the ability to temporarily store their current character and get it back after their gladiator dies. That's why you don't see gladiators on a regular basis in the game.
i don't want your negativity in here telling me what i want.
i know what i want.
lizzie and cabbage for gladiators 2016.
Quote from: Delirium on April 01, 2016, 03:15:36 PM
Most gladiator matches in "Ancient Times" were not to the death. They were more like a bloodier version of the WWE than, say, Mortal Kombat.
This. Not to mention that the purpose of a spectacle like arena combat isn't to have the "bad guy" win. (Assuming PC vs NPC.) So for instance, if I'm a Borsail gladiator and they want to put me in a 1 vs 1 fight against a Braxat, they'll probably do a dry run to see if I even have any business stepping into the ring with something like that. Have the militia or Byn standing by to pull my ass out of the fire if things go wrong. The noble doesn't want to risk a high power warrior any more than the warrior wants to risk himself. A lot of time and training went into it.
I believe BadSkeels said that it's mostly the
perception that's so problematic, and I would agree with that.
Not all arena events are to the death. In fact few are. But the risk of death makes for an exciting time.
And it doesn't just have to be about dwarves with sdescs that over-sell their size hitting each other with bone axes. If other Houses were able to hire and sponsor gladiators in these events, you could give nobles something else to have their little political pissing contests over. "My gladiator can whoop your gladiator's ass.", "My gladiator is the highest ranked.", etc.
With the right kind of documentation and support, Allanak could have something akin to a sport to watch / bet on / etc. Personally, I've maybe seen... one gladiator event in the last 2-3 years? Chock it up to playtimes, I guess. But they're far-far-far-far-far less common than they used to be, and as a result they end up feeling of spastic, out of place, and awkward. "Oh... staff is doing this rolecall again? Cool... I guess we'll have one or two RPTs about this and it'll disappear for two more IRL years... Sweet."
Eh - I'd never play a Gladiator, this isn't my fight. I'm just saying that "it'll be fun when my character wins" is not a reasonable expectation to have, and that arena matches often end up with dead PCs as a result. Even the ones that the staff puts out role calls on the GDB about - result in dead characters. You have to be OKAY with the very distinct possibility that you will focus your roleplay on training to die in the arena, in order to make a successful Gladiator character in this particular game. And this is why you don't see players lining up to do it.
Once, when brainstorming ideas of how to make the arena more active with my roommate, I had the idea of a in-game yearly tournament between the noble houses. Each one swoles up a champion (or hires one from the byn (or orders an arm soldier)) to join, and either a big free-for-all or, better, a legit tournament with brackets goes through. The winner's patron house gets all dat honor, and the champion themselves get famous and rich. It doesn't even have to be to the death, it could just be to submission.
I think the risk of death is a necessary component of gladiator fights. If it were 100% safe, then it would be boring.
I think the trick is to balance the risk vs. the reward, and part of that is making it so that players can reasonably do the risk/reward determination about what they're getting into.
On the one hand, nobody wants to sign up for something where you could be killed capriciously, but on the other hand, players consistently take risks with their characters in this game. Every time you go out hunting, you could be killed, but players do it anyway because the risk is worth the reward. People join the Byn even though you might end up on a dangerous job. In fact, people join up BECAUSE it is a dangerous job. Danger is exciting. Once again, the risk is worth it.
There's got to be a balance to make gladiators work, too.
there is.
pull up your lettucy thong, tighten your leg warmers and stop being such a
Yes Dryab, also it requires that all contestants stay alive long enough to train appropriately prior to the match. It can't be much fun if you have 6 "groups" all sponsoring their own gladiator, and they train them and the first group loses theirs in the first RL week - the second loses theirs shortly after the first 3 RL weeks - the third one will be on vacation the week of the match and can't attend afterall, the fourth one's player stores out of boredom because the grind wasn't as much fun as he thought it'd be. After the first RL month, the second group manages to get a new gladiator but it's a new PC with all "novice" and "apprentice" skills. And now you have hyped up this big arena match with - three contestants, one of whom is guaranteed to lose because he only has 2 RL weeks of in-game training while the other two have been working on it for a couple of RL months.
Now I wonder how hard it'd be to get a gladiator thing going as an independent, and just let anyone sponsor in a few. Hm..
TLDR: Three pages of players proudly proclaiming they'll pass on playing Borsails. Well, shit!
Quote from: Lizzie on April 01, 2016, 04:13:52 PM
Yes Dryab, also it requires that all contestants stay alive long enough to train appropriately prior to the match. It can't be much fun if you have 6 "groups" all sponsoring their own gladiator, and they train them and the first group loses theirs in the first RL week - the second loses theirs shortly after the first 3 RL weeks - the third one will be on vacation the week of the match and can't attend afterall, the fourth one's player stores out of boredom because the grind wasn't as much fun as he thought it'd be. After the first RL month, the second group manages to get a new gladiator but it's a new PC with all "novice" and "apprentice" skills. And now you have hyped up this big arena match with - three contestants, one of whom is guaranteed to lose because he only has 2 RL weeks of in-game training while the other two have been working on it for a couple of RL months.
I have to say, I agree with everything you wrote!
... and I think my particular plan to Make Gladiators Great Again accommodates all of your concerns. ;)
(I am applying)
Quote from: Renenutet on April 01, 2016, 04:16:23 PM
TLDR: Three pages of players proudly proclaiming they'll pass on playing Borsails. Well, shit!
My "kill myself with a PC-supplied spice addiction" experiment will have to wait until I'm not enjoying my current PC. Sorry Renenutet :-\
Quote from: QuillDipper on April 01, 2016, 03:57:53 PM
Once, when brainstorming ideas of how to make the arena more active with my roommate, I had the idea of a in-game yearly tournament between the noble houses. Each one swoles up a champion (or hires one from the byn (or orders an arm soldier)) to join, and either a big free-for-all or, better, a legit tournament with brackets goes through. The winner's patron house gets all dat honor, and the champion themselves get famous and rich. It doesn't even have to be to the death, it could just be to submission.
I like this. Open it up to the northern (not Tuluki) PCs too. One thing I liked about Tuluk was that there was a little bit more tolerance (at least on the surface, and also historically) for including tribals, and to a lesser extent the Kurac in things -- even some elves, now and then. The current climate of Allanak would make such an event almost impossible, but not entirely impossible.
(Motivation here is in part my opinion, based on hunches and intuition, and likely wrong, that with the closing of Tuluk, northern PCs (delves, Kurac, tribals) have lost some of the diversity of interaction that they occasionally had with Tuluki PCs, be it hostile or positive. I'd like to see the two PC populations interact more.)
Tangent: I'd be curious if the gith stuff brought more interaction between northern PCs and southern PCs or less. On the one hand, you'd have southern PCs interested in getting their cred in killing gith, so wandering north to do just that -- on the other hand, the idea of gith between you and the north might turn off some PCs from travelling up north.
Quote from: Renenutet on April 01, 2016, 04:16:23 PM
TLDR: Three pages of players proudly proclaiming they'll pass on playing Borsails. Well, shit!
I'm game! Pick me, pick me! ;D
Quote from: BadSkeelz on April 01, 2016, 02:05:42 PM
I would personally do away with the school idea and just make Gladiators an "open mic night" type job. Run events frequently, allow drop-ins. Try and attract the brand-new PCs with nothing to lose by offering them coin and and a bit of rep to win.
This is what I've been lobbying for.
When a recent Borsail provided the pbase with creative and bloody games, even the Byn began to refuse to play for pay.
Just sayin', it's not as easy as you think it would be. They do try.
Some people don't want to trust their PCs to proven troll-nobles.
The only type of PC you'll get to volunteer regularly for the Arena are those with nothing to lose: super new or super old, looking for a way out.
Quote from: Drayab on April 01, 2016, 04:19:42 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on April 01, 2016, 04:13:52 PM
Yes Dryab, also it requires that all contestants stay alive long enough to train appropriately prior to the match. It can't be much fun if you have 6 "groups" all sponsoring their own gladiator, and they train them and the first group loses theirs in the first RL week - the second loses theirs shortly after the first 3 RL weeks - the third one will be on vacation the week of the match and can't attend afterall, the fourth one's player stores out of boredom because the grind wasn't as much fun as he thought it'd be. After the first RL month, the second group manages to get a new gladiator but it's a new PC with all "novice" and "apprentice" skills. And now you have hyped up this big arena match with - three contestants, one of whom is guaranteed to lose because he only has 2 RL weeks of in-game training while the other two have been working on it for a couple of RL months.
I have to say, I agree with everything you wrote!
... and I think my particular plan to Make Gladiators Great Again accommodates all of your concerns. ;)
(I am applying)
I hope you succeed! I'd love to see a solid Gladiator Games schedule of Arena events in Arm. Past history shows it's not "just a matter of" anything - it's complicated, and often results in lack of interested participants. It'd be great to see someone who can turn that around!
Your level-headed pragmatism will not dampen my untested optimism.
Go for ittttttttt.
Also, some of my funnest Arm experiences have been in the Arena. I do encourage people to try it out.
I think some of the people posting their ideas here should respond to the role call. Maybe they can be the one who figures out how to make it work!
I'm telling you, the only thing stopping the Arena from being big is the reward. Being a famous Gladiator should be absolutely awesome. It should be a way for commoners to stand much higher than their peers. A champion Gladiator should be the biggest bad ass in the city, and treated as such...
I'm telling you, my idea of changing their sdesc to gladiator will do it. People will treat them like the bad asses they are.
Quote from: Renenutet on April 01, 2016, 04:16:23 PM
TLDR: Three pages of players proudly proclaiming they'll pass on playing Borsails. Well, shit!
I would loooove to play another Borsail. Just not right now.
Probably too soon...otherwise I might.
Quote from: wizturbo on April 01, 2016, 05:12:57 PM
I'm telling you, the only thing stopping the Arena from being big is the reward. Being a famous Gladiator should be absolutely awesome. It should be a way for commoners to stand much higher than their peers. A champion Gladiator should be the biggest bad ass in the city, and treated as such...
I'm telling you, my idea of changing their sdesc to gladiator will do it. People will treat them like the bad asses they are.
Roman graffiti confirms for them to basically have football celebrity status in how women viewed them, at least. It's really funny to read some of those things.
Quote from: seidhr on April 01, 2016, 11:15:11 AM
People actually don't want to play gladiators because they put a lot of work into their PCs and don't want to lose them in an arena spectacle. Players are (understandably, I think) skittish about getting into the arena.
Ignored most of the thread because a Borsail without Stellvia might as well be Fale. Sorry.
One of the things that stands out about the Arena is that the things you fight in there are scaled different from the things you would fight normally. If I get comfortable fighting a couple braxat in the world and agree to fight a couple in the Arena for Borsail, I'm going to get my face ripped off. They're scaled much, much higher and I know at least one player who lost a warrior in there and swears up and down it was 'Staff' that got him as some kind of punishment.
I had a similar experience when my character, who could take on three or so X in the wild was being ripped to pieces by one Arena version of the same thing. It's something I've noticed across a few Arena adventures, so I'm reasonably confident it's a scaling thing, rather than a "let's 'roid up that jozhal for the lols" thing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, here.
Ignoring the PC-PC gladiator angle, I think a lot more people would show an interest in fighting critters in Arena RPTs if there was more consistency in critter scaling.
Also, the rewards thing. Come risk your 50 day warrior for an amazing thousand coins is... kind of a joke, really.
If staff built a Borsail gladiator training facility (or converted the useless wyvern compound into it), and then allowed Borsails to hire gladiators... You'd see shit happen. But Borsail having such small clan caps relative to Oash makes that an impossibility.
Quote from: wizturbo on April 01, 2016, 06:12:40 PM
If staff built a Borsail gladiator training facility (or converted the useless wyvern compound into it), and then allowed Borsails to hire gladiators... You'd see shit happen. But Borsail having such small clan caps relative to Oash makes that an impossibility.
I'm pretty convinced at this point in the thread that staff support is needed. Documentation confirming the social benefits + logistical support for recruitment and training.
Renenutet..
I would play a Borsail again, but not a highborn Borsail.
I have played Borsail Wyverns twice, one was a Sergeant and one was a Lieutenant.
The latter was also a 'retired' gladiator who lived until he was 90 or so years old.
Hiring gladiators as Borsail would, I think, be a better addition to Borsail than the Amber Wyverns, and make them more interesting and relevant in the social scene.
I struggled as a leader in Borsail to think of things for my Wyverns to do that wouldn't get them all killed. This is in part down to me being a bad clan lead, but also in part because capturing monsters for the Arena isn't really enough stuff for an entire military clan to stay occupied with. And as for capturing slaves, a team that consists only of mudane humans will struggle to find and capture muls.
Quote from: Delirium on April 01, 2016, 03:15:36 PM
Most gladiator matches in "Ancient Times" were not to the death. They were more like a bloodier version of the WWE than, say, Mortal Kombat.
I'm glad someone said it. I hope everyone can keep this sort of mindset in game. I guess some of you more bloodthirsty types might expect someone to always die or its boring?, but your probably more looking to see a combat show, with actors playing roles. Nobles don't want to pay 8000k+ on gladiator slaves and they die in their first fight, or even second fight. If there is a scaling issue with certain animals being more nasty in the arena than out in the wild, maybe that could be addressed by someone on staff? I've only been to a couple of games, but they have always been fun. Maybe those running the show need not jump to the big and nasties all the time, and save them for special occasions. Problem with that idea is do people only want to watch gladiators just fight multiple smaller critters and gith etc.? Fights with new gladiators should start small, and the show should get more nasty further into the season of the show, as the gladiator trains up.
I think you also have to give your 'professional' non slave gladiators some freedom for training. If you started a school or group, it won't be as big as say the Byn and a training partner might not always be around, so to avoid some boredom and help off peakers get them hunting critters in the wild for experience. Or Borsail could hire indy hunters/gmh hunting branches to capture wild beasts for the gladiator PC's to practice with and kill in a specific training room designed for such. Have the system work like the jails? Each 'cell' has a certain animal in it, and PC's can unlock and enter that room if a critter has been captured and put inside to fight it.
The rewards should be huge! Coins are great, but don't mean much when you don't have political clout to custom order whatever you want. If some Borsail PC's can get some custom work done, belts with pins, and all that jazz, special weapons and armour, you might draw in a few more interested. The champion gladiator cloak that is won from a big every couple year event is a great idea. I think a belt might be nicer if it could do the same thing with just a flag added to the item or it has to be actually modified to serve in such a way, just stick with a cloak.
Clan caps need to go or raise the limit to 5 at least? Tuluk closed. We consolidated so many other nobles and their aides and players. I hope this was actually so that clans in Allanak would see greater numbers then. Yet a cap is still imposed?
I've always wanted to play a pro gladiator, just the system doesn't seem really set up for it.
Proposed solution: people with two or more karma have a second character slot open for gladiators only, much like staff do on a temporary basis for gladiator role calls, but permanent.
Gladiator characters would normally have very limited interaction outside of arena events (and, possibly, training) and start with boosted skills so you don't have to go through the X-day grind before you're able to kill a gladiatorial gith 1 v. 1.
Said characters would generally be under the purview of House Borsail, who could sell them or otherwise interact with them as desired.
Of course no gladiator should behave as though he knows or interacts in any way with the first character's knowledge. This should be easy, however, since gladiator roles would be restricted in their exposure, and it should be rare, since this capability is restricted to players with 2 or more karma (or 3, or 5, or whatever you like).
If you want to do anything outside the normal role of gladiators with your gladiator character, contact staff on a case-by-case basis. One example would be an escape, where the gladiator character becomes a 'normal' character no longer restricted to the gladiatorial role. In this case, I'd propose that the player must notify and get the agreement of staff beforehand via request, with a detailed explanation of how/why/etc., and that either pre-emptively or at the very least at completion (viz. when the gladiator is free or dead), one of the two characters is stored, decided beforehand.
At the same time, anyone caught abusing the gladiator second-character system for anything beyond its intended purpose would have both characters force-stored and karma docked an appropriate amount depending on the nature of the offense.
Of course, those are just my suggestions of guidelines to go with my suggestions for gladiators. If staff decided to pick any of this up, I trust they'd come up with their own.
Quote from: wizturbo on April 01, 2016, 05:12:57 PM
I'm telling you, the only thing stopping the Arena from being big is the reward. Being a famous Gladiator should be absolutely awesome. It should be a way for commoners to stand much higher than their peers. A champion Gladiator should be the biggest bad ass in the city, and treated as such...
I'm telling you, my idea of changing their sdesc to gladiator will do it. People will treat them like the bad asses they are.
A long time ago, in a Ginka not so far away, Allanaki arena champions won great rewards - if I'm not mistaken, one won a copper helm, and another I believe a copper shield (or was it a spear?).
I agree with Wizturbo, if the rewards are there, the risks will be undertaken by willing participants.
Quote from: IntuitiveApathy on April 01, 2016, 08:04:37 PM
Quote from: wizturbo on April 01, 2016, 05:12:57 PM
I'm telling you, the only thing stopping the Arena from being big is the reward. Being a famous Gladiator should be absolutely awesome. It should be a way for commoners to stand much higher than their peers. A champion Gladiator should be the biggest bad ass in the city, and treated as such...
I'm telling you, my idea of changing their sdesc to gladiator will do it. People will treat them like the bad asses they are.
A long time ago, in a Ginka not so far away, Allanaki arena champions won great rewards - if I'm not mistaken, one won a copper helm, and another I believe a copper shield (or was it a spear?).
I agree with Wizturbo, if the rewards are there, the risks will be undertaken by willing participants.
So, you are saying if you give it up, they will come?
Those who won these prizes werent gladiators though. They were fighters of AoD, Byn, Tor, and other battle clans that chose to participate in some grandeur competition. They were badasses, but they didnt earn their living in the arena.
PS: I havent actually played for the last 3 months. So I dont know what happened then. But prior to that, I actually enjoyed the Borsail Nobility and the schemes/plans/initiatives they were doing.
You know, the more I think about it, the better an idea this seems. You could have overly dramatic posturing in public spaces and such about just how hard someone is going DOWN, threats/bribes for people to throw fights, people smuggling in spice or ungemmed magickers to give their fighers an unfair advantage.. The only problem is that eventually you'd get something of a 'hierarchy' in gladiators where some are obviously better than others, but even then you could keep the spectacle a thing by making things challenging simply by adding/substracting gear and such.
Wrestlemania?
Quote from: Rathustra on April 01, 2016, 09:36:02 AM
Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on April 01, 2016, 08:57:58 AM
If I wasn't totally into my role right now, I would probably actually put in my first rolecall app ever... But I am totally into my role right now, so take some initiative Jesse!
(http://i.imgur.com/TGkIqlI.gif)
Heh. Sorry that I'm playing something higher on my bucket list than N00ble? But nah, I would've never apped it. Seemed like a good idea this morning, but I would get bored and store within a month, if I made it that long.
As far as the fights, yeah I think straight up combat all day would get boring, and net the same results again and again. So, mixing them up would make for a great show. Random or odd weapon matches. Fights where maybe some random gith were thrown around to distract them. (Think the chained tigers in Gladiator). Or even something as ridiculous as a greased up jozhal hunt.
Also, team matches.
Lopsided fights tend to be more amongst opponents < 10 days played. After that, even against a superior opponent, warriors can usually hold your own long enough for it not to be a straight up slaughter.
Quote from: Dar on April 01, 2016, 08:12:00 PM
Those who won these prizes werent gladiators though. They were fighters of AoD, Byn, Tor, and other battle clans that chose to participate in some grandeur competition. They were badasses, but they didnt earn their living in the arena.
True, but it's not a terrible comparison - they stood to die in the Arena in those competitions, and could have and did lose their X days played characters (who had lives outside the Arena, to boot). But they volunteered, knowing the fights were to the death. Why? I can only assume for the rewards.
And also because, much like your grand-pappy, back in those days the men were men and so were the women!
And because look how fucking cool they are!
Quote from: IntuitiveApathy on April 01, 2016, 09:51:31 PM
Quote from: Dar on April 01, 2016, 08:12:00 PM
Those who won these prizes werent gladiators though. They were fighters of AoD, Byn, Tor, and other battle clans that chose to participate in some grandeur competition. They were badasses, but they didnt earn their living in the arena.
True, but it's not a terrible comparison - they stood to die in the Arena in those competitions, and could have and did lose their X days played characters (who had lives outside the Arena, to boot). But they volunteered, knowing the fights were to the death. Why? I can only assume for the rewards.
Sure.Yeah. These were also once in a decade arena. Not a concept to create a noble character around.
Having played a noble in Borsail, I'll reiterate what some other players in this thread have said:
Every Borsail noble tries doing this when they first app in.
The Borsail before me tried this. The Borsail before that Borsail tried doing this. The Borsail that replaced my Borsail tried doing this. The Borsail that will replace that Borsail will probably try doing this. Nobody bites on playing a gladiator or if they do, they get themselves killed within 2 RL days of trying to gladiator. (Not in the Arena, either.)
Ain't even discouraged. Nope. My optimism is unassailable.
Quote from: wizturbo on April 01, 2016, 06:12:40 PM
If staff built a Borsail gladiator training facility (or converted the useless wyvern compound into it), and then allowed Borsails to hire gladiators... You'd see shit happen. But Borsail having such small clan caps relative to Oash makes that an impossibility.
I think the obvious workaround on this is to have the gladiators do their training vs each other on the arena floor, getting everyone wh ants to come watch for free used to seeing nonlethal arena combat, exposing the gladiators to more RP opportunities. Perhaps you could even buy a chit or something that would allow you to train on the arena floor against them for a session and on leaving the chit could be taken again or the like, as a way to raise even more $$$ off of the gladiators, if you want to use the greed angle on the part of the nobles, and the pride angle (being able to even train in front of a possible crowd) on the gladiators. That said, I don't really play anymore, but I am Jack's Opinion is right about how much more common arena games used to be, though they were tapering off even before I quit really playing.
I support the optimism. Maybe all future borsails can view this thread and use it to make gladiators or arena based things a more attractive option.
If nothing else, this thread has sparked some pre-emptive awareness.
Hear that folks who want to play gladiators? Someone's will be hiring in 2-3 weeks. Roll up a Bynner now! Git grinding. Git gud. Git commit! Git push!
I think it would be hard for a Borsail noble PC to fix the gladiator problem. But there are some things they could do.
First, incentives. I like that gladiator cloak idea, but I'm not sure about the sdesc. Here's what I would do:
Step One: Get people to "sign up" as gladiators. You don't even have to fight yet, just agree to be one and you get a cool (Borsail-branded) weapon.
Step Two: Organize a fight. Call on some of those people who took your free weapon to be in it. If they chicken out, you take the weapon back, maybe get the AoD to make them fight anyway. If they fight (not to the death), they get the cloak. This makes them a "gladiator". [Massive bonus points here if you can get the staff to clan them to the Gaj. Want them to be ICly popular? Gladiators drink for free in the Gaj. And they can give drinks to friends. Seems realistic if the tavern was built around serving those attending the games. They'd want the champions to hang around, like celebrities.]
Step Three: More fights. Champions get named. Maybe all repeat participants start to get other cool stuff. Gladiator leathers. Gladiator plate. Awesome, high quality stuff; a piece or two at a time. For this, (and because it means some clan perks while still being your own person) people will fight. Have big tournaments with insane (10k) purses.
None of this is to say it's simple, or that this isn't somewhat similar to things people have tried previously, but I think it would work. It would either require staff participation, or using up a lot of contractors' mastercrafts, but it could be done. You'd also need to get a solid base of gladiators, but once you did, and could start running regular games, you'd get a following (and fresh recruits).
I mean. 90% of all clan ideas in Arm are something along the lines of 'this'd work if I had three other dudes to do this as well.' This seems kiiiiiinda similar in that regard.
I absolutely think we could have gladiator PCs with staff support and motivated leadership. But the staff support problem is real. My point is, if this is the entire thing your concept is based around, you need to put that in your role application (and maybe offer to help with the workload by writing up the items, give them your fleshed out ideas, etc) and make it clear that you will need that support as you're apping the role. And then be extremely, extremely patient. Because just rolling into the game thinking that you can get places and items built and things off the ground right away is going to lead to frustration and tears.
I was the Borsail noble in charge of the Wyverns when they were closed on me, very much under protest.
I had a lot of things I was doing with the Wyverns, including regular arena games in which they performed as gladiators. I won't dredge up all the details, but reopen the Wyverns and future Borsail nobles will find the whole gladiator thing a lot easier to do since they can shape the clan that way if they want to.
I think that'd be great. And let the crewmaster have the keys to the Arena so he can train gladiators instead of hunters.
Quote from: LauraMars on April 02, 2016, 12:19:24 AM
I was the Borsail noble in charge of the Wyverns when they were closed on me, very much under protest.
I had a lot of things I was doing with the Wyverns, including regular arena games in which they performed as gladiators. I won't dredge up all the details, but reopen the Wyverns and future Borsail nobles will find the whole gladiator thing a lot easier to do since they can shape the clan that way if they want to.
I +1 this with my obligatory 'moar clans' repetition.
+2