Just doing a little thinking earlier today....
Why does stealing an item directly from another player's inventory always have to be a sneaky thing using the steal skill?
Let's say you're a starving old beggar....
You're hungry....
You're going mad with hunger....
And then you see some bastard walking past you munching on a Big Mac™....
You want that Big Mac™....
So you jump up to your feet and try to snatch it away.
You're not trying to be sneaky.
You're not slowly slipping your hand into his pocket while distracting him with a card trick.
Sure, he'll know you're trying to steal something, and would likely alert the guards immediately, but you've got a chance of getting that Big Mac™.
So, maybe something along the lines of "take [item] from [player]" could work? Maybe base it off of something like the "subdue" code, maybe you'll get that item, maybe you won't. Put a "nosave" on it so if you're in let's say a raiding situation, you don't have to 'give' the item to the raider, he could just take it out of your hands.
Erm, yeah, so there's my idea.
Discuss.
EDIT: And I now realize that the uh.... Spacyness of the post is a wee bit unnecessary, but it adds to the drama of the situation! In my mind at least. So forgive me for that much.
This could simply be RPed out? Subdue, maybe? A succesful one should enable you to take stuff.
Simple enough, if the other player realizes he's a weaker/startled character?
Quote from: Voular on July 14, 2008, 01:52:11 AM
This could simply be RPed out? Subdue, maybe? A succesful one should enable you to take stuff.
Simple enough, if the other player realizes he's a weaker/startled character?
Ehh, but the fact that the player behind the 5-year-old blind/deaf/mute/crippled/armless child could just "emote laughs as you totally don't grab his loaf of bread" makes me a sad Qzzrbl.
EDIT: And I mean... You could always rp out being hungry, or subduing someone, or attacking someone, but those are coded anyhow so.... -shrug-
I'm inclined to agree that subdue would be the best course of action. I believe you can steal from someone you've subdued, and it's the closest thing we have to snatching something right out of somebody's hand. There's also the issue with the inventory system being rather unrealistic and simplified, so I wouldn't like it if there was a less difficult way to forcibly take an item from someone else. One could always try to roleplay it, but that's such an awkward thing to ask someone to play along with if you can't back it up with coded abilities. Maybe if there was a way for us to roll stat or skill values against eachother so that it wasn't entirely up to the goodwill of the victim.
Realistically.... You don't grab someone and render them incapable of running off if you're just going to quickly try to snatch something from them before running away. I mean, that's not how I do it at least....
http://youtube.com/watch?v=L8w-6ojNrHU
Observe..... A raiding situation.
The raider lands a successful "take" check from his victim.
Knock unconscious.
Use steal command.
Sap.
Guards.
Arrestage (or potential mantis head if you no can haz nosave arrest) as attempted KO'd steal is initiated....
Or....
Take.
Guards.
Run.
Potential freedom.
I don't really think warriors should get a glorified steal command.
I don't think this would be something just for warriors.
I don't think that there should be a glorified steal command available to non-thief guilds.
I don't think that when I'm raiding someone and waving a knife in their face, they should have to be so gracious as to type "give item raider". They should feel de-moralized. Like, "Holy balls.... He just took that from me and I didn't give it to him."
I also don't think my starving-to-death beggar needs to be an uber-sneaky quickfingers of doom to even have the slightest chances of ganking that piece of bread from whatever food-carrying face-stuffing-as-he-walks-past man that happens to cross his path without having to subdue/knock out/kill him.
It's a decent idea but such a command has largely been determined to not be viable in 1.arm.
You can go a few pages back and see at least four discussions on this very type of command.
There are plenty of good options to use instead of such a command.
Looking back ten pages, I saw only one discussion even remotely similar to this one (forgive me if I missed any). And it involved having the victim already subdued.
Nothing at all like this idea of walking up and trying to wrestle something out of another's hands.
And any other options I can think of involve killing, knocking out, subduing, steal command, begging, praying that the victim will hand the item over, or outsmarting your target.
Let's say I've got a big dumb ugly merchant that nobody likes, who is starving to death.
He's not a fighter, so killing, knocking out, or subduing is out of the question.
He's not of any thiefy guild, so stealing is out of the question.
He's a total idiot, so outsmarting is out of the question.
Nobody likes him, he has a terrible stutter, he smells bad, and is just overall not a pleasant person who nobody likes. So begging is essentially out of the question.
He is desperate though. There is a man walking by. This walking man has food.
What would be the most natural thing for him to do?
To run up and try to grab a loaf.
This isn't a "steal" thing or a "subdue" thing, it isn't anything that anyone shouldn't be able to try. It actually sounds exactly like the disarm skill.
The only problem, is that currently people aren't -required- to hold/wield their food or drink in order to eat or drink it, and not all foods/drinks are even holdable.
If all foods and drinks were holdable, and if the eat/drink code didn't work without holding/wielding, then this would work great. You would simply try to disarm them. Definitely a consideration for Reborn, yes?
I am definately for Qzzrbl's idea.
The tall,muscular man is standing here.
- He is holding a bag.
- He is holding solid steel breastplate.
- He is holding an orb of solid "Blah".
Those items just kinda scream "Take me!", don't they?
Yeh, this idea sounds great to me, because it gives you a chance to steal the food in one coded action that alarms the guards, rather than subdue/sap followed by the steal, as I do imagine getting piled by guards as soon as you sap/subdue, not giving you a chance to steal the food, wheras this could give you a chance of getting it and escaping, but always alarms the guards yeah?
I like the idea, but only if you make it dangerous.
Give it an 'insane' amount of delay. Like, 15 second delay. Make it so if you fail it, there is a chance that the victim can push you down onto the ground, knock you upside the head injuring you, or even ... knock you out without growing wanted himself. And ofcourse ... it makes you wanted.
Or just make it initiate combat.
And add a random chance of dropping stuff from inventory when you flee. ;)
It would not be a good command if it initiated combat. If you wanted it that bad, you should just attack them in the first place.
It shouldn't have an insane amount of delay, but it should have delay still. I'd be fine with a few seconds delay before initiating the snatch.
Okay why not:
mug (target)
What does this do? Well, you lower your shoulder and fire off an echo like the brawl code...if it hits, they drop whatever it is they are holding that you're aiming for, if it doesn't hit...you're off balance, facing incrim and likely take a free shot to the back of the head or ass.
LARGE delay.
I only say this because I agree with others, there are coded ways around this to a different degree, but also roleplay ways around this as well. But it would only take us back into the fleeing from raiders, non-hidden descriptions because of cloaks/facewraps debate again.
I used to play a hack and slash MUD that had a "snatch" command that was exactly what is being proposed here.
It fucking -sucked-. Thieves were constantly yoink!ing shit and then tossing it in the dumpsters.
I vote nay: playability over realism. The shit would get way out of hand, unless you made the skill difficult to pull off...in which case it would be useless...in which case there would be no point in having the command at all.
Quote from: Synthesis on July 14, 2008, 11:27:18 PM
I used to play a hack and slash MUD that had a "snatch" command that was exactly what is being proposed here.
It fucking -sucked-. Thieves were constantly yoink!ing shit and then tossing it in the dumpsters.
I vote nay: playability over realism. The shit would get way out of hand, unless you made the skill difficult to pull off...in which case it would be useless...in which case there would be no point in having the command at all.
This isn't a hack and slash MUD. I'm just sayin'.
If someone is given warning, ie the start of the skill puts out a spam of "the ugly-looking man is eyeing something in your hands", but doesn't tell you what it is, this works in my mind.
Assuming that they can only steal something in your inventory, when you get yourself holding your large bag, your shiny silver breastplate and your orb of solid 'blah', you've then got to decide what to take a tighter grip on (ie ep or es).
Ergo, if they were trying to pinch your orb, and you held onto it tightly, they'd fail. If they were only going for the tasty sammich, and you're clutching onto that orb, you get one relieved orb-holder, and one slightly less hungry ugly-looking man (the merchant from earlier with no thiefy/warrior/intelligence/etc skills)!
How about, if you attack somebody, they have a chance of dropping any items in their inventory?
Edited to add: Yes, good idea folks :P
Quote from: Spoon on July 15, 2008, 05:18:30 AM
How about, if you attack somebody, they have a chance of dropping any items in their inventory?
Edited to add: Yes, good idea folks :P
Because you don't want to hit them. You just want to snatch their crap and run away.
I like this idea. It could potentially add a lot of color. -And- it stinks of desperation and neediness. None but the most truly desperate buffoon would ever try this.
It's so kool. ;D
I would like to see a half-giant running around and grabbing things, I like.
Quote from: Medivh on August 12, 2008, 04:29:16 PM
I would like to see a half-giant running around and grabbing things, I like.
It wouldn't even have to be a half-giant.
It could be anyone.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on August 13, 2008, 03:11:00 PM
Quote from: Medivh on August 12, 2008, 04:29:16 PM
I would like to see a half-giant running around and grabbing things, I like.
It wouldn't even have to be a half-giant.
It could be anyone.
Which is dumb.
Quote from: Yam on August 13, 2008, 07:20:02 PM
Quote from: Qzzrbl on August 13, 2008, 03:11:00 PM
Quote from: Medivh on August 12, 2008, 04:29:16 PM
I would like to see a half-giant running around and grabbing things, I like.
It wouldn't even have to be a half-giant.
It could be anyone.
Which is dumb.
It's dumb that someone could realistically walk up to you and try to snatch something out of your hands?
Quote from: Qzzrbl on August 18, 2008, 07:20:45 PM
Quote from: Yam on August 13, 2008, 07:20:02 PM
Quote from: Qzzrbl on August 13, 2008, 03:11:00 PM
Quote from: Medivh on August 12, 2008, 04:29:16 PM
I would like to see a half-giant running around and grabbing things, I like.
It wouldn't even have to be a half-giant.
It could be anyone.
Which is dumb.
It's dumb that someone could realistically walk up to you and try to snatch something out of your hands?
Go try that in real life. Purse snatchers prey on little old ladies and young girls for a reason.
Yeah, in real life, it would be realistically played out. In Arm, someone would go in the room, spam the command, and then be 3 rooms away. Realistically, you could probably pull out a sword and stab him.
Quote from: Yam on August 18, 2008, 07:24:49 PM
Quote from: Qzzrbl on August 18, 2008, 07:20:45 PM
Quote from: Yam on August 13, 2008, 07:20:02 PM
Quote from: Qzzrbl on August 13, 2008, 03:11:00 PM
Quote from: Medivh on August 12, 2008, 04:29:16 PM
I would like to see a half-giant running around and grabbing things, I like.
It wouldn't even have to be a half-giant.
It could be anyone.
Which is dumb.
It's dumb that someone could realistically walk up to you and try to snatch something out of your hands?
Go try that in real life. Purse snatchers prey on little old ladies and young girls for a reason.
Yeah, in real life, it would be realistically played out. In Arm, someone would go in the room, spam the command, and then be 3 rooms away. Realistically, you could probably pull out a sword and stab him.
Right. Realistically you could pull out a sword, stab someone, and loot their shit. That's why we're able to do it IG. Realistically, you could try to wrestle an item out of another person's hand on the pain of the someone calling guards on you. And there are little old ladies and young girls to prey on IG too.
Plus, I've wrestled stuff away from other people RL, and sure, it can be hard. But it's not impossible.
Well, I think I'm done with this one. It's been the same argument since I first posted.
I'm not really going to worry about it being implemented. Since it wont.
Good idea though.
A 'snatch' command.
That would snatch something out of the hands of the target. E.g. something that they are holding. Obviously with skills checks and a high chance of failure. Also success/failure should be dependant on the object, and a much lower chance of success if said item is a weapon (a wielded weapon is likely to be clutched onto to more tightly), and a high chance of injury+failure if you try to grab a sharp weapon.
That would be cool.