So this is one that has been a big pet peeve of mine for a while. You should be able to know when your active Listen and Scans timer run down besides just seeing the release of stun. For realism concepts I believe you would know... If you are actively listening or scanning wouldn't you know if you stop doing it? If I'm trying to overhear someone at a table for instance I'm going to be straining and concentrating on that person if I stop I'll know I've stopped.
Perhaps echos of:
You are no longer actively scanning the area
You feel like you are less perceptive
You are no longer straining to hear things
Or others.... Ideas, thoughts? Discuss please.
I was reading about this in the archives a while ago. Basically, if you want your character to freshen his/her attention on a task, just toggle it off and on again (a staff member, Morgenes, suggested this). I feel it's realistic for a character to lose his/her concentration on a task every now and then.
I dig this.
Quote from: CodeMaster on May 05, 2014, 10:44:25 AM
I was reading about this in the archives a while ago. Basically, if you want your character to freshen his/her attention on a task, just toggle it off and on again (a staff member, Morgenes, suggested this). I feel it's realistic for a character to lose his/her concentration on a task every now and then.
I agree with this, but if you lose your concentration you're going to KNOW it. Have you ever lost your concentration while doing a task and not known it? I haven't.
Quote from: slvrmoontiger on May 05, 2014, 10:46:32 AM
Quote from: CodeMaster on May 05, 2014, 10:44:25 AM
I was reading about this in the archives a while ago. Basically, if you want your character to freshen his/her attention on a task, just toggle it off and on again (a staff member, Morgenes, suggested this). I feel it's realistic for a character to lose his/her concentration on a task every now and then.
I agree with this, but if you lose your concentration you're going to KNOW it. Have you ever lost your concentration while doing a task and not known it? I haven't.
Well, it depends on the task, but most of the time you -do- know it. When you see 'speaks' but you don't get the dialogue back.
But sometimes you start a task and something catches your attention enough that the first one fades away. It's not unreasonable that sometimes you just kind of zone out before you shake yourself out of it.
EDIT: Like, I'm having some trouble explaining this well, but don't you ever do something for so long it becomes monotonous? Maybe you ARE scanning each face in the crowd, but sooner or later you're going to just gloss over ones you recognize before you have to remind yourself to put your best foot forward. The same goes for listening, you might be hearing everything before it all just sounds like babble.
Quote from: slvrmoontiger on May 05, 2014, 10:46:32 AM
I agree with this, but if you lose your concentration you're going to KNOW it. Have you ever lost your concentration while doing a task and not known it? I haven't.
I hope these are some reasonable counterexamples:
Sometimes when I'm reading a book I find I've "read" a paragraph (sometimes even a page) without really digesting it. When I realize this - and it's not instantaneous - I have to go back. Maybe I'm alone on that one, so here's a more extreme example.
A lot of road accidents happen because people assume they're being attentive but they're really not. There's nothing intrinsic telling the trucker that he is going to fall asleep in the next five minutes unless he snaps out of it.
So I see two scenarios. You're listening to someone at a table and suddenly you find that you can't hear them anymore.
think Damn, what was that?
listen on
Or maybe you're listening to someone at a table and suddenly you realize that you've missed the last ten or twelve things that were said. Guess what? Your character's attention wandered. Or maybe it just got really loud nearby for a moment and you lost the thread of the conversation you were listening in on.
But you already know when your scan and listen have timed out....
If you pay attention.
IN that line of thinking, listen/scan should also drop when use most coded skills, especially combat and crafting which require great amounts of concentration.
Quote from: ShaLeah on May 05, 2014, 12:52:31 PM
But you already know when your scan and listen have timed out....
If you pay attention.
But that is only through stun, like the OP said.
em closes ^me eyes, taking some reprieve from the bright reflection of the sun bounding off the dunes and into ^me constantly moving eyes.
scan
You stop scanning.
scan
You scan the area intently.
There are lots of ways to excuse it running out and having to refresh it now and then, because you aren't superhuman and your eyes aren't open wide all t he time, peering at each face.
Quote from: Barsook on May 05, 2014, 12:55:43 PM
Quote from: ShaLeah on May 05, 2014, 12:52:31 PM
But you already know when your scan and listen have timed out....
If you pay attention.
But that is only through stun, like the OP said.
That's my point. We should be paying attention to notice we're not catching as many conversations or watching the surroundings as effectively.
Listen and scan aren't magickal spells. You're not going to NOT notice you're suddenly not glowing and shit.
Those two should stay the same.
So from what everyone is saying you shouldn't get a warning when your barrier timer runs down. You shouldn't get a warning message when your contact with someone that you aren't actively communicating with runs down.
And you don't ALWAYS know when Listen and Scan run down either... Say you're Waying someone or you have Barrier up. You don't know because these automatically reduce your stun by the max amount possible for reduction and the amount reduced doesn't change regardless of if you stop scanning or not.
If you're saying that "Oh, you lose concentration on what you are doing and just don't realize it." I say "Great, should be like that for Barrier and Contact." Where's the difference?
This could be added as another Argument for the prompt - scan & listen
Also agree, that anything that breaks watch or psi should bust listen/scan.
Quote from: whitt on May 05, 2014, 02:05:35 PM
This could be added as another Argument for the prompt - scan & listen
Also agree, that anything that breaks watch or psi should bust listen/scan.
+1
Quote from: slvrmoontiger on May 05, 2014, 02:04:13 PM
So from what everyone is saying you shouldn't get a warning when your barrier timer runs down.
Seeing as how everyone has been equating scanning and listening to real-life stuff like "paying attention" and "paying attention to conversations," I'm curious about the psychic credentials you're bringing to the table here.
Quote from: Nyr on May 05, 2014, 02:25:37 PM
Quote from: slvrmoontiger on May 05, 2014, 02:04:13 PM
So from what everyone is saying you shouldn't get a warning when your barrier timer runs down.
Seeing as how everyone has been equating scanning and listening to real-life stuff like "paying attention" and "paying attention to conversations," I'm curious about the psychic credentials you're bringing to the table here.
I'm just confused as to why you would get an echo for the psi stuff but not for scan/listen. In my book it really doesn't make sense why you would have them for one, but not the other. Any explanation you could provide so I'm not as confused would be helpful, Nyr.
Psionic barriers/contact is a concerted, stressful effort that has the potential to knock you unconscious due to how much effort is required to maintain it.
Side-eyeing pickpockets and being really nosy while sitting in the tavern is hardly an equivalent. God's sake, just set up a timer if you want to be scanning/listening all the time and don't get grumpy when I ask you why you're looking so spooked every time you scan while sitting in the bar.
You already get notice; it's in your command prompt and it's called stun. When your stun points are higher than they were a moment ago, it means one of your skills has worn off.
Typing "scan ON" and "listen ON" will toggle whichever one is off, on, and will return a "it's already running, you doofus" echo if it hasn't worn off yet.
You never have to type "scan" or "listen" by themselves, which just results in frustration if you end up turning them off when you just wanted to find out whether or not they were running.
Quote from: MeTekillot on May 05, 2014, 03:23:26 PM
Side-eyeing pickpockets and being really nosy while sitting in the tavern is hardly an equivalent. God's sake, just set up a timer if you want to be scanning/listening all the time and don't get grumpy when I ask you why you're looking so spooked every time you scan while sitting in the bar.
Unless they are in a higher-class establishment, in Zalanthas, always being alert and looking for danger in the taverns makes perfect IC sense.
You roleplaying they are looking "spooked" when they don't emote that is arguably much worse RP. Perhaps they are just subtly keeping a sharp eye out. Maybe they are hemoting that they as shifting in their chair a bit to put their back towards a wall instead of to the room at large. You don't know how they are roleplaying their increased level of alertness, and you "power-forcing" it for them, is very bad form. (Unless they are openly roleplaying being spooked, then more power to you and I apologize.)
The taverns of Zalanthas, with the exception of some of the very high-class establishments, are rampant with random brawls, thievery, and in general, hazards to your health. Most of them have echoes reflecting exactly that.
It would take someone very confident or very stupid to not be on high alert in those places.
Quote from: slvrmoontiger on May 05, 2014, 03:16:51 PM
Quote from: Nyr on May 05, 2014, 02:25:37 PM
Quote from: slvrmoontiger on May 05, 2014, 02:04:13 PM
So from what everyone is saying you shouldn't get a warning when your barrier timer runs down.
Seeing as how everyone has been equating scanning and listening to real-life stuff like "paying attention" and "paying attention to conversations," I'm curious about the psychic credentials you're bringing to the table here.
I'm just confused as to why you would get an echo for the psi stuff but not for scan/listen. In my book it really doesn't make sense why you would have them for one, but not the other. Any explanation you could provide so I'm not as confused would be helpful, Nyr.
Because it's coded that way and we feel that makes sense. Judging by many of the other responses here, it makes sense to other people as well. You get an echo for the psi stuff because it isn't the same as listening and scanning.
Quote from: Nyr on May 05, 2014, 04:50:23 PM
Quote from: slvrmoontiger on May 05, 2014, 03:16:51 PM
Quote from: Nyr on May 05, 2014, 02:25:37 PM
Quote from: slvrmoontiger on May 05, 2014, 02:04:13 PM
So from what everyone is saying you shouldn't get a warning when your barrier timer runs down.
Seeing as how everyone has been equating scanning and listening to real-life stuff like "paying attention" and "paying attention to conversations," I'm curious about the psychic credentials you're bringing to the table here.
I'm just confused as to why you would get an echo for the psi stuff but not for scan/listen. In my book it really doesn't make sense why you would have them for one, but not the other. Any explanation you could provide so I'm not as confused would be helpful, Nyr.
Because it's coded that way and we feel that makes sense. Judging by many of the other responses here, it makes sense to other people as well. You get an echo for the psi stuff because it isn't the same as listening and scanning.
I understand its not exactly the same thing. My first post mentioned nothing about psi anyways. My original post was suggesting that this would improve things and be more realistic. I don't see how that post was wrong or could be criticized.
I think a message for the end of scan and listening timers would be nice, but I don't see it as important either way. I don't think it can be argued against in a way that makes sense, but I can see it being argued for with merit.
Quote from: ShaLeah on May 05, 2014, 01:03:41 PM
Quote from: Barsook on May 05, 2014, 12:55:43 PM
Quote from: ShaLeah on May 05, 2014, 12:52:31 PM
But you already know when your scan and listen have timed out....
If you pay attention.
But that is only through stun, like the OP said.
That's my point. We should be paying attention to notice we're not catching as many conversations or watching the surroundings as effectively.
Listen and scan aren't magickal spells. You're not going to NOT notice you're suddenly not glowing and shit.
Those two should stay the same.
I'd be inclined to agree with this. I think it's kinda cheesy when people claim their characters are paying more attention to what's going on than they are, and really for veteran players at least, that's pretty much what this is.
And as for all the people claiming that everyone should know exactly when they've stopped paying attention?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_hypnosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_hypnosis)
That's not how the brain works.
I just made a prompt trigger which tracks all the values. I'm a pro roleplayer like that.
Quote from: Narf on May 05, 2014, 08:46:16 PM
Quote from: ShaLeah on May 05, 2014, 01:03:41 PM
Quote from: Barsook on May 05, 2014, 12:55:43 PM
Quote from: ShaLeah on May 05, 2014, 12:52:31 PM
But you already know when your scan and listen have timed out....
If you pay attention.
But that is only through stun, like the OP said.
That's my point. We should be paying attention to notice we're not catching as many conversations or watching the surroundings as effectively.
Listen and scan aren't magickal spells. You're not going to NOT notice you're suddenly not glowing and shit.
Those two should stay the same.
I'd be inclined to agree with this. I think it's kinda cheesy when people claim their characters are paying more attention to what's going on than they are, and really for veteran players at least, that's pretty much what this is.
And as for all the people claiming that everyone should know exactly when they've stopped paying attention?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_hypnosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_hypnosis)
That's not how the brain works.
Could be your skill level that's causing you not to overhear conversation... And there isn't something hidden everywhere you go. So beyond stun how are you going to know?
scan stat
listen stat
:)
Quote from: shadeoux on May 06, 2014, 12:36:26 AM
scan stat
listen stat
:)
You really don't need to do that. If you are -trying- to listen and/or scan...just type listen on, scan on. If you're not listening/scanning, it'll turn it on. If you are listening/scanning, it'll stay on, and let you know that it was already on. One command solves all problems.
Quote from: slvrmoontiger on May 05, 2014, 05:23:22 PMMy original post was suggesting that this would improve things and be more realistic. I don't see how that post was wrong or could be criticized.
Improve things if you want to have your scan and listen up 100% of the time rather than 98-99% of the time as some do.
Make things more realistic, not really. It's an OOC thing you're asking for. You want it in your prompt or you want it to outright tell you without you (the player) having to pay attention to it. I don't really see a good IC reason or realism reason or even an immersion reason behind wanting it the way you want it. You may as well approach it from a goal of wanting it turned on all of the time, because with a visible notification, the skills both then require nothing on the part of the player beyond setting up a trigger to turn it back on.
Quote from: Nyr on May 06, 2014, 08:35:06 AM
You may as well approach it from a goal of wanting it turned on all of the time
Is a good point, if it was meant to be on all the time, it probably would be.