Focus point pool - Discussion Thread

[mansa]

https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,57236.0.html

Coming soon:  A new stat point pool called Focus is being introduced that will be the point pool for all psionics for everyone.  It will be primarily influenced by wisdom, so races with low wisdom may have a little bit harder time using the Way.  Stun will remain unchanged otherwise.  We are announcing this before the change so those of you who have customized mud clients can be prepared beforehand.

I have a few questions:

Q - What's the intent of moving 'psionics' away from 'stun' and into a new stat?
Q - Can you be knocked out if your focus gets to zero?
Q - Can other things affect your focus, besides psionics?

[Halaster]

https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,57236.0.html

I have a few questions:

Q - What's the intent of moving 'psionics' away from 'stun' and into a new stat?
Q - Can you be knocked out if your focus gets to zero?
Q - Can other things affect your focus, besides psionics?

1.  Originally stun was meant to be for psionics, but over time stun has been kind of usurped for a lot of combat and other skills.  But we decided we don't like those things sharing the same pool, and would rather see them not (directly) effect each other.
2.  We're still working out the kinks of what to do when it hits 0, I'll talk more about it as we get closer to release
3.  Unlikely since focus is meant to be for psionics only.  But that's not set in stone.

[mansa]

That's pretty cool.
It feels the change will be that using the way isn't as stressful on the body as it currently is now..  kinda like how using mana isn't as stressful on the body when you cast a spell.
(You don't get /movement point tired/ when you cast a spell, and you don't get /stun point tired/ when you cast a spell, but your /mana gets tired/)

Q - Will the use of contact, psi message, barrier, expel, and the 'occasional way usage' ticks that we currently have be the same values as it is today?  (example - it costs 10 stun to contact someone, and 10 stun to send a message, and the occasional stun ticks for being connected are for 10)

[Jihelu]

I'd like to see certain spices adding to your psionic points, or perhaps having your wisdom raise in general would raise your psionic points?

Perhaps having 0 focus points could apply a debuff and not just knock you out?

Could even be an IC name for the condition, 'Way fatigue' or some shit, best cured by: Sleep, drinking tea, copious amounts of spice, not using the way for a bit dumb dumb.

[Halaster]

Q - Will the use of contact, psi message, barrier, expel, and the 'occasional way usage' ticks that we currently have be the same values as it is today?  (example - it costs 10 stun to contact someone, and 10 stun to send a message, and the occasional stun ticks for being connected are for 10)

Yep, most probably definitely.   I don't see a reason why that needs to change, as the focus pool is going to be in the same ballpark as mana is.

The question not yet asked is:  does this mean half-giants are going to have a hard time with the Way?   Yes, they are going to find it more difficult.  However, if it gets too difficult for them, we will adjust.  After all, the original real purpose of contact/psi specifically was to emulate the 'tell' command from traditional DIKU and keep it IC.  We don't want to totally remove that from HG's, but since it's a wisdom-based thing they will struggle with it a bit more than other races.

[X-D]

Um...So, is it a stat or is it a point pool?

I mean it seems rather odd to have a stat influenced by another stat while, to my knowledge no others are.

[Halaster]

Um...So, is it a stat or is it a point pool?

It's a point pool like mana or stun.  I probably shouldn't have called it a stat in retrospect.

[X-D]

Cool, so far seems like a good idea then.

[Patuk]

Sure I guess, why not. Waying people while playing elves should feel a lot better then

[JustAnotherGuy]

After reading the answers above, I like this idea a lot.  I also like the idea if you get hit to zero, you get a debuff put on you.  Maybe the debuff could make it so that doing physical things are tougher, or maybe uses more movement points, you cannot carry as much, because your mind is fatigued.  Way Fatigue or Mind Drain, or whatever.  Stun makes sense to knock someone out at zero, Health at zero incapacitated, bleed out and then death, movement at zero and you cannot moved.

I would also look at rebalancing stun also as there are certain things right now that makes stun easier to abuse, in my opinion.

[slipshod]

Current helpfiles for 'focus' talk about "change objective" and dwarven RP. 

What character will be used to pulled focus values into the prompt?

[Dar]

Love the idea. It actually allows mindworms use some of their abilities in power without making themselves lose consciousness in a single poke.

The ol' trick of engaging someone in a psi conversation until they get tired and then sapping their last remaining stun points won't be useable anymore, but no big loss.

It will (I hope) also diminish use of the way, as the price for psi convos can now increase without causing people to die in silly ways.

[Malken]

Damn, I thought this was going to be about offline skill training.

[Veselka]

Question 1: What was the impetus for changing this, and what is the intended result?

Question 2: What environmental issues will affect 'focus'? Meaning, will fighting a creature reduce your overall focus points? Will having multiple psionic effects up reduce your overall pool of focus points?

Question 3: Will Listen/Scan still reduce from stun, or from focus points?

Question 4: Will certain poisons / environmental stimuli affect focus over stun?

[Greve]

This sounds like a good idea. Stun has always been a bit of an elephant in the room, mainly because bludgeoning weapons are so grotesquely unbalanced that tying the resource to anything else is problematic. I would rather have seen that addressed in other ways, but that's a different discussion.

As far as psionics themselves, they've mostly been a non-issue for mundanes ever since the starting level of contact was raised to master. Leadership roles are the only ones who really seem like it's ever a concern. It was hellish back in the day when you started at novice or whatever (this may even have been before visible skill levels), but with the change to start at master, I've always been comfortable with the cost of Waying. The only issue was that it put you at greater risk of being knocked unconscious if you took actual stun damage, and this sounds like it addresses that.

I have no idea how this might affect actual psionicists, but then again I haven't heard anyone so much as mention the name of that class since the big revamp (i.e. nerf) of it. Every psionicist I could possibly name was from before that, so I suspect it won't have much of an impact in that regard.

The only issue I've had with psionics is that you can have a barrier up indefinitely. The maintenance cost is effectively nothing since you're not Waying with a barrier up and the base regeneration effortlessly nullifies the few points you lose on ticks. I always felt that maintaining a barrier should cost a real amount of stun (now focus, I guess) instead of three points every couple of minutes or whatever. It should be something you use strategically, not something you can just keep up for as long as you want, at least as a mundane. Permanent barrier could be a psionicist perk. For mundanes, half an in-game day should be the general limit and then you'll have spent your focus. In my opinion.

[Halaster]

Question 1: What was the impetus for changing this, and what is the intended result?

Question 2: What environmental issues will affect 'focus'? Meaning, will fighting a creature reduce your overall focus points? Will having multiple psionic effects up reduce your overall pool of focus points?

Question 3: Will Listen/Scan still reduce from stun, or from focus points?

Question 4: Will certain poisons / environmental stimuli affect focus over stun?

1.  Originally stun was meant to be for psionics, but over time stun has been kind of usurped for a lot of combat and other skills.  But we decided we don't like those things sharing the same pool, and would rather see them not (directly) effect each other.  The goal is to not have psionics and combat-related affects share the same pool.

2. Fighting will not affect your max focus points.  Multiple psi affects will.  Focus is determined by wisdom, so a high wisdom will have the greatest impact on the focus points.  It will be in the same ballpark as mana.

3. Everything besides psionics that currently use the stun pool will continue to do so.  So scan, listen, etc. will keep using stun.  Contact/barrier, etc will use focus. 

Also, things that currently affect your ability to use the Way will continue to do so.  If something modifies your ability to use the Way and it has a direct impact on points, that will be changed to focus from stun.

4. Eventually some things will be able to enhance or detract from focus, yes. Separating this out from stun does give us the option to have things affect your ability to use the Way while not directly affecting your combat/perception abilities (i.e. manipulate the focus pool while leaving stun alone).   That gives us more flexibility and yes we'll be making use of that new functionality down the road.

[Veselka]

*thumbs up*

[triste]

I like the change somewhat, but it removes the tactical advantage sap previously had. Know someone is making out on the Way? Sap 'em! I'll miss that.

Easily fixed by making sap drain Focus as well, and having 0 Focus result in fainting. Apologies if this case was already addressed, but please address it if it hasn't!

[Halaster]

Easily fixed by making sap drain Focus as well, and having 0 Focus result in fainting. Apologies if this case was already addressed, but please address it if it hasn't!

No.  That's what stun is for, getting KO'd by things like sap. 

[triste]

Alright thanks for addressing my question.

One less Achilles Heel for me!

[mansa]

My suggestion regarding if 'focus points go to zero'.

I don't want my character to enter a state where I have no agency over them, like when you are knocked out.  I would like to have a brief debuff that prevents usage of psionic abilities only after my focus points have reached their full capacity again, or perhaps after they've reached 75% of max.

I would not want the psionic abilities to be prevented for longer than 10 minutes Real-Life.  If you regard the current state of STUN reaching ZERO, you may be 'knocked out' for longer than 10 minutes real life, and that isn't fun gameplay.


::EDIT::
https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,57236.msg1066662.html#msg1066662

We all know and love the 'feature' of random people passing out in taverns from overuse of the Way.  While specifically being knocked out is a consequence of stun loss, we wanted to have something similar with focus.  As a result of reaching 0 focus you will become effectively dumbstruck.  You will still be awake and able to hear and see the world around you, but your mind will be reeling and scattered so you will be unable to do anything.  It's similar to being paralyzed, and the timeframe is the same as being knocked out from stun loss.  While this is slightly less harsh than knock out, there is currently no known remedy to bring someone out of their stupor early.

Hmmmm..

Is there any way to enforce that the debuff timer does not extend longer than 10 minutes in real life?   Because being paralyzed and your character being prevented from doing /anything/ for more than 5 minutes is definitely UNFUN.

[lostinspace]

Hitting 0 focus sounds horrible. If this works primarily as point pool for psionic abilities does it really need such a harsh disadvantage? Does it last as long as the knockout from hitting 0 stun?

Will mages have a similar disadvantage added for when their point pool spent on mage abilities hits 0?

[Patuk]

Hitting 0 focus sounds horrible. If this works primarily as point pool for psionic abilities does it really need such a harsh disadvantage? Does it last as long as the knockout from hitting 0 stun?

Will mages have a similar disadvantage added for when their point pool spent on mage abilities hits 0?

It's.. Literally the same as hitting 0 stun is. If nothing else, it's more lenient - you can still see and hear, and hitting 0 is going to happen less, because you won't just have the one pool now.

I get where you're all coming from but this measure will literally make an old problem better, so I think it's just gonna be good.

[Brytta Léofa]

This all sounds good. I'm actually pretty chuffed that there's now an IC explanation for being linkdead.

Is there any way to enforce that the debuff timer does not extend longer than 10 minutes in real life?   Because being paralyzed and your character being prevented from doing /anything/ for more than 5 minutes is definitely UNFUN.

+1. Can we reduce the stunned/dumbfounded time from 10 minutes to maybe 3-5? Still long enough to be scary/deadly, not so long that it's hard to stay engaged.

[Dresan]

This sounds like a good idea.

[lostinspace]

Hitting 0 focus sounds horrible. If this works primarily as point pool for psionic abilities does it really need such a harsh disadvantage? Does it last as long as the knockout from hitting 0 stun?

Will mages have a similar disadvantage added for when their point pool spent on mage abilities hits 0?

It's.. Literally the same as hitting 0 stun is. If nothing else, it's more lenient - you can still see and hear, and hitting 0 is going to happen less, because you won't just have the one pool now.

I get where you're all coming from but this measure will literally make an old problem better, so I think it's just gonna be good.

I see 3 differences that stand out that make this less like hitting 0 stun.

1: There's no known cure, but there are working cures for both being knocked out and paralyze poison. If smelling salts still worked, I'd agree and call it a wash.

2: They might be separate pools, but one is based on endurance and the other on wisdom. A character with AI endurance and poor wisdom might be using psionics with a pool significantly smaller than the stun pool they had before.

3: You get to keep listening and hearing, and presumably there's no obvious sign you've befuddled yourself. This is a bonus over just dropping in the middle of a room.

Question for devs on this: Will it be apparent someone has mind broke themselves or will it be indiscernible from going AFK?

[Jihelu]

I hope we get a 'So and so looks spaced out' or some kind of descriptor if you look at someone with 0 focus.

[Delirium]

Please, please, please let us emote while perained or stunned from zeroed out focus. It is jarring to not be able to set the scene at all. If we can be trusted not to do ninja backflips and pretend to turn into blue mantis, I think we can be trusted to add flavor to the scene when our characters are incapacitated.

I want to emote blood trickling from the blowdart wound, face frozen in an expression of surprise. I want to emote how my vacant eyes are rolled halfway up in my head and I've got a nosebleed. Something, anything.

Not being able to emote goes contrary to trusting us to RP a situation, and forces us to just sit there, bored spectators.

[Halaster]

Question for devs on this: Will it be apparent someone has mind broke themselves or will it be indiscernible from going AFK?

Yep, it will be apparent.  It will have its own special ldesc and message to the room when it happens.

[X-D]

Yeah, I do not like this part AT ALL.

Might as well just leave it out and leave it with stun. Same thing cept only one thing to screw you over instead of two.

But, least My PCs will not need to use the way anymore. So I guess there is an upside.

Boss, "Why did you not way me?"
My Pc, "Sorry...too risky."

[Veselka]

Will certain spice or food increase focus?

[Halaster]

Will certain spice or food increase focus?

not yet

[Hauwke]

Will certain spice or food increase focus?

not yet

Well, if it is wisdom based, the wisdom boosting spice would by increasing wisdom.

[mansa]

- reduced the timer to something random less than 10 minutes
- added the ability to emote while dumbstruck

Thanks for listening to the feedback!

[creeper386]

My only issue is how is this supposed to be played out.

We go from being able to help people who knocked themselves waying to now ... Having no clue to help.

So this seems to indicate that psionics are not changing in the world? It's not a retcon of how things used to work because if it was we'd probably have been living for ages knowing if there was a way to help these people?

[Jihelu]

It is a bit odd.
We've gone from actual scenarios of 'Oh they passed out from waying' *Hits them with the smelling salts*
To "Oh yeah, they are waystuck. We have no way of helping them and never have"

[X-D]

Unless staff says otherwise. I will be playing as already retconned....My PC has never used the way.

(edit)

And let me make this clear. The first statement of the change I was good with, as I posted. But the punishment of WORSE then passing out...I am not.

Hey, you want to put some kind of random mind punishment in....I am good with that as long as it does not cause my PC to become a NPC with nosave combat on. hit 0 and random roll of Babble or no waying for the next 2 hours or really really drunk for a rl hour or skell. Hey, fine. But this, to me, is another situation of staff not asking themselves. Are we actually adding to the game.

[lairos]

I'm curious to know how this will effect certain spells in game as well as other abilities. I assume these were taken into account?

It really seems to me that elves will come out on top on this one haha.

[Citizen Puddi]

im just bummed that i wont be able to lull someone into a psi convo so i can expel them for that sweet mundane sap boost jutsu :c

Though there's probably a lot that I'm missing, but I'm not all that mad at having to be more careful with The Way.

[Dar]

Unless staff says otherwise. I will be playing as already retconned....My PC has never used the way.

(edit)

And let me make this clear. The first statement of the change I was good with, as I posted. But the punishment of WORSE then passing out...I am not.

Hey, you want to put some kind of random mind punishment in....I am good with that as long as it does not cause my PC to become a NPC with nosave combat on. hit 0 and random roll of Babble or no waying for the next 2 hours or really really drunk for a rl hour or skell. Hey, fine. But this, to me, is another situation of staff not asking themselves. Are we actually adding to the game.

How is it worse then passing out for 15 minutes? Did I miss something?

[X-D]

smelling salts


I mean, that should be enough of an answer but I will add anyway.

Knock yourself out....now, if you are playing a low end elf it might be 15 min...but normally I find it to be 5-10.
But that is not what we are talking of. If you KO...you become a rock. But if there are friends around, or even just helpful people you can be brought out. Now we are talking the same as KO, same time as KO, BUT, no way to bring you out....So yes, it is worse.

[Halaster]

We really don't want to have to try and retcon the fact smelling salts have always worked to revive someone out from overuse of the Way.  So they will help revive people who are dumbstruck.

[Citizen Puddi]

smelling salts


I mean, that should be enough of an answer but I will add anyway.

Knock yourself out....now, if you are playing a low end elf it might be 15 min...but normally I find it to be 5-10.
But that is not what we are talking of. If you KO...you become a rock. But if there are friends around, or even just helpful people you can be brought out. Now we are talking the same as KO, same time as KO, BUT, no way to bring you out....So yes, it is worse.

Oke, ye.

That's the bit I must've missed.

If the smelling salts in-game are anything at all similar to cranking a bottle of nose tork™ (which i kinda assume they are given their use) I can't really imagine anything short of magick preventing at least some form of arousal from its use.

We really don't want to have to try and retcon the fact smelling salts have always worked to revive someone out from overuse of the Way.  So they will help revive people who are dumbstruck.

oke cool

[Hauwke]

The knockout timer from all sources is exactly 10 minutes, idk where you people keep pulling an hour from. The only methods I know of that can make it longer is being so drunk it keeps you down, and a certain stun draining poison.

I think we just need to give this new system a go, before we go full "I'll never use the Way again".

While I was writing Halaster disproved another complaint, it's almost like he understands.

[Barsook]

.

[lairos]

While I'm not a huge fan of this currently as it just seems like an over complication and just one more thing to watch h? I'm just going have to see how this plays out and maybe it'll be easier than my current assumptions.

I do really appreciate that staff are taking the feedback here into consideration for this and have updated the time factor, emoting and smelling salts working for this now.

My curiosity on how it affects some magick aspects and even psionics still holds, but I don't expect an open answer on that. I'm also curious on how it may impact current characters and what they've been able to do and suddenly may not be able to. That last part is obviously assumption and more my thoughts towards half giants and maybe dwarves.

[Jihelu]

I like the focus pool idea because it makes me think someone in staff is going to eventually make psionics more common than a single 3 karma spec app only class.

I'm probably wrong, but I have dreams.

[creeper386]

We really don't want to have to try and retcon the fact smelling salts have always worked to revive someone out from overuse of the Way.  So they will help revive people who are dumbstruck.

This solves my one issue. And honestly if smelling salts didn't work I'd just want to have some idea of how I'm supposed to play this change.

[Dar]

I want dumbstruck add +100 to defense while status is activ e. 





had to try.

[Patuk]

I still think this change should be basically fine. If nothing else, it should make it easier for non-HG to remain conscious. Why so many seem worried about the contrary, I'm not even sure.

[X-D]

Because awake and cannot move is no different then asleep and cannot move.

Actually...it is likely worse.


I still will be retconning my own PC though.....The way, Sorry, I never learned how to use it....I have before...Nah man, you must have been on skell or spice.

[Hauwke]

That isn't how that works X-D and you know that. I think you are making a huge issue to yourself out of it. At this point I'm not convinced you wouldn't push back against it even if the change came with double the Way Juice Points we are currently working with. Seems like complaining for the sake of it.

I personally can't wait to see how the change effects everybody constantly Waying 6 people all at once. If it sucks it sucks and will be adjusted to fix it, but I'm not going to get all salty and whine about it before we've even seen it.

[Patuk]

Previously: Way too much, get KO'd completely. Cannot do anything. Scan/watch/guard/whateverthefuck will dig into your pool.

Change: Way too much, get KO'd, but retain sight/hearing. Cannot do anything, but shorter.

If it looks like I'm being flippant, it's because I genuinely, and I mean this, want to try and understand what you are saying, and where the problem is, because I do not see it.

[creeper386]

My only thing that might be a concern is with it being related to only wisdom, is to see what the pool looks like, but hopefully that's been looked at and isn't going to be too significantly different then it currently is.

HGs having troubles being able to way ... That's going to suck, but I guess they tend to not have issues getting involved with things because they break stuff good.

[lairos]

It's really hard to say until we see it in practice which is coming very soon.

In my opinion, a couple of the biggest assumed fears are:
1. If it's much like the mana pool, many have seen them from the base area of 50 to 80s. While some have had stun in the 80s most have never seen thr 50s/60s unless you've played old and that can be devastating. That's an initial contact and a couple ways maybe. This can mean less or no interaction for some.
2. What will the regen rate be like and will higher wis mean faster regen too like it was for end?

All that said Staff? Staff have done a great job of finding a compromise from what they were initially rolling out and leaning far more towards what players have brought up.

[Halaster]

I still will be retconning my own PC though.....The way, Sorry, I never learned how to use it....I have before...Nah man, you must have been on skell or spice.

You do you, boo.

[creeper386]

All that said Staff? Staff have done a great job of finding a compromise from what they were initially rolling out and leaning far more towards what players have brought up.

Yeah I had my main concern around how to play the change and that was addressed quickly. I think it'll be fine. If not I'll complain until Halaster blocks me.

[X-D]

I get amused with people.

Any way...Of course it is still a wait and see. And maybe I should have pointed out that I don't like the way anyway. And that an excuse to not use it is actually a good thing on my end.

BUT...

Even if you have a huge pool and the regen is fast......I can say that I still do not agree with something else that turns a PC into a vegetable. Ever the optimist, I was just hoping for more creative things.

[najdorf]

great change. stat balance is also very important in any game design. now wisdom is one step closer to strength.

[valeria]

Hate it.  Even with high wisdom and sitting down, it's practically impossible to carry out a meaningful Way conversation.  Forget about being able to switch minds or multitask.

I hope it gets tweaked.  Anything that makes it harder to have conversations, much less organize meetings or events with other people, cuts down social interaction.  In a social game, that's really annoying.

[Barsook]

I'm on the fence if I like it myself.

[Veselka]

I kinda like it, but it could use some tweaking as far as recovery/Psi usage. It'd be cool if it was different across classes/races, or had a random chance of being 'better' or 'worse' than other people, so some PCs you might just be terrible at using the way, other PCs, fantastic, and you can help prioritize it with not making wisdom a dump stat.

From what I am seeing it is recovering WAY slower than stun would, which I think should be tweaked upwards to match.

I also started with a much higher focus and then when I used the way the maximum dropped about 30 points. Not sure if that is as intended.

EDIT:

The change has also made the pace of conversation vastly different. While you used to be able to carry along a well-paced conversation similar to talking in person, now you will have to wait much longer intervals before responding, which is a HUGE DRAG for Leadership positions, that often have to juggle multiple conversations and minds to get their job done. Especially with 'You suffer from use of the Way' passively ticking off points by just maintaining contact, it can turn a 5 minute conversation into a 10 minute conversation, a 10 minute conversation into a 15 or 20 minute conversation, with a need to disconnect and take a break before re-establishing contact.

That's a big change and big deal for how business in ArmageddonMUD is maintained and constructed!

This can have a RL impact on a PC, as a login session that might've taken 30 minutes before (a check in with an Aide for instance) turns into an hour. An hour, into an hour and a half or two hours. I personally feel the greatest pain for GMH Merchants, who when I've played them, have upwards of 5 or 6 minds in their head at once, and need to juggle them all.

Please consider changing the Focus Regeneration Rate to be 10 instead of 5, and much more frequently than it is currently to closer match stun regeneration.

[Delirium]

Hate it.  Even with high wisdom and sitting down, it's practically impossible to carry out a meaningful Way conversation.  Forget about being able to switch minds or multitask.

I hope it gets tweaked.  Anything that makes it harder to have conversations, much less organize meetings or events with other people, cuts down social interaction.  In a social game, that's really annoying.

This.

Please double the amount of focus points, and then maybe we're talking.

[Blink]

I am seldom this negative but here it is:  I hate this.  It's really going to mess up how I play my current PC who has a ridiculously low focus pool and a ridiculously slow regen time. Perhaps the mana pool could increase over time as one gets better and better at the Way?

[betweenford]

I like the presence of a secondary pool of points. That's good. Prevents more abusive things from happening to chars.

What needs a tweak is the amount of passive regen and bonuses from regen by being in a resting state, it's reaaaaaaaaally slow, even with the bonus supposedly provided when resting. Merchantile classes and survival classes could use a decent boost as a class-bonus to it too. Opposite spectrum to how fighter classes get better stun regen.

[Delirium]

Regen points are WAAAAYYYYY too slow, the pool is too small, and the drain is too regular.

I like the change but it definitely needs tweaking to be more playable.

[Dar]

Regen points are WAAAAYYYYY too slow, the pool is too small, and the drain is too regular.

I like the change but it definitely needs tweaking to be more playable.

Even for high wis people?   Wisdom tends to be a dump stat for many people, so I imagine a lot of people with low wisdom ended up being heavily gimped. I'm curious how the high wis people are doing.

Would be cool to make Qel give a vaaaast regeneration bonus to focus.

Maybe other non spice drinks facilitate this as well. Like Mentats enjoying their Sapho Juice in Dune, the Aides might be perpetually holding onto a flask of special tea that helps them use the way for their Employees, but fuck up their strength.

[valeria]

My character has very good wisdom.  The pool is probably fine, but the regen is too slow.

The current functionality is a huge nerf for any social-role player.  It's kind of like having an online job and a slow internet connection.  Since this wasn't advertised as an intended nerf, it doesn't seem to be working as intended.

[Rashad]

Max focus is 45% of my max stun points. It's punishing, even if you just use the way to find out who is online and available for interaction.

[Hauwke]

Max focus is 45% of my max stun points. It's punishing, even if you just use the way to find out who is online and available for interaction.

Unless you are playing a HG, I just don't believe this. My PC should probably have one of the lowest pools out there and it isn't even an issue. The regen is, but the pool is sizeable enough to be totally fine.

[Cabooze]

I have a feeling that the game change is also in part to promote in-person meetups instead of having your whole virtual-meeting through the way. If you're having longwinded conversation over the way, you'd be better off having it in-person. If you're juggling conversations and struggling, you might need to start ignoring more people and telling them to meet you at X location. Hiding away in some secluded room exclusively using the way sounds like something a mindworm should be doing instead of the normal noble/commoner.

[Veselka]

I have a feeling that the game change is also in part to promote in-person meetups instead of having your whole virtual-meeting through the way. If you're having longwinded conversation over the way, you'd be better off having it in-person. If you're juggling conversations and struggling, you might need to start ignoring more people and telling them to meet you at X location. Hiding away in some secluded room exclusively using the way sounds like something a mindworm should be doing instead of the normal noble/commoner.

That's a worthy point for discussion -- But this change was not advertised in that manner, more passively moving psionic actions away from the Stun Points pool, into a new pool called Focus Points. It wasn't mentioned as anything other than that.

If it was intended to nerf Way conversations or anything else, it wasn't put forward to the player base in that manner.

[Nao]

I have a feeling that the game change is also in part to promote in-person meetups instead of having your whole virtual-meeting through the way. If you're having longwinded conversation over the way, you'd be better off having it in-person. If you're juggling conversations and struggling, you might need to start ignoring more people and telling them to meet you at X location. Hiding away in some secluded room exclusively using the way sounds like something a mindworm should be doing instead of the normal noble/commoner.

What about people that aren't in your part of the game world? Or those that you're just not going to meet face to face? Using the way to get around the language barrier?

If you make communication harder, that's going to slow down and limit everything, not somehow lead to more interaction.

[zeia]

Personally, I quite like the fact of having it seperate from stun.

However, I sincerely hope it will be tweaked on the regen timer.. even with resting and good stats.. it goes up painfully slow, making Way conversations near impossible to uphold.

Whilst I agree upon it nudging people to be more social outside of compounds etc, it is also going to axe other social aspects, such as not being the same outpost/city and needing to speak either socially or business, and will alienate people in to whatever city/outpost they are in and little outside it.

Whilst it has been connected to stun, the regen was never, ever this bad, even with poor stat characters..

As it has been said numerous times already, any role or character that requires a lot of co-ordination with, such as sergeants, nobles and merchants etc.. if this regen rate is to remain, you have my deepest sympathy for the already stressful nature of the roles, in those times when numerous people are waying you.

[Evilone]

I haven't tested it myself yet, but I like the idea of the Way being used for only brief messages and finding out if people are online like old school FEM/SOI notify. Even as an offpeak player who struggles to catch other people online, I think IC meet ups are better for RP than holding multiple conversations over the Way.

Perhaps for those who like to psisex and hold multiple conversations in the future a subguild could be added that has better regen? I could especially see this useful for nobles who could have had superior mental training and study growing up, similar to Agis from Darksun books.

[Patuk]

The recent update has made it so my (non-genius..) character can hold a Way conversation without great issue, so I think we're in a good spot now.

[Inks]

I like it a lot. Good job. Will be a lot safer coordinating unit tactics in the field too.

[najdorf]

Hate it.  Even with high wisdom and sitting down, it's practically impossible to carry out a meaningful Way conversation.  Forget about being able to switch minds or multitask.

I hope it gets tweaked.  Anything that makes it harder to have conversations, much less organize meetings or events with other people, cuts down social interaction.  In a social game, that's really annoying.

If any tweak is considered, I recommend keep base as is, and give bonus (to either max focus point or recovery) based on wisdom. Wisdom shouldn't be a trash roll last stat for mundane and this change is excellent to contribute it.

[Barsook]

Good tweak for sure.

[SilkyBoi]

I'd rather scan and watch and guard draw from my focus pool rather than stun pool. Neither fits perfectly but to me focus seems more related to concentrating on something than stun.

[Veselka]

Regen Rate = Great.

Thanks for the tweak.

[MeTekillot]

I think it'd be themely and sensible for focus use and regeneration to be significantly increased and decreased -- respectively -- if you're injured, with increasing costs the more injured you are.

[Lotion]

being able to way while climbing is so nice

[MeTekillot]

Forgot to say that my full support is behind changing psionics to its own pool of points.