Armageddon General Discussion Board

Alright, here is the idea.

Should players be forced to use their PC's name as a coded keyword?

Realistically, it makes no sense.

The way it is set up now, if you have a bounty on your head and your name is Jack Sparrow, the first time a bounty hunter runs across you, even if you have dyed your hair and changed your clothes and grown a beard, and he types..."Assess Sparrow"...he is going to OOC'ly instantly know that you are the man he is looking for, even though IC'ly he should have no clue, and he is going to bum rape you.

The way it is set up now, any time you do get a bounty on your head every bounty hunter with access to and IC Rumor Board is instantly going to..."Contact Sparrow"...in hopes of attaining your sdesc.

The way it is set up now, any time you want to try and pull a con on someone, and they have been ooc'ly instructed by their ooc buddy that "Jack Sparrow is a conman, dont trust him." and they do..."Assess Sparrow"...you can kiss your sweet con goodbye, all for OOC reasons.

The way it is set up now, any time you want to do ANYTHING and a character who has never met you before IC knows your coded name is associated with something negative, you are screwed, because even though it is NOT IC AT ALL, they will never trust you.

There is no real reason to have names as coded keywords anymore, none that I can think of at all.

Origionally it was done to make things OOC'ly more convenient when emoting, and using the Way.

Sure it is easier to...

Emote tips his head to ~jack.

Than it is to...

Emote tips his head to ~brown.

But its not so much easier that it would cripple the emoting system if we forced people to emote with each other using sdesc keywords.

When people use names like..."Marverikalesoc"...everyone already uses a sdesc keyword anyways.

Noone ever uses names like that to emote with as target words.

Should we also make it against the rules to use long names for OOC emoting convenience?

------

Back in the day, you could contact using one keyword...

contact brown

Or you could contact using someone's name...

Contact Jack

Back in the day, it was a major pain the butt to try and contact someone using only one keyword, unless they had an VERY unique keyword, which a lot of people didnt, so that caused confusion.

Now that you can use multiple sdesc words...

contact black-eyed, blue-haired man

There is no reason to have names as keywords for contacting convenience, its just not needed anymore.

Easier? Yes

Needed? No

I think the negatives of having names as keywords, especially in relation to ruining actual RP, FAR out weigh the positives of having to "Type Less" when you emote and contact.

I'm all for killing names as Keywords, as long as the player can still reference themselves with me, or add their name as a keyword using the addkeyword command if they so choose. Realistically, it would be better this way, I think.

Another thing we could do is add a psi power called beacon, where by using it, PCs -allowed- you to contact them via the way using their names. Beacon would be just like barrier, in that it persisted for a while or until you used cease, but it would have the advantage of turning it off.

I think having the option, of you so choose, to "Addkeyword" would be fine.

I personally wouldnt do it, but if someone wanted to, more power to them I guess.

No. For a bunch of reasons.

Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2008, 04:21:14 PM
No. For a bunch of reasons.

Give us a few?

Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2008, 04:21:14 PM
No. For a bunch of reasons.

Probably a good idea to offer some of those reasons.

Furthermore, I believe that Desertman is referring to mundane functions with his idea. Any non-mundane class that uses names is probably not the point of his idea.

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 17, 2008, 04:22:44 PM

Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2008, 04:21:14 PM
No. For a bunch of reasons.

Give us a few?

3. Unnecessary burden on people who need to be contacted by their names. Don't make the lives of leaders harder than they already are.

Red Storm, on the Road:
keyword figure
(in the room)
1. The tall figure in the dark hooded cloak
2. The figure in the dark hooded cloak
3. The short figure in the dark hooded cloak
4. The figure in the dark hooded cloak
5. The tall figure in the dark hooded cloak
6. The figure in the dark hooded cloak
7. The short figure in the dark hooded cloak
8. The figure in the dark hooded cloak

tell john (waving) Hello!
No such thing.
tell figure (waving) Hello!
The tall figure in the dark hooded cloak ignores you, since he's an NPC.
tell 2.figure (waving) Hello!
and so on and so forth.

Even if half of those people had their hoods down, the odds of most of them NOT having unique keywords between them, are very low.

And for that reason, I'm against it. I want to be able to hug my character's best friend, without hugging a templar who looks absolutely nothing like him whatsoever, simply because I'm not allowed to use his name as a keyword.

1) The Way functions via names.

2) It is far too annoying to refer to people in emotes and commands only via their sdesc.

Hmmm. The emotive problem is a fairly good point. But there should be a way to fix those issues, and still solve the sorts of problems DM describes.

In my years of playing, I've only come across an issue with the name-keyword system once. To me the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.

Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2008, 04:24:05 PM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 17, 2008, 04:22:44 PM

Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2008, 04:21:14 PM
No. For a bunch of reasons.

Give us a few?

3. Unnecessary burden on people who need to be contacted by their names. Don't make the lives of leaders harder than they already are.

For leader pc's with such issues, I think an option "AddKeyWord" feature would be fine.

I'm not against people "CHOOSING TO USE NAMES AS KEYWORDS" I am against it being mandatory.

Big difference.

I would be just as much against people being forced NOT to use names as keywords.

Quote from: Yam on September 17, 2008, 04:35:35 PM
In my years of playing, I've only come across an issue with the name-keyword system once. To me the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.

I came it across it four times that I can distinctley recall with a recent PC.

More times before that.

But people seem to be missing the point.

I think a lot of you are thinking I am saying...

"You shouldnt be allowed to use your name as a keyword."

Thats not the issue...

If you want to, go ahead.

I am saying that I believe it shouldnt be mandatory that you HAVE to use your name as a keyword.

If you dont want to, you shouldnt have to.

If you want to, you should have the ability.

I think you should be able to remember people's names.
So in your character file you would have the associations.

That way if there are 4 Amoses (Amosi?) is the tavern, and you emoted to one, only the one that you knew would be targetable.

You have no idea of the other players names, so no way to target them by name.

Quote from: Yam on September 17, 2008, 04:25:37 PM
1) The Way functions via names.

2) It is far too annoying to refer to people in emotes and commands only via their sdesc.

1) The Way also functions via sdescs, even multiple word sdescs.


2) Personal preference I guess. I find it far more annoying to have people who have never met my pc contacting me because they know my OOC name, or walking up to me in the bazarr out of nowhere because they assessed my name keyword, even though they have never met me.

I'm sorry you're so anti-interaction. Sucks to be you.

Still, no.

I mean that the Way functions, according to the lore, via names. You dial up someone's name and find their mind.

Quote from: Lizzie on September 17, 2008, 04:24:08 PM
Red Storm, on the Road:
keyword figure
(in the room)
1. The tall figure in the dark hooded cloak
2. The figure in the dark hooded cloak
3. The short figure in the dark hooded cloak
4. The figure in the dark hooded cloak
5. The tall figure in the dark hooded cloak
6. The figure in the dark hooded cloak
7. The short figure in the dark hooded cloak
8. The figure in the dark hooded cloak

tell john (waving) Hello!
No such thing.
tell figure (waving) Hello!
The tall figure in the dark hooded cloak ignores you, since he's an NPC.
tell 2.figure (waving) Hello!
and so on and so forth.

Even if half of those people had their hoods down, the odds of most of them NOT having unique keywords between them, are very low.

And for that reason, I'm against it. I want to be able to hug my character's best friend, without hugging a templar who looks absolutely nothing like him whatsoever, simply because I'm not allowed to use his name as a keyword.

I will grant you this, but the instances would be few IMO.

If you have already met...

The pallid, blue-eyed man before...

And he has his hood up...

You can still use...

emote hugs ~pallid.

It still works.

If you have never met the person without their hood up though, I can see where you would have a problem.

How close can you be to someone who's face you have never seen though?

But still, you make a point, for some situations.

I posted this idea in the other thread before realizing that you made another thread:

Why not use a "keyword" that is easier to type than a nickname or truename?  That way, you force people to use the keyword (since it's faster to type).
i.e.

Hi, I'm Tektolnes.
addkeyword fff
OOC Just use fff if you want to refer to me quickly.

Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2008, 04:44:42 PM
Sucks to be you.

First of all, that isnt needed.


Secondly, I'm not anti-interaction, but a lot of my "naughty" pc's are exactly that, anti-interaction.

MANY un-lawful pc's are anti-interaction, and many un-lawful pc's get screwed due to the fact it is mandatory that they have a "name" as a keyword.

Quote from: Yam on September 17, 2008, 04:45:15 PM
I mean that the Way functions, according to the lore, via names. You dial up someone's name and find their mind.

So what's keeping us from contacting the mutitudes of VNPC characters that just so happen to have the same name as the person you're trying to contact?

Like, you try to contact Amos, but there are five other PCs named Amos, and Tek knows how many NPCs and VNPCs.

That might already be built into the code.

Quote from: Yam on September 17, 2008, 04:45:15 PM
I mean that the Way functions, according to the lore, via names. You dial up someone's name and find their mind.

I wasnt able to find anything in the documentation on this.

Of course my access is limited right now.

Would someone find me where it says this in the docs?

Quote from: Desertman on September 17, 2008, 04:49:08 PM

MANY un-lawful pc's are anti-interaction, and many un-lawful pc's get screwed due to the fact it is mandatory that they have a "name" as a keyword.

Yeah, I've all but given up on trying to play sneakies and unlawfuls because of this.

I hate sdesc sniffing.  :'(

Quote from: Yam on September 17, 2008, 04:51:59 PM
That might already be built into the code.

I've seen very little evidence to support this IG.

Quote from: Desertman on September 17, 2008, 04:52:36 PM

Quote from: Yam on September 17, 2008, 04:45:15 PM
I mean that the Way functions, according to the lore, via names. You dial up someone's name and find their mind.

I wasnt able to find anything in the documentation on this.

Of course my access is limited right now.

Would someone find me where it says this in the docs?

It's not in the public docs anymore.

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 17, 2008, 04:49:47 PM

Quote from: Yam on September 17, 2008, 04:45:15 PM
I mean that the Way functions, according to the lore, via names. You dial up someone's name and find their mind.

So what's keeping us from contacting the mutitudes of VNPC characters that just so happen to have the same name as the person you're trying to contact?

Like, you try to contact Amos, but there are five other PCs named Amos, and Tek knows how many NPCs and VNPCs.

The code checks people who are online first, then npcs.  Why?  Because the function of the way, codedly.


From a game design point of view, the way removes the 'global who' command, as well as mailboxes in the city centers.  It helps make the game unique.  It still helps you log into the game, and find your friends online, and go adventuring with them.

Names must always be keywords.  If you're upset about some name, just make it generic, if you want to.  Why do you think there's always a 'shade' or a 'shadow' or a 'grey' nicknamed character in the 'rinth?  Because it's simple keywords that help disguise people.

They will never remove the 'name' keyword from the game.  It will make the game impossible to target anyone with a 100% success rate.

Ever tried to rp a scene with two or more cloaked figures who's names you didn't know?
Ever tried to rp in a room with multiple people with the same keyword whose names you didn't know?

I would never want to inflict that on anyone.  I want a reliable method of targeting people in the game.
For every time you can come up with an anecdote about having name for a keyword being unrealistic, I can come up with one where not having a name for a keyword is unrealistic.

As long as keywords are necessary for interaction, wanting to remove them so that your raider will be harder to target isn't really going to be reason enough. As numerous people have said, the inconvenience would out weight the potential benefits.

Quote from: staggerlee on September 17, 2008, 05:05:08 PM
Ever tried to rp a scene with two or more cloaked figures who's names you didn't know?
Ever tried to rp in a room with multiple people with the same keyword whose names you didn't know?

I would never want to inflict that on anyone.  I want a reliable method of targeting people in the game.
For every time you can come up with an anecdote about having name for a keyword being unrealistic, I can come up with one where not having a name for a keyword is unrealistic.

As long as keywords are necessary for interaction, wanting to remove them so that your raider will be harder to target isn't really going to be reason enough. As numerous people have said, the inconvenience would out weight the potential benefits.

Ever been tempted to put, "his face completely concealed by the huge face-concealing mask, and his body completely covered by the ample cloak so there's no possible way you can identify him at all unless you're a psion or magicker" in an emote?

I mean, really.

I'm not saying that the inconvenience wouldn't outweigh the benefits, but I'd imagine a compromise could be reached somewhere....

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 17, 2008, 05:16:02 PM

Quote from: staggerlee on September 17, 2008, 05:05:08 PM
Ever tried to rp a scene with two or more cloaked figures who's names you didn't know?
Ever tried to rp in a room with multiple people with the same keyword whose names you didn't know?

I would never want to inflict that on anyone.  I want a reliable method of targeting people in the game.
For every time you can come up with an anecdote about having name for a keyword being unrealistic, I can come up with one where not having a name for a keyword is unrealistic.

As long as keywords are necessary for interaction, wanting to remove them so that your raider will be harder to target isn't really going to be reason enough. As numerous people have said, the inconvenience would out weight the potential benefits.

Ever been tempted to put, "his face completely concealed by the huge face-concealing mask, and his body completely covered by the ample cloak so there's no possible way you can identify him at all unless you're a psion or magicker" in an emote?

I mean, really.

I'm not saying that the inconvenience wouldn't outweigh the benefits, but I'd imagine a compromise could be reached somewhere....

Learn to hide?

Quote from: mansa on September 17, 2008, 05:18:02 PM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 17, 2008, 05:16:02 PM

Quote from: staggerlee on September 17, 2008, 05:05:08 PM
Ever tried to rp a scene with two or more cloaked figures who's names you didn't know?
Ever tried to rp in a room with multiple people with the same keyword whose names you didn't know?

I would never want to inflict that on anyone.  I want a reliable method of targeting people in the game.
For every time you can come up with an anecdote about having name for a keyword being unrealistic, I can come up with one where not having a name for a keyword is unrealistic.

As long as keywords are necessary for interaction, wanting to remove them so that your raider will be harder to target isn't really going to be reason enough. As numerous people have said, the inconvenience would out weight the potential benefits.

Ever been tempted to put, "his face completely concealed by the huge face-concealing mask, and his body completely covered by the ample cloak so there's no possible way you can identify him at all unless you're a psion or magicker" in an emote?

I mean, really.

I'm not saying that the inconvenience wouldn't outweigh the benefits, but I'd imagine a compromise could be reached somewhere....

Learn to hide?

That's beside the point. Besides, it's hard to raid people and stay hidden at the same time.

Without killing them, of course.

Which is what I'd like to do, raid without killing people.

But I can't.

Because I'd be a very short-lived, or very isolated raider if I let 'em go alive.

If it is sooo bad, I would prefer a command to turn off one of the keywords that -you- added, than to not have that keyword at all. Even that I have problems with though. I've been in way too many bar scenes where twelve+ sets of people have the same keywords and you don't want to type out "clandestine" to interact with the only "amos" in the bar. Drives me up the wall.

Being able to turn off your added keywords would be marginally better to me than saying "Oh, yea, you don't have to have a name as a keyword."

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 17, 2008, 05:16:02 PM



Ever been tempted to put, "his face completely concealed by the huge face-concealing mask, and his body completely covered by the ample cloak so there's no possible way you can identify him at all unless you're a psion or magicker" in an emote?

I mean, really.

I'm not saying that the inconvenience wouldn't outweigh the benefits, but I'd imagine a compromise could be reached somewhere....

I'd identify you as the excruciatingly suspicious masked man wearing lots of layers and standing out like a sore thumb.  But I don't want to have to type that out to say hi. ;)
And I should still be able to tell you apart from the naked, masked dwarf and the tall masked elf with six arms.

If you're a raider in a world of telepaths, don't expect to be able to set foot near civilization.

Quote from: Yam on September 17, 2008, 05:23:39 PM
If you're a raider in a world of telepaths, don't expect to be able to set foot near civilization.

Or learn to barrier?

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 17, 2008, 05:20:35 PM
it's hard to raid people and stay hidden at the same time.

Without killing them, of course.

Which is what I'd like to do, raid without killing people.

But I can't.

Because I'd be a very short-lived, or very isolated raider if I let 'em go alive.

My problem is right here. While I want to believe you that you'd prefer to not kill victims...and maybe YOU would...I just don't believe this is true of the majority of raiders.

Also, if you really wanted to not kill your victims, you just wouldn't. (General "you" again.)

But this whole argument always comes down to "I want what's good for my character, more than I want what is good for the game."

Quote from: Desertman on September 17, 2008, 04:49:08 PM

Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2008, 04:44:42 PM
Sucks to be you.

First of all, that isnt needed.


Secondly, I'm not anti-interaction, but a lot of my "naughty" pc's are exactly that, anti-interaction.

MANY un-lawful pc's are anti-interaction, and many un-lawful pc's get screwed due to the fact it is mandatory that they have a "name" as a keyword.

The only reason they're getting screwed, is because you are trusting SOMEONE with your character's actual name. If you don't TELL anyone your character's name, then no one will be able to use it. Seems simple enough to me.

Although it is considered ridiculously rude to do so...it is codedly possible to tell everyone your name is Joe, and not have Joe as your keyword. The way to do it, is to not name your character Joe in chargen.

Quote from: staggerlee on September 17, 2008, 05:22:08 PM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 17, 2008, 05:16:02 PM



Ever been tempted to put, "his face completely concealed by the huge face-concealing mask, and his body completely covered by the ample cloak so there's no possible way you can identify him at all unless you're a psion or magicker" in an emote?

I mean, really.

I'm not saying that the inconvenience wouldn't outweigh the benefits, but I'd imagine a compromise could be reached somewhere....

I'd identify you as the excruciatingly suspicious masked man wearing lots of layers and standing out like a sore thumb.  But I don't want to have to type that out to say hi. ;)
And I should still be able to tell you apart from the naked, masked dwarf and the tall masked elf with six arms.

Well, of course I wouldn't wear my raiding gear everywhere. Only when I'm out a-raidin'.

Most everyone would just "look figure" and get my description, and tell their local authority figure as soon as I let them go.

Yet again the introduction code rears its head as a great way to deal with knowing PCs.

If you know that Sam is Sam, then you can use Sam to talk to him. If you do not know that Sam is Sam, and think that he is Riker, you can talk to him. If you have never met Sam, then you can't do any of that.

I have always liked the idea of encouraging face-to-face contact, rather than using the Way nearly exclusively for passing messages and the like. If you want to get hired, go where the Bosses are. If you want to control your minions, take roll call and put foots in their asses because you had to go physically find them.

That said, I suspect that the Way will always be something we deal with, and that's alright.

But with the introduction code, and with the psi skill beacon, all bases are covered.

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 17, 2008, 05:26:55 PM
Most everyone would just "look figure" and get my description, and tell their local authority figure as soon as I let them go.

Uhh...you're a little off-topic, darlin'.

Quote from: Lizzie on September 17, 2008, 05:26:40 PM

Quote from: Desertman on September 17, 2008, 04:49:08 PM

Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2008, 04:44:42 PM
Sucks to be you.

First of all, that isnt needed.


Secondly, I'm not anti-interaction, but a lot of my "naughty" pc's are exactly that, anti-interaction.

MANY un-lawful pc's are anti-interaction, and many un-lawful pc's get screwed due to the fact it is mandatory that they have a "name" as a keyword.

The only reason they're getting screwed, is because you are trusting SOMEONE with your character's actual name. If you don't TELL anyone your character's name, then no one will be able to use it. Seems simple enough to me.

Although it is considered ridiculously rude to do so...it is codedly possible to tell everyone your name is Joe, and not have Joe as your keyword. The way to do it, is to not name your character Joe in chargen.

That'd be okay as long as you only used the name briefly, or used different names.  But if you're consistently introducing yourself with the same name, you should probably add it to your keywords.

Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2008, 05:29:27 PM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 17, 2008, 05:26:55 PM
Most everyone would just "look figure" and get my description, and tell their local authority figure as soon as I let them go.

Uhh...you're a little off-topic, darlin'.

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 17, 2008, 05:26:55 PM
Most everyone would just "contact figure" and get my short description, and tell their local authority figure as soon as I let them go.

Fixed?

I think Gimf summed up the thread just fine.

If you don't want people using your name as a keyword, don't tell people your name.
Use a nickname.   A keyword, perhaps.  You can make as many of them as you want, using the addkeyword command.

Keywords are an OOC tool to interact with the playerbase.  There are commands that help you find keywords in a room, too!  keyword <keyword> will give you a list.

There are coded skills that help you become a better raider or thief.   Sneak, Hide, Barrier, Poisons, Sap, etc.  Become creative!  Look to "Bushman" as an example of a single mundane raider who couldn't be stopped.


As per the MAGICK documents, when you know a TRUENAME, you have power over them.  Infer mysterious magickal things from that.  Also, nosave polymorph lets you turn into a sheep without rolling a saving throw.

Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2008, 05:29:27 PM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 17, 2008, 05:26:55 PM
Most everyone would just "look figure" and get my description, and tell their local authority figure as soon as I let them go.

Uhh...you're a little off-topic, darlin'.

Maybe he's not?  :D  I propose that this happened:


You walk north, holding a bag of money.
The menacing, cloaked figure runs in from the east.
The menacing, cloaked figure shouts "Give me all your money!!!"
You frown.
>Contact Qzzrbl
You contact the menacing, cloaked figure
>psi HA! I knew it was you!

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 17, 2008, 05:33:09 PM
Fixed?

This thread is about names as keywords. You're on a totally different topic with the "contact figure" issue. Which as mansa mentioned is not that hard to get around.

Quote from: staggerlee on September 17, 2008, 05:34:36 PM

Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2008, 05:29:27 PM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 17, 2008, 05:26:55 PM
Most everyone would just "look figure" and get my description, and tell their local authority figure as soon as I let them go.

Uhh...you're a little off-topic, darlin'.

Maybe he's not?  :D  I propose that this happened:


You walk north, holding a bag of money.
The menacing, cloaked figure runs in from the east.
The menacing, cloaked figure shouts "Give me all your money!!!"
You frown.
>Contact Qzzrbl
You contact the menacing, cloaked figure
>psi HA! I knew it was you!

Here we go.

Much thanks Stagger.  ;D

Playing a successful raider, or thief, or burglar, or assassin, or noble, or templar, or bard...is much the same. They all need the same skill that isn't on your character's skill sheet.

Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2008, 05:26:20 PM

But this whole argument always comes down to "I want what's good for my character, more than I want what is good for the game."

One might argue its better for the game to have a raider who goes on to raid ten more people and cause ten more really cool scenes...instead of dieing after the first scene, due to sdesc sniffing, because he let that sdesc sniffer live.

My solution has always been...

If they "look" at me, I kill them. I let them know..."Keep your eyes on the ground or you lose them."

If they are stupid enough to look at me anyways, I kill them.

If I get..."Your barrier is smashed!"...(I always use barrier when I raid)...I kill them, if it wasnt them, thats just bad luck, sorry friend.

Also, bludgeoning weapons are the non-lethal raider's best friend.

When you are a raider, IMO, it is sort of your responsibility to use bludgeoning weapons.

I have had people not look at me, and not contact me via the Way, but still try to resist or run, and because they didnt sdesc sniff me, I have let them live, even after knocking them out.

Be curteous to raiders, they will be curteous to you...well, you know what I mean. Curteous = Leaving you naked, but alive and naked.

Quote from: mansa on September 17, 2008, 05:33:54 PM
I think Gimf summed up the thread just fine.

If you don't want people using your name as a keyword, don't tell people your name.
Use a nickname.   A keyword, perhaps.  You can make as many of them as you want, using the addkeyword command.

Keywords are an OOC tool to interact with the playerbase.  There are commands that help you find keywords in a room, too!  keyword <keyword> will give you a list.

There are coded skills that help you become a better raider or thief.   Sneak, Hide, Barrier, Poisons, Sap, etc.  Become creative!  Look to "Bushman" as an example of a single mundane raider who couldn't be stopped.


As per the MAGICK documents, when you know a TRUENAME, you have power over them.  Infer mysterious magickal things from that.  Also, nosave polymorph lets you turn into a sheep without rolling a saving throw.

AND:

Quote from: Gimfalisette on September 17, 2008, 05:41:25 PM
Playing a successful raider, or thief, or burglar, or assassin, or noble, or templar, or bard...is much the same. They all need the same skill that isn't on your character's skill sheet.

These bear repeating.
That's your key to playing a criminal on this or any MUD.  It works.  Kind of like the thieves bible only spelled out real simple. :D 

You might be the best "thief" in the world, but if you botch one failed attempt after 100 succsessful attempts, and someone recognizes you as "Jack"...

The next day you have an IC Rumor Board post labeling you as Jack.

The day after that you have...fifty of these, constantly...

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

A foreign presence withdraws from your mind.

What if you just removed some of the more blatant keywords from the list of words that can be used for contact.

contact figure
Invalid target

I mean the list of sensitive keywords is pretty small.

figure
cloaked
dark
hooded
facewrap

Names should always be a keyword, IMO. Can it be abused? Sure...just like alot of things. I've ran into many situations where it was the only way that I would've been able to target someone I know and should easily be able to without complication where it would have been an enormous hassle if I couldn't target them using their name.

Names as keywords in crowded rooms or in large groups are a fucking godsend.

Desertman:
Don't tell people you are jack
Use barrier
Don't steal in public places unless you know your an awesome thief
Steal in areas where people won't recognize you

Problem solved

Quote from: mansa on September 17, 2008, 06:48:45 PM
Desertman:
Don't tell people you are jack

That is strangely similar to just not having my name as a keyword to begin with.

If my name is Jack, but I tell everyone my name is Larry...

Well, its the same thing as never having my name as a keyword at all.

I guess that works for me.

Quote from: Desertman on September 18, 2008, 12:03:06 AM

Quote from: mansa on September 17, 2008, 06:48:45 PM
Desertman:
Don't tell people you are jack

That is strangely similar to just not having my name as a keyword to begin with.

If my name is Jack, but I tell everyone my name is Larry...

Well, its the same thing as never having my name as a keyword at all.

I guess that works for me.

You're missing the point again. If you're consistently using a name, you need to add it as a keyword.
If you just make up meaningless names and throw them around or don't give a name at all you're okay.  But people are going to want to oocly kill you if you consistently go by a name that doesn't work as a keyword, and I think the staff have said they've added keywords for people in those circumstances before.

People having a name that is not a keyword can be abused as well. Such as giving a fake name and people getting OOCly suspicious because they "l amos" and nothing happens.  :-\

Quote from: Vessol on September 18, 2008, 03:43:48 AM
People having a name that is not a keyword can be abused as well. Such as giving a fake name and people getting OOCly suspicious because they "l amos" and nothing happens.  :-\

I've always said that, if nothing else, add any name you give someone as a keyword for your own sake.  There's less OOC suspicion when they can immediately reference you by a name you've given, and if your character's giving out fake names, I assume there'd be good reason to avoid being suspicious.

I'd always thought it could be nice if you could remove your own keywords when you're through with them, and not only for the purposes of nicknames that a burglar might put on and shed like a new set of clothes.  For instance, once I changed my sdesc from 'the lithe something or other' to 'the something else or other'.  Now, for some reason my keyword was still lithe, which really sucked whenever I was in the room with a person who -was- lithe, especially since there was another one in my clan at the time.  And there were a lot of other randomly lithe people at this time, too... it was just one of those keywords.  The mistargets were crazy.  (The staff did eventually fix it for me, though.)

As long as it would prevent people from removing keywords that are their truename or in their sdesc, I think this would be pretty cool.  Maybe your 'rinthi burglar identifies by 'Quick-fingers' one week, gets caught, someone starts spreading rumors that this Quick-fingers guy is a crappy burglar... and he decides to no longer go by that alias.  Starts calling himself 'Jozhal-foot'.  I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be able to disassociate himself from his 'Quick-fingers' identity.  I know there are nicknames I personally have had that I would never answer to if someone called them out in a crowd (or in this instance, tried to find me psychically by ;) )

I feel this would be a better solution than making name keywords optional - giving people the option to add and remove nicknames by themselves.

I would like to see the ability to Contact <Addkeyword> taken out of the game if thats the case.

If its not your TRUE NAME then someone who has never met you trying to "Dial" in to your brain via an alias doesnt really make sense.

If I told Bob in a tavern that my name was Larry, and my real name was Jack...

Then Bob goes and tells Herman that Larry can provide him with spice...

I dont want Herman to be able to Contact Larry and find my mind.

That doesnt make any sense at all. It isnt even my real name, why is he able to "Pick up my brain" using a name that isnt even my real name.

Maybe the only person in the world that knows me by Larry is Bob, but if I see Bob often, apparently I am required to Addkeyword Larry, so that Bob's player wont have to type so much.

Horsecrap.

I think that this would be better to look at for Armageddon Reborn, if at all.

I wish I had a nickel for every time I told someone my name and they looked at me to confirm it.

At least some players are suave enough to do their OOC picking with assess.

Seriously.  I'd take us all out to dinner.  At some fancy-pants place.

Quote from: LittleLostThief on September 18, 2008, 04:11:31 PM
I wish I had a nickel for every time I told someone my name and they looked at me to confirm it.

At least some players are suave enough to do their OOC picking with assess.

Seriously.  I'd take us all out to dinner.  At some fancy-pants place.

Join the club man.

Every time this happens...


You say to the blue-eyed man in southern-accented sirihish, "Hi there pal, I'm Steve."

You notice the blue-eyed man glance your way.


I just want to type...

AssRape blue

In fact, I think we should implement that code change.

New Ability...

AssRape

When you find someone abusing name keywords simply to see if they can ic'ly "Trust You", you should be able to type..."Assrape <keyword>" and then this scene would unfold..

The burly well-endowed mul has arrived from above.

The burly well-endowed mul gets extremely graphic in ways that I can only describe as deeply pornographic with the blue-eyed man for being a keyword sniffer.

The blue-eyed man cries out piteously and learns a lesson about being a douche.

(Please note, the above, while malicious in nature, was indeed a joke, I dont actually propose such a code.)

> key steve

I check keywords after I receive them. It's so that I don't have to type out my emotes a dozen times when I discover that I misspelled your name.

Quote from: staggerlee on September 18, 2008, 04:53:45 PM
I check keywords after I receive them. It's so that I don't have to type out my emotes a dozen times when I discover that I misspelled your name.

Quote from: staggerlee on September 18, 2008, 04:53:45 PM
I check keywords after I receive them. It's so that I don't have to type out my emotes a dozen times when I discover that I misspelled your name.

I have characters with names like John, Bill, and Frank.

It happens to them as well, especially if I have rinthi accent.

If someone doesnt know if they are spelling Bill correctly, they dont belong in an all text game. Especially one like Armageddon.

But yeah, I see your point just the same.

Quote from: brytta.leofa on September 18, 2008, 04:53:05 PM
> key steve

Oh, the AssRape code should also be useable over the Way...

Any time I get this message...

A foreign presence contacts your mind.

The blue-eyed man sends you a telepathic message:
"Are you Mouse?"

psi AssRape

The image of the blue-eyed man wavers in your thoughts and extreme pain, particularly in the anus, travels through your telepathic link.

Sorry. I just don't like it. I shouldn't need for Faithful Lord Jimbob to TELL me his name is Faithful Lord Jimbob, for me to be able to find Faithful Lord Jimbob's mind after having met with him, spoken with him, sat at his table, and bought him a glass of wine. Just because he didn't use the introduce command to tell me his name, I should somehow NOT know that's his name, not be able to use his name as a keyword? C'mon. That's silly. If I have heard of someone, and can identify him in a crowd, then I shouldn't have to wait for him to tell me his name in order to use it as a keyword. And the opposite - I shouldn't have to -not- use Jimbob's keyword Jimbob, just because my -character- doesn't know him, but I do, and he is the tall muscular templar and there's 4 templars in the room and everyone there has some version of tall, or muscular, or man. I want THAT one. I shouldn't need a formal introduction. Especially if my character is trying to -get- a formal introduction. If *I* the player know the guy's name, I should be able to use it as a keyword. The end.

Quote from: Lizzie on September 18, 2008, 05:06:50 PM
Sorry. I just don't like it. I shouldn't need for Faithful Lord Jimbob to TELL me his name is Faithful Lord Jimbob, for me to be able to find Faithful Lord Jimbob's mind after having met with him, spoken with him, sat at his table, and bought him a glass of wine. Just because he didn't use the introduce command to tell me his name, I should somehow NOT know that's his name, not be able to use his name as a keyword? C'mon. That's silly. If I have heard of someone, and can identify him in a crowd, then I shouldn't have to wait for him to tell me his name in order to use it as a keyword. And the opposite - I shouldn't have to -not- use Jimbob's keyword Jimbob, just because my -character- doesn't know him, but I do, and he is the tall muscular templar and there's 4 templars in the room and everyone there has some version of tall, or muscular, or man. I want THAT one. I shouldn't need a formal introduction. Especially if my character is trying to -get- a formal introduction. If *I* the player know the guy's name, I should be able to use it as a keyword. The end.

contact tall, muscular templar

Works every time.

I dont mean that to be snarky.

I am really being helpful. You do know you can use multiple keywords with the Way now right?

If you are trying to contact...

The tall muscular templar

You can...

Contact tall muscular templar

And it doesnt matter if there are six...

The tall muscular man's in the room, you will get the templar every time.

You can use entire sdescs now, so you never fail.

The only way I can see to fix this would be to implement a naming system similar to what other muds have.  You meet a person, you can only identify them by the keywords within their sdesc.  If they were to introduce themselves to you, per-say Bob, then you could name assign keyword bob, whatever.  From then on, you'd be known as bob to that person.

In armageddon you're still going to need access to descriptions, so you might want to add a toggleable sdesc control so you could have something like a tall desert-skinned man (Bob) or just Bob.  That or you could always just have it available from assessing or looking at them.

Desertman, I think to address this bounty-hunting problem, I'll just put up a simple solution:

When your PC knows he is being hunted, and decides to change his identity, I think then it would be reasonable to ask the staff to remove your PC's original name from keywords. That is to say, if your PC made the effort to alter his physical appearance.

Otherwise, PC names should remain, for convenience.

Quote from: FightClub on September 19, 2008, 02:29:28 AM
The only way I can see to fix this would be to implement a naming system similar to what other muds have.  You meet a person, you can only identify them by the keywords within their sdesc.  If they were to introduce themselves to you, per-say Bob, then you could name assign keyword bob, whatever.  From then on, you'd be known as bob to that person.

In armageddon you're still going to need access to descriptions, so you might want to add a toggleable sdesc control so you could have something like a tall desert-skinned man (Bob) or just Bob.  That or you could always just have it available from assessing or looking at them.

And if someone who is close to Bob TELLS you Bob's name is Bob, and Bob's name really IS Bob...and he answers to Bob...you are NOT able to use Bob as his name, why exactly? Just because Bob didn't tell you himself? C'mon. People don't wear name-tags, people introduce other people. Important people don't normally introduce themselves. They have aides and concubines and favorite whores and other lesser beings do the introductions on their behalf. If Aide Sue says "Lord Joe, please meet Mary of Salarr. Mary, this is Lord Joe." then no one should need to do a damned thing. In fact, everyone at the same table should know, just by that one sentence, that Mary is Mary, and Joe is Joe.

I hate the introduction systems in other games, because they are clunky, and about as much fun to roleplay as sitting in a Salarr shop waiting for a solid-gold codpiece to go on sale.

Quote from: Lizzie on September 19, 2008, 09:04:20 AM

Quote from: FightClub on September 19, 2008, 02:29:28 AM
The only way I can see to fix this would be to implement a naming system similar to what other muds have.  You meet a person, you can only identify them by the keywords within their sdesc.  If they were to introduce themselves to you, per-say Bob, then you could name assign keyword bob, whatever.  From then on, you'd be known as bob to that person.

In armageddon you're still going to need access to descriptions, so you might want to add a toggleable sdesc control so you could have something like a tall desert-skinned man (Bob) or just Bob.  That or you could always just have it available from assessing or looking at them.

And if someone who is close to Bob TELLS you Bob's name is Bob, and Bob's name really IS Bob...and he answers to Bob...you are NOT able to use Bob as his name, why exactly? Just because Bob didn't tell you himself? C'mon. People don't wear name-tags, people introduce other people. Important people don't normally introduce themselves. They have aides and concubines and favorite whores and other lesser beings do the introductions on their behalf. If Aide Sue says "Lord Joe, please meet Mary of Salarr. Mary, this is Lord Joe." then no one should need to do a damned thing. In fact, everyone at the same table should know, just by that one sentence, that Mary is Mary, and Joe is Joe.

I hate the introduction systems in other games, because they are clunky, and about as much fun to roleplay as sitting in a Salarr shop waiting for a solid-gold codpiece to go on sale.

Its very simple...The next time you are in a room with Bob, and your friend told you his name was Bob..you then:

keyword man Bob

You have added 'Bob' as a keyword for the Tall muscular man

You would then be able to

Contact Bob

To find Bob's mind instead of having to:

contact tall muscular man

(Since three words are so much harder than one and would simply cripple our ability to play Armageddon if we were forced to use sdescs instead of names)

The next time you are in a room with Bob you would be able to emote with Bob using Bob as a keyword.

Its very simple, if you ever find yourself in a room with someone, and you hear their name, either over a conversation they are having, or they tell you themselves, or you know from a buddy who pointed them out to you, you just...

keyword Man Bob

Yes, you will have to be in the room with the person at some point to use their name as a keyword, which is fine by me.

That will keep people who have never even seen me before physically, from contacting me. Which is pretty damn silly.

If you havent laid your own eyes on me, just because you heard the name Amos in a bar from a drunk guy, doesnt mean you should be able to link directly to my mind. Its stupid.

So instead of:
"Oh yeah, Sergeant Malik does the recruiting for the Byn, he's a big rough looking fellow with one eye and a mean temper."

You'll get:
"Oh yeah, Sergeant Malik does the recruiting for the Byn. He's the tall, muscular man."

No thanks.  I try to avoid describing people by sdesc, it's jarring and makes me feel like I'm playing a H&S or something.

Quote from: Desertman on September 19, 2008, 10:57:18 AM
Its very simple...The next time you are in a room with Bob, and your friend told you his name was Bob..you then:

keyword man Bob

You have added 'Bob' as a keyword for the Tall muscular man

You would then be able to

Contact Bob

To find Bob's mind instead of having to:

contact tall muscular man

(Since three words are so much harder than one and would simply cripple our ability to play Armageddon if we were forced to use sdescs instead of names)

The next time you are in a room with Bob you would be able to emote with Bob using Bob as a keyword.

Its very simple, if you ever find yourself in a room with someone, and you hear their name, either over a conversation they are having, or they tell you themselves, or you know from a buddy who pointed them out to you, you just...

keyword Man Bob

Yes, you will have to be in the room with the person at some point to use their name as a keyword, which is fine by me.

That will keep people who have never even seen me before physically, from contacting me. Which is pretty damn silly.

If you havent laid your own eyes on me, just because you heard the name Amos in a bar from a drunk guy, doesnt mean you should be able to link directly to my mind. Its stupid.

QFT.

Also, Bob can:

>beacon
You open your mind to those looking for you.

>cease
You close your mind.

...and lo and behold, you can contact Bob if he wants you to, having met him or not.

I dont really like the beacon concept.

My main gripe here is people being able to "Contact" me even though they have never once laid their eyes on me.

Just because you hear the name Amos in a bar doesnt mean you should be able to link directly to my head from half way across the world even though you have never ONCE even glanced me in a market place.

So with the "Keyword" concept...

You would be FORCED to have actually been in a room with them, as in, got atleast half a good look at them, in order to link directly to their mind when they are half way across the world from you.

No more contacting people you have never even seen before.

It makes zero sense.


The drunken-old beggar says in slurred sirihish, "Hey...HEY!!!!...You knows...you can buys some pretteh ghood armers from that guy Jack."

You think:
Oh, thats nice, I need armor.

You contact Jack with the Way. (Who you have never met/seen before)

You send a telepathic message to Jack:
Hey Jack, I hear you can get me some sweet armor.

How does that make any sense to you people?

Sure it does. The way is something people go into with a name and persona in mind. There is no reason that they shouldn't be able to contact you if you have your beacon up. If you go in a room and somebody tells you to find a key with the words Tufstuf on the fob, you'll find it, even if you have to spend some time searching for it. But if it is right out in the middle of the room, with a light beaming directly on it, you'll find it faster. Hense the beacon. And via your own concept, if someone sends you in that room to get that key for the fourth time, and you already found it before, you'll go right to it.

Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on September 19, 2008, 11:40:57 AM
Sure it does. The way is something people go into with a name and persona in mind. There is no reason that they shouldn't be able to contact you if you have your beacon up. If you go in a room and somebody tells you to find a key with the words Tufstuf on the fob, you'll find it, even if you have to spend some time searching for it. But if it is right out in the middle of the room, with a light beaming directly on it, you'll find it faster. Hense the beacon. And via your own concept, if someone sends you in that room to get that key for the fourth time, and you already found it before, you'll go right to it.

What if there were 25 keys with Tufstuf on the fob...how would you know which key was the right key?

Do you think you are the only person in the world with the name Amos?

What if you arent even named Amos and its just an alias keyword you have because you told the drunk beggar a year ago your name was Amos?

It doesnt make any sense.

A 'Beacon' concept isnt a 'Bad' idea, its a step in the right direction I give you that.

Ehh, I'm sorta adjusting for the idea of playability. Aside from those who do not want to be instantly identifiable, the system we have now is the best. But it holds a measure of hinderance to certian people, and for certian concepts. With your idea and mine together, I no longer think anyone is hindered.

7DV:

I don't understand what beacon would add that Barrier doesn't.  Beacon would have a cost to keep up and allow you to be contacted, Barrier has a cost to keep up and stops you from being contacted.  Basically you can already do what you're asking for within the current code.  

Unless you want beacon to allow selective traffic.  I don't really see Barrier operating like a Firewall though, you can't share your public key with a dozen people and block other traffic out, most people just aren't competent enough with the Way for that to happen.  I would see that as entering advanced psionics and something that most don't know how to do, or even have the ability to learn.

Finally, using a skill to open your mind instead of closing it implies a more active use of psionics.  Right now psionics is a force nobody understands, some learn to block it out, but most just live with its most basic functions.  Having to open your mind to receive messages  implies a deliberate training and manipulation of it.  I'm all for psionics being incredibly basic and uncontrolled on the level of the average user, and the intricacies, tricks and power only coming out in the hands of advanced psionicists.




Psi Barrier   (Communication)

The barrier command will attempt to erect a mental barrier around your character's mind, shielding it from most psionic interference. The duration of a direct mental barrier is dependent upon your character's wisdom attribute and skill proficiency. As with all sustained psionic powers, the cease command will lower the mental barrier.

Syntax:
   barrier

   Note:
   Psionic barrier is affected by your nosave setting. If you have erected
   a mental barrier but have nosave on, your barrier will be automatically
   lowered.

   A thorough understanding of this passive defensive technique is
   essential before learning about any aggressive defensive techniques.

   See also:
   cease, nosave, contact, expel, Psionics


Beacon would offer the mundane task of opening your mind to those who want to contact you but are not familiar with you. Barrier currently means that you do not want to be contacted. There is no middle ground. Because of this, if you barrier and nobody can ever reach you, it indicates to the people of Zalanthas that you are shady or withdrawn.

I am saying that with this method and new skill, the normal state of mind would be one that allows familiar presences in your mind, beacon would allow foreign, and barrier would allow none. The normal state of the mind would be one that allows those who know you and what to look for to reach you, beacon would allow those who never met you to contact you, and barrier would keep everybody out.

Quote from: staggerlee on September 19, 2008, 11:05:01 AM
So instead of:
"Oh yeah, Sergeant Malik does the recruiting for the Byn, he's a big rough looking fellow with one eye and a mean temper."

You'll get:
"Oh yeah, Sergeant Malik does the recruiting for the Byn. He's the tall, muscular man."

No thanks.  I try to avoid describing people by sdesc, it's jarring and makes me feel like I'm playing a H&S or something.

Thank you.  That is precisely my objection to the idea of making names as keywords optional.  I think sdesc's get spoken way too often as it is.

If I ever saw someone say...

"Oh yeah, Sergeant Malik is the tall muscular man."

I would report them to the IMM's for being an asshat.

Plain and simple.

It would happen a few times I'm sure.

I guarantee it wouldnt continue to happen.

Maybe newbies would continue to do it, but any self respecting veteran player wouldnt.

A quick OOC note to the newbie player from another player would usually get them to stop doing it as well.

There are a ton of things people CAN do in Arm right now for abuse, but because we are all pretty good players and have an OOC respect for one another, most of those things arent done.

This wouldnt be any different.

... so in my proposed scenario, how the hell is the newbie supposed to contact the Byn sergeant? 
You've removed the option of contacting them by name and you've just stated that describing someone by their sdesc is abuse.

Sometimes, the only way to find people of a certain clan is to ask around for their names and then spend a lot of time trying to contact them.  Some people just don't visit bars, and maybe your friend Jimmy doesn't share the entirety of both of your playtimes to contact Lord Fancypants Fale and tell him this new bard wants to meet him and discuss employment opportunities. 

In my opinion, it would do a lot more overall harm to the generic player than good for the few sneakies who want to disguise their names regularly.

Quote from: staggerlee on September 19, 2008, 01:34:43 PM
... so in my proposed scenario, how the hell is the newbie supposed to contact the Byn sergeant? 
You've removed the option of contacting them by name and you've just stated that describing someone by their sdesc is abuse.

Byn Sergeants get a new psi ability: newbie_fishing. Allows them to randomly contact characters with under 1 day played.

QuoteYou are Headcruncher, a Sergeant of the clan Tzai Byn

who newbie

Newbies
----------

the tall, muscular man
the tall, muscular woman
the tall, lithe man
the tall, slim woman

There are 4 players currently in the world, other than yourself.

contact malik

You contact the tall, muscular man with the Way.

psi Hey Malik, this is Headcruncher, the Byn Sergeant.  We've got some real nice stock options comin' up for those that join on with us in this new condo development out by Steinhal..

If you say your name is "bob" I believe you should have that as a keyword so I can interact with you. The solution for you to not give them a name is attacking a side effect, not the problem.

The problem as I have recognized it, the problem is not that "You raided guy a, guy b, and guy c."
Guy a told his friend Militiaman g. Militiaman G goes to the bar and looks, using just a keyword, "look Raider." The problem is that Guy A failed his RP check and gave a spot on description of raider.. Then... Militiaman G failed his RP check and abused his knowledge. Militiaman G should get the smack down. He fucked the whole process up. Why did miltiaman G trust guy a so much? Militiaman G should have said, "Was his cloak up? Yea. And you said he had a yellow erdlu? So.. he had blue eyes, a tattoo of a rose under his cloak on his chest.. and he had two obsidian swords... So, basically he was a tall, fat guy named Jasper? Are you fucking crazy? You want me to go catch a guy named after a rock? Was it a fucking rock? Get out of here."




Bottom line: Make your own Decision. Be your own person.
If someone tells you they've seen a raider, ask these questions, and stop believing every PC that says they saw a raider:
Was his hood up?
What kind of cloak did he wear? Was it an Aba, elvencloak, stormcloak, raider's cloak?
How close did he get to him? 10 feet, twenty feet, thirty feet?

If his hood was up, you can almost bet that the raider didn't have any visible facial features.
If he had a storm cloak and his arms, legs, and face were covered up, then you know that Guy a couldn't have seen the rose tattoo on his chest.
If he didn't get very close, you can bet Guy A is crazy. You should jail him for lieing to you and wasting your time.

Quote from: staggerlee on September 19, 2008, 01:34:43 PM
... so in my proposed scenario, how the hell is the newbie supposed to contact the Byn sergeant? 
You've removed the option of contacting them by name and you've just stated that describing someone by their sdesc is abuse.

I know this is going to be a huge shocker...

It would seem they are going to have to actually wait for them to come around.

Is that less convenient than randomly contacting some Byn Sergeant's mind that you have never met before for your pc?

Yes.

Is it more realistic and does it make a lot more sense?

Yes.

Sit your bottom on that barstool, if the Sarge is worth a damn, he will make a run or two a day by the Gaj to see if any potential recruites are about.

Or, ask one of the MANY troopers and runners who are CONSTANTLY in the Gaj to find his mind for you, since they know him personally, and you dont.

Quote from: Shiroi Tsuki on September 19, 2008, 01:46:26 PM
Sometimes, the only way to find people of a certain clan is to ask around for their names and then spend a lot of time trying to contact them.  Some people just don't visit bars, and maybe your friend Jimmy doesn't share the entirety of both of your playtimes to contact Lord Fancypants Fale and tell him this new bard wants to meet him and discuss employment opportunities. 

In my opinion, it would do a lot more overall harm to the generic player than good for the few sneakies who want to disguise their names regularly.

The Way is not Cingular Wireless.

If Lord Fancypants doesnt visit the tavern often, use some IC politics to get close to someone who is close to him, so you can then wiggle your way into an appointment.

Instead of dialing up his mind number and asking him out for a drink, out of the blue, because Joe Beggar gave you his digits at the bar.

If you dont share playtimes with Lord Fancypants, I really dont see how trying to contact him, when he isnt online, is going to be any more productive than using actual conventional means to try and get a meeting with him...Either way, he doesnt have your playtime, and he isnt online.

I was talking about not sharing playtimes simultaneously with both Jimmy, the guy who is supposed to be introducing you and the only one that CAN contact Lord Fancypants, and with Lord Fancypants himself.

It's my opinion it's stupid to make the game harder on a crap ton of people with your proposed system, just to make it easier on a couple of people.  And to make it particularly harder on offpeak players, who already have a really crappy time of trying to get into a clan and trying to make contacts with people as it is.  I'm sorry, but you haven't convinced me that the benefits would outweigh the downsides at all.

'Realism' is a really nice argument, if I want to play RL, but in RL I spend a lot of time sitting pointlessly by myself that I would really rather not replicate in the game world more than I already do.

That said, I've made my points and am done with this topic!  I don't have any more belief that I'm going to convince you than that you're going to convince me.

Like Shiroi, I think I'm doing beating this particular equine corpse.
I did want to add to his statement though that it also punishes players with low play times.   A lot of clan leaders and newbies don't have time to tavern sit waiting for introductions.    Being able to handle that stuff over the Way while going about clan business can be an incredibly important tool for those of us who's play time is limited to a few hours a week.

Why don't we make it to where a character meeting another character decides what keyword to use?

Amos meets Malik, the tall, muscular man. Up to this point, Amos has to use Malik's sdesc to target him. Malik introduces himself as Jak.

Amos types in "Keyword the tall, muscular man; Jak"

Gets the echo, "You now know the tall, muscular man as Jak"

And from then on out, Amos can refer to Malik as Jak, or any other nickname he so chooses to give him.

That's been Desertman's arguement the whole time.

I really should read the entire thread before I post....

But yeah, that way makes the best sense, definitely.

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 19, 2008, 04:19:46 PM
Why don't we make it to where a character meeting another character decides what keyword to use?

Amos meets Malik, the tall, muscular man. Up to this point, Amos has to use Malik's sdesc to target him. Malik introduces himself as Jak.

Amos types in "Keyword the tall, muscular man; Jak"

Gets the echo, "You now know the tall, muscular man as Jak"

And from then on out, Amos can refer to Malik as Jak, or any other nickname he so chooses to give him.

You are receiving all my Karma as a reward for this idea. You win this thread. This is the best idea.

Quote from: Delstro on September 19, 2008, 05:23:40 PM

Quote from: Qzzrbl on September 19, 2008, 04:19:46 PM
Why don't we make it to where a character meeting another character decides what keyword to use?

Amos meets Malik, the tall, muscular man. Up to this point, Amos has to use Malik's sdesc to target him. Malik introduces himself as Jak.

Amos types in "Keyword the tall, muscular man; Jak"

Gets the echo, "You now know the tall, muscular man as Jak"

And from then on out, Amos can refer to Malik as Jak, or any other nickname he so chooses to give him.

You are receiving all my Karma as a reward for this idea. You win this thread. This is the best idea.

HEY THATS MY IDEA!!!

QZZRBL!!!!! You have scorned me again!!! SCOOORRRNNNEEEDDDD!!!!!

I dont care who gets credit, I just want it implemented.

I have always been in favor of doing away with general psionics and having them ONLY available to psions.

Except Barrier, everyone should still have barrier as a way to fight the psionicists.

The Way is nothing more than an IG instant messenger.

Its there for OOC convenience.

Its Cingular Wireless that has been cunningly disguised as being IC, when in fact, its the same damn thing as walking around with a cell phone in your hip pocket.

Call it the Way, its still a cell phone.

I have always been anti-Cingular Wireless in Zalanthas, I probably always will be.

Quote from: Shiroi Tsuki on September 19, 2008, 03:52:45 PM
I was talking about not sharing playtimes simultaneously with both Jimmy, the guy who is supposed to be introducing you and the only one that CAN contact Lord Fancypants, and with Lord Fancypants himself.

It's my opinion it's stupid to make the game harder on a crap ton of people with your proposed system, just to make it easier on a couple of people.  And to make it particularly harder on offpeak players, who already have a really crappy time of trying to get into a clan and trying to make contacts with people as it is.  I'm sorry, but you haven't convinced me that the benefits would outweigh the downsides at all.

'Realism' is a really nice argument, if I want to play RL, but in RL I spend a lot of time sitting pointlessly by myself that I would really rather not replicate in the game world more than I already do.

That said, I've made my points and am done with this topic!  I don't have any more belief that I'm going to convince you than that you're going to convince me.

Armageddon is a hard game.

*shrugs*

Desertman's arguement is that you should not be able to contact people using their name.
He's conceided to being able to contact people with their name AFTER you have introduced yourself to them in game.

I don't agree with the first argument, and see the second one as unneccessary for the same reasons I agree with the current code implementation$

Quote from: staggerlee on September 19, 2008, 03:58:18 PM
Like Shiroi, I think I'm doing beating this particular equine corpse.
I did want to add to his statement though that it also punishes players with low play times.   A lot of clan leaders and newbies don't have time to tavern sit waiting for introductions.    Being able to handle that stuff over the Way while going about clan business can be an incredibly important tool for those of us who's play time is limited to a few hours a week.

I can see that.

I hate that it would inconvenience those who only have a few hours a week to play.

Firstly, if you only have a few hours a week to play, I think you should have the OOC courtesy to not be playing a clan leader to begin with.

But thats a different arguement.

Secondly, if you only have a few hours a week to play then I have to say I dont mind inconveniencing you.

Its not that I dont like you, its that you dont have mass time. It will negatively affect the few hours you are online, thats unfortunate.

What about the people who do have a lot of hours to sit and play? I dont see it hurting them that much.

Since they put in more hours than you, I put them above you. (Not in importance as a human being or anything like that, but for mass-hour gaming reasons. You play less, you arent as important when it comes to determining whats good for the playerbase, you are less affected, because you play, less.)

Quote from: mansa on September 19, 2008, 05:37:24 PM
Desertman's arguement is that you should not be able to contact people using their name.
He's conceided to being able to contact people with their name AFTER you have introduced yourself to them in game.

I don't agree with the first argument, and see the second one as unneccessary for the same reasons I agree with the current code implementation$

It just occured to me, after reading your post, that those of us with psion karma would really be affected by this.

A psion would have to have been in the room with someone at some point in order to contact them, and then use their powers on them.

Hrrrm.

That would put a damper on those of us that like to play uber-powerful-psions.

Maybe the ability to contact someone without ever having met them could be a psion power.

As in, only psions could do it due to thier uber brain powerz.

I don't so much mind having the Way IG, players will find a way to communicate with eachother be it IG or OOC one way or another.

But I'd like to see how the Way works set in stone, so most any proposed idea concerning the Way doesn't get shot down with, "You don't know how the Way works!"

Really, nobody does.

The Way as it is now could use some change, and I think Desertman's idea would be great if implemented. I mean, if you can just focus on someone's name and make contact with them, disregarding EVERY other singular living being on Zalanthas with the same name, that should be something reserved for Psiconists.

Now if you chilled in the Gaj with a guy you've come to know as Amos for a few hours and became good friends with him, that's another story. You have a face to put the name with. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense.

Wow. Start a different topic on why to get rid of the way. That is a different topic after all. That is fucked up Desertman. Just because I play a couple hours after peak American time, you want to make it harder on me to join a clan?

That is fucked up. The way is a Cingular-like system that benefits the game. How does it benefit the game? It keeps people in contact and contact creates RP.

You being able to add keywords to people greatly decreases the negatives of the way. I am for Qzzrbl's idea and not for your idea of getting rid of the way Desertman.

Also, if you play off-peak hours, and you want to join a clan, wish up to the Imms, or write them an e-mail. I'm sure they wouldn't mind helping you out and telling the current clan leaders that there's a new recruit lurking around so they can make active attempts at finding you IG so you guys can meet and get your keywords done and all that other fun stuff. :D

So keeping the Way and implementing the new keyword system wouldn't put too much of a damper on off peak players.

Maybe we could put in a little documentation about why the Way works that way....

When one telepathically inclined individual makes contact with another, the signature telepathic 'scent' of each individual gets stored away in each respective being's brains. Every being with psionic capabilities has a distinct telepathic essence, once that essence has been 'scented' by another telepathically capable being they will from that day forward have the ability to reach out across distances and key in to that specific being's mind and even communicate through such a link.

Or something similar to that. I'm a shit writer.

Quote from: Delstro on September 19, 2008, 05:47:49 PM
Wow. Start a different topic on why to get rid of the way. That is a different topic after all. That is fucked up Desertman. Just because I play a couple hours after peak American time, you want to make it harder on me to join a clan?

That is fucked up. The way is a Cingular-like system that benefits the game. How does it benefit the game? It keeps people in contact and contact creates RP.

You being able to add keywords to people greatly decreases the negatives of the way. I am for Qzzrbl's idea and not for your idea of getting rid of the way Desertman.

That was a passing statement, and not the idea I have presented.

Let me clarify...

I am in favor of getting rid of the Way.

That will never happen.

I am willing to compromise with making the Way only work between two individuals who have actually laid eyes on one another.

(Also, Qzzrbl's idea is the same idea I have been presenting for FOUR threads...so, you DO agree with me and you DO like my idea.  ;)  )

Quote from: Desertman on September 19, 2008, 05:52:21 PM

Quote from: Delstro on September 19, 2008, 05:47:49 PM
Wow. Start a different topic on why to get rid of the way. That is a different topic after all. That is fucked up Desertman. Just because I play a couple hours after peak American time, you want to make it harder on me to join a clan?

That is fucked up. The way is a Cingular-like system that benefits the game. How does it benefit the game? It keeps people in contact and contact creates RP.

You being able to add keywords to people greatly decreases the negatives of the way. I am for Qzzrbl's idea and not for your idea of getting rid of the way Desertman.

That was a passing statement, and not the idea I have presented.

Let me clarify...

I am in favor of getting rid of the Way.

That will never happen.

I am willing to compromise with making the Way only work between two individuals who have actually laid eyes on one another.

(Also, Qzzrbl's idea is the same idea I have been presenting for FOUR threads...so, you DO agree with me and you DO like my idea.  ;)  )

Or used the sniff social *thumbs up*

Quote from: Desertman on September 19, 2008, 05:52:21 PM
Let me clarify...

I am in favor of getting rid of the Way.

That will never happen.

I am willing to compromise with making the Way only work between two individuals who have actually laid eyes on one another.

I think it would be a shame for the Way to change in that fashion. Maybe if I had eight hours a day to sit in a tavern IG and just wait around, I wouldn't object. But I don't, so additional difficulty in Contacting would all but kill most of my interaction. I understand that Zalanthas is a hard world, but that doesn't mean Armageddon has to be a hard game. Why place OOC hardships on the casual player that might chase some away? Do you really only want to interact with PCs whose players have 40 hours a week to devote to Armageddon?

I like the power in names, I just finished reading the first two books of the Eragon cycle and there is alot of emphasis in the strengths of names. Zalanthas has many references and examples of the power of truenames. Perhaps the way could be broken down into something similar? Only with the use of a truename, perhaps another name could be added during creation that was a 'way name'. Almost like giving your subconscious a nickname, or it giving itself a nickname.. either way it would be neat in my eyes. Whereas you would have only those to be used as keywords in finding someone's mind so raider bob wouldn't get a flurry of soldiers contacting him because there was a lumberjack who saw a dude in a red cloak and his raider career being thwarted in an instant.

Who said anything about having to wait in a tavern for hours to find someone?

If you want to find a guy who you can't Way, ask around, make interaction. It's good for the game.

If you don't find him in the first day, people you've asked will tell the guy you're looking for that you're looking for him, they could even find his mind if they know him.