State of the game poll

[Saellyn]

I'm just saying, sometimes you gotta give those unclanned folks a chance. Maybe they'll join your clan if you do?

[Fredd]

pretty much the jist of plots are thus:

GMH: Hunters hunt, crafts craft, merchants sell
militia/legions: train then patrol
byn: train train train, shovel shit, train train escort someone

random raiders come and go and that does cause some plot. but really, thats the extent of it I see.

[jstorrie]

I easily spend a good quarter of my time in-game coming up with 'quests' for people outside of my clan and the sending them upon said quests.

Most people reject my efforts. Can't you see the glowing exclamation mark over my head?!

[My 2 sids]

pretty much the jist of plots are thus:

GMH: Hunters hunt, crafts craft, merchants sell
militia/legions: train then patrol
byn: train train train, shovel shit, train train escort someone

random raiders come and go and that does cause some plot. but really, thats the extent of it I see.

This is more like what I was thinking.  There's tons to do... but it can be repetitious at times.

I think if every clan focused on what _type_ of PC they would hire,  we'd have a ton of options.

[Cutthroat]

I easily spend a good quarter of my time in-game coming up with 'quests' for people outside of my clan and the sending them upon said quests.

Most people reject my efforts. Can't you see the glowing exclamation mark over my head?!

I have to say I agree with this sentiment as well. People that want into plots need to seem like they are interested, or else it's not going to work out. There's only so much one can do to make it obvious you're interested in what a "quest-giver" needs someone to do, but if one does those things they're pretty much guaranteed some good interaction.

[Cindy42]

i think non-humans and freaky humans should probably have more clan options then just Kurac and Byn. that's like, one option, depending on what guild you have. i'd like seeing more minor merchant houses. as far as i can tell from the docs, there's only one that isn't forced to be a leg or arm for a GMH. say a minor merchant house for city elves or something. now a non-combat city elf has a reasonable chance of surviving on their own.

[HavokBlue]

i think non-humans and freaky humans should probably have more clan options then just Kurac and Byn. that's like, one option, depending on what guild you have. i'd like seeing more minor merchant houses. as far as i can tell from the docs, there's only one that isn't forced to be a leg or arm for a GMH. say a minor merchant house for city elves or something. now a non-combat city elf has a reasonable chance of surviving on their own.

Go read the clan listings.

[Cindy42]

i think non-humans and freaky humans should probably have more clan options then just Kurac and Byn. that's like, one option, depending on what guild you have. i'd like seeing more minor merchant houses. as far as i can tell from the docs, there's only one that isn't forced to be a leg or arm for a GMH. say a minor merchant house for city elves or something. now a non-combat city elf has a reasonable chance of surviving on their own.

Go read the clan listings.

crap, sorry.

i meant in-city, Tek or Utep supported clans like GMHs.

but yeah, i think i remember something now.

[HavokBlue]

There are in-city options beyond Kurac and the Byn for social outcasts and elves, no matter your class is.

That said, the trouble many of those races face in trying to find employment is intentional and documented. Who wants to hire a nasty looking mutant to serve people at your bar? He's going to scare people away.

[Reiloth]

If you are a single character that is not in a clan, you will not receive as much Staff attention as someone in a clan.

[Cutthroat]

i think non-humans and freaky humans should probably have more clan options then just Kurac and Byn. that's like, one option, depending on what guild you have. i'd like seeing more minor merchant houses. as far as i can tell from the docs, there's only one that isn't forced to be a leg or arm for a GMH. say a minor merchant house for city elves or something. now a non-combat city elf has a reasonable chance of surviving on their own.

Go read the clan listings.

crap, sorry.

i meant in-city, Tek or Utep supported clans like GMHs.

but yeah, i think i remember something now.

Just because many clans don't officially hire certain races does not at all mean that the other races have no opportunities with those clans. It just means that they will have to try harder to find said opportunities.

If House Amos can only hire humans and dwarves onto the Army of Amos, you may see a Lord of Amos also secretly hiring breeds to hunt outside of the city for rare things, elves to steal things from House Malik, mutants and half-giants to intimidate/scare opponents, etc. These secret employees won't have House Amos' livery or even be seen with House Amos in public, but they know very well who puts the food on their table. But to see those things, you have to look for them.

[Saellyn]

pretty much the jist of plots are thus:

GMH: Hunters hunt, crafts craft, merchants sell
militia/legions: train then patrol
byn: train train train, shovel shit, train train escort someone

random raiders come and go and that does cause some plot. but really, thats the extent of it I see.

So make your own plot? Start a rivalry with Buff McBuffster about who the best hunter is, or fighter. Start a rivalry with Crafty Crafterston about who can make the best damn ring this side of the Known. You gotta show a little initiative (which is something everyone needs to show too!)

[Xeran Van Houten]

I think it helps to not think of it as a "plot" rather than a "goal" or a "mission".

[Jengal]

I like to be unclanned and make my own plots that only involve me. >.>

Take that IG society.

[Barzalene]

Everyone knows if you let a mutant stare at you your kids will be mutants. Hire them? They're lucky not to be killed.

[HavokBlue]

People like to ignore all those superstitions, sadly. A gemmer got pissed at one of my first PCs who immediately dropped to the floor, kissing the ground and praying for Tek to save him.

He got a lot of strange looks.

[Reiloth]

People like to ignore all those superstitions, sadly. A gemmer got pissed at one of my first PCs do immediately dropped to the floor, kissing the ground and praying for Tek to save him.

He got a lot of strange looks.

That's maybe a bit extreme, but I honestly have never seen people defend gemmers. I've seen a lot of hatin', which is good.

[Jingo]

It gets a bit out of control when some fellows actually try to pick fights with gemmers.

Probably not a common experience.

[Spoon]

Hehe... I've had people on at least two occasions tell my ignorant hate-filled PC that they should be grateful to Vivaduans because that's where all the water comes from in Allanak.

Though that isn't the norm. Nearly everyone does it right, more so in recent years if I'm not mistaken.

[HavokBlue]

edit: ignore this, I need to stop trying to GDB on my phone

[Nil AlSahni]

People like to ignore all those superstitions, sadly. A gemmer got pissed at one of my first PCs who immediately dropped to the floor, kissing the ground and praying for Tek to save him.

He got a lot of strange looks.

The ascii doesn't translate well, but here: Go to help map allanak in game, or to the link for it there. In a city where there is an entire quarter dedicated to them with no place to buy normal water, no grocer, and nearly no vendors of any kind, and the Gaj within sight of one of the elementalist temples, which butts up against the main road, by the by, I think it's a fair bet to assume that something like that is going a little far. There is at least one NPC in the city outside the Quarter with a gem, and you can bet there are vnpcs wandering the city with them too.

X                                                                           X
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
X                               TSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS6                        X
X                               T                  W        Merchants'      X
X  Elementalists' Quarter       T   Main Bazaar    W                        X
X                               T                  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMX
X                            #  T                  M                       MX
X    2         #             CCCC                 $M                       MX
1CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC7 CMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM         Quarter       MX
X       3*     O             CCCC4                                         M5
X  Commoners'  O                TAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX8X
X              O                T                  A                        X
X OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT                  A                        X
X              OO               T    The Arena     A        Nobles'         X
X              9O               T                  A                        X
X               O               T                  A                        X
X IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX8        Quarter         X
X              O                T                                           X
X              O  Quarter       T                                           X
X              O                T                                           X
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX8XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
X                                                                           X
X                            Templars' Quarter                              X
X                                                                           X
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Legend:

* - Starting Point in Allanak

1 - Caravan Gates

2 - The Stables

3 - The Gladiator and the Gaj Tavern (General Bar)

4 - The Traders Inn (Higher Class Bar/Inn for Merchants and Nobles)

5 - The Merchants Gates

6 - Tzai Byn Guildhouse

7 - Temple of the Dragon (water seller)

8 - Gates into Nobles' and Templars' Quarters (Restricted Access)

9 - Red's Retreat (Middle-class Commoner Bar)

# - Gates into Elementalists' Quarter (Restricted Access)

$ - House Nenyuk's Bank

C - Caravan Way/Meleth's Circle

O - Commoner's Way/Stonecarver's Road

T - Templar's Way/Tradesman's Street

W - Warrior's Way

S - The Road of Slaves

A - Arena Road

I - Miner's Way

X - Miscellaneous Walls

Notes:
    Most provisions and equipment are available in the Main Bazaar, although
    some may be located more cheaply in the Commoner's Quarter.
    The Labyrinth is highly dangerous - see help labyrinth for details.
    Commoners are usually not seen in the Noble's Quarter, and may be killed
    on sight if found in the Templars' Quarter.

As to the game itself: There is a lot of room for interesting and creative plots, but too many people fall into very trite activities. Yes they are IC, but they get repetitive, and begin to feel about as interesting as idling. Hunters hunt merchants craft raiders raid, etc. Not so. Or, rather, it needn't BE so. It is entirely possible to do interesting, unique, and crazy things, given the right work, long term, if you keep a good dialogue with staff and do your share of the work IC. I think possibly one of the larger mistakes made is people assuming that not being backed by vnpcs during reports is a lack of support on the part of staff. Sometimes what you want to do just isn't in accord with what other groups of people want to do. And it can take a year + to learn that IC with a different character far down the road. But I have, myself, thought in the past that being told X isn't feasible was essentially a 'no'. Not that it was a 'It's possible, but not with this group of people who would logically have no interest in it'. Regarding 'the grind': It's bullshit. If you want to play nothing but the superuber guy who sits in the bar nodding and shaking his head while not cleaning newbie blood off your vest, get your prick on. I'm gonna be that weak fuck in the corner who's ballsdeep in plots and has almost no skill to back it - but has enough homies to kick your ass hands down. 

[Xeran Van Houten]

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,34198

[HavokBlue]

If a wiggler is sitting there threatening to kill you, I'd say kissing the ground and praying is an entirely valid response, based on the documentation.

When shadows creep on you suddenly, it surely must be a magicker. Kiss the back of your hands and pray to the Highlord to ward it off.

Kiss the ground for the Highlord before bed, and He will protect you from magickers robbing your breath.

But on topic: The game is mostly fine.

[My 2 sids]

Just going to toss this out here:

I think the docs need updated,  esp the "what you know" docs.  I believe the lack of information available may cost new player frustration as well as GDB threads.  The docs describe the world as seen by the majority of its NPC and VNPC inhabitants.  However, the majority of PCs won't ever actually experience the world in such a manner and my guess is for many new players the jolt of this discrepancy is too great and they leave.  I just think the docs need to be either followed a bit more closely or we change the docs. 

Specifically, I'm referring to employment (no one is every actually hired to be a cook, an aide, an artist, etc)  and the fact that PCs function on a level of Capitalistic/Corruption/Blackmail that, if allowed to become the norm, would destroy the very system we all pretend to play under.   

So yeah, we have different plots -- but they're all the same plots!  "blah blah blah, but really be my spy,  blah blah blah, spy spy spy,  blah blah blah, find any PC in any and all city-states, blah blah blah, murder"   

[brytta.leofa]

Specifically, I'm referring to employment (no one is every actually hired to be a cook, an aide, an artist, etc)

Artist is difficult, as you'd have to be up to mastercrafting level (and are paintings even possible?).  But aide is common, and cook is certainly doable.  It's a matter of either being able to support yourself or finding a clan leader who's OOCly able and willing to hire someone who doesn't sling a sword.

I spent at least a couple RL months as a stableboy before we even had real dung.