'Tok Pile on Tower Moze!

I'm just curious of two things with the current release notes.

Why did the mutants get full witch removed?

and

Was the memory leak what was causing us to lag like crazy during US prime time?

Quote- Desert elves now have a minimum of 1 stamina loss in the city, instead of 0

I'm very late to the party, but this affects walking and is quite annoying. You need stamina to leave and run back to whatever spot in the desert you came from. So now you lose a lot of stamina even on a quick in-and-out trip, and need to sit somewhere for ten minutes to recover. It also doesn't make a whole lot of sense to be suddenly massively short-winded from walking or running short distances when other races have no problems.

What's the reason for this? Most of the currently open tribes do go into cities as by the docs, and have been encouraged to do that to promote interaction. In my experience players rarely went before this change, and that's not going to help.

Quote from: Pariah on November 11, 2023, 12:36:39 PMI'm just curious of two things with the current release notes.

Why did the mutants get full witch removed?

Thryzn were never allowed to have the standard magicker subclasses.  When the new 'full guild drov/vivaduan' was implemented a month ago, it was incorrectly added to the Thryzn class selection.

Quote from: dunecrawler on November 11, 2023, 12:57:00 PM

Quote- Desert elves now have a minimum of 1 stamina loss in the city, instead of 0

I'm very late to the party, but this affects walking and is quite annoying. You need stamina to leave and run back to whatever spot in the desert you came from. So now you lose a lot of stamina even on a quick in-and-out trip, and need to sit somewhere for ten minutes to recover. It also doesn't make a whole lot of sense to be suddenly massively short-winded from walking or running short distances when other races have no problems.

What's the reason for this? Most of the currently open tribes do go into cities as by the docs, and have been encouraged to do that to promote interaction. In my experience players rarely went before this change, and that's not going to help.

I think this only accounts for running skinnys, if you walk I don't think you incur the stamina drain.

Quote from: Pariah on November 11, 2023, 01:10:58 PM

Quote from: dunecrawler on November 11, 2023, 12:57:00 PM

Quote- Desert elves now have a minimum of 1 stamina loss in the city, instead of 0

I'm very late to the party, but this affects walking and is quite annoying. You need stamina to leave and run back to whatever spot in the desert you came from. So now you lose a lot of stamina even on a quick in-and-out trip, and need to sit somewhere for ten minutes to recover. It also doesn't make a whole lot of sense to be suddenly massively short-winded from walking or running short distances when other races have no problems.

What's the reason for this? Most of the currently open tribes do go into cities as by the docs, and have been encouraged to do that to promote interaction. In my experience players rarely went before this change, and that's not going to help.

I think this only accounts for running skinnys, if you walk I don't think you incur the stamina drain.

I thought so, too, when I first read this. And that wouldn't be a big deal. But it applies to walking, too.

Quote from: dunecrawler on November 11, 2023, 01:33:29 PM

Quote from: Pariah on November 11, 2023, 01:10:58 PM

Quote from: dunecrawler on November 11, 2023, 12:57:00 PM

Quote- Desert elves now have a minimum of 1 stamina loss in the city, instead of 0

I'm very late to the party, but this affects walking and is quite annoying. You need stamina to leave and run back to whatever spot in the desert you came from. So now you lose a lot of stamina even on a quick in-and-out trip, and need to sit somewhere for ten minutes to recover. It also doesn't make a whole lot of sense to be suddenly massively short-winded from walking or running short distances when other races have no problems.

What's the reason for this? Most of the currently open tribes do go into cities as by the docs, and have been encouraged to do that to promote interaction. In my experience players rarely went before this change, and that's not going to help.

I think this only accounts for running skinnys, if you walk I don't think you incur the stamina drain.

I thought so, too, when I first read this. But it applies to walking, too.

Are you sure you're not too encumbered?  Elves are notoriously wimps

If not and it's draining to simply walk, that shit sounds broken, I'd open a bug report.

Quote from: Pariah on November 11, 2023, 01:34:43 PM

Quote from: dunecrawler on November 11, 2023, 01:33:29 PM

Quote from: Pariah on November 11, 2023, 01:10:58 PM

Quote from: dunecrawler on November 11, 2023, 12:57:00 PM

Quote- Desert elves now have a minimum of 1 stamina loss in the city, instead of 0

I'm very late to the party, but this affects walking and is quite annoying. You need stamina to leave and run back to whatever spot in the desert you came from. So now you lose a lot of stamina even on a quick in-and-out trip, and need to sit somewhere for ten minutes to recover. It also doesn't make a whole lot of sense to be suddenly massively short-winded from walking or running short distances when other races have no problems.

What's the reason for this? Most of the currently open tribes do go into cities as by the docs, and have been encouraged to do that to promote interaction. In my experience players rarely went before this change, and that's not going to help.

I think this only accounts for running skinnys, if you walk I don't think you incur the stamina drain.

I thought so, too, when I first read this. But it applies to walking, too.

Are you sure you're not too encumbered?  Elves are notoriously wimps

If not and it's draining to simply walk, that shit sounds broken, I'd open a bug report.

Yes, I have encumbrance in my prompt.

Yes Delves get 1 encumbrance loss per room in cities. They shouldn't be spending much time in cities and you get +100 stamina anyway, so it really shouldn't be an issue if you're not spending massive amounts of time inside.

Quote from: Kavrick on November 11, 2023, 02:31:26 PMYes Delves get 1 encumbrance loss per room in cities. They shouldn't be spending much time in cities and you get +100 stamina anyway, so it really shouldn't be an issue if you're not spending massive amounts of time inside.

It's an issue because unlike other races, they
1. Need to leave, and
2. Can't just hop on a mount and ride home without using stamina, they NEED that mv to get anywhere else.

Quote from: dunecrawler on November 11, 2023, 02:48:38 PMIt's an issue because unlike other races, they
1. Need to leave, and
2. Can't just hop on a mount and ride home without using stamina, they NEED that mv to get anywhere else.

As someone who's played a trade-based delf tribe multiple times and spent a lot of time in settlements, it's seriously not an issue unless you dumped endurance or don't manage your stamina properly. You should have around 200 stamina and it's 1 stamina per room, not to mention, stamina regen is percentage based, so delves regen like 20+ stamina per tick. I seriously have no idea how you could be struggling with it because the bonus stamina delves get is super generous.

I mean, outside, delves only use a single stamina point per room while they're running on a road, a big 'skill' part of playing a delf is knowing where you can run to and the different resting areas to get your stamina back. Not to mention, in the north, you get massive stamina regen while in the grasslands.

-1 stamina per room equals out to, like, fifteen points at most off the 200+ any rando delf is gonna have. This is not some huge deal and I don't know what it'd take to convince me otherwise.

Quote from: Kavrick on November 11, 2023, 02:52:07 PMnot to mention, stamina regen is percentage based, so delves regen like 20+ stamina per tick

That's not true at all. Desert elves regenerate the same amount as anyone else. It's 8-12 depending on class.

But taking 1 stamina per room in cities is a non-issue either way. I do think it should be 0 when walking, though, like any other race. There's no logical explanation for why d-elves would be worse at walking.

Quote from: Triskelion on November 11, 2023, 03:08:58 PMThat's not true at all. Desert elves regenerate the same amount as anyone else. It's 8-12 depending on class.

I feel like I've experienced otherwise, but I'm not gonna argue code. I think my point still stands, Desert Elves losing a singular stamina out of their 200 while in an area they're not supposed to regularly be in is fine.

Depending on which tribe you're in, distance to settlements varies. Two Moons locations are very close, the other two - not so much.
This turns resting once into resting twice. Or getting really low on stamina, which makes you extremely vulnerable if some aggro beastie shows up, so it should be something you avoid.

I said it's very annoying and does not make sense. It's an extra rest and extra sitting around for however long it takes you to regenerate that 50 stamina that you used up inside Allanak, running around for a quick supply run. And sitting around does not make for a very fun experience, it's the whole reason feed code was introduced for mounts.

I'm not sure why you're bringing up the grasslands - out of all tribes, the one there has fewer reasons to enter a city than the other two.

Quote from: Patuk on November 11, 2023, 03:04:39 PM-1 stamina per room equals out to, like, fifteen points at most off the 200+ any rando delf is gonna have. This is not some huge deal and I don't know what it'd take to convince me otherwise.

Fifteen points is seven (and a half) rooms in and back out. That's maybe enough to get to the market in Red Storm. Visit two areas in Allanak and you're closer to fifty in no time.

Quote from: dunecrawler on November 11, 2023, 03:23:27 PMDepending on which tribe you're in, distance to settlements varies. Two Moons locations are very close, the other two - not so much.

Well, I don't think the other two tribes have much interest in going to Allanak in the first place. The ATV camp is pretty close to Tuluk, and the Dune Stalkers are basically terrorists.

Quote from: dunecrawler on November 11, 2023, 03:26:23 PMFifteen points is seven (and a half) rooms in and back out. That's maybe enough to get to the market in Red Storm. Visit two areas in Allanak and you're closer to fifty in no time.

You can also step into any building that lines the entire city and rest for like 10 seconds to get it all back.

Quote from: Triskelion on November 11, 2023, 03:33:45 PMWell, I don't think the other two tribes have much interest in going to Allanak in the first place. The ATV camp is pretty close to Tuluk, and the Dune Stalkers are basically terrorists.

Have you read the DS docs? Honest question, because they are pretty clear on Dune Stalkers in cities.

Quote from: Kavrick on November 11, 2023, 03:49:42 PMYou can also step into any building that lines the entire city and rest for like 10 seconds to get it all back.

Delves regenerate at the same rate as humans or slightly slower because their lower cap for endurance is lower. It takes a while.

If recuperating inside city buildings (or even on the city streets tbqh) is a long while to you I'm not sure we're ever gonna see eye to eye, man.

Quote from: dunecrawler on November 11, 2023, 05:02:12 PM

Quote from: Kavrick on November 11, 2023, 03:49:42 PMYou can also step into any building that lines the entire city and rest for like 10 seconds to get it all back.

Delves regenerate at the same rate as humans or slightly slower because their lower cap for endurance is lower. It takes a while.

You mean.... like 1 minute?

As someone who doesn't even consider a human stalker regenning outdoors in hot weather a slow regen...

I'm a little at a loss. Just duck inside before you hit the slower threshold if you want to make less painful as well. It'll take literally a minute.

Literally... This change was a needed balancing factor. Because Desert Elves could basically zoompunch city folk and get out before the guards arrived if they were fast enough with input. The stamina loss makes it possible, to KIND of catch them.

Quote from: Kavrick on November 11, 2023, 03:14:17 PM

Quote from: Triskelion on November 11, 2023, 03:08:58 PMThat's not true at all. Desert elves regenerate the same amount as anyone else. It's 8-12 depending on class.

I feel like I've experienced otherwise, but I'm not gonna argue code. I think my point still stands, Desert Elves losing a singular stamina out of their 200 while in an area they're not supposed to regularly be in is fine.

You're probably mistaking how stamina regen SPEED is % based, and how it slows dramatically when you drop lower than 50?

In reply to some other posts in this thread, it kinda-sorta didn't balance anything for the majority of delves? It just removed their ability to run for 0 cost inside of cities

It makes no meaningful difference either way. I bet that ten RL years can go by where nobody suffers actual consquences from the fact that it takes one point of movement to run in the city. What are you gonna do, start an Aladdin-esque chase sequence while you're at 20mv and end up exhausted at Meleth's Square where the evil soldiers catch up and kill you? Never gonna happen.

Walking and running. Walking takes one point, too.