Armageddon General Discussion Board

Just putting a toe into the water.

I said, "Sometimes things happen, if you wait for them".  Maybe because I'm a off-peaker or it's the role/PC that I have.

Reasonably active, if you put yourself out there. I also contend that's the way things have been for years. If you don't make yourself available for plots (whether by joining a clan or group, leading things, etc) you'll never see them.

Quote from: Cutthroat on March 03, 2011, 12:34:05 PM
Reasonably active, if you put yourself out there. I also contend that's the way things have been for years. If you don't make yourself available for plots (whether by joining a clan or group, leading things, etc) you'll never see them.

That's...

Kind of a strange poll? Personally, I often play at off-peak times and might go an hour or two without seeing another PC. I still find plenty to do IG despite that. Perhaps my somewhat newbish fascination with the game and world is to blame. Perhaps that envisaging a small band of traders as just a few tiny little specks crossing a vast, dusty plain is pretty cool. Or a ranger settling down into some shaded nook. A well-dressed merchant heading to a bar in some hoity-toity pub and striking up a deal. A dude with bone swords setting upon a small group of gith all on his lonesome, and the ensuing display of badassery/premature death and that little band of gith doing their thing. Whatever. Hopefully you can see what I'm getting at there.

I guess I've seen hints of 'plots'? I don't know. I log in rather regularly regardless. Sure, I wasn't so fond of the clanned PC I had due to playtimes and whatnot, but there's absolutely nothing compelling me to place my PCs in clans (and there are plenty where playtimes are less of an issue, too).

Reasonably active indeed.

I find that at times there is more going on in game than I want to oocly handle, other times the lulls hit and I think, uggg.

But there are many perspectives on plots, types of plots. Some may think that if there is no action to it then its really not much of a plot. Which in someways can make it seem like there is not really much going on. But I for one know that the game world is alive, and if your in a clan and think nothing is going on, perhaps its because you are not privy to all information and it has to be that way.

Somethings the clan needs to build its strength before advancing into further plots.

As an individual or solo/ indie, perhaps you do not see the plots around you because your out side most circles, or perhaps you do not care much to get involved and expect or think plot means by definition another raining mountain of fire. This is not so, nor are hordes of warring gith that decend on luirs during concubine trade week.

Some times a plots main source is simply being available to receive goods that furthers the staff/virtual side of a region altering plot.
Not glamorous, but it does allow for an opportunity to be one many sides of that plot, if one makes themselves aware of it and gets involved.

From such, one plot participation can thus lead to another, though not always immediately, so at least try to keep an active character alive long enough that they are able to be called upon, perhaps more plots will open up for those that seem to be missing them.

Then there is this side, go out and make a plot, instill in others and the game what you want, be it the plot to build up trade relations and a name in that manner or be that warring, raiding group.

As for myself I am a very active peek and off peek player, with a catheter and iv to allow me this pleasure.. (kidding a little). I like to switch around in them, but I can some times put 12 or more hours in, in a day. 

I've never really had a problem with plots, except that one time I was playing an indie for a relatively long period, and that other time I was practically isolated for an entire month and spent most of my character's time doing solo RP with a pillow.  Usually I play in clans, and I haven't noticed any absence of plots to become involved in while playing in clans.  Sometimes while reading the board lately, I can't help but feel that what I think of when I think "plots" and what other people think of when they think "plots" are entirely different things though.  I wasn't really around for any of the big staff-done stuff of by-gone ages, so I don't really have the "oh it was so cooler back in 200#" mentality that some people seem to have.  And then, sometimes I wonder if it really was cooler, or if that's just the nostalgia talking, taking away the boring bits and glossing over whatever gripes they had at that time, in favor of the fun stuff they can remember.

In general action, I think there's plenty. That could be as varied as what an indie hunter would be doing, to way up with politics between templars/nobles/merchants.

Bigger game-spanning plots, and action in the sense of battles, scrimmages between different forces, magick flying here and there, and the stuff that gets your adrenaline pumping? Now and then. I think that's good, but sometimes the waits between last TOO long...  or the action that IS happening is happening in a different part of the Known, and so your char only sees a glimpse (or hear rumors) of it.

Quote from: Cutthroat on March 03, 2011, 12:34:05 PM
Reasonably active, if you put yourself out there. I also contend that's the way things have been for years. If you don't make yourself available for plots (whether by joining a clan or group, leading things, etc) you'll never see them.

Yep, I put the same thing, for the same reason.

These days it seems like option #1, but with no serious amount of RL time to spend on the game, I can't get a good perspective.  Of course, I voted anyway, that's democracy, right?!  ;D

QuoteReasonably active, if you put yourself out there.
Sometimes things happen, if you wait for them.

These two sound like double-barreled questions.
The first part seems to ask what your Arm experience is in terms of action, but the second part is asking how you perceive the action is happening around you when you are either sitting back and waiting for them or actively pursuing them, and only provide one choice for either of those (either you go out and pursue them = reasonably active experience OR you are the person who sits back = sometimes get involved with action)

I voted the second option, but being an off-peaker, everything happens when I am at work. It makes me really, really frustrated.

If there was lots and lots of action, every day, but most of it was low-quality action, or negative-quality action, or neutral-quality action, would it matter all that much, that there is a lot of it?

I put reasonably active.

The reason I say this is my luck has often been when I make throw away characters(well, almost) with concepts that I expect them to die quickly or be killed by something or someone ect, seem to find their way into awesome storylines.

The reason I say this is because those are my less conservative characters.  The ones that just GO for it.  I don't worry about them living a long time because I think the concept is so awesome I just cant face a death of this character.

I think getting out there and playing and just GOING FOR IT is the way to find yourself woven into different plots, and yes, you might die... but it'll be a glorious ride.

Kind of what AreteX said.

My throw-away characters that were conceived in about 5 minutes before chargen are the ones that get involved in things.

Sometimes I have trouble getting involved in things, but taking risks with your character definitely helps.

My PC often has a lot to do, even when their clan is thin. Things are going well.

I never have trouble finding a plot, though the pc's I make tend to be the plot producing type be it a creative string of dwarf focuses or the elven mentality. Elven mentality is so fucking awesome in the sense that trust trials alone are your personal miniplots. Waiting around for someone else to toss a plot in your lap, you're going to be bored.

Personally I approve that staff haven taken a more hands off approach as far as plot-weaving goes. For players like myself that like to make shit happen I think it opened a lot of doors for plot production. Back in the day when staff handed out 'quests' like candy I found myself feeling like I was getting ushered into turning my pc into what they wanted to see rather than what I wanted to see. If my pc turned down or ignored the quest given by staff I felt like I was being an asshole even if it was ic for my pc to do so.

Almost everyone that's posted in this thread has a positive view of things. I'm pretty curious about the other side, if anyone that voted for the last two options wishes to expound their opinion.

I didn't vote. I'm sure there are tons and tons of stuff going on, but I'm not in a position to really know at the moment. So, *I* am not seeing much action. But I'm confident there's plenty of it, and I'm pretty sure most people don't need to "look for it." There's always something going on and if you really can't find anything, you can always make shit up :)

I voted the worst one. Mostly because it is my perception that things do change but only when the staff feels like building or burning down a tavern. I don't see the players who actually change anything or get involved in any super cool plots. I still feel like the staff will ignore/brush aside whatever you are doing if you are not their buddy or in their clan. Or if you do get any interaction it is 'WE HAVE COME TO KILL YOU NOW.'. It is probably mostly my own fault for setting my day to day goals for only things I can do without any upward help.

Quote from: KankWhisperer on March 04, 2011, 07:39:22 PM
I voted the worst one. Mostly because it is my perception that things do change but only when the staff feels like building or burning down a tavern. I don't see the players who actually change anything or get involved in any super cool plots. I still feel like the staff will ignore/brush aside whatever you are doing if you are not their buddy or in their clan. Or if you do get any interaction it is 'WE HAVE COME TO KILL YOU NOW.'. It is probably mostly my own fault for setting my day to day goals for only things I can do without any upward help.

Those are, coincidentally, both examples of I'm fairly sure are player-driven plots.

Maybe so. But to me they just seem like staff plots because I didn't see anything but the end game.  I put myself out there as a tool for people to use but I never really am 'invited' to participate in anything hush hush I guess.

People are starving. Someone burnt down something. I think I am more entertained by the rumor boards than my character's life.

Quote from: HavokBlue on March 04, 2011, 07:41:16 PM

Quote from: KankWhisperer on March 04, 2011, 07:39:22 PM
I voted the worst one. Mostly because it is my perception that things do change but only when the staff feels like building or burning down a tavern. I don't see the players who actually change anything or get involved in any super cool plots. I still feel like the staff will ignore/brush aside whatever you are doing if you are not their buddy or in their clan. Or if you do get any interaction it is 'WE HAVE COME TO KILL YOU NOW.'. It is probably mostly my own fault for setting my day to day goals for only things I can do without any upward help.

Those are, coincidentally, both examples of I'm fairly sure are player-driven plots.

In my time I have seen pc's build 2 tavarns, and suspect one of a burning.

I've also been in on MANY MANY small plots... Most of them are to IC to speak of atm and arent common cannon knowledge.

I imagine though, this isn't a complaint about lack of plots in the main clans right? Cause, for the most part, most plots are driven by say Noble PC's played by players.  There are lesser plots out there, but you got to find them. And these pc's that are doing them are generally happy to include you somehow, if it's possible.

Bottom line:
There are several decently exciting things going on right now, this second in the game. But if you aren't making yourself available, you wont see them.

Define: Making yourself available?

Quote from: KankWhisperer on March 04, 2011, 07:54:06 PM
Define: Making yourself available?

Find an interesting person, who might be doing interesting things, get friendly, earn trust.

I, mr.SkullandDagger am not going to just invite my buddy I just made nice with to do my Hush Hush stuff with. That's a good way to get outed as Mr.SkullandDagger.

But if you earn my trust and show interest, hey, I bet it'll happen.

KW: Sometimes shit like that happens. You've got a few options available to you, however. I find the best way to go, if you want to continue on with your current PC, is to begin "making your own fun". Start defining some very basic goals and gradually turn them into crazier and crazier goals as there is less and less to do or people to interact with. Eventually, you'll either get killed or start having a lot of fun.

Basically--change your character concept a bit to allow more independent jollies.

Getting killed is a sweet sweet dream. But someone or something is going to have to earn it.

I feel like it is the same as it has always been.
If I sit there and expect things to happen to me, the RP will be infrequent.
If I sit there and encourage things to happen to me, the RP will be more frequent.

A lot less flowery emoters these days, for sure.

Quote from: Sam on March 05, 2011, 04:54:49 PM
A lot less flowery emoters these days, for sure.

I mostly consider this a good thing.

I don't consider it a good thing.

I also see people being more creative in their emotes in Tuluk and they get less flowery as you move south. (Shameless Tuluki product placement)

Creative's more important than flowery. ;)

I'm not sure I even remember what a "plot" is, but that's what happens when you can't play 2-3 hours or more a night. Arm's always been that way, and there aren't really any viable solutions to the casual player problem. I could post a litany of complaints about how I think the hands-off staffing policy has driven even more nails into the coffins of offpeak and casual players, but there's no real point.

I have a feeling that the people who are voting for the negative options are frustrated because in the age where players have to generate everything, it can be difficult to do when your personal situation, IC or OOC, is not conducive to lengthy planning sessions with other PCs.

Quote from: Fathi on March 05, 2011, 05:44:23 PM
I have a feeling that the people who are voting for the negative options are frustrated because in the age where players have to generate everything, it can be difficult to do when your personal situation, IC or OOC, is not conducive to lengthy planning sessions with other PCs.

There were a lot of times as a leader that I wished the staff would have had a bit more involvement and moved things forward without me, yeah.

Hear ye, hear ye. Players who can play 3-4 hours a day are not always the best leaders. I'm an equal opportunity player, and support the shit out of awesome leaders who only play 1h or less a night.

Action action action!

This is a pole on action or plots?

I've never needed the staff for plots I instigated as a leader. They were helpful, yes. But there are many ways to do many interesting things without the need for staff at all.

Arena events, massive parties, fashion shows, auctions, mass hunts, expeditions, etc call all be done without any staff involvement and are awesome.

Quote from: Sam on March 05, 2011, 05:27:51 PM
I don't consider it a good thing.

I also see people being more creative in their emotes in Tuluk and they get less flowery as you move south. (Shameless Tuluki product placement)

Huh...

The one MAJOR difference that I see now that imms don't push plots is if two leaders play different times, there is no great plot they can be involved in unless there is a middle man. With my last leader, I can only assume I played odd hours, because I never saw another leader PC that I was trying to find.

I think there are many plots and certainly easy to get PCs sucked in (I think both the staff and the majority of players really feel strongly about opening up story lines to everyone) -- which is great and a real plus for the game.

However, after much thought I did vote "sorta stale".  There are enough plots, but the plots (to me at least) all seem to be on the same plane.  I guess I'd like to see further clans close and more social "layers" open.  An internal struggle between Byn groups,  a RPT that revolves around grebbing, a 2-bit street gang (instead of, say, the Guild) making trouble for the Arm.

It's easy to find plots. They're there.

But it's also easy to trap yourself away from plots.

If you're not having fun with the game, I suggest you look closely at what you're doing, and make changes. Yes, store and roll a new PC if you have to.

Badly stagnant at the moment, for me anyway.
;D

We just need a massive war of epic epicness.

Everyone enlist in my army! I'm going to war and um... Free Hookers!

Seriusly, a war would pwn, but I'm having fun.

Quote from: Sam on March 05, 2011, 05:27:51 PM
I don't consider it a good thing.

I also see people being more creative in their emotes in Tuluk and they get less flowery as you move south. (Shameless Tuluki product placement)

The last time I was PK'ed around Tuluk, it was because I stopped to emote for a group of PCs, and they decided 'look' and 'kill' were just as good.  I guess you don't hang out with the mediocre players around Tuluk, or maybe people just get shitty when they're in a free-PK zone (probably the latter).

The player-driven plot system isn't working out, IMO.  A major policy change happened with no reworking of the clan structures (namely the GMHs) to make it more tenable, and for what structures were changed, they bend back to former shape because documentation hasn't been updated.  If leaders are in charge of their clan's fate, then they should have the documented authority to act confidently and have very clear expectations of what staff support will be given.

In the absence of more engaging conflicts, I think that we've began using magickers as a crutch for inspiring intrigue in our plots.
Not that it matters... but if I had my way ( ;D)... all magickal guilds would be drastically limited, so that the focus of the game returns to the mundane, city-state and GMH focused plots.  Zalanthas is a desert world - the story should be about two men trapped on an island with only one coconut, not catch-me-if-you-can set on endless repeat.  Magickers spread a wide wake, and while I recognize they're supposed to be terrifying and punctuate world-changing events with flashy colors and seared flesh, wine is becoming water, to the point that encountering a rogue magicker in the wilderness is commonplace, instead of being the tense, thrilling experience it should be.

...IMO.

Oh, nerfing the guilds you don't like is the way to advance plots.  Sure.  Or you could cope with the foul monsters IG like the rest of us.

There's a difference between nerfing and limiting available guild slots.  Nerfing implies that I think magickers are overpowered, which I don't, because they're supposed to be powerful.  I want magick to be rare again.

Quote from: Marshmellow on March 07, 2011, 12:09:31 PM
Or you could cope with the foul monsters IG like the rest of us.

Speaking for everyone can get dangerous, if unsolicited advice is your game.

I'm not speaking for everyone.  I'm saying that we haven't done as you suggested, and thus we're all coping with it IG without lamenting it on the board.

Also, I'm against limiting people's options, if they've earned them.  If they're playing unrealistically in some fashion or another, report to staff.

I havent encountered a rogue magicker in the wildreness in a good moment actually. And when i did, it was pretty damned scary.

Lamenting implies grief.  I've never lost a character to a magicker, nor have I, in the past two years, suffered any major ill from one.
My dissatisfaction is in having seen more than I care to count while taking even short-legged trips outside cities.  You're trying to read past what I actually wrote, and I assure you, I'm not the magick-hater you're pegging me to be.  

If people earn karma, they should have the options they've earned available to them.  However, its easy to recall periods when too many players decided to us their karma for elementalist roles.  Preservation of balance takes precedent over preservation of options, IMO, because balance is concerned with the maintaining the world, where options are concerned with the individual entitlement.

Quote from: Marshmellow on March 07, 2011, 01:54:01 PM
I'm not speaking for everyone.  I'm saying that we haven't done as you suggested, and thus we're all coping with the it IG without lamenting it on the board.

If you're saying that players still play, and therefore cope with the status quo, and that somehow disqualifies new ideas/suggestions being posted on the GDB... uh... I disagree.

If not, it seems as though you're generalizing.

I think YOU are generalizing.  You are applying your specific experience to the game as if it is everyone's experience and stating that change should be made to repair everything... when you're the only one complaining.

I don't play enough anymore to know- I think things go on with my clan and whatnot, but I am not really caught up that much.


:(

Quote from: Marshmellow on March 07, 2011, 04:44:01 PM
I think YOU are generalizing.  You are applying your specific experience to the game as if it is everyone's experience and stating that change should be made to repair everything... when you're the only one complaining.

Sunburned may be the only person to have brought up the idea that there are too many magickers running around in the last say, 6 posts of this thread ... but that's a sentiment that is held by a significant portion of the player base, and it surfaces on the boards with a cyclic consistency.

Sunburned is by no means the only person to have ever complained about that.

Are there too many magickers in the world, or too many lone wandering rangers for those magickers to hide from? ;)

Whether the sentiment is justified is another kettle of fish entirely  :D

I was just pointing out that even a cursory search of the GDB will show that Sunburned is not the only one to have spoken up about the ratio of 'gickers to mundanes.

It's a popular topic.

Alright!  The obligatory "I hate magickers" comment has been made.  Judging from the length of the mini-debate, we've got another 4 more posts to go before someone turns it back around.

Next, we have half-elves.  There being too many of them, that is.

After that is the Tan Muark, followed by Merchants, before we come back to Magickers.

Let's get hopping, people!

Quote from: musashi on March 07, 2011, 07:56:06 PM
I was just pointing out that even a cursory search of the GDB will show that Sunburned is not the only one to have spoken up about the ratio of 'gickers to mundanes.

This is a game design issue.  There are a total of six mundane guilds.  There are 9 magick/psionic guilds, plus templars.  Mundanes are actually the overwhelmingly popular choice as far as I can tell, seeing as I don't believe the magicker population is anywhere even remotely near 60% of the population of the game.

Question:    How do you find the Armageddon experience these days, in terms of action?



I think you all are on a major derail from this threads intention.

Kudos to all you crazies that read this thread. I can tell that you are kicking the plots into overdrive.


I am definately satisfied with Arm. Especially after a two week break.

Personally, I like plots but they're not entirely needed for me to have fun. Getting by, making enemies and friends, making mistakes and occasionally exploring (with chars that can do so, anyway) keeps me well entertained.

That said, more plots is good.

I think there are far too many assassins, and not enough magickers.

I've decided, due to the lack of good RP I've experienced in a few types of roles, that I'm going to attempt to create random and simple plots which are easiest for those roles to be involved in. No more shall be said, except that there's nothing wrong with what I'm doing.

I intend to make vague references to doing something (or not seeing things done) that I can't talk about, so like find out IC, but I will subtly drop references to at least three different parts of the game so you don't know wtf is going on.

Quote from: Ocotillo on March 08, 2011, 02:29:08 PM
I intend to make vague references to doing something (or not seeing things done) that I can't talk about, so like find out IC, but I will subtly drop references to at least three different parts of the game so you don't know wtf is going on.

The entire GDB in one post.

Quote from: maxid on March 08, 2011, 05:49:16 PM

Quote from: Ocotillo on March 08, 2011, 02:29:08 PM
I intend to make vague references to doing something (or not seeing things done) that I can't talk about, so like find out IC, but I will subtly drop references to at least three different parts of the game so you don't know wtf is going on.

The entire GDB in one post.

That's basically all we're allowed to do because of the rules, not because we want to lord our knowledge over you.  So people who know things have two options:  1) ignore ignorance when it appears on the GDB or 2) challenge it, but without the ability to bring concrete facts to bear.

If you don't like it...sorry.  That's just the way it is.

Quote from: Synthesis on March 08, 2011, 05:55:06 PM

Quote from: maxid on March 08, 2011, 05:49:16 PM

Quote from: Ocotillo on March 08, 2011, 02:29:08 PM
I intend to make vague references to doing something (or not seeing things done) that I can't talk about, so like find out IC, but I will subtly drop references to at least three different parts of the game so you don't know wtf is going on.

The entire GDB in one post.

That's basically all we're allowed to do because of the rules, not because we want to lord our knowledge over you.  So people who know things have two options:  1) ignore ignorance when it appears on the GDB or 2) challenge it, but without the ability to bring concrete facts to bear.

If you don't like it...sorry.  That's just the way it is.

I don't remember saying I didn't like it.  I'm actually one of the old timers, who knows what people are talking about 99% of the time, I just found it an amusing quote.

Synthesis - I think for some people, including you, that's true. I think there are also those who get carried away with the allusions and/or genuinely get a kick out of being mysterious about it.

That said, my intention was less to be angry than satirical.

Quote from: Pale Horse on March 07, 2011, 08:01:11 PM
Alright!  The obligatory "I hate magickers" comment has been made.  Judging from the length of the mini-debate, we've got another 4 more posts to go before someone turns it back around.

Next, we have half-elves.  There being too many of them, that is.

After that is the Tan Muark, followed by Merchants, before we come back to Magickers.

Let's get hopping, people!

You know, when we read the Docs and outline of Zalanthas everything seems logical:  it is a hypercritical society with a lot of stereotypes and hate; yet somehow all these 'groups' still[/] manage to exist.    Consequently, I think it may be a player-perception issue when we see X-type PCs and think they aren't representing what would be the norm.

For instance, Docs say some magickers are easier to hire than others.  Thus, unless your PC has a particular hate -- buy water from PCs, take a magicker out with your hunting party, whatever. 

Merchants -- they're all over!  Sure, GMH are huge but judging by the numbers of VNPCs, NPCs, and the districts in which Merchants live; GMH aren't the only ones making money.

I guess to make a long post shorter,  we just need to realize that all PC types exist (and should exist) and so we need to figure out better how to interact with one another more (like all the VNPCs and NPCs do on a regular basis)

QuoteConsequently, I think it may be a player-perception issue when we see X-type PCs and think they aren't representing what would be the norm.

Sorry for continuing the derail but I did want to comment on this. This is exactly what I think the root of the problem is. Everyone's opinion of what "rare" is exactly or what the "norm" is according to -their- interpretation of the documentation varies to some degree and everyone believes that -their- interpretation is the correct one and all others that differ are wrong.

let me put my Allanak face on, and restate my objective. i totally don't want this to be mysterious. it'd be odd and there'd be no point.

LET'S MAKE MORE EFFORTS TO BRING PLOTS TO THE UNCLANNED AND PUT THE UNCLANNED IN MORE PLOTS. LET'S DO IT, PEOPLES.

Quote from: Cindy42 on March 09, 2011, 08:49:36 PM
let me put my Allanak face on, and restate my objective. i totally don't want this to be mysterious. it'd be odd and there'd be no point.

LET'S MAKE MORE EFFORTS TO BRING PLOTS TO THE UNCLANNED AND PUT THE UNCLANNED IN MORE PLOTS. LET'S DO IT, PEOPLES.

No.  :P

When I'm unclanned, that's just what I do. When I'm clanned, the unclanned can suck it! Join a clan, become more deeply involved with the background and foundation of the world, and hopefully get to sample the fruits of sponsored roles' labors. Unclanned people know what they're in for when they want to do everything themselves.

Quote from: Zoltan on March 09, 2011, 09:15:39 PM

Quote from: Cindy42 on March 09, 2011, 08:49:36 PM
let me put my Allanak face on, and restate my objective. i totally don't want this to be mysterious. it'd be odd and there'd be no point.

LET'S MAKE MORE EFFORTS TO BRING PLOTS TO THE UNCLANNED AND PUT THE UNCLANNED IN MORE PLOTS. LET'S DO IT, PEOPLES.

No.  :P

When I'm unclanned, that's just what I do. When I'm clanned, the unclanned can suck it! Join a clan, become more deeply involved with the background and foundation of the world, and hopefully get to sample the fruits of sponsored roles' labors. Unclanned people know what they're in for when they want to do everything themselves.

Sorry, some people go unclanned because they're sick of being in clans, or afraid to. Just because a person is unclanned does not mean they shouldn't be included in plots. In fact, sometimes an unclanned person can offer a better/different perspective on a plot, and therefore make it more interesting.

Quote from: Saellyn on March 09, 2011, 09:21:35 PM

Quote from: Zoltan on March 09, 2011, 09:15:39 PM

Quote from: Cindy42 on March 09, 2011, 08:49:36 PM
let me put my Allanak face on, and restate my objective. i totally don't want this to be mysterious. it'd be odd and there'd be no point.

LET'S MAKE MORE EFFORTS TO BRING PLOTS TO THE UNCLANNED AND PUT THE UNCLANNED IN MORE PLOTS. LET'S DO IT, PEOPLES.

No.  :P

When I'm unclanned, that's just what I do. When I'm clanned, the unclanned can suck it! Join a clan, become more deeply involved with the background and foundation of the world, and hopefully get to sample the fruits of sponsored roles' labors. Unclanned people know what they're in for when they want to do everything themselves.

Sorry, some people go unclanned because they're sick of being in clans, or afraid to. Just because a person is unclanned does not mean they shouldn't be included in plots. In fact, sometimes an unclanned person can offer a better/different perspective on a plot, and therefore make it more interesting.

So do that. I've played plenty of unclanned characters myself.

Quote from: Saellyn on March 09, 2011, 09:21:35 PM

Quote from: Zoltan on March 09, 2011, 09:15:39 PM

Quote from: Cindy42 on March 09, 2011, 08:49:36 PM
let me put my Allanak face on, and restate my objective. i totally don't want this to be mysterious. it'd be odd and there'd be no point.

LET'S MAKE MORE EFFORTS TO BRING PLOTS TO THE UNCLANNED AND PUT THE UNCLANNED IN MORE PLOTS. LET'S DO IT, PEOPLES.

No.  :P

When I'm unclanned, that's just what I do. When I'm clanned, the unclanned can suck it! Join a clan, become more deeply involved with the background and foundation of the world, and hopefully get to sample the fruits of sponsored roles' labors. Unclanned people know what they're in for when they want to do everything themselves.

Sorry, some people go unclanned because they're sick of being in clans, or afraid to. Just because a person is unclanned does not mean they shouldn't be included in plots. In fact, sometimes an unclanned person can offer a better/different perspective on a plot, and therefore make it more interesting.

In my opinion, unclanned are generally included in minor plots, or minor pieces of major plots, though the chance of being in a major plot increases in clans because of a couple of factors:
1) clan leaders running plots require trust from the people participating in certain plots, so they give those tasks to clan members, and
2) plots with backing from clans tend to have the support of those clan(s), whether it's virtual resources (like slaves, materials, or money) or otherwise, and thus are complicated enough to involve doing a lot.

If you want more unclanned plots, be an unclanned person trying to start more unclanned plots.  Or be a clanned person and invite more unclanned people into your plots yourself.  But I think Cutty had a few good points for why unclanned people might not get invited to participate intensely with clanned plots (on the flip side, I've seen some unclanned people who have built up trust with clans be repeatedly utilized by those clans in their plots--but it definitely didn't happen overnight.)

Just try not to make yourself unhappy by expecting too much too fast   :).  It can be really grumpifying to think that you're doing all of this cool stuff and it's not changing the game world, but a small group of people in the whole of Zalanthas probably isn't going to feasibly be able to change hundred-years-old-institutions over night.  And don't be surprised if those institutions react in predictable ways, and you start encountering opposition or something.  But I guess that goes for clanned groups too.

Ultimately, I'll pick clanned or unclanned characters to work with on something, based on what my character would do given the IC circumstances.  Would it really make sense for my Merchant Frilly to use (and pay!) Unaccountable Independent Hunter X, when she's got a crack group of Dependable, Known Hunters A through D just rip-raring to go on a tear?  Maybe.  But whether the players of the unaccountable independent hunters are being involved in plots is an OOC factor, not likely to enter into that analysis.  At least for me!

I'm just saying, sometimes you gotta give those unclanned folks a chance. Maybe they'll join your clan if you do?

pretty much the jist of plots are thus:

GMH: Hunters hunt, crafts craft, merchants sell
militia/legions: train then patrol
byn: train train train, shovel shit, train train escort someone

random raiders come and go and that does cause some plot. but really, thats the extent of it I see.

I easily spend a good quarter of my time in-game coming up with 'quests' for people outside of my clan and the sending them upon said quests.

Most people reject my efforts. Can't you see the glowing exclamation mark over my head?!

Quote from: Fredd on March 10, 2011, 12:58:16 AM
pretty much the jist of plots are thus:

GMH: Hunters hunt, crafts craft, merchants sell
militia/legions: train then patrol
byn: train train train, shovel shit, train train escort someone

random raiders come and go and that does cause some plot. but really, thats the extent of it I see.

This is more like what I was thinking.  There's tons to do... but it can be repetitious at times.

I think if every clan focused on what _type_ of PC they would hire,  we'd have a ton of options.

Quote from: jstorrie on March 10, 2011, 02:52:12 AM
I easily spend a good quarter of my time in-game coming up with 'quests' for people outside of my clan and the sending them upon said quests.

Most people reject my efforts. Can't you see the glowing exclamation mark over my head?!

I have to say I agree with this sentiment as well. People that want into plots need to seem like they are interested, or else it's not going to work out. There's only so much one can do to make it obvious you're interested in what a "quest-giver" needs someone to do, but if one does those things they're pretty much guaranteed some good interaction.

i think non-humans and freaky humans should probably have more clan options then just Kurac and Byn. that's like, one option, depending on what guild you have. i'd like seeing more minor merchant houses. as far as i can tell from the docs, there's only one that isn't forced to be a leg or arm for a GMH. say a minor merchant house for city elves or something. now a non-combat city elf has a reasonable chance of surviving on their own.

Quote from: Cindy42 on March 11, 2011, 01:47:27 AM
i think non-humans and freaky humans should probably have more clan options then just Kurac and Byn. that's like, one option, depending on what guild you have. i'd like seeing more minor merchant houses. as far as i can tell from the docs, there's only one that isn't forced to be a leg or arm for a GMH. say a minor merchant house for city elves or something. now a non-combat city elf has a reasonable chance of surviving on their own.

Go read the clan listings.

Quote from: HavokBlue on March 11, 2011, 01:49:37 AM

Quote from: Cindy42 on March 11, 2011, 01:47:27 AM
i think non-humans and freaky humans should probably have more clan options then just Kurac and Byn. that's like, one option, depending on what guild you have. i'd like seeing more minor merchant houses. as far as i can tell from the docs, there's only one that isn't forced to be a leg or arm for a GMH. say a minor merchant house for city elves or something. now a non-combat city elf has a reasonable chance of surviving on their own.

Go read the clan listings.

crap, sorry.

i meant in-city, Tek or Utep supported clans like GMHs.

but yeah, i think i remember something now.

There are in-city options beyond Kurac and the Byn for social outcasts and elves, no matter your class is.

That said, the trouble many of those races face in trying to find employment is intentional and documented. Who wants to hire a nasty looking mutant to serve people at your bar? He's going to scare people away.

If you are a single character that is not in a clan, you will not receive as much Staff attention as someone in a clan.

Quote from: Cindy42 on March 11, 2011, 01:53:41 AM

Quote from: HavokBlue on March 11, 2011, 01:49:37 AM

Quote from: Cindy42 on March 11, 2011, 01:47:27 AM
i think non-humans and freaky humans should probably have more clan options then just Kurac and Byn. that's like, one option, depending on what guild you have. i'd like seeing more minor merchant houses. as far as i can tell from the docs, there's only one that isn't forced to be a leg or arm for a GMH. say a minor merchant house for city elves or something. now a non-combat city elf has a reasonable chance of surviving on their own.

Go read the clan listings.

crap, sorry.

i meant in-city, Tek or Utep supported clans like GMHs.

but yeah, i think i remember something now.

Just because many clans don't officially hire certain races does not at all mean that the other races have no opportunities with those clans. It just means that they will have to try harder to find said opportunities.

If House Amos can only hire humans and dwarves onto the Army of Amos, you may see a Lord of Amos also secretly hiring breeds to hunt outside of the city for rare things, elves to steal things from House Malik, mutants and half-giants to intimidate/scare opponents, etc. These secret employees won't have House Amos' livery or even be seen with House Amos in public, but they know very well who puts the food on their table. But to see those things, you have to look for them.

Quote from: Fredd on March 10, 2011, 12:58:16 AM
pretty much the jist of plots are thus:

GMH: Hunters hunt, crafts craft, merchants sell
militia/legions: train then patrol
byn: train train train, shovel shit, train train escort someone

random raiders come and go and that does cause some plot. but really, thats the extent of it I see.

So make your own plot? Start a rivalry with Buff McBuffster about who the best hunter is, or fighter. Start a rivalry with Crafty Crafterston about who can make the best damn ring this side of the Known. You gotta show a little initiative (which is something everyone needs to show too!)

I think it helps to not think of it as a "plot" rather than a "goal" or a "mission".

I like to be unclanned and make my own plots that only involve me. >.>

Take that IG society.

Everyone knows if you let a mutant stare at you your kids will be mutants. Hire them? They're lucky not to be killed.

People like to ignore all those superstitions, sadly. A gemmer got pissed at one of my first PCs who immediately dropped to the floor, kissing the ground and praying for Tek to save him.

He got a lot of strange looks.

Quote from: HavokBlue on March 11, 2011, 01:45:09 PM
People like to ignore all those superstitions, sadly. A gemmer got pissed at one of my first PCs do immediately dropped to the floor, kissing the ground and praying for Tek to save him.

He got a lot of strange looks.

That's maybe a bit extreme, but I honestly have never seen people defend gemmers. I've seen a lot of hatin', which is good.

It gets a bit out of control when some fellows actually try to pick fights with gemmers.

Probably not a common experience.

Hehe... I've had people on at least two occasions tell my ignorant hate-filled PC that they should be grateful to Vivaduans because that's where all the water comes from in Allanak.

Though that isn't the norm. Nearly everyone does it right, more so in recent years if I'm not mistaken.

edit: ignore this, I need to stop trying to GDB on my phone

Quote from: HavokBlue on March 11, 2011, 01:45:09 PM
People like to ignore all those superstitions, sadly. A gemmer got pissed at one of my first PCs who immediately dropped to the floor, kissing the ground and praying for Tek to save him.

He got a lot of strange looks.

The ascii doesn't translate well, but here: Go to help map allanak (http://www.armageddon.org/cgi-bin/help_index/show_help?Map_Allanak) in game, or to the link for it there. In a city where there is an entire quarter dedicated to them with no place to buy normal water, no grocer, and nearly no vendors of any kind, and the Gaj within sight of one of the elementalist temples, which butts up against the main road, by the by, I think it's a fair bet to assume that something like that is going a little far. There is at least one NPC in the city outside the Quarter with a gem, and you can bet there are vnpcs wandering the city with them too.

QuoteX                                                                           X
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
X                               TSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS6                        X
X                               T                  W        Merchants'      X
X  Elementalists' Quarter       T   Main Bazaar    W                        X
X                               T                  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMX
X                            #  T                  M                       MX
X    2         #             CCCC                 $M                       MX
1CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC7 CMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM         Quarter       MX
X       3*     O             CCCC4                                         M5
X  Commoners'  O                TAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX8X
X              O                T                  A                        X
X OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT                  A                        X
X              OO               T    The Arena     A        Nobles'         X
X              9O               T                  A                        X
X               O               T                  A                        X
X IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX8        Quarter         X
X              O                T                                           X
X              O  Quarter       T                                           X
X              O                T                                           X
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX8XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
X                                                                           X
X                            Templars' Quarter                              X
X                                                                           X
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Legend:

* - Starting Point in Allanak

1 - Caravan Gates

2 - The Stables

3 - The Gladiator and the Gaj Tavern (General Bar)

4 - The Traders Inn (Higher Class Bar/Inn for Merchants and Nobles)

5 - The Merchants Gates

6 - Tzai Byn Guildhouse

7 - Temple of the Dragon (water seller)

8 - Gates into Nobles' and Templars' Quarters (Restricted Access)

9 - Red's Retreat (Middle-class Commoner Bar)

# - Gates into Elementalists' Quarter (Restricted Access)

$ - House Nenyuk's Bank

C - Caravan Way/Meleth's Circle

O - Commoner's Way/Stonecarver's Road

T - Templar's Way/Tradesman's Street

W - Warrior's Way

S - The Road of Slaves

A - Arena Road

I - Miner's Way

X - Miscellaneous Walls

Notes:
    Most provisions and equipment are available in the Main Bazaar, although
    some may be located more cheaply in the Commoner's Quarter.
    The Labyrinth is highly dangerous - see help labyrinth for details.
    Commoners are usually not seen in the Noble's Quarter, and may be killed
    on sight if found in the Templars' Quarter.

As to the game itself: There is a lot of room for interesting and creative plots, but too many people fall into very trite activities. Yes they are IC, but they get repetitive, and begin to feel about as interesting as idling. Hunters hunt merchants craft raiders raid, etc. Not so. Or, rather, it needn't BE so. It is entirely possible to do interesting, unique, and crazy things, given the right work, long term, if you keep a good dialogue with staff and do your share of the work IC. I think possibly one of the larger mistakes made is people assuming that not being backed by vnpcs during reports is a lack of support on the part of staff. Sometimes what you want to do just isn't in accord with what other groups of people want to do. And it can take a year + to learn that IC with a different character far down the road. But I have, myself, thought in the past that being told X isn't feasible was essentially a 'no'. Not that it was a 'It's possible, but not with this group of people who would logically have no interest in it'. Regarding 'the grind': It's bullshit. If you want to play nothing but the superuber guy who sits in the bar nodding and shaking his head while not cleaning newbie blood off your vest, get your prick on. I'm gonna be that weak fuck in the corner who's ballsdeep in plots and has almost no skill to back it - but has enough homies to kick your ass hands down.  ;)

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,34198

If a wiggler is sitting there threatening to kill you, I'd say kissing the ground and praying is an entirely valid response, based on the documentation.

QuoteWhen shadows creep on you suddenly, it surely must be a magicker. Kiss the back of your hands and pray to the Highlord to ward it off.

Kiss the ground for the Highlord before bed, and He will protect you from magickers robbing your breath.

But on topic: The game is mostly fine.

Just going to toss this out here:

I think the docs need updated,  esp the "what you know" docs.  I believe the lack of information available may cost new player frustration as well as GDB threads.  The docs describe the world as seen by the majority of its NPC and VNPC inhabitants.  However, the majority of PCs won't ever actually experience the world in such a manner and my guess is for many new players the jolt of this discrepancy is too great and they leave.  I just think the docs need to be either followed a bit more closely or we change the docs. 

Specifically, I'm referring to employment (no one is every actually hired to be a cook, an aide, an artist, etc)  and the fact that PCs function on a level of Capitalistic/Corruption/Blackmail that, if allowed to become the norm, would destroy the very system we all pretend to play under.   

So yeah, we have different plots -- but they're all the same plots!  "blah blah blah, but really be my spy,  blah blah blah, spy spy spy,  blah blah blah, find any PC in any and all city-states, blah blah blah, murder"   

Quote from: My 2 sids on March 16, 2011, 09:48:33 AM
Specifically, I'm referring to employment (no one is every actually hired to be a cook, an aide, an artist, etc)

Artist is difficult, as you'd have to be up to mastercrafting level (and are paintings even possible?).  But aide is common, and cook is certainly doable.  It's a matter of either being able to support yourself or finding a clan leader who's OOCly able and willing to hire someone who doesn't sling a sword.

I spent at least a couple RL months as a stableboy before we even had real dung.

And my all time personal favorite since tdesc went in ... barber!  ;D

As of the last few months or so, I should change my vote to stale.

The who command returns upwards of 60 PCs online during peak, and usually between 15 to 25 off peak, yet PCs I've had in both Tuluk and Allanak struggle to find interaction of even the most basic things, let alone any actual plots. Taverns seem exceptionally slow compared to their normal levels. 3 to 5 PCs (who aren't link-dead/krath-struck or just idle) in the Gaj or Sanc during peak times? Barely passing people on the roads when you go looking for interaction at other locations?

Am I really just this unlucky as of late?
Are alot of people hiding in apartments/compounds?
Are the D-elves/human tribals overflowing with PCs?
Are there sekrit meetings taking place in Red Storm of some 40 PCs each week that my own PC hasn't caught wind of?

For the record, I think everybody wonders where at least 50 of the other 60 PCs are, and who those 40-50 new PCs a week are.

Quote from: Lukoyin on April 12, 2011, 06:38:05 PM
As of the last few months or so, I should change my vote to stale.

The who command returns upwards of 60 PCs online during peak, and usually between 15 to 25 off peak, yet PCs I've had in both Tuluk and Allanak struggle to find interaction of even the most basic things, let alone any actual plots. Taverns seem exceptionally slow compared to their normal levels. 3 to 5 PCs (who aren't link-dead/krath-struck or just idle) in the Gaj or Sanc during peak times? Barely passing people on the roads when you go looking for interaction at other locations?

Am I really just this unlucky as of late?
Are a lot of people hiding in apartments/compounds?
Are the D-elves/human tribals overflowing with PCs?
Are there sekrit meetings taking place in Red Storm of some 40 PCs each week that my own PC hasn't caught wind of?

No, I agree.  I think the peak amounts of players are down as well from a few months ago they were hitting seventies now they are lingering in very lower fifties to forties.

Quote from: Bebop on April 12, 2011, 06:47:11 PM

Quote from: Lukoyin on April 12, 2011, 06:38:05 PM
As of the last few months or so, I should change my vote to stale.

The who command returns upwards of 60 PCs online during peak, and usually between 15 to 25 off peak, yet PCs I've had in both Tuluk and Allanak struggle to find interaction of even the most basic things, let alone any actual plots. Taverns seem exceptionally slow compared to their normal levels. 3 to 5 PCs (who aren't link-dead/krath-struck or just idle) in the Gaj or Sanc during peak times? Barely passing people on the roads when you go looking for interaction at other locations?

Am I really just this unlucky as of late?
Are a lot of people hiding in apartments/compounds?
Are the D-elves/human tribals overflowing with PCs?
Are there sekrit meetings taking place in Red Storm of some 40 PCs each week that my own PC hasn't caught wind of?

No, I agree.  I think the peak amounts of players are down as well from a few months ago they were hitting seventies now they are lingering in very lower fifties to forties.

It's not just you.  I've been noticing this for some time.

Hmm... sounds like its time for shit to get real.  *begins to plot*

(http://images2.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/5720875/well-gents-shit-just-got-real.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=Snob)

But for seriously.  Don't take a leadership gig if you don't gots time for it.

I have noticed the bar scene is not as active as it has been in past months. Not sure why.

I observe the non-city scene as being particularly lively atm, which may explain boring cities.

I was pleased with how many people I've seen in a small village recently. As far as the state of the game, indies have always been less involved in large plots, yet at the same time, they see smaller parts of more plots than many clanned folk do.

I've always wished that clans provided a better life than being independent. Unfortunately, it does not regularly provide as much enjoyment, and though I think that could be fixed pretty easy, this is not the thread for that.

I think particularly with an upcoming, large RPT, you might be able to find lots of activity outside the cities.

Also.  It's spring.  And it's exam season for a lot of us.  The number of unique logins per week seems to have pretty much held steady at 260, so maybe people are just playing less (and in the less obvious locations other people suggested).

Quote from: valeria on April 12, 2011, 08:05:00 PM
Also.  It's spring.  And it's exam season for a lot of us.  The number of unique logins per week seems to have pretty much held steady at 260, so maybe people are just playing less (and in the less obvious locations other people suggested).

I think the nice weather and possibly spring exams might be making the player number less. We always see an upswing again in the summer, when people don't have classes.

Also, Gypsyfest is coming up. I expect that player numbers will climb higher as that gets closer, and we'll have a great turn out for the actual event.

I was starting to think it was just one city state and i was planing of starting anew somewhere else. I guess it is everywhere though.

I can't help but get the slight impression the game and its players have become more PK oriented then it was in the past.

In all the time i've played this game i think i've only killed two or three people. One by complete accident, another by mass gank during the copper wars, and one ...actually i didn't manage to kill him...i tried so so hard, (i had trained hard, had him outnumbered, had him in a good location...etc etc.etc) to the point the staff told me that they couldn't understand how i managed to fail and to just kill him next time to avoid so much trouble (through an NPC)....but the guy still got away at the end. :)

That was three or four years ago though. With the shift in policy to more player based plots, the players with the energy, time and the talent to put effort into making the big plots happen or cause meaningful trouble tend to stand out more.  Of course there are PC out there who will want their characters dead for whatever IC reason, both quickly and without trouble to themselves. This is fine and all but all you end up with at the end is quiet long-lived PCs who are waiting for something exciting to happen. Well hope you're patient....

I wonder if PCs these days are too quick to kill other PC over trival matters then they were in the past. I can help but think because there aren't any large visible plots/conflict for PCs to get involved in, they often resort to planning murders since it is an easy way to have fun. While killing is often the only IC thing to do in some cases, but perhaps if there were more PCs who ICly believed that having someone kicked from the clan, shamed infront of their mates, stripped naked and tossed out in to the desert was a worst fate then just a quiet quick death somewhere remote, then maybe we'd have more plots and people in the taverns to drive them.  ???

I don't know this is just a small lingering thought right now which could be completely wrong so take it with a grain of salt.

I actually feel there's less killling going on than there was in the past.

I think PKs only depend on where you are. It doesn't quite seem so bad from my angle.

I did all my PKs on only one character, think he killed about 2-5 characters or something. He was actually the nicest of all my characters, though merciless if ordered to be, especially if it interfered with his focus. It's not really something I enjoy OOC. He did have one character he didn't like knocked out and stripped like you say, though that character just calmly woke up and walked back into the Gaj and not caring and I regret not dumping him deeper in the desert or in a well :P

On the other hand, I've had 2 raider type characters, 1 psychopath assassin, and none of them killed any PCs. They just taunted and teased their prey, giving them a chance to beg or give a reason not to be killed, and even then, they try to knock out those characters if all they want is the loot.

PK is often a last resort. I think very few Arm players find any satisfaction in PK, especially since you can already 'win' against them in so many other ways, and having a PC rival naked at the bottom of a well wanting you dead is so much more fun.


On activity itself, I did notice quite a few taverns fill up. Interestingly, I've had characters up in every starting location, and I've seen characters travel from literally the other end of the map to the other, so it's often the exact same characters tavern sitting. There's far more visible activity in Red Storm and Luir's because people can only meet in one small location, and it's not split into tons of clans and taverns and apartments and other quit spots/stables.

Heck, one thing I've noticed from my off peak times is that people will travel further to socialize when there's nobody. I noticed that migration pattern in my own characters and some of their friends, where they would move further when they can't interact with the people they want to. Someone would go "X clan is dead, I'm moving to Y clan." Where these clans are often dead only because clan members aren't online at the same time.

But hell, sometimes I wonder where those other 20 characters are most of the time. And sometimes I wonder if some rogue sorcerer hiding in a cave is actually enjoying himself. Or how long he can hide in that cave before getting bored.

I think it's sad that so many people equate tavern-sitting to things/events happening in-game, but I guess that's just a self-perpetuating cycle.

Quote from: Ocotillo on March 08, 2011, 02:29:08 PM
I intend to make vague references to doing something (or not seeing things done) that I can't talk about, so like find out IC, but I will subtly drop references to at least three different parts of the game so you don't know wtf is going on.

i...

i think i am in love

i live in dallas

Quote from: Ghost on April 14, 2011, 01:32:36 PM

Quote from: Ocotillo on March 08, 2011, 02:29:08 PM
I intend to make vague references to doing something (or not seeing things done) that I can't talk about, so like find out IC, but I will subtly drop references to at least three different parts of the game so you don't know wtf is going on.

i...

i think i am in love

i live in dallas

You said you thought you were in 'line'.... don't go cheating and changing the clues now. I was on to your master plot!


Derailment aside,  what riya and Jhunter said depressed the heck out of me. I thought the people being killed where the master plotters who tended to stand out. :(

Quote from: Riya OniSenshi on April 14, 2011, 01:18:33 PM
I think it's sad that so many people equate tavern-sitting to things/events happening in-game, but I guess that's just a self-perpetuating cycle.

Heh, yeah, it's sort of the opposite. I only tavern sit when nothing happens. But if you're not tavern sitting, you're probably having fun in some small group that I don't interact with.

Quote from: Riya OniSenshi on April 14, 2011, 01:18:33 PM
I think it's sad that so many people equate tavern-sitting to things/events happening in-game, but I guess that's just a self-perpetuating cycle.