Because awake and cannot move is no different then asleep and cannot move.

Actually...it is likely worse.


I still will be retconning my own PC though.....The way, Sorry, I never learned how to use it....I have before...Nah man, you must have been on skell or spice.

That isn't how that works X-D and you know that. I think you are making a huge issue to yourself out of it. At this point I'm not convinced you wouldn't push back against it even if the change came with double the Way Juice Points we are currently working with. Seems like complaining for the sake of it.

I personally can't wait to see how the change effects everybody constantly Waying 6 people all at once. If it sucks it sucks and will be adjusted to fix it, but I'm not going to get all salty and whine about it before we've even seen it.

Previously: Way too much, get KO'd completely. Cannot do anything. Scan/watch/guard/whateverthefuck will dig into your pool.

Change: Way too much, get KO'd, but retain sight/hearing. Cannot do anything, but shorter.

If it looks like I'm being flippant, it's because I genuinely, and I mean this, want to try and understand what you are saying, and where the problem is, because I do not see it.

My only thing that might be a concern is with it being related to only wisdom, is to see what the pool looks like, but hopefully that's been looked at and isn't going to be too significantly different then it currently is.

HGs having troubles being able to way ... That's going to suck, but I guess they tend to not have issues getting involved with things because they break stuff good.

It's really hard to say until we see it in practice which is coming very soon.

In my opinion, a couple of the biggest assumed fears are:
1. If it's much like the mana pool, many have seen them from the base area of 50 to 80s. While some have had stun in the 80s most have never seen thr 50s/60s unless you've played old and that can be devastating. That's an initial contact and a couple ways maybe. This can mean less or no interaction for some.
2. What will the regen rate be like and will higher wis mean faster regen too like it was for end?

All that said Staff? Staff have done a great job of finding a compromise from what they were initially rolling out and leaning far more towards what players have brought up.

Quote from: X-D on September 25, 2021, 08:26:05 PM
I still will be retconning my own PC though.....The way, Sorry, I never learned how to use it....I have before...Nah man, you must have been on skell or spice.

You do you, boo.

Quote from: lairos on September 25, 2021, 11:49:41 PM
All that said Staff? Staff have done a great job of finding a compromise from what they were initially rolling out and leaning far more towards what players have brought up.

Yeah I had my main concern around how to play the change and that was addressed quickly. I think it'll be fine. If not I'll complain until Halaster blocks me.

I get amused with people.

Any way...Of course it is still a wait and see. And maybe I should have pointed out that I don't like the way anyway. And that an excuse to not use it is actually a good thing on my end.

BUT...

Even if you have a huge pool and the regen is fast......I can say that I still do not agree with something else that turns a PC into a vegetable. Ever the optimist, I was just hoping for more creative things.

great change. stat balance is also very important in any game design. now wisdom is one step closer to strength.

Hate it.  Even with high wisdom and sitting down, it's practically impossible to carry out a meaningful Way conversation.  Forget about being able to switch minds or multitask.

I hope it gets tweaked.  Anything that makes it harder to have conversations, much less organize meetings or events with other people, cuts down social interaction.  In a social game, that's really annoying.

I'm on the fence if I like it myself.

I kinda like it, but it could use some tweaking as far as recovery/Psi usage. It'd be cool if it was different across classes/races, or had a random chance of being 'better' or 'worse' than other people, so some PCs you might just be terrible at using the way, other PCs, fantastic, and you can help prioritize it with not making wisdom a dump stat.

From what I am seeing it is recovering WAY slower than stun would, which I think should be tweaked upwards to match.

I also started with a much higher focus and then when I used the way the maximum dropped about 30 points. Not sure if that is as intended.

EDIT:

The change has also made the pace of conversation vastly different. While you used to be able to carry along a well-paced conversation similar to talking in person, now you will have to wait much longer intervals before responding, which is a HUGE DRAG for Leadership positions, that often have to juggle multiple conversations and minds to get their job done. Especially with 'You suffer from use of the Way' passively ticking off points by just maintaining contact, it can turn a 5 minute conversation into a 10 minute conversation, a 10 minute conversation into a 15 or 20 minute conversation, with a need to disconnect and take a break before re-establishing contact.

That's a big change and big deal for how business in ArmageddonMUD is maintained and constructed!

This can have a RL impact on a PC, as a login session that might've taken 30 minutes before (a check in with an Aide for instance) turns into an hour. An hour, into an hour and a half or two hours. I personally feel the greatest pain for GMH Merchants, who when I've played them, have upwards of 5 or 6 minds in their head at once, and need to juggle them all.

Please consider changing the Focus Regeneration Rate to be 10 instead of 5, and much more frequently than it is currently to closer match stun regeneration.

Quote from: valeria on September 26, 2021, 01:51:42 PM
Hate it.  Even with high wisdom and sitting down, it's practically impossible to carry out a meaningful Way conversation.  Forget about being able to switch minds or multitask.

I hope it gets tweaked.  Anything that makes it harder to have conversations, much less organize meetings or events with other people, cuts down social interaction.  In a social game, that's really annoying.

This.

Please double the amount of focus points, and then maybe we're talking.

I am seldom this negative but here it is:  I hate this.  It's really going to mess up how I play my current PC who has a ridiculously low focus pool and a ridiculously slow regen time. Perhaps the mana pool could increase over time as one gets better and better at the Way?

I like the presence of a secondary pool of points. That's good. Prevents more abusive things from happening to chars.

What needs a tweak is the amount of passive regen and bonuses from regen by being in a resting state, it's reaaaaaaaaally slow, even with the bonus supposedly provided when resting. Merchantile classes and survival classes could use a decent boost as a class-bonus to it too. Opposite spectrum to how fighter classes get better stun regen.

Regen points are WAAAAYYYYY too slow, the pool is too small, and the drain is too regular.

I like the change but it definitely needs tweaking to be more playable.

Quote from: Delirium on September 26, 2021, 03:56:04 PM
Regen points are WAAAAYYYYY too slow, the pool is too small, and the drain is too regular.

I like the change but it definitely needs tweaking to be more playable.

Even for high wis people?   Wisdom tends to be a dump stat for many people, so I imagine a lot of people with low wisdom ended up being heavily gimped. I'm curious how the high wis people are doing.

Would be cool to make Qel give a vaaaast regeneration bonus to focus.

Maybe other non spice drinks facilitate this as well. Like Mentats enjoying their Sapho Juice in Dune, the Aides might be perpetually holding onto a flask of special tea that helps them use the way for their Employees, but fuck up their strength.

My character has very good wisdom.  The pool is probably fine, but the regen is too slow.

The current functionality is a huge nerf for any social-role player.  It's kind of like having an online job and a slow internet connection.  Since this wasn't advertised as an intended nerf, it doesn't seem to be working as intended.

Max focus is 45% of my max stun points. It's punishing, even if you just use the way to find out who is online and available for interaction.

Quote from: Rashad on September 26, 2021, 06:08:58 PM
Max focus is 45% of my max stun points. It's punishing, even if you just use the way to find out who is online and available for interaction.

Unless you are playing a HG, I just don't believe this. My PC should probably have one of the lowest pools out there and it isn't even an issue. The regen is, but the pool is sizeable enough to be totally fine.

I have a feeling that the game change is also in part to promote in-person meetups instead of having your whole virtual-meeting through the way. If you're having longwinded conversation over the way, you'd be better off having it in-person. If you're juggling conversations and struggling, you might need to start ignoring more people and telling them to meet you at X location. Hiding away in some secluded room exclusively using the way sounds like something a mindworm should be doing instead of the normal noble/commoner.

Quote from: Cabooze on September 26, 2021, 06:44:04 PM
I have a feeling that the game change is also in part to promote in-person meetups instead of having your whole virtual-meeting through the way. If you're having longwinded conversation over the way, you'd be better off having it in-person. If you're juggling conversations and struggling, you might need to start ignoring more people and telling them to meet you at X location. Hiding away in some secluded room exclusively using the way sounds like something a mindworm should be doing instead of the normal noble/commoner.

That's a worthy point for discussion -- But this change was not advertised in that manner, more passively moving psionic actions away from the Stun Points pool, into a new pool called Focus Points. It wasn't mentioned as anything other than that.

If it was intended to nerf Way conversations or anything else, it wasn't put forward to the player base in that manner.

Quote
I have a feeling that the game change is also in part to promote in-person meetups instead of having your whole virtual-meeting through the way. If you're having longwinded conversation over the way, you'd be better off having it in-person. If you're juggling conversations and struggling, you might need to start ignoring more people and telling them to meet you at X location. Hiding away in some secluded room exclusively using the way sounds like something a mindworm should be doing instead of the normal noble/commoner.

What about people that aren't in your part of the game world? Or those that you're just not going to meet face to face? Using the way to get around the language barrier?

If you make communication harder, that's going to slow down and limit everything, not somehow lead to more interaction.

Personally, I quite like the fact of having it seperate from stun.

However, I sincerely hope it will be tweaked on the regen timer.. even with resting and good stats.. it goes up painfully slow, making Way conversations near impossible to uphold.

Whilst I agree upon it nudging people to be more social outside of compounds etc, it is also going to axe other social aspects, such as not being the same outpost/city and needing to speak either socially or business, and will alienate people in to whatever city/outpost they are in and little outside it.

Whilst it has been connected to stun, the regen was never, ever this bad, even with poor stat characters..

As it has been said numerous times already, any role or character that requires a lot of co-ordination with, such as sergeants, nobles and merchants etc.. if this regen rate is to remain, you have my deepest sympathy for the already stressful nature of the roles, in those times when numerous people are waying you.

I haven't tested it myself yet, but I like the idea of the Way being used for only brief messages and finding out if people are online like old school FEM/SOI notify. Even as an offpeak player who struggles to catch other people online, I think IC meet ups are better for RP than holding multiple conversations over the Way.

Perhaps for those who like to psisex and hold multiple conversations in the future a subguild could be added that has better regen? I could especially see this useful for nobles who could have had superior mental training and study growing up, similar to Agis from Darksun books.