While it's a "slippery slope" to some people, this thread is based entirely on the principle of opinion. Please respect each others' opinions! And ask questions concerning or "retort" in a respectful manner, thank you.
Biggest: Lack of proper grammar.
Minor: Rushing past without an emote when it's a lonely road. :cry:
Not using 'think' or 'feel' or 'bios' because there might be mindbenders.
When characters are not played in a believeable fashion, high-fantasy or not. When there is no substance to a character besides his amazing coded skills. When I feel nothing after a scene with these characters.
Quote from: "Is Friday"Biggest: Lack of proper grammar.
I think a lot players purposefully use a different grammar style for their characters according to what they believe their character's native speech style is.
Personally I like the above, but my pet peeve is when people don't use proper punctuation (ie. capitalization and periods to end their sentences).
Quote from: "mansa"Not using 'think' or 'feel' or 'bios' because there might be mindbenders.
Mindbenders can read your biographies? IC information I didn't want to know.
Quote from: "Salt Merchant"Quote from: "mansa"Not using 'think' or 'feel' or 'bios' because there might be mindbenders.
Mindbenders can read your biographies? IC information I didn't want to know.
I didn't say they can.
I just said people have told me they don't use certain roleplay tools that are in ArmageddonMUD because they don't want to feel like someone can 'take advantage' of them for it.
Quote from: "mansa"Quote from: "Salt Merchant"Quote from: "mansa"Not using 'think' or 'feel' or 'bios' because there might be mindbenders.
Mindbenders can read your biographies? IC information I didn't want to know.
I didn't say they can.
I just said people have told me they don't use certain roleplay tools that are in ArmageddonMUD because they don't want to feel like someone can 'take advantage' of them for it.
For me, that is
exactly why I use the "think" and "feel" commands. It's fun to think that maybe, just maybe, someone thinks I'm important enough to listen in, whether they're an IMM or a PC mindbender. I mean, yeah, it helps me flesh out my character better for myself, but the fact that another player could see it just makes it all the more fun.
Quote from: "mansa"Not using 'think' or 'feel' or 'bios' because there might be mindbenders.
This is the reason why I wish I used those tools more.
A tiny little derail: does anyone else out there have a hard time using think/feel? Could you PM me tips and tricks you used to get yourself in the habit? I would love it, if I could just get myself into the habit...
As for pet peeves, punctuation and capitalization. Not spelling really, which I do have a pet peeve about, but I typo so much that I have no right to complain. Also, "a lot" and "of course" are two words.
Quote from: "IntuitiveApathy"Quote from: "Is Friday"Biggest: Lack of proper grammar.
I think a lot players purposefully use a different grammar style for their characters according to what they believe their character's native speech style is.
Personally I like the above, but my pet peeve is when people don't use proper punctuation (ie. capitalization and periods to end their sentences).
I'm just talking about capitalizing and periods/punctuation.
Quote from: "bardess"Quote from: "mansa"Not using 'think' or 'feel' or 'bios' because there might be mindbenders.
This is the reason why I wish I used those tools more.
A tiny little derail: does anyone else out there have a hard time using think/feel? Could you PM me tips and tricks you used to get yourself in the habit? I would love it, if I could just get myself into the habit...
Same for me, and I'd appreciate any help, too.
Use think after you "Look" at someone.
Use feel when you're annoyed, or upset, or confused, or amused.
Sometimes I just use 'feel' for a range of 7 emotions, and nothing else. I just use it to state what current 'mood' I may be in, depending on the situation. I usually never explain why I'm feeling a certain way. It's always just...
>feel amused.
>emote smirks.
I don't use feel with more than 1 word. I like to make 'feel' be very quick.
Lately, though, I've been combining the feels and thinks with the ()'s.
think (amused) What an idiot.
think (bored) What an idiot.
think (curious) What is he talking about?
That way, I both feel and think in one command.
Biggest pet peeve: Making fun of someone for doing what their clan does, then they say my clan, which doesn't do it, does it.
Littlest: Seeing gith by themselves.
Biggest pet peeve: Anything related to trying to guess which class my character is. Like Templars asking my character to lead a patrol through a sandstorm to see if I'm really a ranger or people suddenly talking to me in cavilish when I mention that I'm a trader to see if I'm a 'merchant'.
Quote from: "Maybe42or54"Biggest pet peeve: Making fun of someone for doing what their clan does, then they say my clan, which doesn't do it, does it.
In response to that, I always got annoyed when people made fun of the Byn for having latrines and making their Runners clean it. Like in their clan somehow no one ever has to take a crap, and no one has to clean it up.
I would always respond with "What, are you too prissy to wipe your own ass?"
The real pet peeve in that was that a lot of people playing commoner PCs thought themselves above such work instead of being the dirty grubby filthy commoners that they should be.
I don't like it when people contact/cease my character to get an sdesc if he/she is masked/hooded. Although it's apparently allowed it just doesn't seem right.
Guild sniffing also disappoints me.
Finally, I get annoyed when people make connections between Earth and Zalanthas that don't exist, like when PCs say things suggesting that the sky is blue, or there is one moon. They're probably minor slip-ups but it's jarring.
People who go by nicknames to attain coded advantages in the game.
Quote from: "Hot_Dancer"People who go by nicknames to attain coded advantages in the game.
You can always wish up and have their nickname added to them by the immortals.
Or you can go OOC can you please use the addkeyword command.
Bringing modern ideas and thoughts to the game world.
BAR IDLING!
You live in a harsh world and you sit FOR DAYS at a freaking bar chit-chatting with everyone.
Social roles need to be EXTREMELY RARE.
It's not Armagossip its Armageddon as in Geddon out of da bar and go do something freaking constructive.
Quote from: "Vessol"Bringing modern ideas and thoughts to the game world.
BAR IDLING!
You live in a harsh world and you sit FOR DAYS at a freaking bar chit-chatting with everyone.
Social roles need to be EXTREMELY RARE.
It's not Armagossip its Armageddon as in Geddon out of da bar and go do something freaking constructive.
Hey we need norms! And morns.
Amish Overlord 8)
My pet peeve is that staff can see the PC's true name and when animating an npc will often use it...even if your PC has never given it to anyone ever.
But my greatest, always will be Eyes in sdesc...AAARRRGGGHHHHH
[edit: reverted back by Belenos, because I lamely edited rather than quoted, duh.]
(edit)
But least it was funny Belenos...and we all lerv ya anyway.
Quote from: "Vessol"Social roles need to be EXTREMELY RARE.
It's not Armagossip its Armageddon as in Geddon out of da bar and go do something freaking constructive.
Actually, for quite a few PC's, tavern sitting IS doing something constructive, in fact, their living is dependent on it. Merchants, information gatherers/sellers, entertainers, house recruiters, just to name a few. As for the idling part of it... well, the PC population of the bar is not something over which they have control. My point though is that tavern sitting is not reserved for only fluffy, frou-frou "social" types. It is a legitimate thing.
Failure of others to adequately appreciate my rp genius. Either icly or oocly.
Quote from: "Ender"Quote from: "Maybe42or54"Biggest pet peeve: Making fun of someone for doing what their clan does, then they say my clan, which doesn't do it, does it.
In response to that, I always got annoyed when people made fun of the Byn for having latrines and making their Runners clean it. Like in their clan somehow no one ever has to take a crap, and no one has to clean it up.
I would always respond with "What, are you too prissy to wipe your own ass?"
The real pet peeve in that was that a lot of people playing commoner PCs thought themselves above such work instead of being the dirty grubby filthy commoners that they should be.
I think it's assumed that most clans (at least, noble/merchant Houses and the militias) would own slaves whose job it is to shovel poo and nothing else. Maybe the Byn get harassed over it because they're commoners doing a job normally reserved for slaves?
People asking if I have branched a specific spell, and then asking or -demanding- that I do so.
Fuck -off- about it. Just because you happen to know how the spell tree works doesn't mean every Drovian in the world or whatever else is the same.
Shitty players.
Apart from the above is when you make an obvious mistake related to code ie Hi Joe
or K Joe (instead of l)
Or you don't sheathe your weapon
or drink joe the barrel headed big giant head
And people try to force you to make it ic.
I mean if you're wielding a five foot pole arm in bed, you'd probably be aware of it. Doesn't it make more sense to ignore it or ooc Hey you iddn't sheathe your weapon than to say, Amos why did you insist on bringing your voulge to bed?
Quote from: "Barzalene"Apart from the above is when you make an obvious mistake related to code ie Hi Joe
or K Joe (instead of l)
Or you don't sheathe your weapon
or drink joe the barrel headed big giant head
And people try to force you to make it ic.
I mean if you're wielding a five foot pole arm in bed, you'd probably be aware of it. Doesn't it make more sense to ignore it or ooc Hey you iddn't sheathe your weapon than to say, Amos why did you insist on bringing your voulge to bed?
The proper response is... that's not a voulge under my cloak baby.
Another big one for me, for some reason it makes me cringe.
Random guy in a hood walks up to you and smiles.
They say "Hey, how've you been!? Long time no see!"
l figure
They have two weapons in hand.
Are they trying to threaten me? What is going on?
By far the thing that pisses me off the most in any roleplaying game is a one-dimensional character. What I mean by this is the guy (or gal) my character meets who has no depth, no realistic flaws, no background beyond "Oh, I was born in 'nak, my mother was a hamster and my father smelled of elderberries. I grew up and joined the Byn." I also mean those characters who seem to do nothing outside their coded guild. The manly-man warrior who has no interests other than being a manly man warrior. At LEAST give the poor, dumb bastard a flaw like spice addiction, alcoholism or a penchant for buggering whores! Yeesh! And no, I'm not trying to pick only on warriors. I've met spell casters who seem to have absolutely ZERO personality. All they do is work on spells and harvest/craft resources for magick. Gimme a freakin' BREAK!
I've met ALOT of VERY dull people IRL and not a single one of them was THAT stale and flat! :evil:
Someone mentioned this and it bothers me too, so I'll jump on the band wagon: Those who don't think/feel because they fear mindbenders. Oh, so because there are people who -might- be able to hear/read/feel your thoughts and emotions you somehow have developed the capability of NOT thinking and feeling? Utterly ridiculous! I can't get more IC info specific here, but there's another aspect of how people handle benders that pisses me off. Maybe I'll bitch about it at an APM sometime, or after the first Zalanthas self-destructs.
I will say that continuous spelling/punctuation mistakes do bother me but I try not to get worked up about it. Although English is the language we use to play Arm, not everyone playing is a native English language speaker/writer.
People who respond with purely coded actions while you're trying to set up a scene, usually one that involves some risk to their character. One of my cooler PCs was killed essentially because he was about to murder someone, emoting and saying things, and the guy responded with "stand;open door;nneeneeesseessswwwssswwwwwssseee" (while in poor condition, no less).
Contact sdesc-sniffing and online-checking, and the fact that the staff somehow allows it. I just can't see how anyone can consider this ridiculous practice to be acceptable, it boggles the mind.
Really poor english. I accept that some players don't speak english so well, but I still find it very jarring when someone can't speak three words without a typo. Also, for the love of God, please start with an upper-case letter and end with some kind of punctuation.
Poorly played magickers, muls and half-giants. It always reminds me that something is inherently wrong with the resctriction system.
Wow, I'm a hater...
People who are under the notion that using your pc's coded skills (when it is perfectly realistic and IC to do so) is somehow p-gaming and twinkery in and of itself. If you don't want to use coded skills or you don't want people to use them, play a mush.
People who don't allow their characters to show any fear of <insert magick and magickers/templars/half-giants/muls/other nasty beasties here> because they believe their character is "too cool" or "too badass" to be afraid of anything. Or because they don't like to have their pc be deferential to anyone or anything no matter how lifelike and realistic that would be. Alot of these people force others to kill their pc when it could've been avoided had they played out the situation with any realism.
People who refuse to play along with any situation that has them on the "losing end". Such as being held up, tortured, swindled, etc. They just rely on the code and hammering out commands in an effort to "win".
Quote from: "Vessol"Bringing modern ideas and thoughts to the game world.
BAR IDLING!
You live in a harsh world and you sit FOR DAYS at a freaking bar chit-chatting with everyone.
Social roles need to be EXTREMELY RARE.
It's not Armagossip its Armageddon as in Geddon out of da bar and go do something freaking constructive.
Until the end of time, I will play the drunk, horrible fuck up that does nothing with his life.
If or if not I am this in real life is not important. Fuck everyone that thinks their commoner character is hoidy toidy and better than yours. Yes, I am elitist. Thats why I play Armageddon. Fuck you. Get killed. Die. Kill other people. Don't be afraid. Don't idle in a bar. Quit. Just quit, if you're going to idle in a bar. In real life, quit if you're going to idle in a bar. You're pathetic.
Brought to you by long island ice tea.
EDIT: Bah, nevermind.
I'm really annoyed by players that don't follow appropriate clan (or race, or class) documentation. Especially when they're in leadership positions...
I suck at grammar and punctuation but I try damn hard to make sure that I punctuate and make everything all nice and perfect. My biggest pet peeve is people that don't put in the effort to punctuate or capatalize.
the illiterate half-elf says in allundean: "i dont know what i did today"
2nd biggest pet peeve is people disregarding npc/vnpc presence, I see this most common in tribal RP but I've seen it some in the cities as well.
* Shitty grammarz
* Metagaming (by staff or players)
* Dwarves not obsessed with their focus
* Elves that trust/are trusted without trials
* Flawless beauties that are not upper echelon
* Spamming crafting, skills, or spells without emotes
Players who do nothing but gripe.
Players that gripe about players that do nothing but gripe. :wink:
People that side with an elf when the elf in a tavern when some shit talk starts.. I play elves mostly and I see this happening ALOT. I'd like to see racism be a little more popular.
guillty :cry:
Quote from: "psionic fungus"I'm really annoyed by players that don't follow appropriate clan (or race, or class) documentation. Especially when they're in leadership positions...
Haha. :) This is still funny.
Not using capitalization and punctuation. Bad grammar and spelling? That is fine. Some people have English as a second language or are sdylixec. Capital letter and period? That is just lazy, confusing to read, and ugly to look at. Moving your pinkie finger two centimeters to the left before typing the first letter in a sentence will not make your face fall off. It is like watching someone not using their fucking turn signal. I mean Jesus Christ, your hand is practically already there, just push it. It will consume a split second of thought, a fraction of a calorie, and a split second of your time.
People who ignore the environment irk me a little. Most of the time, I think they just forget that they are in a nasty, dusty, smelly world. Other times though, I think they are playing a different game and refuse to realize it. Walking through a dust storm to get to the Gaj and sitting down at the bar in your silk clothing and slippers is a really bad idea if you value those clothes.
I recall one instance years back when just such a person sat down to my big mean and ugly mercenary. I emoted shoving a mug of ale off the table and at their lap. Of course, the perky silk clad, silk slipper wearing noble aid did a ninja move and avoided disaster. A fight latter broke out and someone emoted tossing food at her, and again, she ninjaed out of it. If she was a secret noble assassin, awesome, good RP. On the other hand, if she was Lord Whatever's aid who skills included cooking and listen, it was a little irritating.
Really long emotes that are really a compilation of many smaller emotes. Doesn't give me much chance to respond to any singular portion of the vast emote there.
Not that there's anything necessarily "wrong" with that, but it does force me to either respond to each individual "smaller" emote (or ignore most of them and focus on the gist of the entire emote).
People so goddamn egocentric they think this post is about them.
1. People who stand immediately and scan after you do an emote while hidden in a crowded bar/tavern/street. Then scan again after they did not see *shadow* on their first attempt.
2. People who stand immediately and guard exits as soon as you do a hidden emote while in a crowded place. EG: bar/tavern/street.
3. People who never take in account VNPCS or NPCS.
Quote from: "mattrious"1. People who stand immediately and scan after you do an emote while hidden in a crowded bar/tavern/street. Then scan again after they did not see *shadow* on their first attempt.
I saw a guy do this in the tavern in Red Storm, and it was hilarious because the "Someone" in that particular emote wasn't a hidden PC, it was just a regular room echo. :lol: A room echo apparently designed to make people look silly? I love our imms.
(It is also possible that there was a sneaky person who came in and did the exact same emote every few days, but I prefer to think it was an echo.)
Inconsistency in roleplay.
For example : (disclaimer: this is overly dramatic, and if it happens to be true, than it is entirely coincidental)
Day 1:
Everyone rp loving magick.
Day 2:
Magick bashing on the forum.
Day 3:
Everyone rp hating magic
Day 4:
Magick loving on the forum.
Day 5:
Everyone rp loving magic again.
....
Repeat as necessary.
Very jarring.
People who walk into a tavern/clan hall/other crowded area, look at all the PCs in the room, then walk out again without a single emote.
Blatant guild sniffing during clan interviews.
Quote from: "Fathi"Blatant guild sniffing during clan interviews.
Sorry, but this always makes me think of something a little like this...
Leaning in towards you, sniffing lightly, the tall, hook-nosed templar says in sirihish:
"You smell of...you smell like..."
The tall, hook-nosed templar wrinkles his nose.
Eyes narrowing to slits, glaring at you, the tall, hook-nosed templar shouts, in sirihish:
"...the Guild!"
I hate it when people run away by spamming directions when it's pretty obvious I'm into some roleplay at the moment. :\
I love everyone and all of their distinct roleplaying styles.
I love people who try.
I hate myself for nitpicking.
QuoteBlatant guild sniffing during clan interviews.
I dunno, I consider this kind of akin to an accounting firm making sure they're hiring an accountant and not a construction worker.
People applying for a job will obviously have a distinct 'skillset' with some variety. That being said, I like the questions to be vague, and have the interviewee explain how their skillset will help.
Quote from: "Armaddict"QuoteBlatant guild sniffing during clan interviews.
I dunno, I consider this kind of akin to an accounting firm making sure they're hiring an accountant and not a construction worker.
People applying for a job will obviously have a distinct 'skillset' with some variety. That being said, I like the questions to be vague, and have the interviewee explain how their skillset will help.
Mostly I've seen it in situations where the person is being hired for what constitutes a subguild. It just seems odd to ask whether someone's better at disarming and bashing or climbing and hunting if you're hiring them as a crafter.
Just kinda looked to me like someone was trying to pick out mages or sneaky classes.
I have to agree with the Addict. I do want to know if you are supposed to be a damned fighter or not if I'm hiring you for a military role. I do want to know if you can fling a fireball if I'm hiring you to burn down Tulukies. And I do want to know if you can get into Templar Blackrobe's house unseen.
I really need to know if you have the skill to do what I'm hiring you to do.
Making lanterns doesn't help you kill that damned tribal. And sapping people over the head doesn't help you make lanterns.
I'm glad Armaddict and 7Venoms said that. I've been worried about how it's perceived when I do that, but their posts in this thread make me feel like I'm doing fine.
Basically - if I ask someone if they can ride, I'm not asking if they will eventually have that skill on their list (since I understand everyone eventually will). I need to know if I will have to spend time instructing them, helping them out, and NOT bringing them with me when I ride for awhile. I want to know how much effort -I- will have to put into the training process of this new-hire, thus taking me away from the rest of the things that I might need to do. If I know in advance, I can plan for it. If I ask someone if they can scout, it might be that I already have plenty of people in the group who can't scout, and I need a scout. Or, it might be that it's just really important that the people in my group be capable of noticing things. If the character lies and says "oh yeah I hunted with my family and always found the best carrus to kill" and it turns out he doesn't have the hunt or the scan skill, he may wind up dead the very first time I take him out hunting magickers in a blinding storm.
So if I need someone who has specific coded skills, then I'll find a way to ask, in the most IC-appropriate way. But I will ask, because if they don't have certain skills, then ICly, my character simply has no need for them.
There's a huge difference between asking someone if they can ride and asking them afterward to lead your patrol through a sandstorm just to see if they're a ranger or not, or switching to cavilish right after someone mentions that they are a 'trader'.
Quote from: "Malken"There's a huge difference between asking someone if they can ride and asking them afterward to lead your patrol through a sandstorm just to see if they're a ranger or not, or switching to cavilish right after someone mentions that they are a 'trader'.
There
can be depending on what the player/character does with that information. There's nothing wrong with an employer who hired someone as a scout/guide asking them to perform a duty only to discover they suck at the job. Now, that might tell the
player they are a ranger guild, but it simultaneously tells the
character that they might not be as good as they say they are.
Your character being angry with the non-ranger in this situation would be IC for the character, and not an example of guild sniffing. Your character grilling the non-ranger on what skills they actually
do have and why they are posing as something they aren't based on this one single test is
not very IC and is an example of guild sniffing.
The problem that employers have is several players are trying to pass off their character as one thing while being another. This becomes frustrating and problematic for the employer, because of discussions that go like this:
Employer: So, you want to join the House?
Hire: Yes.
Employer: Well, how do you think you'd be able to serve?
Hire: I can do whatever you want me to do.
Employer: Sure, but what have you done in the past - what are you good at?
Hire: Little bit of this, little bit of that really.
Employer: Well, do you have any experience in a specific area?
Hire: Well, mostly I've just done odd jobs for a few folks here and there.
Employer: What kind of odd jobs?
Hire: Oh, just run of the mill work.
This is infuriating to employers that simply want to know how they can use you in the organization. It's not too much to ask to at least be realistic when describing your strengths and weaknesses. You don't have to say, "I'm an assassin!" -- but you should at least indicate whether you know the sharp end of a sword, would be of ANY use standing watch on a caravan, or know how to make a table. You wouldn't walk into an interview today and expect to get hired with those kinds of dodgy answers to pointed questions, so why would you expect it to work in the game?
The employer in the example above is
not guild sniffing, they are simply acting like an employer. If you want money from someone for giving them a service, you need to accept that the person giving you money will want some assurances they are getting their money's worth. That doesn't mean divulging your every secret, but it does mean being honest with them as to what basic areas you might be of use.
-LoD
I would point out that it does suck for players of warriors or assassins who have the subguild hunter when they want work as a hunter, which they have the skills of, when their prospective employer then decides to test how good they are at hunting and scouting by having them lead them through a sandstorm. Not every hunter is a ranger. Someone can be a perfectly good hunter or scout without being a sandstorm guide. Hell, you could even have the subguild caravan guide and actually want to work as a guide but unless you are also a ranger you will have a hard time keeping your job because people OOC expect all guides to have the ability to walk through a sandstorm. A guide is mostly about knowing how to get somewhere, where to find things in an area, what creatures and spots to avoid, etc. It's not all about having the ranger only ability to run through sandstorms.
True, but on the other hand I can see how someone would want to hire a scout or caravan guide who doesn't get completely fucked over as soon as a sandstorm occurs. Sandstorms are really common, and I imagine any employer would prefer that their employees can overcome everyday obstacles. If I'm going to ride a cab, I sure as hell would like to know that the driver isn't going to crash if it starts to rain.
The problem here is the poor guild structure of Armageddon. The fact that only a single guild isn't completely disabled in the world's most common weather phenomenon is a bit silly. I've always believed that there should at the very least be a subguild that grants the ability to function in sandstorms the way rangers can, but unfortunately there isn't, and since sandstorms can last for RL days I don't think it's completely unfair that Mister Kadius would like most of his hunters to be capable of going into the desert without having to send a rescue party every other time to get them back.
I've never seen it as a huge problem, though. Guild sniffing is annoying, but I've personally never been turned down for a job offer due to not being a ranger or not speaking cavilish. Sure, I might never make it to Senior House Merchant or Hunter Squadroon Lieutenant because my character doesn't have all of the skills to supplement the job, but if you have a crafting subguild then Kadius will probably hire you, and if you're a combat class that has skinning and forage then you should be perfectly capable of finding a job as a hunter. I think most of the time when someone tries to guild-sniff you, they do so because they want to know if you'll become the future super hunter or master merchant, or if you'll just be one of the ordinary employees.
Yup to LoD's post
And to add a bit. My leader PCs have done it, but not always for the same reason.
If you have a byn sarge for instance. Not only do you need to know what somebody can do well to balance your unit for many types of contracts. But you also want to help to tailor the training...after all, thats what you are paid the 300 coins to do. And as a sergeant in a military clan, you should be telling them what, when and how to train. I've seen when they don't and the clan turns into a mess fast believe me.
QuoteEmployer: So, you want to join the House?
Hire: Yes.
Employer: Well, how do you think you'd be able to serve?
Hire: I can do whatever you want me to do.
Employer: Sure, but what have you done in the past - what are you good at?
Hire: Little bit of this, little bit of that really.
Employer: Well, do you have any experience in a specific area?
Hire: Well, mostly I've just done odd jobs for a few folks here and there.
Employer: What kind of odd jobs?
Hire: Oh, just run of the mill work.
Quoted for truthful irony.
That conversation is almost word-for-word what I've experienced, more than once. Because of that, I've learned to be more specific about what I'm asking. If it sounds like guild-sniffing, oh well. But I'd rather get specific information to help me determine if someone at the very LEAST, has the potential to have what it takes, to be in my group. He doesn't need to be good at much. And he doesn't need to have a specific guild. But he does need to be "this-oriented" or "that-oriented" - by that I mean, he would need to have SOME combat skill other than the shield-use that comes with a merchant class. If I was hiring for a combat-oriented group. If I was a merchant and was hiring someone to train to take my place after I get promoted, I would need someone familiar with the types of crafting things my house made - so the appropriate sub-guild, OR the merchant guild..and probably a few of the non-crafting merchanting skills such as value and haggle.
I've had potential employees pull that shit before.
Needless to say, I didn't hire them.
Ditto, had that spiel pulled on me by potential recruits, it doesn't go over well.
For myself, I'm not necessarily looking for a particular skillset--my philosophy is more that if you're a good player, I'll make a way to use you, dangit. But I want to know something at minimum about what you can do, or what you'd like to do, or what you think you might be able to do.
What if you're a magicker of doom, or a burglar or an assassin who wants a job as an aide. Do you say, "well, I used to kill people for a living but I wan't really good at it?" Do you say, "When I come and wake you up in the morning, I can be very quiet?"
Or do you say, "I worked for someone running their errands?" Sometimes a little of this or that is really what your pc has done. Though, yes, you can work on putting a slightly better spin on things.
For the people above, getting an honest job should be difficult.
Well, the magicker yes. But a mundane non-combat non-crafter is probably what most of the npc world is too.
I love me some warriors, but sometimes you want to do something else. Try something else. See what other guilds are like. If we say it should be hard for a coded burglar to get an honest job are we saying you -are- your skillset? It was always my understanding that your pc is more than a skillset and that sometimes the skillset is beside the point. I always thought that was cool.
Sometimes I RP that people with poor grammar are actually speaking funny, and make fun of them. :P
(ok, one time)
-Ken
Quote from: "Barzalene"I love me some warriors, but sometimes you want to do something else. Try something else. See what other guilds are like. If we say it should be hard for a coded burglar to get an honest job are we saying you -are- your skillset? It was always my understanding that your pc is more than a skillset and that sometimes the skillset is beside the point. I always thought that was cool.
Trying to get a job as an aide is kind of a poor example, just because "aide" requires no actual skills. But I get what you're saying. A better response is something like this:
QuoteEmployer: So, you want to join the House?
Hire: Yes.
Employer: Well, how do you think you'd be able to serve?
Hire: Well, I'm very good at dealing with people, so I can serve customers well, taking orders and the like.
Employer: Oh, that's good. Do you have any experience making things?
Hire: Crafting? I've dabbled in some work with animal skins, but really I don't know much.
Employer: Do you speak any languages other than common? Sometimes we need to deal with elves, tribals, and such.
Hire: No, but I'm willing to work on learning.
Employer: Well, I think we can put you to good use. The pay is blah blah blah...
So the employee is actually an assassin/armor maker, maybe. But there's been no need to go into that yet, and still the employee has presented some willingness and some non-coded skills that will be important in the job. No character is the sum of his/her skillset, of course.
When you give a fake name and someone has no reason to suspect you they
You ask a man "Whats your name?"
a man says "My names Amos"
l Amos
There is no amos here.
You say "I think your lying you bastard!"
That drives me up the FUCKING WALLS! This one PC constantly did it I remember and I know that player to this day and I can't take any 'advice' they give seriously.
Stop using the damn system people. Its bad roleplaying.
If you go by a name for any extended period of time you should probably add it as a keyword.
l amos
No Amos is here.
addkeyword amos
The problem being when it's a FAKE NAME you don't GO BY and should not be CONTACTABLE AS or RECOGNIZEABLE AS.
Well sure. That's why I said extended period of time. If you tell one guy you're known as Amos, but don't go by the name Amos, and never plan to see the guy you told again, that's fine. If you tell a dozen people that you go bu Amos and interact with them on multiple occasions, guess what, soon enough you'll be known as Amos whether you want to go by it or not.
Quote from: "Armaddict"The problem being when it's a FAKE NAME you don't GO BY and should not be CONTACTABLE AS or RECOGNIZEABLE AS.
So, if you give someone a name when they are right in front of you and can see you, then you should add ekyword, because you are now recognizable to someone.
Just to add to that, if you gave someone a name over the way, then I think that is fine if you don't addkeyword. They don't know who you are, what you look like, so it would be impossible to find you again, I think.
Quote from: "Southie"If you go by a name for any extended period of time you should probably add it as a keyword.
I'm a keyword addict. Anytime my PC is called by a different nickname (damn near every day), I addkeyword. I think I'm up to twelve or thirteen.
Quote from: "Southie"Well sure. That's why I said extended period of time. If you tell one guy you're known as Amos, but don't go by the name Amos, and never plan to see the guy you told again, that's fine. If you tell a dozen people that you go bu Amos and interact with them on multiple occasions, guess what, soon enough you'll be known as Amos whether you want to go by it or not.
I usually addkeyword immediately before/after giving a fake name to someone, just so they can't use OOC methods to determine that it is, in fact, a fake name. No matter what.
Even if I do or do not add the name as a keyword it is BAD ROLEPLAYING for that person to get suspicious if they look at you and notice that it isn't a keyword.
If I give a fake name to someone in RL, and they look at me they can't automatically go "OMG UR LYING TIME TO ARREST U OR THREATEN U!"
:roll:
Like I said, I have problems taking anything the player who did this says seriously anymore, I simply have to laugh when they are being hypocritical.
People who join your clan, log in for 10-15 minutes a day during which they ask you if there is anything interesting going on. If nothing particularly huge is going on at that exact moment, they then rant about how boring their job is and then log out. Even if you tell them, "No, but we'll be doing ____ come dawn," or whatever.
Quote from: "Fathi"People who join your clan, log in for 10-15 minutes a day during which they ask you if there is anything interesting going on. If nothing particularly huge is going on at that exact moment, they then rant about how boring their job is and then log out. Even if you tell them, "No, but we'll be doing ____ come dawn," or whatever.
QFMFT
On the name/keyword thing:
If you tell me your name is Amos while we're sitting at the bar, and I say "So, Amos - how long have you been in the city?" and you ANSWER me...then you should have Amos as your keyword.
If you answer to a name, then refusing to add it immediately (or prior to giving the name out) as a keyword is using OOC means to avoid IC interaction, and therefore cheating.
As far as addkeyword goes - I thought you can only do that to yourself, and not to someone else? I hope it can't be added to someone other than yourself, in any case. If you could add it to someone else, it would be pretty easy for any twink to add "gortok" to someone in their hunting party they didn't like.
QuoteIf you answer to a name, then refusing to add it immediately (or prior to giving the name out) as a keyword is using OOC means to avoid IC interaction, and therefore cheating.
I disagree! Strongly fucking disagree.
Quote from: "Armaddict"QuoteIf you answer to a name, then refusing to add it immediately (or prior to giving the name out) as a keyword is using OOC means to avoid IC interaction, and therefore cheating.
I disagree! Strongly fucking disagree.
Why?
IRL, if you tell me your name is Jimbo to my face, I should be able to recognize you as Jimbo. My recognizing you is symbolized IG by addkeyword.
Quote from: "Armaddict"I disagree! Strongly fucking disagree.
I second this. If I had to add every name that my PC has ever responded to, my keyword list would be a catalogue of Zalanthan obscenities.
Jokes and extremes aside, thanks to psionics, keywords are a largely permenant link to your character. Just because you spent 20 minutes sitting near someone at the bar doesn't mean they should have the means to reach out and touch your PC at a moment's notice.
If it's a nickname your character goes by all the time, okay, sure. But I'm all in favor of disposable names used for disposable conversations.
Secretive organizations make use of aliases all the time. Many times new names are used for each individual job. There is no reason why this shouldn't be possible...
QuoteQuote:
If you answer to a name, then refusing to add it immediately (or prior to giving the name out) as a keyword is using OOC means to avoid IC interaction, and therefore cheating.
I disagree! Strongly fucking disagree.
I disagree as well.
Problem is, technicly, YOU checking to see if it is a keyword IS using OOC methods to determine something IC and therefore cheating.
IRL if I go to a bar and tell someone that my name is Amos, and I anwser to it for the night. does that make my name really Amos? No, it does not. The next day I could go to the same bar and call myself JOJO Monkeyboy and refuse to notice or respond to any idiot yelling Amos. And why is this, because there is no keyword nametag stapled to your forehead IRL. Sadly, something you can do IRL...legally... you cannot do in game. And that is CHANGE you name.
I really wish we had a temp keyword command in game myself. Sort of like the mood command.
Matter of fact, NOT having a tempkeyword ability has been a peeve of mine for a very long time.
Quote from: "X-D"Quote
Problem is, technicly, YOU checking to see if it is a keyword IS using OOC methods to determine something IC and therefore cheating.
IRL if I go to a bar and tell someone that my name is Amos, and I anwser to it for the night. does that make my name really Amos? No, it does not.
No, but it does mean that if I see you at the same bar tomorrow, and say "Hey Amos, sitting at the same chair huh, what's the matter, they superglue you to it?" then you WILL know that I am talking specifically to you. And that means - you recognize YOURSELF as the "Amos" in my end of the discussion. You might refuse to answer me, or pretend that you didn't spend an hour talking to me last night and buying me drinks. But you -will- know, that I know, that you told me your name is Amos yesterday, and that Amos is exactly how *I* know you. Your name could be Miko, or you might even be a cross-dresser named Kiki on her day off. But I know you as Amos, whether that's your name or not. And code-wise, I -should- be able to type "look amos" and the code would know that I'm talking about you. The method of the code knowing that I'm referring to you, is with the keywords. I cannot add a keyword to your pfile. You have control over that. And if you refuse to add it, I will ask the IMMs to kindly do it for you.
Quote from: "Lizzie"Quote from: "X-D"Quote
Problem is, technicly, YOU checking to see if it is a keyword IS using OOC methods to determine something IC and therefore cheating.
IRL if I go to a bar and tell someone that my name is Amos, and I anwser to it for the night. does that make my name really Amos? No, it does not.
No, but it does mean that if I see you at the same bar tomorrow, and say "Hey Amos, sitting at the same chair huh, what's the matter, they superglue you to it?" then you WILL know that I am talking specifically to you. And that means - you recognize YOURSELF as the "Amos" in my end of the discussion. You might refuse to answer me, or pretend that you didn't spend an hour talking to me last night and buying me drinks. But you -will- know, that I know, that you told me your name is Amos yesterday, and that Amos is exactly how *I* know you. Your name could be Miko, or you might even be a cross-dresser named Kiki on her day off. But I know you as Amos, whether that's your name or not. And code-wise, I -should- be able to type "look amos" and the code would know that I'm talking about you. The method of the code knowing that I'm referring to you, is with the keywords. I cannot add a keyword to your pfile. You have control over that. And if you refuse to add it, I will ask the IMMs to kindly do it for you.
BUT! When someones uses l Amos and sees its not your keyword and REACT IG to it, THAT is when it is cheating and abusing the system. You can't deny that.
I agree that is bad roleplay - not exactly cheating though, because people would simply be reacting the only IC way they can think of, to someone intentionally abusing the code.
Personally, I find it annoying as hell when the dark-haired tall man says "Hi I'm Amos" and I try
tell amos (with a smile) Hi I'm Talia.
and I get..
You don't see that here.
or whatever the return is.
So I think..huh - he must be spelling it wrong.
tell amso (with a smile) Hi I'm Talia.
You don't see that here.
tell tall (with a smile) Hi I'm Talia.
You tell the tall, ugly undead raptor, with a smile, in sirihish, "Hi I'm Talia."
In summary:
If you give someone a specific name you wish for THEM to call you, then add it as a keyword. If that means you have 200 keywords before your character dies, tough.
I disagree, for the exact reasons I stated before.
Another problem that presents itself is in the docs it clearly states that true names hold power and psionists can use those names against you. Therefore it would be completely reasonable to use fake names when you can't trust someone with your true name. Adding that keyword gives that person the coded ability to well, use psionic powers which is what you are trying to avoid in the first place.
So it is defiantly not bad RPing if I give a fake name. It is bad RP when someone acts up because they can't use it as a keyword.
And justifying that with 'not adding a keyword is cheating though so its a reaction' is BS I think. That would be like me killing a newbie or a twink JUST because OOCly they annoy me. Its just bad RP.
Then explain to me how to resolve that problem I mentioned. I'll put it here just to see it more clearly:
>The tall dark-haired man says, in sirihish, "Amos. Nice to meet ya."
tell amos Talia. Same to you, Amos.
You don't see that person here.
tell amso Talia. Same to you, Amos.
You don't see that person here.
tell tall Talia. Same to you, Amos.
You tell the tall, wiry female elf, in sirihish, "Talia. Same to you, Amos."
The tall wiry female elf says to you, in allundean, "Xiry eoiw orrzz losspk."
ooc misdirect
tell dark Talia. Same to you, Amos.
etc. etc.
and in the meantime, the guy who pretended he is amos, thinks my character has been ignoring him all this time, because he hasn't seen me respond, all because I was TRYING to respect his use of *A* name he referred to himself with, and using it as a keyword. Which is what I HOPE people do once they find out my character's name, so THEY don't confuse ME with that other green-haired vixin.
Wrong again, I will not know your talking to me, Because my name is not Amos, for tonight its JOJO Monkeyboy and that is the name I am bothering to remember for the night, Or, if I do remember you, I'll likely give something completley different in order to confuse and piss you off so you will leave me alone. Tomorrow it will be Ginka...and by then I will likely have forgotten I ever even used Amos, and soon after that Any of the others. IRL I've given false names before, and the fact is, often, after an hour or two of NOT using it, I will no longer hear it, specialy not in a bar setting. I actually have to THINK about the fact that I am using another name...but I will hear my real name or nicks that I accept as my names as well because I do not have to THINK about them. And there in lays the problem. Your PC CANNOT forget any pseudoname once added by code, EVER for any reason. Your PC could live for 50 game years and NEVER EVER give that name again, to the point where you, the player have LONG forgotten that you ever used it, but if its in keywords...Code wise he would still answer to it, and that is unrealistic in the extreme.
Quote from: "X-D"Wrong again, I will not know your talking to me, Because my name is not Amos, for tonight its JOJO Monkeyboy and that is the name I am bothering to remember for the night, Or, if I do remember you, I'll likely give something completley different in order to confuse and piss you off so you will leave me alone. Tomorrow it will be Ginka...and by then I will likely have forgotten I ever even used Amos, and soon after that Any of the others. IRL I've given false names before, and the fact is, often, after an hour or two of NOT using it, I will no longer hear it, specialy not in a bar setting. I actually have to THINK about the fact that I am using another name...but I will hear my real name or nicks that I accept as my names as well because I do not have to THINK about them. And there in lays the problem. Your PC CANNOT forget any pseudoname once added by code, EVER for any reason. Your PC could live for 50 game years and NEVER EVER give that name again, to the point where you, the player have LONG forgotten that you ever used it, but if its in keywords...Code wise he would still answer to it, and that is unrealistic in the extreme.
But in any coded use of keywords that I am aware of, you are never made aware of what keyword is used to interact with you, especially not in an IC sense. In this way, it
is realistic, plenty so. Say I were to give you a completely fake name one night at a bar, but you manage to remember it, even if I don't. If I see you again, you will remember that as my name--you can look at me, thinking that it is me by that name, and you can call me over by that name, but I might not answer to it.
The same idea works in the game. Say your character's real name is Amos and they give the fake name Bill. You will
never know if someone is typing "look amos" or "look bill" to look at you, and it doesn't matter; the keyword they use only refers to what
they know you as. If they say "tell bill Hey, what's up?", then that doesn't mean you're answering to Bill; it just means they were talking to you. If they say "tell bill Hey, Bill, how's it going?" and you don't remember going by Bill--or decide not to remember going by Bill--you are always welcome to roleplay as if they have you mistaken for someone else, or anything of the sort. Just because it's a coded keyword for you doesn't mean you're answering to it.
And if that bothers you that much--that a keyword your character wouldn't know they have still exists--all of that could be fixed by allowing a "remove keyword" command that only lets you remove keywords added after character creation (as in, none of the ones in your sdesc).
Then X-D, I'd love to hear how you would resolve what I have presented twice already, using the current code. Because I have come across that frequently, and I have never come across what you have mentioned.
So far, everyone whose "name" wasn't really their "name" was either a forgotten-to-add keyword, or a misspelling, or an outright refusal to add it. And never was it someone who didn't answer to that name, whenever someone called them by that name.
To say that we should all cater to the exception, and fuck the norm, seems pretty unfair, no?
Quote from: "Lizzie"Then X-D, I'd love to hear how you would resolve what I have presented twice already, using the current code.
I'm not X-D, but okay:
Quote from: "An Example"
>The tall dark-haired man says, in sirihish, "Amos. Nice to meet ya."
tell amos Talia. Same to you, Amos.
You don't see that person here.
keyword tall
1.tall - the tall, wiry elf
2.tall - the tall, undead mantis
3.tall - the tall dark-haired man
4.tall - the confused-looking dwarf
tell 3.tall Talia. Same to you, Amos.
You tell the tall, dark-haired man, in sirihish, "Talia. Same to you, Amos."
This is a non-issue. Misdirects happen, and people know that.
No
Read the home page on fairness.
As to your problem. I don't care. Its an OOC annoyance to you that you cannot use a certain keyword. You still have the sdesc, you KNOW they are keywords. You know there is a keyword command. Use them. But wanting to force me to addkeyword to cater to your ideas of fairness and making sure you can indeed use code when I think you should not be able to is "to me" on par with power emotes.
Till there is a remove keyword command
Quoteall of that could be fixed by allowing a "remove keyword" command that only lets you remove keywords added after character creation (as in, none of the ones in your sdesc).
And that is exactly what I was talking about BTW.
Then we have to go with using a simply false name.
Quoteand you don't remember going by Bill--or decide not to remember going by Bill--you are always welcome to roleplay as if they have you mistaken for someone else, or anything of the sort. Just because it's a coded keyword for you doesn't mean you're answering to it.
Wrong, the code forces you to go by it...Like somebody was saying about another PC telling him he was a lier because he used code to check and see if it was a false name (OOC method there) So, My PC tells you his name is bill. A month later your PC tell another about Bill and gives a vague desc. Blue eyes and red hair.
Now when that PC sees anybody with blue eyes and red hair, or even one of the two, he sits and does either keyword bill or look bill. If that PC does not have the keyword Bill...then he waits for the next one.
Hell, a long time ago -I- even did such, at least 2 times picking out wanted fugitives that my PC had never met...AND they had even gone to the trouble of sdesc changes. Today I try REALLY hard not to do so because frankly...its LAME.
We'll just have to disagree to agree.
Quote from: "Vessol"Another problem that presents itself is in the docs it clearly states that true names hold power and psionists can use those names against you. Therefore it would be completely reasonable to use fake names when you can't trust someone with your true name. Adding that keyword gives that person the coded ability to well, use psionic powers which is what you are trying to avoid in the first place..
I'd like to see this documentation, because I can't seem to find it. The name taken at character creation simply is not given much importance by the code as I've seen it. Keywords are a convenience for other players to reference your character without needing to look through a keyword list.
On another note, adding a nickname to your keywords does not give them your character's true name. So apparently, they don't need your true name to use psionic powers. You seem to have stated as such. All they need is a keyword. Even "cloak" would do if you had your hood up. So this business about true names is moot. You're just trying to keep players from using the code on you when by all rights, they should be able to.
Also, restricting keywords verges very close to cheating. If the words used in the sdesc were long, such as the iridescent, nigrescent man, and the character only went by a long string of nicknames that were never added to the keyword list, that would be cheating. So, you can see that isn't a solution. It is too easily abused and people will abuse it.
Oh, a solution to the player who refuses to add a nickname to their character's keywords is to allow players to reference other PCs with keywords of their choosing. I don't know what kind of resources that would take, but it's an idea.
EDITED : My brain's broken. I needed some time to clean it up.
http://www.armageddon.org/help/show.php/magick%20basics
The endless research into magick and spellcasting has revealed certain consistencies among the symbols. As is well known, true names of things give power over them, and it is this principle that has been recently theorised to be the case with Magick. Each symbol may in fact be the true name of an elemental or spiritual power.
QuoteOn another note, adding a nickname to your keywords does not give them your character's true name. So apparently, they don't need your true name to use psionic powers. You seem to have stated as such. All they need is a keyword. Even "cloak" would do if you had your hood up. So this business about true names is moot. You're just trying to keep players from using the code on you when by all rights, they should be able to.
This is true. Characters only have 1 'truename'
QuoteAlso, restricting keywords verges very close to cheating. If the words used in the sdesc were long, such as the iridescent, nigrescent man, and the character only went by a long string of nicknames that were never added to the keyword list, that would be cheating. So, you can see that isn't a solution. It is too easily abused and people will abuse it.
You can survive wars for having long keywords in your sdesc. "moustached" - I'm looking at you, Olafson.
Olafson had a character survive because his sdesc was way too long to type in such a short period of time.
Quote from: "mansa"http://www.armageddon.org/help/show.php/magick%20basics
The endless research into magick and spellcasting has revealed certain consistencies among the symbols. As is well known, true names of things give power over them, and it is this principle that has been recently theorised to be the case with Magick. Each symbol may in fact be the true name of an elemental or spiritual power.
This is a theory stated in the documentation. Food for thought for characters in the game. Even if the theory were correct, it either only applies to the elements, or the truename of other objects is something separate from the name they are called by. It has nothing to do with the OOC convenience of adding a nickname you have your character go by to the keyword list. My roundabout point was that it was a purely OOC consideration from the start.
Quote]You can survive wars for having long keywords in your sdesc. "moustached" - I'm looking at you, Olafson.
Olafson had a character survive because his sdesc was way too long to type in such a short period of time.
Well, if there was some proof that he did this on purpose and abused it intentionally, then it would be considered cheating. However, if the full sdesc was "the moustached <whatever gender of whatever race>," I'd be surprised.
Quote from: "Dalmeth"So this business about true names is moot.
I honestly think what Vessol posted possibly verges on sensitive info, so I'm not gonna add to it. All I'm gonna say is: please don't post unless you're absolutely certain you have a clue what you're posting about, Dalmeth.
Any time you are dealing with a person who is giving a false name and has their identity somehow concealed you are dealing with a situation where it is completely feasible that the name should not be able to be used as a keyword.
Hopefully in 2.Arm there will be additional ways to disguise or conceal one's identity, and thus more reasons why permanently attaching a keyword to someone when they use an alias is completely counter-productive and illogical.
Peace.
I think I agree with those who say that if someone is using a disposable fake name that you'll have to find some other way to identify them. That's the point of a fake name.
Which seems more likely
Detective Joe: We did a search and we didn't find anyone in the area with the name Amos Malik.
Victim Bob: Well, that's what he said his name was.
Detective Joe: What else can you tel me about him?
Victim Bob: Well, he had a brown teeth from chewing tobacco and a tattoo of a kank on his forearm. He was a bout 5' 9" and about your weight.
or
Detective Joe: We did a search and we didn't find anyone in the area with the name Amos Malik.
Victim Bob: Well, that's what he said his name was.
Detective Joe: Nope, no records. Listen next time you see him, rename him Amos Malik. Then we can track him down. No worries.
Victim Bob: I'll hunt him down and add him a keyword!
As stated by the documentation, truenames hold power over most things. It's reflected both by the docs and by in-game code that I won't provide details for here. I've had several characters whose background included that as the reason for not using their real name, and it has always been approved without comment.
To check for keywords in order to influence your in-game actions, such as the infamous story about someone pointing somebody out as a liar because they told a "false name", is cheating. Everybody can tell why. I consider it almost as bad form to purposefully avoid adding your used names as keywords in order to avoid being recognized. If you've introduced yourself to ten people as Amos then you should definitely add the keyword.
Another peeve of mine is when players avoid writing bios or using the think command about a subject so that mindbenders won't find out. If you won't take the in-character consequences of your actions, why are you even playing a roleplaying game?
Look, if my character gives your character a false name in an interview or otherwise and you use the code to have your character somehow know that mine is lying, I will make SURE that my evil 'gick is going to dissolve the flesh off your character's bones.
But worse than this...are those who will scan, scowl suspiciously, flee or otherwise react to the following:
The round-eared elf looks down at someone.
Yeah. I know the code allows everyone in an area/room to see that there is 'someone' there who can't be seen by you when apparently someone else can see them. But guess what? There are people in real life who see things all the time, that to you, simply are not there. When someone irl is staring off into space do you ask them, "Wh-who is here?! Who do you see?! WHAT DO THEY LOOK LIKE, DAMN YOU!!!"
I'd love to see the code changed so you CANNOT get any message about someone you can see looking at someone else that you cannot see. But until that happens, let's try to be realistic about it. Unless someone your character can see gives more indication other than simply 'looking' at someone your character cannot see, there just ain't nobody else there!
The main problem with people not wanting to add keywords seems to be a Way issue.
This is a valid issue; a good way to protect yourself against mindbenders is to give false names.
Solution: an addkeyword command on either end (doesn't really matter where, though I'm favouring the person whom the other is fooling) which works for all interactions except psi and other instances wherein it could be argued that the user needs a persona in mind.
I fail to see how adding a nickname is forcing your character to remember that name. If you told me your name is Henry IRL, I may say, "Hey, there is Henry." I'll 'look henry,' and see Henry.
Now, if I go up to you and talk to you, "Hey Henry, How you doin'?"
It is up to 'your' pc to decide if that is their name or not. If it is a nickname you use, don't respond, but -I- will know you as Henry.
That is exactly what I'm trying to say Maybe2xxxx...
If I know a specific tall, muscular man as Amos - the one with the kank tattoo on his forearms, shaggy grey hair, green eyes, who does -not- have the Tuluki caste tattooes and is NOT that Kadian Merchant...
Then I should be able to "tell amos Nice to meet you." and the code would direct me to THAT tall, muscular man.
If that is how he introduced himself to me, then I should be able to use that name to interact with him, code-wise. I shouldn't have to type "keyword tall room", only to miss once again, because JUST as I hit the enter key, some OTHER tall guy walks into the room, or the one I wanted to target was 3.tall, but 2.tall just logged out, making 3.tall the tall gangly defiler and not the tall, muscular man.
This happens MUCH MUCH more often than someone intentionally giving a fake name that he plans on never using again and therefore doesn't add to his list of keywords. In fact, as I've already said, I've never encountered someone who didn't answer to a fake name that he provided to my character.
As for true names, the point -is- moot, because we can codedly interact with tall, hooded, cloak, mask, gangly, green, and whatever fake name appears as a keyword on a person's list. None of those are true names, and if ONLY true names have some special secret use, then that wouldn't change a bit.
The point is that when someone gives you a fake name, other people shouldn't be able to use that to track them down. You shouldn't be able to use the fake name to find their mind, because their mind does not have that label... They wont respond to it. It wont work.
This is just an OOC annoyance that you are going to have to live with. There is no way for anyone to set up a temporary keyword for the use of false names, and that is what the situations described require. Just because you met a guy named Amos with a kank-tattoo, and later you see some dirty guy with a similar tattoo, it doesn't mean it is Amos. If a PC dies in the first two hours of playing, do you treat them and their corpse as the same person?
There would be -no- point in ever giving a fake name if they worked just like real names. Try using a fake name IRL at a bar sometime. When people run into you days later and call you "Bob" or whatever, you may have no idea what the fuck they are talking about, and say something like "No, man, I'm not Bob... Must be someone else".
With psionics, giving a false name is the Zalanthan equivalent of giving out a fake phone number. Ladies? This happens to my friend all the time (ha ha ha!), he buys girls drinks at the bar, gets their number, and guess what... It's not their number. How cruel. How unfair.
There are so many ways that being able to add a keyword to someone else could be abused, and there are so many situations where using a false name is completely appropriate, I just cannot fathom how anyone can continue to say that having false names should be impossible.
"tell Amos" is an OOC game command. It has nothing to do with the IC reality of Zalanthas. "tell Amos" not functioning is nothing more than an OOC inconvenience, so get over it.
PF, I understand your point of view now. Here is my idea.
How about "add falsename"
help falsename
Adding a falsename would allow PCs, that can see you, to use the falsename. Players cannot use the falsename while using the way.
Quote from: "psionic fungus"You shouldn't be able to use the fake name to find their mind, because their mind does not have that label... They wont respond to it. It wont work.
Good point, because whenever I try on a new hooded cloak, I always make sure to think about it real hard so I can attach its label to my mind.
I agree that you shouldn't be able to identify someone you've never met using a fake name that you heard from someone else. I do, however, think that if someone gives you a fake name and you spend an hour chatting with them, you should be able to use that name to contact them because that's the name you associate with their figure and their psionic presence.
You should therefore be able to add a personal keyword for another character that only you can use to reference them. It would be a part of your pfile as a pointer towards their sdesc, but it wouldn't actually affect the target's pfile.
QuoteIf I know a specific tall, muscular man as Amos - the one with the kank tattoo on his forearms, shaggy grey hair, green eyes, who does -not- have the Tuluki caste tattooes and is NOT that Kadian Merchant...
Your lover says, in sirihish:
"Hey, baby, how was your day?"
addkeyword baby
Your buddy at the bar says, in sirihish:
"Hey there drunkass. I only see you here at the bar, you drunkass."
addkeyword drunkass
That asshole who harasses you all the time says, in sirihish:
"Shut the fuck up boyo."
addkeyword boyo
Yup, you know and react to all the little names people decide to call you in the game. Does that mean they should all be keywords? Nope. Neither should fake names. It's not cheating. The above examples are 'easy' ones, ones that you, in particular, Lizzie, are probably rolling your eyes at. But the concept remains the same. Some people know you as things other than your name, and use those ways they know you as instead of a name. It's not cheating to lead someone towards something like that, it's a social option.
If you get given a name, then realize you can't use it as a keyword, USE A DIFFERENT keyword. Using their lack of keyword to find out they're using a fake name and therefore letting people know you think they're being shady is the closest thing to CHEATING that I have seen in this discussion. Though even then, I'm not so sure it's cheating.
Hmm...what the hell? I can't find that guy's mind...weird.
We aren't talking about the same idea here Armaddict.
If you -introduce- yourself to me as Boyo, I should be able to recognize you as boyo.
If I give you a nickname, then I should use a keyword you already have, as it is -my- choice to give you a new name.
There is no difference.
I -introduce- myself as something YOU know me as. It is what YOU call me.
Quote from: "GoodwinX"Quote from: "psionic fungus"You shouldn't be able to use the fake name to find their mind, because their mind does not have that label... They wont respond to it. It wont work.
Good point, because whenever I try on a new hooded cloak, I always make sure to think about it real hard so I can attach its label to my mind.
I agree that you shouldn't be able to identify someone you've never met using a fake name that you heard from someone else. I do, however, think that if someone gives you a fake name and you spend an hour chatting with them, you should be able to use that name to contact them because that's the name you associate with their figure and their psionic presence.
You should therefore be able to add a personal keyword for another character that only you can use to reference them. It would be a part of your pfile as a pointer towards their sdesc, but it wouldn't actually affect the target's pfile.
I love this idea, and personally think it would resolve all of this. It would resolve people having to add keywords to themselves, and allow people who have been introduced to the individual with a fake name to manage keywords<--EDIT so it only affects them.
Is it foolproof? No. There would probably be no way to stop people from giving someone a temp name of kankfecker.
I would much rather be able to do a "l Amos", then have the code return something about not seeing that person. It would be much less jarring, and I would also not have to deal with navigating multiple sdescs in one room that might share keywords.
In a place where it is acceptable to Way someone you have only seen as "the tall figure in a hooded cloak", I don't think it is too much to ask to allow some sort of KEYWORD management.
We do have alias management. Check "help alias" for info. The problem with this, is if I am trying to talk to a very specific tall muscular man, the one with the tattoo of the kank on his forearm, who is definitely a half-elf, whose hair is very long and black with dyed-green streak down the left side, then aliasing amos as tall muscular man will show the 'wrong' amos in addition to the right one. My character knows the difference between the tall muscular man with the green-streaked black hair and the kank tattoo, and the tall muscular man with the short blonde hair, no tattoo, whose ears are perfectly round and shows no indication at all of having any elven heritage. And if my character is trying to talk to the one who introduced himself to her as Amos, then theoretically, there is no reason she would talk to the one who hasn't ever met her or worse - is her boyfriend of 20 years named Spike.
My biggest Roleplay peeve is the one I struggle the most with. Slang / Speaking from stations. I've heard in the past that I struggle in portraying lower-class individuals, likely due to my own speech patterns and writing styles, and that they often speak above their 'place'.
I find it extremely jarring when a noble uses street slang regularly, or a street urchin speaks as though they just moved from the Atrium to the 'rinth. Since I'm guilty of this (and make conscious efforts to avoid it) I can hardly condemn anyone for the fault.
Something to keep in mind when you're trying to immerse yourselves and make things enjoyable for those you interact with.
(Sorry, but I felt the need to get it back on track. The nickname discussion really does deserve its own thread.)
Lord Templar Hard Nose says, in 'rinthi-accented Sirihish:
"Yo Holmes, what's afoot?"
Quote from: "Lizzie"We do have alias management. Check "help alias" for info. The problem with this, is if I am trying to talk to a very specific tall muscular man, the one with the tattoo of the kank on his forearm, who is definitely a half-elf, whose hair is very long and black with dyed-green streak down the left side, then aliasing amos as tall muscular man will show the 'wrong' amos in addition to the right one. My character knows the difference between the tall muscular man with the green-streaked black hair and the kank tattoo, and the tall muscular man with the short blonde hair, no tattoo, whose ears are perfectly round and shows no indication at all of having any elven heritage. And if my character is trying to talk to the one who introduced himself to her as Amos, then theoretically, there is no reason she would talk to the one who hasn't ever met her or worse - is her boyfriend of 20 years named Spike.
I meant keywords rather than alias. I'll edit the post.
Punctuation.
Or, rather, a lack of it. I'm seeing a lot of people who simply don't bother to use periods, commas, or capitalization.
This drives me up the fucking wall.
The magick helpfiles/documentation are common knowledge to everyone in Zalanthas?
I've been playing wrong, never going to use a true name again.
Quote from: "Eternal"I find it extremely jarring when a noble uses street slang regularly, or a street urchin speaks as though they just moved from the Atrium to the 'rinth.
I feel guilty.
All my characters speak as if they just moved from the Atrium, I think.
Mostly because my English sucks and I can't use any slang. I even OOCly have troubles to -understand- rinthers sometime.
Quote from: "Eternal"My biggest Roleplay peeve is the one I struggle the most with. Slang / Speaking from stations. I've heard in the past that I struggle in portraying lower-class individuals, likely due to my own speech patterns and writing styles, and that they often speak above their 'place'.
I find myself often struggling with this one. My current character speaks with a rather uneven "uneducated" tone; meaning, I try to make him sound lower-class, as he is, but I'm often inconsistent in the way I do it. Sometimes it's hard for me to quite figure out how a character
should talk, too. For example, what if you're a commoner, but you're a noble's aide? Should you talk "properly?" How about if you're a high-ranking officer in a noble house's military? A high-ranking officer in the Allanak militia? You're still a commoner, and sometimes have had quite a rough-and-tumble life, but you're also in a position of power, prestige, and dignity. Should you then sound more "educated?"
Though, I will admit that, being an English major, I have a lot of fun butchering the language with my more lower-class characters. It's just hard to keep it consistent and to know how much to butcher it.
One of the best ways I've found to deal with adapting in-game slang is to create characters that would interact well with others in a low-class setting. I learned quite a lot from a black, pierced 'rinth elf a few years back. I think this would help immensely even for those who aren't native English speakers.
That is a hard and fast rule I use for many of my characters, come to think of it. Whenever I consider a challenging concept, I often write it up and then set it aside. Next, I apply for a concept that would allow me to learn what it is that I found challenging (like an actor studying for a role), typically allowing myself a lot more freedom and room for error. When my character dies, I can look back at the challenging one and determine if it still seems as fun and gauge my abilities from that point.
Lord Templar Hard Nose sings, in 'rinthi-accented tatlum:
"Fek before krath, except after shite."
Quote from: "Eternal"My biggest Roleplay peeve is the one I struggle the most with. Slang / Speaking from stations. I've heard in the past that I struggle in portraying lower-class individuals, likely due to my own speech patterns and writing styles, and that they often speak above their 'place'.
I actually don't mind terribly when, for example, a rinther isn't talking like a pirate on heroin. Their coded accent is still rinthi, and even if the words translated into a more player-friendly english it doesn't mean that your character spoke in that tone. That's why accents are coded. With some of the more extreme written accents I've seen, I would actually prefer that the player had just written it in textbook english so that I could even read more than half of it.
The figure in a dark, hooded cloak says, in a rinthi-accented sirihish:
"Hey, how you doing?"
can =
The figure in a dark, hooded cloak says, in a rinthi-accented sirihish:
"'ey, 'ow y'doon?"
Well, I think there's a drastic difference between saying, "Thar ain' no watah roun' 'ere fo' da nex sikz mi'es", and saying "There's no water aroun' 'ere for th'next six miles".
One is bad sentence structure, and one is an accent. I see nothing wrong with accents in even a Noble's speech pattern, but poor sentence structure is not a terribly likely thing for the highborn or high-employed, who have come to understand how sentences and words reflect their clan or House.
When people feel like they need to go OOC to correct a mispelled word that MOST anyone can tell was mispelled on accident.
Person says, 'That's a nice grene bracelet you have on.'
Person OOCs, '*green'
RP pet peeve: when someone intentionally makes his characters speak SO badly that you can't understand any of it, and it might as well be a completely different coded language (I mean when the character speaks the same language you do, naturally).
One thing in particular...replacing random letters in words with an apostrophe, without even considering that a word can't be pronounced in any way that the "listener" should ever be expected to understand. Example:
QuoteH'woul't s'e 'issel' for'ah 'to' 'at'e 's"
is SUPPOSED to translate to
QuoteHe wouldn't see hisself for the gortok that he is
how, exactly? And does the player of that character accept that ICly, no one understands him, and OOCly, he is making it very difficult and frustrating to RP with him?
RP pet peeve: when someone who is obviously -not- a newbie, is so slow to respond, that you find it easier to just not RP with him because you're missing out on all the fun of the game that everyone else is enjoying. Example:
While on your trusty steed, "So, will you be coming with me? You need to decide now, since it will be dark soon."
(wait..
wait for it now..
wait..
not yet..
almost..
45 seconds..still not yet..
1.5 minutes..almost...)
2 full minutes later:
Nodding to you, the tall dark man says, "Yeah."
and 2 full minutes later, the tall dark man actually types "follow girl."
You finally get out, it turns dusk, you get to the resting spot and rest your trusty steed, and the tall dark man just remains where he is, on his mount. You remind him that he needs to rest and...2 full minutes later, he nods and says "Yeah." Two full minutes after that, he rests his mount. At which point, it's dawn and time to get going again. Except HIS mount is too tired and you now have to wait til late morning to continue the ride - 20 minutes of your own playing time wasted, because this guy just doesn't seem to be paying any attention to the game.
I dislike being manipulated by powerful NPCs that can do things that are impossible for PCs to do, codedly.
Mansa
QuoteI dislike being manipulated by powerful NPCs that can do things that are impossible for PCs to do, codedly.
I will second this peeve...and third.
Quote from: "Lizzie"RP pet peeve: when someone intentionally makes his characters speak SO badly that you can't understand any of it, and it might as well be a completely different coded language (I mean when the character speaks the same language you do, naturally).
I do this with my current character, and I fail to see how this is a problem.
Quote from: "Lizzie"
And does the player of that character accept that ICly, no one understands him, and OOCly, he is making it very difficult and frustrating to RP with him?
Yep. My character is a
fast talking mumbler. I do it intentionally, in the hopes that people won't understand him, and I anticipate that from time to time, people will get confused. They do, and it's all in good fun.
I do, however, put a lot of thought into dropping the appropriate letters and having a consistant mumble, rather than just dropping random ones.
Quote from: "Elgiva"Quote from: "Eternal"I find it extremely jarring when a noble uses street slang regularly, or a street urchin speaks as though they just moved from the Atrium to the 'rinth.
I feel guilty.
All my characters speak as if they just moved from the Atrium, I think.
Mostly because my English sucks and I can't use any slang. I even OOCly have troubles to -understand- rinthers sometime.
I think that the underclass while not always grammatically correct can be quite eloquent.
Quote from: "DesertT"When people feel like they need to go OOC to correct a mispelled word that MOST anyone can tell was mispelled on accident.
Even worse, when players use OOC to correct -ANOTHER- player's 'grene'.
Quote from: "Zendri"I do this with my current character, and I fail to see how this is a problem.
The problem comes when by omitting the a letter with an accent, you spell a word with an entirely different pronunciation. If you make an accent, you're going to have to spell certain words differently, not simply omit letters. The fact is the spoken accent doesn't really omit the sound of the letter, it merely softens it to the point where it can be barely recognized by someone speaking a different accent. That's why a language spoken two different ways is still written the same.
Zenri, wha' I' referri' to i' the ki' o' "roleplayi' talki'" whe' the playe' thi' tha' removi' any consone' fro' the e' o' wo' i' a' understanda' "acce'." I' i' a' acce', i' no' eve' a' tha' simila' to a spee' impedime'.
A' i' i', i' annoyi' a' he'.
Zendri, what I'm referring to is the kind of "roleplaying talking" where the player thinks that removing any consonents from the end of words is an understandable "accent." It isn't an accent, it's not even all that similar to a speech impediment.
All it is, is annoying as hell.
Quote from: "Dalmeth"If you make an accent, you're going to have to spell certain words differently, not simply omit letters.
I disagree. In the case of my character, it's not that he pronounces words differently, it's that he
does omit the sound of the letter.
For example, one of my favorite words to accentuate is, "can't". I do it by dropping the T - "I can' do that." Yes, "can" and "can'" are the same word, and that's intended to be confusing. I do it that way, dropping letters rather than spelling words differently because... well, that's retarded. I'm not going to write, "I kinnae do that" or "I cin do that" or "I couna do that". He's not making up his own words, he's just not pronouncing some key letters.
Quote from: "Lizzie"Zendri, what I'm referring to is the kind of "roleplaying talking" where the player thinks that removing any consonents from the end of words is an understandable "accent." It isn't an accent, it's not even all that similar to a speech impediment.
All it is, is annoying as hell.
As I said, I put a lot of thought into my character's speech pattern; I don't just randomly drop letters. There have been plenty of times where I dropped more letters than I included, but there's a very set pattern to what I do or don't drop - I don't just do it because I like the look of apostrophes. My hope is that most people will initially see my character's speech and think, "What the hell?" and not understand it - that's the intent, and if you're annoyed by it? Talk to a non-native English speaker with a heavy accent and see if you don't get annoyed with them, too - but I hope those who spend any amount of time around him will pick up the pattern and easily fill in the blanks.
Has it worked out that way? I don't know. Maybe someone who has played with my PC will chime in. But I can tell you that on more than one occasion, I've encountered PC's with well-written English that have quickly adopted my PC's mumbling slur.
I do the whole...
say What th'feck are y'talkin' 'bout y'stupid krath-damned i'dit!"
...because it's cooler than being a grammatically correct nerd.
I have no problem with made up accents at all. In fact, I rather enjoy them provided the person keeps consistent in the character's speech patterns/pronunciation/etc.
I've interacted with some very good ones who I could barely understand at first, over in game years around them I could understand the character without a second thought. That's pretty damned realistic and adds alot of flavor IMO.
say What th'feck are y'talkin' 'bout y'stupid krath-damned i'dit!"This is fine. What Zendri is putting forth goes something like this :
say What the fec' are yo' tal'i'g abo't yo' st'pid krath-dam'ed idiot.It might not seem bad here, but imagine if the "n," "u," and "k," were taken off ever word. Often enough, you'll get words that don't even approximate the original pronunciation. That is where the problem lies. Linguistic accents are merely different pronunciations, not reinventions of a language.
Quote from: "Zendri"For example, one of my favorite words to accentuate is, "can't". I do it by dropping the T - "I can' do that." Yes, "can" and "can'" are the same word, and that's intended to be confusing. I do it that way, dropping letters rather than spelling words differently because... well, that's retarded. I'm not going to write, "I kinnae do that" or "I cin do that" or "I couna do that". He's not making up his own words, he's just not pronouncing some key letters.
The fact of the matter is, as far as pronunciation is concerned, "can," and "can'," are the same words. You aren't portraying someone with an accent, you're portraying someone who hasn't learned the language and apparently suffers from seriously faulty logic.
The reason why people make up their own words is because they're writing to approximate a sound. "Kinnae," is the mashing of "can," and "nae." That's actually getting closer to the mumbling portrayed in the clip you posted. The fellow is hard to keep up with because he speaks fast and mashes his words together, not because he omits specific letters. You're applying rules for a spoken accent onto a written platform. It doesn't work. Period.
I love accents for their sound. They add flavor to the words. However, when it can't be pronounced, I get nothing. It's just words poorly spelled.
Play nice, please. No using this thread as an excuse to criticize another poster's presumed play when they disagree on a small point.
Impossible to pronounce/remember/excessively long names.
Quote from: "Dalmeth"This is fine. What Zendri is putting forth goes something like this :
say What the fec' are yo' tal'i'g abo't yo' st'pid krath-dam'ed idiot.
It might not seem bad here, but imagine if the "n," "u," and "k," were taken off ever word. Often enough, you'll get words that don't even approximate the original pronunciation. That is where the problem lies. Linguistic accents are merely different pronunciations, not reinventions of a language.
Very true.
But I've never seen anything as terrible as this.
say What the fec' are yo' tal'i'g abo't yo' st'pid krath-dam'ed idiot.And if I did, I'd just assume they have a speech impediment/really thick accent. If they aren't consistent with a single general accent style, give them a player complaint. But like I said, I've never seen it that bad before and I don't think it's really a big deal.
Quote from: "Dalmeth"
This is fine. What Zendri is putting forth goes something like this :
say What the fec' are yo' tal'i'g abo't yo' st'pid krath-dam'ed idiot.
Er, what? Where did I say that? My character's speech goes something like this:
Quote from: "Little Miss Muffet"
Li'l miss muffe' sat'n a tuffe', eatin'er curds'n whey. Along came a spi'er't sa'down beside'r, an' scared li'l miss muffe' away!
As I've said twice before, there's a lot of thought behind it. Clearly, he's dropping hard sounds and mashing words together, pinning one word, or part of one word, onto the next if the syllables match up. Anyone can figure that out, and I don't think it's too hard to interpret - hopefully everyone is familiar enough with that nursery rhyme that there were no stumbling blocks. Does it require some thought to interpret? Yeah. Can I excessively abuse it if there are lots of hard sounds or unexpected words? Oh, you betcha. Ask my character about his gythka staff sometime...
Quote from: "Dalmeth"
It might not seem bad here, but imagine if the "n," "u," and "k," were taken off ever word. Often enough, you'll get words that don't even approximate the original pronunciation. That is where the problem lies. Linguistic accents are merely different pronunciations, not reinventions of a language.
Ah, we have a winner. See, what we're actually talking about is pronunciation. Accents, I would argue, are handled by the coded "rinthi accent" and "northern-accented" flags of the game, and I do try and represent this with my character: when he's speaking in a 'rinthi accent, my character speaks in what I consider to be a slimier, more roguish tone. In his native tongue, he speaks much more quickly and slurred, with a different set of words and all-around lazy pronunciation.
Quote from: "Dalmeth"Quote from: "Zendri"For example, one of my favorite words to accentuate is, "can't". I do it by dropping the T - "I can' do that." Yes, "can" and "can'" are the same word, and that's intended to be confusing. I do it that way, dropping letters rather than spelling words differently because... well, that's retarded. I'm not going to write, "I kinnae do that" or "I cin do that" or "I couna do that". He's not making up his own words, he's just not pronouncing some key letters.
The fact of the matter is, as far as pronunciation is concerned, "can," and "can'," are the same words.
You're applying rules for a spoken accent onto a written platform. It doesn't work. Period.
Actually, I'm using rules for a written platform to express myself on a written platform, to give voice to a character that exists entirely within a written platform. Last time I checked, making up words and misspelling things was more of an intarwebz phad than appropriate grammar. On the other hand...
Quote from: "Wikipedia"The apostrophe ( ' or ' ) is a punctuation mark, and sometimes a diacritic mark, in languages written in the Latin alphabet. In English, it has two main functions: it marks omissions...
It's common practice to use an apostrophe to omit letters.
Can't you see that?
Didn't you cover that in school?
If you're paying attention, you the player will see the apostrophe at the end, indicating that part of the word has been removed. So unless you're blind and playing via a reader, you, the player, knows that there's something missing from my character's speech in an entirely text-based game. Is there a difference between "can" and "can'" in a written medium? You better believe it - if you don't, go take an composition class, or
read this poem, and try to understand that the written word and the rules of grammar are flexible enough to allow creativity.
If you want to argue about how you, the player, pronounce words, in English, well... that's a completely different and irrelevant discussion. Last time I checked, we aren't all voice actors, we don't speak an imaginary language, and we don't play Arm using a mic and a headset. And I'll be happy to argue with you about whether or not "can" and "can'" are pronounced different in spoken English another time.
Quote from: "Dalmeth"The reason why people make up their own words is because they're writing to approximate a sound. "Kinnae," is the mashing of "can," and "nae." That's actually getting closer to the mumbling portrayed in the clip you posted. The fellow is hard to keep up with because he speaks fast and mashes his words together, not because he omits specific letters.
Quote from: "Benicio del Toro says, [iin English[/i], in the aforementioned clip"]
"I'll flip ya. I'll flip ya for real!"
and
"What the fuck."
We'll have to agree to disagree, here.
I think this is better written as, "I'll flip ya. I'll flip ya f'real!" and "Wha'the fuck." than "I'll flipa ya. I'll flipa ya fah reel!" and "Wha da faahk." I also think my version is easier to read than the made-up-word lolcats version.
I'd rather see:
Quote from: "the tall, muscular man says, in uneducated street slang"Wha' th'fuck are y'talkin' abou' y'fuckin' idio'?
than
Quote from: "the tall, muscular man says,"Woot yar tooking arbot yar fooking ijit"
Wouldn't you? It's an interesting and worthwhile discussion (though probably better off in another thread), but try and keep the attitude out of it. Thanks.
Since we're being peevish, one of mine is when people confuse weary and wary, or wearily and warily.
Weary = tired
Wary = cautious
The manly man wearily slumps down onto a cot and pulls his boots off.
- This guy seems pretty tired, maybe he has had a long day.
The manly man warily slumps down onto a cot and pulls his boots off.
- This guy seems kind of paranoid. Maybe his room mates like to pull practical jokes? :lol:
Along that line, people who use 'bemused' to mean the word amused instead of to mean lost in thought, confused, or bewildered.
Quote from: "Zendri"
Ah, we have a winner. See, what we're actually talking about is pronunciation. Accents, I would argue, are handled by the coded "rinthi accent" and "northern-accented" flags of the game, and I do try and represent this with my character: when he's speaking in a 'rinthi accent, my character speaks in what I consider to be a slimier, more roguish tone. In his native tongue, he speaks much more quickly and slurred, with a different set of words and all-around lazy pronunciation.
The problem comes with the fact that we have no agreed upon system for what's considered "slimy," and "roguish." For the most part, the example you gave me is fine by my tastes. The "can," example rather set me off.
QuoteActually, I'm using rules for a written platform to express myself on a written platform, to give voice to a character that exists entirely within a written platform. Last time I checked, making up words and misspelling things was more of an intarwebz phad than appropriate grammar. On the other hand...
Actually, you're using writing to represent speaking. If your character learned how to write, would you still be using the same rules for the accent?
QuoteIt's common practice to use an apostrophe to omit letters. Can't you see that? Didn't you cover that in school?
Yes, I know about apostrophes. When using them in my own character's accents, I always try to preserve the sound of whatever vowel is being omitted. I use that because no consonant can be pronounced without a vowel sound.
QuoteIs there a difference between "can" and "can'" in a written medium?
Technically, no. However, in a game where time is a sensitive issue, keeping a lookout for an apostrophe is an annoyance. This is a thread about peeves. It seems reasonable for me to voice my annoyance at such things.
QuoteYou better believe it - if you don't, go take an composition class, or read this poem, and try to understand that the written word and the rules of grammar are flexible enough to allow creativity.
English is a very flexible language. That's a large reason why foreign speakers tend to have a difficult time learning it. However, there is a point where you just become incomprehensible. That poem is art, meant to be interpreted at one's leisure. It isn't direct, on the spot communication.
QuoteAnd I'll be happy to argue with you about whether or not "can" and "can'" are pronounced different in spoken English another time.
I'm sure they are pronounced differently in English. However, I'd need you to tell me the rules of pronunciation. I can't really get that in the middle of the game.
QuoteI think this is better written as, "I'll flip ya. I'll flip ya f'real!" and "Wha'the fuck." than "I'll flipa ya. I'll flipa ya fah reel!" and "Wha da faahk." I also think my version is easier to read than the made-up-word lolcats version.
I'd rather see:
Quote from: "the tall, muscular man says, in uneducated street slang"Wha' th'fuck are y'talkin' abou' y'fuckin' idio'?
than
Quote from: "the tall, muscular man says,"Woot yar tooking arbot yar fooking ijit"
Wouldn't you?
I find both to be equally acceptable.
QuoteIt's an interesting and worthwhile discussion (though probably better off in another thread), but try and keep the attitude out of it. Thanks.
We're both unleashing a little bit of attitude. I don't mind it too much. Do you?
I'm suddenly reminded of a pit bull latching on to someone's ankle and refusing to back down.
Peeve: The GDB
Yarlly.
Peeve: People that follow hooded people around until they can fire off that "look hooded"
Also, people who feel the need to stop what they're doing and look at every newcomer they don't recognize that enters the room.
Did anyone ever read trainspotting?
And yes, accents aren't all that different from the main language, but dialects are. Including words that don't even show up in the pure form of the language.
QuoteThe problem comes with the fact that we have no agreed upon system for what's considered "slimy," and "roguish." For the most part, the example you gave me is fine by my tastes. The "can," example rather set me off.
Do people IRL have an agreed upon system of what is considered "slimy" or "roguish"? I can go down to any number of parks here in town and start up a conversation with some crusty street-kids. In doing so, I will inevitably encounter a fairly wide range of pronunciations, accents, and slang. Is there something wrong with this? I don't see why an elf and a dwarf, simply because they both live in the rinth, would speak in the same manner.
QuoteQuote
Actually, I'm using rules for a written platform to express myself on a written platform, to give voice to a character that exists entirely within a written platform. Last time I checked, making up words and misspelling things was more of an intarwebz phad than appropriate grammar. On the other hand...
Actually, you're using writing to represent speaking. If your character learned how to write, would you still be using the same rules for the accent?
What Zendri said was entirely accurate. We all use the rules of written English, because we are expressing ourselves on a written platform. Yes, the -character- speaks, but the speech is represented by text. The same rules would apply for a literate character and an illiterate character, as well as a well-spoken or a poorly-spoken one. This is because these rules are completely OOC rules of the English language. A well-spoken character will undoubtedly use 'better' English, but the rules of writing that English will remain the same.
QuoteYes, I know about apostrophes. When using them in my own character's accents, I always try to preserve the sound of whatever vowel is being omitted. I use that because no consonant can be pronounced without a vowel sound.
While a consonant cannot be pronounced without a vowel sound, those sounds are part of the phonetics of the consonants. "T" says "Tuh", and according to my resident five-year old and his LeapPad Learning Center, it doesn't require any vowel to make that sound. English is not a consistently phonetically spelled language. When I say "Can't" I do -not- pronounce the "O" sound in "cannot". That's the point of the apostrophe. It is used (in these circumstances) to represent dropped letters, and sounds, in spoken language.
Now, I don' be knowin' w'th'fuck kinda bullshit y'be talkin' 'bout wit' 'is nonsense 'bout "preservin' th'sound'f th'vowel".
As you can plainly see, the apostrophe is used to drop both vowels -and- consonants. They are dropped because the sound is not to be pronounced. This is the way English works. I vastly prefer using this convention of the English language to phonetic spelling, which would appear something like this:
Naw, ehyee dunn bee nawen wha tha fuk kuhnda bhaull sheet yah bee tahlkeen bout wit iss nonsense bout prahsuhrven tha sounduff tha vowel.
Now that is some ugly, hard to read bullshit, and a definite peeve of mine. The use of apostrophes to represent pronunciation is both the most understandable way to accomplish this and the grammatically approved method.
QuoteQuoteIs there a difference between "can" and "can'" in a written medium?
Technically, no. However, in a game where time is a sensitive issue, keeping a lookout for an apostrophe is an annoyance. This is a thread about peeves. It seems reasonable for me to voice my annoyance at such things.
Technically, yes. There is an extra apostrophe which lets the reader know that there is some suppressed sound at the end of the word. We could write it as "canno'" (simply dropping the "T" sound from "cannot", since it is no longer really a contraction) Another way to write this could be "can nuh", using the LOLCATS unofficial intarwebz rules of English (also known as phonetic spelling).
I personally find using grammatically "correct" English to be the least offensive way to represent poor pronunciation.
Quote
However, there is a point where you just become incomprehensible.
Ever talk to a Cajun?
Sadly, he has a point with Cajuns. He, forever, forgot to mention serious, redneck, country-bred Southerners.
Yeegads.
"Ah'ad meh uhnna'em go'damt ol' deer'untin' rifles, up'nna tree 'bout twenny, thurrty feet up inna air, in onna'em ol' 'untin'screens. I sighted on'at go'damt summabitch an'lew s'go'damt head clean off."
Key thing I use Ig. Phonetics. If I'm cutting off pieces of a word, I'm going to make the rest of the word sound just like it is spelled. Some people still hate me for that one pc...
Regarding "can't" and "can," it's both realistic and highly accurate to drop the T in "can't." In fact, most of the time the T isn't actually pronounced. Say the phrase "I can't go." If you're anything like most English speakers, your tongue never hits the alveolar ridge in that phrase, which is what we associate with the T sound. Heck, you probably don't really articulate the N either. Most speakers will swallow the NT entirely into a funny little glottal sound. If, on the other hand, you pronounce the phrase "I can't eat," you will see that there is, indeed, an articulated T sound.
The reason we never confuse "can' " and "can" in real life, apart from the wonders of context, is primarily because the A is pronounced differently in these two words. The presence of the "T" phoneme on the end changes the pronunciation of the vowel before it, even if the T is never actually pronounced.
Just thought this might be an interesting tidbit. Up with confusing, elaborate accents!
The problem with all that joyofdiscord, is that when people actually speak out loud, the listener can actually hear the sound that each word is making. Anyone of reasonable hearing is able to tell that their friend is saying "I can't go" rather than "I can go." A doctor, checking on his bladder surgery patient, can also hear the difference between can and can't, in that context. The words are pronounced differently and that difference is audible.
In text, there is no difference between can and can. They are the exact same three letters, placed in the exact same order and mean the exact same thing. So if you want your reader to know your character means "is unable to" do something...then let the reader know. If you want to be intentionally vague, instead of confusing the reader, why not just try coming up with a different way of being vague?
"Well damn, we could go, but..." letting her sentence trail off as her gaze wanders toward the ceiling.
See? You've just completely confused the CHARACTER your character is talking to, without befuddling the reader in the slightest.
QuoteSay the phrase "I can't go." If you're anything like most English speakers, your tongue never hits the alveolar ridge in that phrase, which is what we associate with the T sound. Heck, you probably don't really articulate the N either. Most speakers will swallow the NT entirely into a funny little glottal sound.
I live in a civilized part of the United States, where we actually pronounce things correctly. I certainly articulate the "T" and "N" sounds when I say "I can't go."
Speak for yourself, perhaps?
The only way I can imagine -not- articulating the "T" -and- "N" sound in "can't" is with some gibberish like this:
"Ca'go! Jus'ran'a for'ee an'm reee'ly 'runk!"
The only place I hear shit like that is when I'm at the river park, and I happen to walk past a hobo squat... This is not the standard mode of English speech. I think considerably more accents, or dialects, drop the "T" sound than the "N" but one or the other is usually fairly
enunciated.
Am I in the minority by pronouncing the "N" and "T" sounds in "can't"? This concept frightens me.
Quote from: "psionic fungus"QuoteSay the phrase "I can't go." If you're anything like most English speakers, your tongue never hits the alveolar ridge in that phrase, which is what we associate with the T sound. Heck, you probably don't really articulate the N either. Most speakers will swallow the NT entirely into a funny little glottal sound.
I live in a civilized part of the United States, where we actually pronounce things correctly. I certainly articulate the "T" and "N" sounds when I say "I can't go."
Speak for yourself, perhaps?
The only way I can imagine -not- articulating the "T" -and- "N" sound in "can't" is with some gibberish like this:
"Ca'go! Jus'ran'a for'ee an'm reee'ly 'runk!"
The only place I hear shit like that is when I'm at the river park, and I happen to walk past a hobo squat... This is not the standard mode of English speech. I think considerably more accents, or dialects, drop the "T" sound than the "N" but one or the other is usually fairly annunciated.
Am I in the minority by pronouncing the "N" and "T" sounds in "can't"? This concept frightens me.
I'm not 100% sure, but, I'm thinking maybe Joy is from europe, where they -do- seem to leave out -t- sounds.
Quote from: "psionic fungus"...I live in a civilized part of the United States, where we actually pronounce things correctly. I certainly articulate the "T" and "N" sounds when I say "I can't go."
...
The only place I hear shit like that is when I'm at the river park, and I happen to walk past a hobo squat... This is not the standard mode of English speech. I think considerably more accents, or dialects, drop the "T" sound than the "N" but one or the other is usually fairly annunciated.
Am I in the minority by pronouncing the "N" and "T" sounds in "can't"? This concept frightens me.
Every region probably has its own slight variations. For example, up here where I live, we say "enunciated".
QuoteFor example, up here where I live, we say "enunciated".
Thanks for being a member of my favorite group of people, smart-asses. To be absolutely clear though, my being a dumb-ass and using the wrong word is not a pronunciation error.
All fixed now.
QuoteI'm not 100% sure, but, I'm thinking maybe Joy is from europe, where they -do- seem to leave out -t- sounds.
With "can't" and similar contractions, I think it is less a matter of dropping the "T" in "can't" and more a matter of dropping the "T" sound from "cannot". Because with this type of accent the "O" often -is- enunciated, I think it is more appropriate to write it as "canno'" than "can'" or "can't", whether it is pronounced ka-NUH or ka-NO.
Giving it some more thought, it seems that -some- dialects probably distinguish the difference between "can" and "can't" by pronouncing the the "A" as either long or short... Making "can't" sounds like "con" or "caun" or something. Still, this is definitely not the majority of English speaking persons, most pronounce both the "N" and the "T" in "can't" whether the "A" is long or short... "cannot", however, might be a different story.
And could someone please tell me why I'm still posting about this, at 1:30am?
Oh yeah... I can't sleep and I'm bored. Never mind.
wtf.
nuff said.
On the contrary... I'm confused.
Please elaborate?
Also:
My current peeve is not being able to play because my computer died, and the mud client I loaded on this machine parses input in a mysterious and (seemingly) random way, preventing half of my "says", "thinks", "emotes", etc. from ever reaching the game.
I dunno, fungus. I think what joyofdiscord may be talking about is the crisp sound of 'T' that -is- actually left out a lot.
Most people, when saying the word 'mountain', do not CRISPLY pronounce that letter. Because of it's placement, the break in syllables ends up...'blurring' the sound of the 't', for lack of a better description at this moment.
It's still pronounced, just not with the usual sharp 't' sound. Whether or not you say 'mountain' or the ever more popular 'moun'ain', it is actually more common than one would think. I give people shit about this all the time, heh.
Quote from: "Armaddict"I dunno, fungus. I think what joyofdiscord may be talking about is the crisp sound of 'T' that -is- actually left out a lot.
Most people, when saying the word 'mountain', do not CRISPLY pronounce that letter. Because of it's placement, the break in syllables ends up...'blurring' the sound of the 't', for lack of a better description at this moment.
It's still pronounced, just not with the usual sharp 't' sound. Whether or not you say 'mountain' or the ever more popular 'moun'ain', it is actually more common than one would think. I give people shit about this all the time, heh.
I've come to call that a "stop t," and damned if I know why. It's very common in spoken English--the "t" sound
is pronounced, it's just not with the usual plosive sound, it's more imploded. To someone who doesn't know English very well, it'd sound like it wasn't there at all, but it is, because it changes the sound of the consonants and vowels around it, and there's just a little silence that indicates its presence.
As I said...
Where I was raised, -and- where I live, most people speak properly. When I say "properly", I mean the way the dictionary pronounces.
When I say "mountain" I rarely say "moun'in". There is a fucking "T" in that word, and it isn't silent. I don't say "hun'in'", "lib'ary", or "amb'LEE'ence" either, because I'm not a fucking red-neck.
It truly frightens me to hear (more than one person express) that speaking English properly is somehow uncommon and makes me a minority.
I -should- know this from my phone job, but I think I have willfully disbelieved it for years, hoping that it was an issue with the areas we call, or the Republican constituents we talk to. Can't the fucking public education system even teach people to speak properly?
There is no hope.
Quote from: "psionic fungus"When I say "mountain" I rarely say "moun'in". There is a fucking "T" in that word, and it isn't silent. I don't say "hun'in'", "lib'ary", or "amb'LEE'ence" either, because I'm not a fucking red-neck.
As a red-neck, I think I am offended by this.
Beyond that, I doubt you pronounce the same word as someone who lives in London, Boston, New York, Wales, or Dublin (Ireland). Dialects vary and each of them is the 'correct' method. I once nearly failed a paper in Canada due to not using the letter u in my 'favourites and colours' (Prick of a tenured profess'eur').
Also, you likely do skip over letters that don't fit your dialect. In the 'generic middle-region' accent, an example
would be the U and L in 'would', pronounced 'wood' by many American Anglophones.
If I may dare say so, SoI had this fairly good way to set a tone on your voice I forgot the command though, it was useful along with the short non-permanent desc. while moving.
QuoteDialects vary and each of them is the 'correct' method.
Shut up, asshole. Clearly, PF knows the proper way to speak.
Quote from: "Vessol"If I may dare say so, SoI had this fairly good way to set a tone on your voice I forgot the command though, it was useful along with the short non-permanent desc. while moving.
Ugh. I hated the talking walking echoes on SoI....
She said silkily.
Back to roleplaying peeves:
Twinks.
Twinks who never emote.
Twinks who never do anything other than "say, sit, s, stand," and "kill scrab."
Quote from: "Ashes"
Twinks who never do anything other than "say, sit, s, stand," and "kill scrab."
Don't worry, if that is all they do, then they are doomed to eventually walk into the silt sea and suffocate. Stupid south walking twinks!
New odd urge: make a ranger that never buys a weapon and just walks south hunting scrab until he dies or walks into the silt sea, sitting occasionally to get back his hp and standing to continue. Also, he will talk to himself when he's not busy.
Yes.
Uppity damn rednecks.
Wood you like some cheese with your whine?
I may not always speak with proper enunciation, but I don't go around claiming it is the 'correct' way to speak. There are only one or two correct ways to pronounce most words. They're spelled out phonetically in most dictionaries. The ones with pronunciation guides. If you can't read the phonetic spellings, there are dictionaries like www.m-w.com that have audio samples of correct pronunciations.
I might get lax with my "UL" sound from time to time, but I'm not going around proclaiming my speech impediment is the way the "majority" of English speakers pronounce things. "Can't" has a "T" sound, that's why the letter is included in the contraction.
Uh...
PEEVES:
Players who make my character feel things (or fucking do things) with their emotes (power-emoters).
Players who make my character feel things and/or psychically bestow knowledge on my character when he looks at them (power-describers).
Characters who die immediately after being recruited, gifted, or somehow involved in a plot.
Your mom.
I again love you all for what you are, and what you are not. ACCEPT THE LOVE INTO YOUR HEART OR I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU.
I love the depth of conversation coming from this thread. I was tempted to abandon it after the last 'I'm right, u r retard' style post, but feel the need to address the dictionary issue. M-W.com has examples of the sounds of words, the dictionary's sounds are worthless in any part of the world where the dictionary's writer did not originate. That is one of the largest problems of dictionaries (and anyone who attempts to make the mutable become immutable): they only reflect the definition and linguistic ability of the writer(s). There are dictionaries published in other 'English-speaking' parts of the world that are full of local brogue, and the oxford dictionary lists many pronunciations not to be found in mirriam webster editions.
What bothers me more than the short-sighted and argumentative comments, is the way that some on this board have chosen to phrase them. Personal insults say an awful lot about the poster and their inability to communicate in a worthwhile fashion in a discussion.
This is to be a thread about roleplay peeves, there is no need for personal attacks or other such inane foolishness. If you feel the need to make insults, please keep it to PMs where it does not interfere with discussion.
QuoteThat is one of the largest problems of dictionaries (and anyone who attempts to make the mutable become immutable): they only reflect the definition and linguistic ability of the writer(s). There are dictionaries published in other 'English-speaking' parts of the world that are full of local brogue, and the oxford dictionary lists many pronunciations not to be found in mirriam webster editions.
Sorry... OED subscription is too expensive for me, and my free trial ran out.
An unabridged dictionary is ideal, yes... And most dictionaries with local pronunciations make mention of the dialectic nature of such pronunciations, preferably with etymology. But... No. I still refuse to accept that it is 'proper' English to say "can't" with no "T" sound. That letter ain' silent.
QuoteWhat bothers me more than the short-sighted and argumentative comments, is the way that some on this board have chosen to phrase them. Personal insults say an awful lot about the poster and their inability to communicate in a worthwhile fashion in a discussion.
This makes me laugh. Worthwhile discussion?
I thought this was all about people being annoyed by written accents.
I may have an inability to communicate in a worthwhile fashion in -this- discussion, perhaps... I continue to participate simply because I find it absurd. Did you know that using eloquent words and innuendo doesn't make what you just said less of an insult? Thanks for adding to the hate.
I've noticed that the tongue-in-cheek is often lost around here, but I post primarily to entertain myself. Keep that in mind at all times, and I'm sowwy if my redneck comments hurded your fewings.
And sorry to break the terrible truth to people who have heavy accents...
Every dialect is not "correct" or "proper" English. It just isn't so... If we embrace things like Ebonics, and other dialects, they will eventually become separate languages, like the romance tongues.
Whatev's. You people are too uptight sometimes.
"I can't say what I want to... Even if I'm not serious..." -MJK
F'reelz.
I guess I've only really had one pet-peeve.... when people confuse the concept of a harsh world with one of a hopeless-starile-hostle(for no reason)-world.
Amos doesn't always need to be a loner, without family, without dreams, without emotions...
QuoteAnd sorry to break the terrible truth to people who have heavy accents...
Every dialect is not "correct" or "proper" English. It just isn't so... If we embrace things like Ebonics, and other dialects, they will eventually become separate languages, like the romance tongues.
Well, you know what else 'just isn't so'? YOUR FACE!
lol
New peeve: Using The Way to bypass language boundaries. I will do so when the other player starts, but it just seems so much like cheating to me. :x
Agreed.
The way should be in whatever language they speak, cause I for one think in english. So if the way really existed, I would think someone from another country who spoke a totally different language, would think in that totally different language.
I speak Korea, German and English. But english is my main language and that's what I think in, unless of course I'm speaking one of the other two or thinking about one of the other two, then it goes through my mind in Korean or German.
Maybe I'm just weird...
I'm not so sure about that. I gather that the Way is supposed to be in the language of thought, not necessarily the language in which you think; you're not sending words, you're sending mental impulses that the other person's brain translates into words. It's a more basic level of communication than verbalized speech: you're sending the impulses that your brain translates as speech, not the speech itself.
In this way (and I gather that this is how the Way is meant to be interpreted, or it would be in a spoken language by now), it would be plenty RP appropriate to bypass language barriers with the Way. Might seem a little OOC or twinkish to do so, but it fits just fine as long as there's an IC motivation.
A favorite use of the way (which I've really only seen once): magickal thought translation, but with stilted grammar and idioms.
The claw-marked elf sends to you,
"I see you, weak-foot female. You are short like a child, but your ribs are large and cause me to be thirsty."
My peeve: emo. I'm getting really tired of emo characters. Leave that shit in Canada where it belongs. ;)
Emo and virgins.
My virginity is a black
Death-river that crawls like
Nothingness over my hatred for life.
Desolation, oppression, blacky blacked-out blackness that's black
I trudge in the Highlord Tek's
Shadow (dark... uh, blackidity)
But He can never understand my lamentable plight
To be by a gith raiding party ganked
To be a twenty year old Bynner that's never kanked
em cuts himself with ~dagger.
Damnit. I am so bitter that my mul poet post fell off the OOC board into oblivion. :x
I may have to recreate it.
people who OOC to correct a typo that i could just have well figured out on my own.
if it's so bad you have to OOC over, just re-send the line corrected and i'll get the point without your emoticons showing up in the BRIGHT BLUE that i highlight all OOC stuff with.
People who won't let me reasonably indulge my deep, personal need for Cool Items and newly-branched skills.
People who scan and hunt, hide and sneak everywhere, just cause they want to gain skill, but without any emotes or reasoning behind it.
I personally will just wait for someone to leave a location, and hunt them to see where they are going, that way at least I'm hunting for a reason, not just to see my own footprints.
I personally will only scan when entering an area that I plan on resting, to make sure nobody is hiding in the shadows.
What I'm getting at is. Have a fucking reason you're using your skills other then bullshit just to branch whatever comes after hunt and scan.
A few players have been pissing me off with this lately.
Cerelum, I could agree with you on hide and hunt. But not on scan. Scan lasts a duration, and then it "shuts off." The players are probably just making sure that their characters are still scanning. Because there's no way for a player to know if their "scan" is running or not, unless someone hidden happens to be in the same room and they happen to see them. And that isn't guaranteed even if the scan is running.
If i was a sneaky character, i would practice me hide and sneak all the time.
Same way a warrior spars. Training at something makes you better at it.
So whats wrong with that?
It's hardly spamming.
Quote from: "Simple"If i was a sneaky character, i would practice me hide and sneak all the time.
Same way a warrior spars. Training at something makes you better at it.
So whats wrong with that?
It's hardly spamming.
warriors don't spar all the time.
that's what's wrong with that.
it's ok if you take a morning to "train" your sneaking.
but if you sneak everywhere with no good reason, then that's when you ought to get slapped with a skill cap
QuotePeople who scan and hunt, hide and sneak everywhere, just cause they want to gain skill, but without any emotes or reasoning behind it.
I personally will just wait for someone to leave a location, and hunt them to see where they are going, that way at least I'm hunting for a reason, not just to see my own footprints.
I personally will only scan when entering an area that I plan on resting, to make sure nobody is hiding in the shadows.
What I'm getting at is. Have a fucking reason you're using your skills other then bullshit just to branch whatever comes after hunt and scan.
A few players have been pissing me off with this lately.
They could have a reason for that...
Quotebut if you sneak everywhere with no good reason, then that's when you ought to get slapped with a skill cap
Remaining unnoticed is a good reason.
Who tries to remain unnoticed their entire lives? There are people who literally never toggle sneak off; or elves who never move ten feet without running there, which I find equally peculiar.
Okay. I see what you meant. I didn't mean -never- turning it off. Whenever I have played sneaky types I do it on occasion practicing, round the bazaar or back streets, not all the time. I don't want people to know that I'm a sneaky type.
PEEVES:
People who contact you just to get your sdesc and nothing else. This is usually pretty obvious.
People who will go out of their way to take a look at any hooded person - equally obvious.
People who wear something in every single wear location just to have a long equipment list. Does your character really need a scrap of cloth around each ankle, a sandcloth wrap on their forearms, scars on both shoulders, and two large dangling earrings to accompany their fighting gear?
people who can't bother with capitalization and punctuation
People who exhibit below average roleplay with a karma character. I know karma isn't all about how well you portray a character, but sometimes it's just sad to see a really poor player and you're about to offer them OOC help when you notice a gem around their neck.
People who ignore the non-PC world around them: eating their own travel cake while sitting at a bar, pick locks in front of NPCs, loot corpses in front of the NPC soldier who just killed them, toggle run or sneak to get past a guard who just stopped them, etc.
People who do everything within the power of the code to get out of a threatening situation, even if it defies all logic and realism. How did your near-death character break free of subdue and sprint three miles across the city again?
Quote from: "Good Gortok"People who wear something in every single wear location just to have a long equipment list. Does your character really need a scrap of cloth around each ankle, a sandcloth wrap on their forearms, scars on both shoulders, and two large dangling earrings to accompany their fighting gear?
I disagree to an extent. Some people wear lots of gear, and it's perfectly suitable for them to - but those of you with five rings on each hand and no reason to have them... bah.
Biggest peeves: Power-playing and the "if the code lets me do it, it's fine" attitude.
Quote from: "Only He Stands There"Quote from: "Good Gortok"People who wear something in every single wear location just to have a long equipment list. Does your character really need a scrap of cloth around each ankle, a sandcloth wrap on their forearms, scars on both shoulders, and two large dangling earrings to accompany their fighting gear?
I disagree to an extent. Some people wear lots of gear, and it's perfectly suitable for them to - but those of you with five rings on each hand and no reason to have them... bah.
I disgree also.. What if someone is a soldier, I've seen people with huge lists, that have nothing but armor, and maybe a ring, a earring, and a tattoo or two.. I think its just their character's style they are bringing out.
Also if they are nomadic, and running around with something covering all their body isn't that bad, These sandstorms are nasty.
But my biggest peeve, is when your RP'ing with someone and suddenly they go AFK without telling you, so you sit there picking your ass for five minutes before they return. xD Damn smokers. :wink:
People who contact you just to get your sdesc and nothing else. This is usually pretty obvious.
My peeve too...
Another peeve is when people use your sdesc to describe you to a templar, etc.. BAH!
People who RP with other people and automatically assume the worst about the other person's RP and OOC motivations.
Quote from: "Fathi"People who RP with other people and automatically assume the worst about the other person's RP and OOC motivations.
Gahd yesh.
I rly think people who do things that are just completely unrealistic just because they can are the hardest to deal with for me. people who have power and think they can do what they want, just because they can disappear with the hide skill or sneak skill......I don't think you can just flat otu be gone from EVERYONE's sight....my peeve, or on eof them.
Players who are mean OOCly to newbies because said newbies haven't got the hang of the communication syntaxes and don't -always- use proper grammar or punctuation.
Players who strongly believe a favortism ideal exists and constantly complain how unfairly they are treated and that they deserve so much more on an OOC level no matter how good or not their RP is.
Players who never RP while crafting.
PCs who use any real-time terms like for example using the word 'god' or even using medical terminology I don't think Zalanthas is advanced enough to have: 'genes' and 'nervous system'.
Quote from: "titansfan"I rly think people who do things that are just completely unrealistic just because they can are the hardest to deal with for me. people who have power and think they can do what they want, just because they can disappear with the hide skill or sneak skill......I don't think you can just flat otu be gone from EVERYONE's sight....my peeve, or on eof them.
Yeah. Bah! Nothing's more stupid than having a one-way conversation with an assassin who keeps whispering something to you and hiding immediately afterwards. Just because they can make their character untargetable doesn't mean that it's feasible. Same thing with people who hide or sneak out in the middle of a tavern brawl while someone's pummeling them.
Quote from: "some guy"Quote from: "titansfan"I rly think people who do things that are just completely unrealistic just because they can are the hardest to deal with for me. people who have power and think they can do what they want, just because they can disappear with the hide skill or sneak skill......I don't think you can just flat otu be gone from EVERYONE's sight....my peeve, or on eof them.
Yeah. Bah! Nothing's more stupid than having a one-way conversation with an assassin who keeps whispering something to you and hiding immediately afterwards. Just because they can make their character untargetable doesn't mean that it's feasible. Same thing with people who hide or sneak out in the middle of a tavern brawl while someone's pummeling them.
Or walk out of the room without an emote while surrounded by three large people, all pummeling them.
People who pummel me when I'm trying to sneak out of a room.
People who play off peak, but go about their own business like I'm not around. When I'm the only other person around... :( RP With me please, it's so lonely during off peak.
First off, accidental mistakes don't peeve me. Punctuation, misspelling, etc...if I can get the gist of what my character is 'hearing', I'm fine. People make mistakes. I try to quickly respond to anyone who RP's with me regardless of errors, making it clear, I hope, that I'm perfectly capable of disregarding petty "stuff" and focusing on the big picture. In turn, I hope that makes them feel involved and comfortable.
Pet peeve:
People who ALWAYS have to "shine",people who ALWAYS have to be miserable, gritty, or otherwise paranoid (Unless you're actually trying to RP someone with a mental disorder.), and people who ALWAYS have to be the most impressive and amazing fighter that ever was.
Characters that don't evolve. Because, multiple dimensions built-up consistently and fostered into a rich personality...now -that- is a truly beautiful thing.
Players who -only- emote or interact on a consistent level when the RP is moreorless centered around their character or their character's "thing". Even if you're just shifting your weight, glancing toward something or someone you're thinking about, or remaining at attention while you're being dressed down, I want to get a hint of what makes you tick or short of that...just be reminded you're not a drop-description. I try to appreciate what everyone around me does or can put into the environment. Get in the game!
em energetically throws ~ball to ~wah
em sighs as ~ball rebounds from %wah motionless, stoic form
em With a disappointed expression, @ watches helplessly as ~ball rolls slowly across the barren floor eventually...coming...to...a...halt. :-\
A peeve of mine is actually something that I catch myself doing all the fucking time. And that is what I like to call "scene rushing".
I can type very fast, my mind is always racing and I get bored easily. On the plus side of all of that, I'm usually pretty actively RPing with my fellow players. However, I find myself making my character ramble on when I should be waiting to see how everyone else reacts. I guess this wouldn't be so bad if it was rare, but I do it a lot. Working on it, though.
I've had it done to me, too. It's almost like someone "power emoting". In this case, rather than forcing an action or reaction on you via an emote, the "scene rusher" steals from you every opportunity to have your own reactions.
Example:
I say, "Hey, dudes, that was pretty wild when that black robe ran Amos through with a solid steel pike!"
You begin typing your agreement/disagreement/whatever
I say (in the span of five seconds) I don't like the way that necker's looking at me!
I say (even faster) I think Malik owes me a few 'sids...
You begin to feel OOCly irritated
That's really extreme, but I think it illustrates my point.
I'm a fast typer and that happens constantly to me, too. It's why my characters have such lively inner worlds. :D
My peeves:
- Idlers
- People who won't take IC consequences for IC actions
- People who never use the think or feel commands
- Zalanthans who don't drink... even once in a while
- The way some characters completely ignore half-giants when the big guys are around
- Players who love their characters too much to accept a risk that makes total sense
- Leader PCs who disregard the living, breathing presence of their NPC guards
Quote from: Zoltan on November 29, 2007, 02:20:25 AM
A peeve of mine is actually something that I catch myself doing all the fucking time. And that is what I like to call "scene rushing"
Guilty as charged. I noticed it a while back and do my best to correct it.
Think and feel are my friends.
Guilty of the same.
I'm a very bad imm who either puts in three sentences and a question before the other person has had a chance to reply or I try to wait and end up distracted by something else (shiny!) and forget I'm animating an npc.
I'm also guilty of starting a scene when I have only a limited amount of time and therefore my npcs frequently start conversations like "I've got work to do and you've got five minutes to explain. So be succint and don't piss me off...". Sometimes they say it in a nicer way, if they happen to be nice and polite.
(Ever notice how few npcs are nice and polite?)
Quote from: Adhira on November 29, 2007, 05:43:12 AM
(Ever notice how few npcs are nice and polite?)
Yes.
:'(
I'm always feeling rushed when I'm playing. But I hate it when the person I'm RPing with feels so UNrushed that it looks to me like he's:
1) typing slowly
2) trying to come up with exactly the right wording
3) adding a couple of thinks while coming up with the response to the PC who's actually standing there waiting for a response
4) typing those thinks slowly
5) trying to come up with exactly the right wording for those thinks
6) having a Way conversation with someone else at the same time
7) typing that way conversation slowly
8) trying to come up with exactly the right wording to his Way conversation.
All while I'm trying to find out...Do you know this dead guy lying on the floor in front of your barstool? Yes, or no?
So as a player I get frustrated because all I, as a player, need, is a grunt and a nod, or a grunt and a shake of his head, so I can move on with the scene and maybe go hunting or drag the corpse or call for a templar or whatever. Instead I just stand there, waiting for a response, because the guy is obviously not linkdead, just REALLY REALLY SLOW. And then it's dark, and the gate's closed and I'm stuck, when if he had just answered the question with a simple yes or no, I could have been halfway to my destination already.
Quote from: Lizzie on November 29, 2007, 08:32:37 AM
I'm always feeling rushed when I'm playing. But I hate it when the person I'm RPing with feels so UNrushed that it looks to me like he's:
Yesssss. Though I'm occasionally guilty of this myself.
Some days, yer writerly inspiration ain't firing on all four cylinders. On those days, it's absolutely perfectly fine to use "say" with no parentheses.
Quote from: Adhira on November 29, 2007, 05:43:12 AM(Ever notice how few npcs are nice and polite?)
Sure, but not that many PCs are nice and polite either. NPCs and PCs in Tuluk are nicer and politer, though ;)
I get pretty annoyed when people scene rush me. But I'm quite a quick responder, so it doesn't happen that much. And if it does, I just tell them to STFU in some kind of way that's appropriate for my character. I get tempted to scene rush when I'm faced with someone who's a slow responder, but I just don't allow myself to do it.
People who are super-slow do peeve me. If it's IC for my character to yell at them about being slow, I'll do that, and sometimes that helps.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on November 28, 2007, 05:23:44 AM
People who play off peak, but go about their own business like I'm not around. When I'm the only other person around... :( RP With me please, it's so lonely during off peak.
Also, the above breaks my heart a little. Someone please RP with this guy?
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on November 28, 2007, 05:23:44 AM
People who play off peak, but go about their own business like I'm not around. When I'm the only other person around... :( RP With me please, it's so lonely during off peak.
Also, the above breaks my heart a little. Someone please RP with this guy?
[/quote]
You know that little starving kid you see on TV with the concave chest, tiny hands, and flys buzzing in their eyes? Yeah that's me. :(
Quote from: Goldberry on November 29, 2007, 12:13:09 AM
Characters that don't evolve. Because, multiple dimensions built-up consistently and fostered into a rich personality...now -that- is a truly beautiful thing.
BIG TIME!!!
Also, characters who don't seem to realize how lucky they are to find work in the houses/ templarate/ even the Byn.
I just noticed I do some of these stuff listed here
hahaha
a solution to scene rushing is the slow typers need to start using ellipses so us scene rushers know to wait.
Quote from: Agent_137 on November 29, 2007, 04:04:22 PM
a solution to scene rushing is the slow typers need to start using ellipses so us scene rushers know to wait.
How can they use ellipses if they haven't been allowed the time to say/emote anything at all yet?
Also, you're not really a scene rusher. You always seem fine to me.
Also, your sig is still broken, n00b ;)
I've been known to scene rush.
I agree, spamming think/feel are the solution
Quote from: Gimfalisette on November 29, 2007, 05:10:43 PM
Quote from: Agent_137 on November 29, 2007, 04:04:22 PM
a solution to scene rushing is the slow typers need to start using ellipses so us scene rushers know to wait.
How can they use ellipses if they haven't been allowed the time to say/emote anything at all yet?
Also, you're not really a scene rusher. You always seem fine to me.
Also, your sig is still broken, n00b ;)
Bullshit, Agent is rapidfire. I have to OOC him occasionally and tell him to slow the fuck down.
He's like that on the phone, too. GOOD LORD ROB, LET ME GET A WORD IN EDGEWISE.
Another peeve of mine?
When someone makes a very simple spelling error, like Taht, or mroe. Then they OOC "Oopsies, I meant more/that." And they do it a lot. It isn't a real serious peeve, but it irks me. I make a lot of mistakes, but two wrongs don't make a right.
It'd been said a bunch of times, but:
CAPITALISE, PUNCTUATE, and SPELL WORDS CORRECTLY.
plz plz plz k thx
Quote from: ale six on November 30, 2007, 01:04:11 AM
It'd been said a bunch of times, but:
CAPITALISE, PUNCTUATE, and SPELL WORDS CORRECTLY.
plz plz plz k thx
Especially the people who will punctuate with apostrophes and will capitalise, but for some reason NEVER PUT PUNCTUATION AT THE END OF THEIR SAYS/TELLS.
There's typos, there's not knowing English well, and then there's just plain laziness.
Quote from: Maybe42or54 on November 29, 2007, 10:11:36 PMWhen someone makes a very simple spelling error, like Taht, or mroe. Then they OOC "Oopsies, I meant more/that." And they do it a lot. It isn't a real serious peeve, but it irks me. I make a lot of mistakes, but two wrongs don't make a right.
To me, the least jarring way to fix a mistake is to just repeat the command with the error fixed. And yeah, even that is *not* worth doing for simple typsos.
I'm not really sure these count as RPing peeves. I don't get annoyed by anybodies actual RP, everyone is different, and I accept them as they are, as long as they are trying.
1. When imms (on any mud) dictate the player's RP. ie No, your character wouldn't do that, or that's not how people act in this world. It's RP, that means we should be able to do what we want, within reason of course.
2. What I -really- don't like is when people -don't- RP. I guess that's actually more a code use peeve though. Like when you're say, leaning against a door and another person opens the door and runs out to escape IC consequences.
Spelling and grammar issues can break up the pace of RP a bit, but it doesn't really bother me. People have different levels of skill in these departments, even among native english speakers. If the grammar is so bad that I can barely understand what they're saying, and it's really breaking up the RP, I just shift my perspective and pretend they grew up speaking a different language(in my own head, not by dictating to them that they did) and that makes it easier for me to deal with.
People who ignore the world outside of PC-to-PC interaction.
Please don't walk through the bazaar on fire just because you won't get crimflagged.
Please don't take your delf to Allanak to mine and sell obsidian just because you're broke.
There are always exceptions to the rules, but there are rules for a reason. Too many exceptions and the documentation and culture behind the game becomes trivial.
Quote from: morrigan on November 30, 2007, 08:05:54 AMLike when you're say, leaning against a door and another person opens the door and runs out to escape IC consequences.
I would consider this to be in the same class as power emoting. Do you judge it to be fair if, for example, I emote that my PC walks up behind yours and strangles yours to unconsciousness? It's the same thing. Taking away a PC's options with an emote, whether it's emoting leaning against a door or more obviously just emoting them dead.
>guard west
emote leans against the door.
You block victim from opening the western door.
versus
emote leans against the door.
Victim opens the door.
Victim runs west.
Here is where command emotes for everything would be useful, i.e.
guard west (leaning against the door)
(victim)
open door (dashing forward and attempting to shoulder %guard aside)
There's a problem, though, where the guard command seems to do next to nothing against a running character if you don't actually have the guard skill. And only one guild and one subguild begins with that skill.
Quote from: Malken on October 14, 2007, 07:12:09 PM
Biggest pet peeve: Anything related to trying to guess which class my character is. Like Templars asking my character to lead a patrol through a sandstorm to see if I'm really a ranger or people suddenly talking to me in cavilish when I mention that I'm a trader to see if I'm a 'merchant'.
There we go.
Quote from: Throttle on November 30, 2007, 07:26:24 PM
There's a problem, though, where the guard command seems to do next to nothing against a running character if you don't actually have the guard skill. And only one guild and one subguild begins with that skill.
Ever try to stop a running person who fears for their life?
Not easy.
Quote from: Malken on October 14, 2007, 07:12:09 PM
Biggest pet peeve: Anything related to trying to guess which class my character is. Like Templars asking my character to lead a patrol through a sandstorm to see if I'm really a ranger or people suddenly talking to me in cavilish when I mention that I'm a trader to see if I'm a 'merchant'.
The thing here is that they might not be guild-fishing, though. If I have an underling that said he was an expert hunter when he joined up and a sandstorm crops up, my PC's first thought isn't going to be "time so see if that PC is REALLY a ranger!!" It's going to be "Fuck, who's going to get us out of this? Wonder if that guy who proclaimed he was an expert hunter is outdoorsy enough."
If someone claims to be a merchant and I try talking to them in the merchant's tongue, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to be able to reply. If someone claims to be an outdoorsman and I expect them to do something city-folk can't, I don't think it's unreasonable - especially not to hope that they can. If someone claims to be a master assassin, I tend to hope they know something about poisons. These are not so much "guild fishes" as they are "things that make sense for the proclamations the character is making."
As Fathi listed as one of her peeves earlier -- people that automatically make the worst assumptions in regards to someone else's roleplay.
Quote from: Only He Stands There on December 01, 2007, 02:18:00 AM
If someone claims to be a merchant and I try talking to them in the merchant's tongue, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to be able to reply. If someone claims to be an outdoorsman and I expect them to do something city-folk can't, I don't think it's unreasonable - especially not to hope that they can. If someone claims to be a master assassin, I tend to hope they know something about poisons. These are not so much "guild fishes" as they are "things that make sense for the proclamations the character is making."
The trouble is, we assume that these skills are normal for a certain job because they are listed as belonging to the class with the same or similar name. An assassin can go their entire career without using poisons, especially if the character is using the warrior class.
So, we have the standard class skill lists influencing what skills a certain profession is supposed to have, and that just seems a little off.
Gotta roll with OHST on this one. The constant cry of guild-sniffing is so often simply us expecting something of a person who says he is something.
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on December 01, 2007, 11:05:14 AM
Gotta roll with OHST on this one. The constant cry of guild-sniffing is so often simply us expecting something of a person who says he is something.
With a class system you've got to get used to guild sniffing, it'll happen. As long as people do it elegantly and work it into the game so that it's not jarring, I have no problem with it. Much like sdesc sniffing, if you can work it into prose and not make it seem ooc then I can swing that way.
But this is a thread about peeves so I'm not sure why I'm rationalizing things.
Cause its one of your peeves?
I like where you're going with this! ;D
RPing badassness when the situation doesn't allow badassness.
Magicker acceptance raising.
Racism reducing without sufficient ic reasons to support.
People who, after finishing a drink in a tavern, emote destroying their bottles or mugs (often by casually throwing them around the tavern) and then act like it's a perfectly normal and rational thing to do.
Quote from: Throttle on December 06, 2007, 10:04:28 PM
People who, after finishing a drink in a tavern, emote destroying their bottles or mugs (often by casually throwing them around the tavern) and then act like it's a perfectly normal and rational thing to do.
In the Gaj? Perfectly acceptable. I'd raise an eyebrow if it were the Trader's.
QuoteIn the Gaj? Perfectly acceptable.
The Gaj is a lower-class establishment, not a monkey cage. You really think that the tavern's owner doesn't care at all when people smash his utensils? Not to mention the trouble that someone literally hurling bottles and mugs around would cause. Glass and clay is not free. Show me a real life tavern any place or time in the world that happily endorses the meaningless destruction of their property.
Gonna hafta agree with manonfire here. The Gaj is home of regular barfights. The bartender already sold you his clay bottle/mug/whatever, and if you were to chuck it at the elf around the corner - well, that's the militia's problem, or more likely, the elf's.
Shit, it is like 56 'sid for some whiskey. He's happy I don't bop him one for that.
Let's all get along:
It's a shitty dive bar: Some amount of broken glassware is to be expected, they turn a blind eye.
It's a shitty dive bar: Sometimes when you break the glassware they break your nose and toss you out on the street.
It's not fair, it's not predictable, it's not nice. Play it as you will. ;)
I agree with Throttle.
Quote from: Only He Stands There on December 06, 2007, 10:45:07 PM
Gonna hafta agree with manonfire here. The Gaj is home of regular barfights. The bartender already sold you his clay bottle/mug/whatever, and if you were to chuck it at the elf around the corner - well, that's the militia's problem, or more likely, the elf's.
Well, there are echoes of the bartender cleaning mugs and stuff, I honestly doubt that the utensils are considered completely disposable. He would go through thousands of mugs, plates, bottles and shot-glasses every day, each of them costing him at least a few 'sid each. Sure there are brawls; I don't think he's overly fond of them, but he'll probably accept it because it's more or less inevitable, and because many of the patrons wouldn't come if it wasn't allowed. That's not at all the same as mindlessly vandalizing the containers that he lets the patrons use. I cringe every time I see somebody emoting how they're throwing their empty mug over their shoulder without a glance. Try to imagine what the place would look like if that practice was truly "perfectly acceptable". It's another example of the blatant disregard for the virtual world that some of us consider a problem.
The booze is too expensive. I think the cup's price is included in it. And if it is included, I don't think the bartender gives two shits about whose head it is smashed into afterwards.
Quote from: Throttle on December 06, 2007, 10:39:10 PM
QuoteIn the Gaj? Perfectly acceptable.
You really think that the tavern's owner doesn't care at all when people smash his utensils?
Straw man. Tsk Tsk.
Anyway, I think the occasional drunken hurling of a clay mug is commonplace in the Gaj. I'm guilty of doing it, though most times my emotes are something like..
junk shotglass (slamming it atop the bar with a *thwap!*)
junk bottle (passing it off to a circulating waitress)
..or whatever. If my character is intoxicated, he isn't going to show the slightest bit of concern for some piece of shit clay mug. He's drunk, and the material world will pay the price.
If you honestly have so much of a problem with this, why don't you bring it up IC, and see what happens?
Heh...cleaning...Yes...he spits in them or cleans them in an armpit...I don't think he is all that worried.
Also...As Manonfire said...Bring it up IC and see what happens.
You're right, all taverns are places of business -- there to turn a prophet and would get pissed at people causing too much distraction/ damage. But like all 'rules' on Zanathas, it depends on whose breaking the rules.
However, if Throttle, you're posting about one particular IC happening I don't think that's fair.
Quote from: My 2 sids on December 07, 2007, 10:02:24 AM
You're right, all taverns are places of business -- there to turn a prophet and would get pissed at people causing too much distraction/ damage. But like all 'rules' on Zanathas, it depends on whose breaking the rules.
However, if Throttle, you're posting about one particular IC happening I don't think that's fair.
Prophets are turned to feed the Templarate's insatiable lust for public execution.
Take a look at some of the ambient echoes in the rowdier taverns. I honestly don't think barkeeps who have to deal with muls breaking arms and people knocking whole tables over and people dunkenly barfing all over customers are going to care quite as much about shoddy ceramics.
And also, I can't speak for everybody, but sometimes when I use the 'junk' command, I'm not actually RPing destroying the item in question, merely permanently removing it from my PC's sphere of interaction.
Quote from: Adiadochokinesis on December 07, 2007, 10:19:32 AM
Quote from: My 2 sids on December 07, 2007, 10:02:24 AM
You're right, all taverns are places of business -- there to turn a prophet and would get pissed at people causing too much distraction/ damage. But like all 'rules' on Zanathas, it depends on whose breaking the rules.
However, if Throttle, you're posting about one particular IC happening I don't think that's fair.
Prophets are turned to feed the Templarate's insatiable lust for public execution.
I see what you did there.
Quote from: Ghost on December 06, 2007, 10:58:29 PM
The booze is too expensive. I think the cup's price is included in it.
I think so too. They don't care if you take the cups home with you and put them in your own cupboards. Which makes it pretty hard on crafters trying to sell cups they have made. ;D This is probably the explanation for most shops refusing to buy containers, otherwise people would steal cups from the bar and sell them at shops.
It would be cool if part of the price was considered a "deposit" on the container. Then you could sell the cup back for a few coins. Everybody wins!
OOOO!!!
That is my single -greatest- peeve! You can not sell silk clothes that are containers!!! WTF????
Seriously, in the next game, containers need to be a state of an item, not an item type.
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on December 08, 2007, 06:44:42 PM
Seriously, in the next game, containers need to be a state of an item, not an item type.
Ditto this one.
Quote from: Angela Christine on December 08, 2007, 05:46:06 PM
It would be cool if part of the price was considered a "deposit" on the container. Then you could sell the cup back for a few coins. Everybody wins!
That's a very cool idea!!
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on December 08, 2007, 06:44:42 PMSeriously, in the next game, containers need to be a state of an item, not an item type.
Absolutely. And one that can be changed by a skilled enough crafter, I hope. The ability to add a tiny pocket to any appropriate item would be nice.
Morrolan
Biggest peeve of Master Qzzrbl....: Creating a character and getting it accepted, but then realizing a few days later that you don't really like him that much. >_<
Quote from: Throttle on December 06, 2007, 10:39:10 PM
QuoteIn the Gaj? Perfectly acceptable.
The Gaj is a lower-class establishment, not a monkey cage. You really think that the tavern's owner doesn't care at all when people smash his utensils? Not to mention the trouble that someone literally hurling bottles and mugs around would cause. Glass and clay is not free. Show me a real life tavern any place or time in the world that happily endorses the meaningless destruction of their property.
Having seen an imm animate the barkeep at the Gaj to bitch someone out over this, I agree with Throttle.
Dying in a really stupid way...oh andGrammar. I hat it when people don't use full stops in their speech GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR >:( >:(
People who are obviously unable to use punctuation at the end of their says and tells.
People who obviouslty either didn't read docs at all or decided not to follow them - and who are annoyed if there are consequences to their decision.
People who ignore dangerously-looking things just because they OOCly know it's not going to hurt them.
I HATE having my PC suffer for OOC reasons. Fuck.
Sorry, letting off some steam.
A minor peeve, but it has always bothered me that a lot of players avoid using conjuctions and adverbs in emotes. There's some sort of phobia against the word 'and', resulting in a lot of odd emotes along the lines of "the man walks through the door, dusting himself off, making his way to the bar, taking a seat". Less commas, more flow!
Quote from: Throttle on January 04, 2008, 09:18:44 AM
A minor peeve, but it has always bothered me that a lot of players avoid using conjuctions and adverbs in emotes. There's some sort of phobia against the word 'and', resulting in a lot of odd emotes along the lines of "the man walks through the door, dusting himself off, making his way to the bar, taking a seat". Less commas, more flow!
Command emotes force us to use that style, though. I suspect many of us simply get too used to it and do it when we don't have to. (I'd have to review my logs to see if I have that same problem or not, but I don't think I do so much with emotes)
Quote from: manonfire on December 07, 2007, 05:19:23 PM
Quote from: Adiadochokinesis on December 07, 2007, 10:19:32 AM
Quote from: My 2 sids on December 07, 2007, 10:02:24 AM
You're right, all taverns are places of business -- there to turn a prophet and would get pissed at people causing too much distraction/ damage. But like all 'rules' on Zanathas, it depends on whose breaking the rules.
However, if Throttle, you're posting about one particular IC happening I don't think that's fair.
Prophets are turned to feed the Templarate's insatiable lust for public execution.
I see what you did there.
LOL gez... Profit :D
I have no idea what you are talking about, Throttle. People actually do that?
I see a -lot- of missed punctuation, particularly with the use of commas, but I have never really notice the phobia of adverbs and conjunctions.
Well, how often do you see "the guy walks to the bar, taking a seat" compared to "the guy walks to the bar and takes a seat" in the game? I know that I've seen the former a hundred times more often. I have noticed it frequently and wondered why almost everybody chooses to break a two-action emote up with a comma instead of "and". In real life, would you say "so I walked into the bar, taking a seat" or "I walked into the bar and took a seat"? You could go either way, they're both technically correct, but for some reason this kind of emote template has evolved where multi-action emotes are almost always broken up with commas instead of adverbs and conjunctions.
The exception is 'as', which is sometimes used with grotesque frequency and often several times in the same emote.
Like I said, the "template" likely comes from command emotes.
This is almost off-topic, but the participial emoting actually tickles my fancy. That's the way Greek works (or, more accurately, worked); pearls on a string, not a line.
I get you, Throttle. If you read a book, though, you will often find pages upon pages in that exact style. That said, I can agree that sometimes, the lack of adverbs and conjunctions really screw an emote big-time.
Quote from: Mood on December 09, 2007, 09:39:00 PM
Quote from: Throttle on December 06, 2007, 10:39:10 PM
QuoteIn the Gaj? Perfectly acceptable.
The Gaj is a lower-class establishment, not a monkey cage. You really think that the tavern's owner doesn't care at all when people smash his utensils? Not to mention the trouble that someone literally hurling bottles and mugs around would cause. Glass and clay is not free. Show me a real life tavern any place or time in the world that happily endorses the meaningless destruction of their property.
Having seen an imm animate the barkeep at the Gaj to bitch someone out over this, I agree with Throttle.
Show me a real life bar stuffed with mercenaries armed to the teeth. Come on! There's vNPCs constantly being sick all over the place, players using the brawl code to hurl each other into tables, lob bottles at each other and every so often somebody actually gets killed on the premises.
I think it's perfectly fine for the barkeeper to get pissed off though, depending on the context. I'm sure members of the miltia and anyone who generally looks dangerous might get away with it.
Quote from: Zhaira on October 14, 2007, 10:51:14 PM
People asking if I have branched a specific spell, and then asking or -demanding- that I do so.
Fuck -off- about it. Just because you happen to know how the spell tree works doesn't mean every Drovian in the world or whatever else is the same.
I totally agree. I plan to post a more extensive rant on this very subject. Thank you for brining it up.
Quote from: touringCompl3t3 on January 04, 2008, 06:03:04 PM
Quote from: Zhaira on October 14, 2007, 10:51:14 PM
People asking if I have branched a specific spell, and then asking or -demanding- that I do so.
Fuck -off- about it. Just because you happen to know how the spell tree works doesn't mean every Drovian in the world or whatever else is the same.
I totally agree. I plan to post a more extensive rant on this very subject. Thank you for brining it up.
I agree, -except- in the case of people who have every right to demand such of you, and every reason to know the knowledge.
Templars speaking to gemmers, mainly.
This year, since returning to Arm, it seems like combat emotes have gone out of style. I hate that in many of the clans where you're forced to spar for hours, no one emotes at all. And everyone spams the combat commands. hit amos bash bash bash bash kick kick kick kick
And it's not one clan, it's many of them. And it's what newbies are learning as correct. If you're going to force me to spend my days skill training, giving me a little rp with it.
And if combat emotes bore you, (and I can see how they might) talk to me. Talk smack. Talk about the weather, but give me something to make me not walk away thinking "Well, there's twenty minutes of my life I'll never get back."
Happily, I've not run into that problem.
Being a big fan of combat emotes and talking shit during even sparring.
All the clans I've been in for the last 2 years, everybody has done quite well.
Now, was in the byn a while back, and when I first started my PC there, it was active and combat emotes rare. BUT, I talked shit and emoted my ass off, and in VERY short order, so did everybody else. I've found in the distant past that improving that is a change that YOU can make.
Same for other activities. Like Byn Latrine duty, My PC was a runner, so, well, you know the drill. First time in, 4 other PCs, doing nothing, not even a change ldesc. Now myself, I think its the greatest part of playing the Byn. I started in, complaining, emoting, changing ldesc etc, soon, so was everybody else. Later, when my PC was trooper, and later Sarge, people who still got the duty continued to have a good time doing it.
Also, Staff is more likley to step in on good scenes and add even more
BE THE CHANGE!
Quote from: Barzalene on January 04, 2008, 06:18:19 PM
This year, since returning to Arm, it seems like combat emotes have gone out of style. I hate that in many of the clans where you're forced to spar for hours, no one emotes at all. And everyone spams the combat commands. hit amos bash bash bash bash kick kick kick kick
And it's not one clan, it's many of them. And it's what newbies are learning as correct. If you're going to force me to spend my days skill training, giving me a little rp with it.
And if combat emotes bore you, (and I can see how they might) talk to me. Talk smack. Talk about the weather, but give me something to make me not walk away thinking "Well, there's twenty minutes of my life I'll never get back."
In my case, sometimes I won't emote as much during a fight if I'm playing a particularly buff character because my combat emotes tend to be fairly long or involved as far as targeting goes.
When I play someone who hits really hard, I keep my finger hovering over that disengage alias key out of paranoia.
I've come to within a few HP of killing someone in a spar because I was in the middle of emoting when my character got a freak roll that resulted in something like viciously piercing the poor guy on his head four times in a row. He fled, fortunately, but I've been wary ever since.
Edit for clarity: This isn't to say that I don't emote during combat anymore or that it's okay, just that there are reasons some of us don't emote as much during combat as we used to/could.
I'll admit to not emoting much when I'm sparring, but I do try to toss something in there every minute or so. It's just really hard for me to get the timing right. I'll emote something about trying to swing overhead, and the code ends up with me hitting the guy's foot. Or I'll notice that every one of my combat emotes is "emote tries to do something" because I really have no idea if the code will succeed or fail, and I don't want to power-emote. And so I just sort of let the code do what it does for awhile because it's pointless to emote after the fact, and emoting "tries to" do something every single time is repetitive and repetitious and repeats itself and does the same thing over and over again.
Quote from: Fathi on January 04, 2008, 06:41:20 PM
Quote from: Barzalene on January 04, 2008, 06:18:19 PM
This year, since returning to Arm, it seems like combat emotes have gone out of style. I hate that in many of the clans where you're forced to spar for hours, no one emotes at all. And everyone spams the combat commands. hit amos bash bash bash bash kick kick kick kick
And it's not one clan, it's many of them. And it's what newbies are learning as correct. If you're going to force me to spend my days skill training, giving me a little rp with it.
And if combat emotes bore you, (and I can see how they might) talk to me. Talk smack. Talk about the weather, but give me something to make me not walk away thinking "Well, there's twenty minutes of my life I'll never get back."
In my case, sometimes I won't emote as much during a fight if I'm playing a particularly buff character because my combat emotes tend to be fairly long or involved as far as targeting goes.
When I play someone who hits really hard, I keep my finger hovering over that disengage alias key out of paranoia.
I've come to within a few HP of killing someone in a spar because I was in the middle of emoting when my character got a freak roll that resulted in something like viciously piercing the poor guy on his head four times in a row. He fled, fortunately, but I've been wary ever since.
Edit for clarity: This isn't to say that I don't emote during combat anymore or that it's okay, just that there are reasons some of us don't emote as much during combat as we used to/could.
That's very legitimate. But I recently heard a newbie say, Oh, I was in X clan and none of the veteran players emote when sparring. And I've seen great combat emotes with one clan I since my return but none with others and some but less than I'd expect with still others.
So, not emoting in order not to kill people is an excellent idea. Not emoting cause, who wants to, or no one else does or sparring is such a good time to watch a bit of tv, less excellent.
Combat emotes can be monotonous. Chatting? Why not a bit of chatting?
I can't seem to stop posting. Sorry.
I wanted to explain. It's not that I'm so in love with combat emotes. Mostly they are awkward, and poorly timed, and often uninspired. But I hate the idea that rp should stop, when skill training begins. I have never thought that emotes = rp, but just tuning out while the code regurgitates pre-masticated canned spam doesn't seem like rp either. And in clans that spar for most of the day, that's kind of an issue.
A simple nod to argh-pee can be something like 'emote sweats heavily as he circles ~sergeantkickass' or 'emote pants tiredly as his strikes slow'. It doesn't need to be poetry.
Quote from: Troicha on January 04, 2008, 06:07:33 PM
I agree, -except- in the case of people who have every right to demand such of you, and every reason to know the knowledge.
Templars speaking to gemmers, mainly.
I'm not sure . . . are spell/skill trees part of in character reality? I'm not sure that they are, not completely.
Can you order a Ranger to Climb, or learn to Climb, just because you believe that Rangers can eventually branch the Climb skill? If the Ranger says he doesn't know how to climb, do you tell him to go practice killing tregils until he learns to climb? I'm not saying that Rangers can or can not climb, or that tregil killing helps a ranger branch climb, I'm merely pointing out that doing one thing causes another (possibly unrelated) thing to branch, which is a bit odd. Often there is no obvious link between practicing X and learning Y, ICly the two things may seem completely unrelated.
I'd be dubious about a Templar ordering my Krathi to Vomit Lava, and then when I say I don't know how to Vomit Lava, he tells me to practice Burning Toast until I figure out how to Vomit Lava. I'd think the Templar was a bit of a Loon if he did that. The Burning Toast spell is pretty pointless and a waste of magickal ability, why would I want ruin lots of perfectly good bread? And how the heck will that help me learn to Vomit Lava? Am I supposed to eat the Burning Toast until it makes me sick? Since Elementalists are a disorganized bunch who use a variety of different methods to work their magick, and have a variety of bizarre explanations for how and why their magick works the way it does, it would be silly to assume that everyone learns their spells the same way in and in the same order. Relying on your OOC knowledge of the skill/spell trees and branching mechanics will be hard to justify even if you have carefully observed several elementalists and/or are an elementalist yourself.
A templar can't order a ranger to branch, say, leatherworking (I don't know if that's in the ranger skill tree), but a templar who has dealt with, say, Vivs before, knows that they can create water. So that templar can go around ordering those Vivs to practice their watermaking (heh) because he/she wants to.
Gotta chime in on the combat emotes.
For me, combat emotes are the best part of the game, just because you can go completely crazy elaborating what you're doing to that poor critter. Seriously, go crazy. Amuse yourself.
emote Shouting wildly, @ lunges at ~braxat like a spice junkie going through withdrawals, the tip of the weapon embedding itself into %braxat eye, causing a stomach-churning eruption of blood, gore, and all the other nasty shit that comes out of an eye.
Critical kicks are great for emotes, too.
em kicks the ever-loving shit out of %jozhal head, shards of skull and bits of gray matter scattering all over the fucking place.
Quote from: manonfire on January 04, 2008, 10:01:27 PM
Gotta chime in on the combat emotes.
For me, combat emotes are the best part of the game, just because you can go completely crazy elaborating what you're doing to that poor critter. Seriously, go crazy. Amuse yourself.
emote Shouting wildly, @ lunges at ~braxat like a spice junkie going through withdrawals, the tip of the weapon embedding itself into %braxat eye, causing a stomach-churning eruption of blood, gore, and all the other nasty shit that comes out of an eye.
Critical kicks are great for emotes, too.
em kicks the ever-loving shit out of %jozhal head, shards of skull and bits of gray matter scattering all over the fucking place.
The imms must love watching you hunt.
Except all those really awesome emotes look really really really really stupid when the code returns:
>You swing at a braxat, and miss.
>A jozhal deftly blocks your pierce.
Combat emotes are great once your character is good enough that you can reasonably predict how he'll match up against his target. If you're sparring against a dummy, combat emotes are just "emote swings and misses" over and over and over again, using different phrasing each time but saying the same thing. Thrusts, swings, lunges, circles around, hops to the side, hops back, thrusts, swings, arcs, lunges, circles around, hops to the side, hops back, thrusts, swings, arcs, lunges, etc. etc. etc. You know you won't bust that dummy open. You know that before you even get into the ring. All you'll do is bounce your weapon on the surface. Every single time, no matter how you lunge, or how fast your blades riposte, or how fancy your footwork. That dummy ain't gonna die, period. And the emoting involved in trying to kill it is SO boring that I'd rather just let the code do what it needs to do, and run to the kitchen to get another cup of coffee until the vnps move the dummy out of the ring.
Quote from: Lizzie on January 04, 2008, 10:46:40 PM
Except all those really awesome emotes look really really really really stupid when the code returns:
>You swing at a braxat, and miss.
>A jozhal deftly blocks your pierce.
Combat emotes are great once your character is good enough that you can reasonably predict how he'll match up against his target. If you're sparring against a dummy, combat emotes are just "emote swings and misses" over and over and over again, using different phrasing each time but saying the same thing. Thrusts, swings, lunges, circles around, hops to the side, hops back, thrusts, swings, arcs, lunges, circles around, hops to the side, hops back, thrusts, swings, arcs, lunges, etc. etc. etc. You know you won't bust that dummy open. You know that before you even get into the ring. All you'll do is bounce your weapon on the surface. Every single time, no matter how you lunge, or how fast your blades riposte, or how fancy your footwork. That dummy ain't gonna die, period. And the emoting involved in trying to kill it is SO boring that I'd rather just let the code do what it needs to do, and run to the kitchen to get another cup of coffee until the vnps move the dummy out of the ring.
That's why I normally emote AFTER the coded result.
You bludgeon a ring-tailed jozhal on its head, inflicting a grievous wound.
> emote swings ~club down in a wide swing, crushing the jozhal's head in one fell swoop with an explosion of little bone bits and brains!
I got a sparring dummy to terrible once:)
And even if your blows are bouncing off it, thats still hitting...So, more fun emotes. And no staff is going to smite you for emoting damage to the dummy, it gets fixed every evening anyway.
Quote from: Fathi on January 04, 2008, 10:52:47 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on January 04, 2008, 10:46:40 PM
Except all those really awesome emotes look really really really really stupid when the code returns:
>You swing at a braxat, and miss.
>A jozhal deftly blocks your pierce.
Combat emotes are great once your character is good enough that you can reasonably predict how he'll match up against his target. If you're sparring against a dummy, combat emotes are just "emote swings and misses" over and over and over again, using different phrasing each time but saying the same thing. Thrusts, swings, lunges, circles around, hops to the side, hops back, thrusts, swings, arcs, lunges, circles around, hops to the side, hops back, thrusts, swings, arcs, lunges, etc. etc. etc. You know you won't bust that dummy open. You know that before you even get into the ring. All you'll do is bounce your weapon on the surface. Every single time, no matter how you lunge, or how fast your blades riposte, or how fancy your footwork. That dummy ain't gonna die, period. And the emoting involved in trying to kill it is SO boring that I'd rather just let the code do what it needs to do, and run to the kitchen to get another cup of coffee until the vnps move the dummy out of the ring.
That's why I normally emote AFTER the coded result.
You bludgeon a ring-tailed jozhal on its head, inflicting a grievous wound.
> emote swings ~club down in a wide swing, crushing the jozhal's head in one fell swoop with an explosion of little bone bits and brains!
Yep.
Nice try, but you don't get to shit in my coffee, Lizzie. ;D
Don't emote actual strikes.. just go atmospheric in combat, general movement schemes, motions.. sure some for the bash/kick/disarm attempts. The noise the group is making, the eventual fatigue..there's considered to be a host of background strikes often that the code does not represent, so you can emote the sequences of blocks and parries in more competitive matches there..I find injuries are more easily and accurately portrayed than attacks, so go with those..You get to react to getting hammered in the face, with no 'ifs'.
Quote from: Troicha on January 04, 2008, 06:07:33 PM
Quote from: touringCompl3t3 on January 04, 2008, 06:03:04 PM
Quote from: Zhaira on October 14, 2007, 10:51:14 PM
People asking if I have branched a specific spell, and then asking or -demanding- that I do so.
Fuck -off- about it. Just because you happen to know how the spell tree works doesn't mean every Drovian in the world or whatever else is the same.
I totally agree. I plan to post a more extensive rant on this very subject. Thank you for brining it up.
I agree, -except- in the case of people who have every right to demand such of you, and every reason to know the knowledge.
Templars speaking to gemmers, mainly.
I found this to be particularly irritating, myself. It reduces magick to mechanics once figures of authority start expecting you to progress along a timetable. And then when my character tried to comply and meet a deadline, someone else got upset over her "spam casting". If she had been a fire mage, there would have been a few dead bodies lying around after that incident.
Quote from: Hot_Dancer on January 05, 2008, 09:55:41 AM
Don't emote actual strikes.. just go atmospheric in combat, general movement schemes, motions.. sure some for the bash/kick/disarm attempts. The noise the group is making, the eventual fatigue..there's considered to be a host of background strikes often that the code does not represent, so you can emote the sequences of blocks and parries in more competitive matches there..I find injuries are more easily and accurately portrayed than attacks, so go with those..You get to react to getting hammered in the face, with no 'ifs'.
This is what I usually try stick with. To be honest, I can't make many emotes that both truly reflect the combat code and make sense at the same time. I just can't relate to it. Also, I simply don't have the typing speed to come up with a decent emote to reflect specific strikes in combat.
So, the most dramatic emotes come at the end, when I have plenty of time to type out a good emote.
The gaunt, brown-haired man viciously pierces the lean, brown skinned elf on the neck!
The lean, brown-skinned elf crumples to the ground.
The gaunt, brown-skinned man shoves the lean, brown-skinned elf against the cold, alley wall and rams his knife into his gut.
The gaunt, brown-skinned man stares coldly into the lean, brown-skinned elf's eyes as he wrenches his knife upwards through his flesh and then jerks it free.
kill elf
The gaunt, brown-haired man lets the limp form of the body of the lean, brown-skinned elf fall to the ground and then turns to walk down the alley at a swift stride.
arrange body ~ lies here in a heap against the wall of the alley.
Quote from: Salt Merchant on January 05, 2008, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: Troicha on January 04, 2008, 06:07:33 PM
Quote from: touringCompl3t3 on January 04, 2008, 06:03:04 PM
Quote from: Zhaira on October 14, 2007, 10:51:14 PM
People asking if I have branched a specific spell, and then asking or -demanding- that I do so.
Fuck -off- about it. Just because you happen to know how the spell tree works doesn't mean every Drovian in the world or whatever else is the same.
I totally agree. I plan to post a more extensive rant on this very subject. Thank you for brining it up.
I agree, -except- in the case of people who have every right to demand such of you, and every reason to know the knowledge.
Templars speaking to gemmers, mainly.
I found this to be particularly irritating, myself. It reduces magick to mechanics once figures of authority start expecting you to progress along a timetable. And then when my character tried to comply and meet a deadline, someone else got upset over her "spam casting". If she had been a fire mage, there would have been a few dead bodies lying around after that incident.
I was thinking more just of specific spells and the like. So, for example, if I'm a templar, and there's a gemmer Drovian I know can cast the 'shade' spell, I see no reason OOCly motivated reason not to demand the other Drovian learn as well, if I want him to. 'course, that's because I don't know that 'shade' is a final tier spell, and further, I don't really demand a time table. But I think this is a derail.
Quote from: Troicha on January 06, 2008, 02:08:23 PM
I don't know that 'shade' is a final tier spell.
Me neither.... 'Till now.
I'm pretty sure that was used as an example.
Quote from: Adiadochokinesis on January 06, 2008, 11:24:02 PM
I'm pretty sure that was used as an example.
That was just an example. I actually have no idea what's even ON the Drovian spell list.
Quote from: Troicha on January 06, 2008, 11:28:24 PM
Quote from: Adiadochokinesis on January 06, 2008, 11:24:02 PM
I'm pretty sure that was used as an example.
That was just an example. I actually have no idea what's even ON the Drovian spell list.
....Oh. :-X
One reason I don't play gemmers. ;)
Maybe I am wrong to view it this way, but I see 'magick' as a science in Zalanthas. It certainly behaves like a pseudo-science in that one learns and accomplishes incredible feats of altering/affecting the world through trial and error. Instead of viewing the magick system as 'dead mechanics', I try to treat it as a living system. There are natural laws governing magick in Zalanthas just like there are for anything.
For someone who understands (to an extent) the system, predicting potential outcomes is possible. An elementalist 'master' might know what is possible for his or her students to learn and how best to 'guide' them toward that understanding. A Templar might know what is possible from past experience with mages of the same element, but that doesn't make them an expert in how an elementalist might achieve the desired knowledge.
Elementalists are what they are because of their 'gift' and there is a defined approach to understanding it. Anyone might -learn- how magick works, and some few might actually learn to use it, but that is NOT elementalism. That's sorcery. According to the documentation on sorcery, one doesn't have to be a 'wizard' to learn a spell or two.
I'd actually like if magicks are not viewed as set-in-stone list of spells. I mean, yeah. A templar might demand anything. S/he might also demand a commoner to go and grow second head. But IMHO it would be cool if each Gemmer is taken as an individual with own list of spells ICly (no matter OOCly their spell-tree is the same). One Drovian might know "shade" and second might know "the ultra deadly spell of doom" and it would be nice if nobody expects one to learn others proficiency. It's a little like if you know your Sergeant is a code-eise warrior-guild and you demand him to learn use clubs (or something really unusual - for example whips), because you know your other Sergeant uses them and it's useful sometime. Hey, he might be the best sword-master in the whole city, does his lack of knowledge about clubs (whips) means he is useles and should change his approach? Wouldn't be better to send club-using Sergeant for club-needing works and send the sword-using Sergeant to jobs which require swords instead of trying to make them both to be masters of boths?
Indeed, I never saw anyone demanding a warrior to learn skill XX. I just saw Templars demanding Gemmers to learn spell YY. I understand where it comes from... but I still think it's better not to fall into this trap.
I'm not saying templars do anything -wrong- in what they do. As I said, IMO, Templars could demand... whatever they want to demand. I'm just sharing my own opinion on this matter.
I don't think a random spell list would be very useful to elementalists at all. A vivaduan who can dry up all the water in an oasis, but can't produce his own water? A stone mage who can cast avalanche, but can't make his own mount?
Elementalists are non-random in their lists for a reason. It's for playability. If you were to randomize the lists, you might as well do the same for rangers. Make it so that you have no way of knowing if your ranger character will -ever- learn how to ride a mount, and that one ranger will learn how to use a bow and another won't. Then move on to pickpockets - some will learn how to steal, others won't. How about assassins? Have it random so some learn poison, others learn bandage, and yet others learn backstab, but you never know which of these skills you -won't- have.
See, it's pretty silly when you apply this to other classes. It takes the playability out of them. Elementalists are very very limited as to the skills they are capable of achieving. Mostly, they ARE their spell list, and their subguild. They aren't much of anything else. Other guilds have various weapon types, fighting styles, defensive measures, perception skills, etc. etc. etc. Elementalists don't have all that, except when their spell lists gives it to them by way of the spells themselves. If you take away their spell list and turn it random, you end up with a character that no one will want to try, because they are functionally (codewise) unplayable.
It would possibly be more interesting if characters had to earn their individual spells from the elements or mentors - perhaps either changing the teaching command in this case to impart new knowledge to the character in question.
Perhaps magickers could be granted spells for good works (as the element / mentor sees it), the level of trust the mentor / elementalist has in the underling.
This would also serve to "randomize" the spell list to a degree - though one would expect that the least of all Water mages would likely be able to fill a skin of water.
(As an aside changing things up so the summoning water was one of the most difficult spells and hugely impressive would be cool.)
This idea would have the added benefit of enhancing the roleplay between mentors and teachers, seeking and questing teachers, and developing plot lines as students struggle to increase themselves in the eyes of their masters.
Very cool stuff. You would also have magickers really pissed off when you killed their teachers. =)
AND if someone knows that Mad Sorcerer of the Night had the Shadow of Doom spell and that it was very rare, killing him might just ACTUALLY rid the world of the risk. At least until another mage sold his soul to Drov for the knowledge.
Negatives to this idea that I can think of include losing common knowledge to the player base (suddenly no one can teach the "darkness" spell because as the Pbase fluctuates the last person who knew it was killed and increased staff interaction required (this is a negative?) to make sure certain spell lines were always available.
I actually didn't mean that spell-tree of magickers should be random. I meant that while you OOCly know there are certain spells on the tree, it should not mean that this certain PC you know -has to- achieve the spell (just because you OOCly know he can). Maybe he focuses on other spells? Maybe this certain elementalist can't get the spell at all, because his "gift" isn't big enough to allow him to gain The Super Secret Spell of Doom? Maybe he won't ever know more than three four spells? I mean, it's a talent. One can be talented more than the other one. You can't really demand him to be -more- talented and expect it to happen, hm? Well, alright, you can demand. But I was trying to point out it would be cool if magickers are not viewed as "bunch of spells", but more like people with certain talent/taint/curse - which might come with certain spells... or not.
I was pointing out it would be nice if approach of some PCs change... not that the code should change.
Quote from: Elgiva on January 07, 2008, 01:04:56 PM
Maybe this certain elementalist can't get the spell at all, because his "gift" isn't big enough to allow him to gain The Super Secret Spell of Doom? Maybe he won't ever know more than three four spells?
We all know that every elementalist gets the same spells due to the static spell coding system -- I wonder if there ever was a magicker that stopped practicing his spells after he has learned 5-6 spells for the better good of RP as if he has reached his maximum 'gift' limit :)
One more thing I wanted to add -- I saw that there are several players who dislike bad grammar or poor emotes -- I myself am not american, and english is not my primary language, but thanks to the wonderful world of Armageddon I've learned english over the years ever since I started to play the mud.
My emotes are still poor due to lack of vocabulary -- I just want to say to those who dislike poor emotes, or bad grammar ... I have no intention in ruining your gameplay, I just want to have fun and enjoy the game as much as you do, I just do it in the best way that I know and I try to improve my english as I go bye, tolerance toward that would be much appreciated :)
P.S. If I made any grammar typos in this post, let me know :)
Quote from: TripleX on January 07, 2008, 01:41:06 PM
P.S. If I made any grammar typos in this post, let me know :)
I just want to have fun and enjoy the game as much as you do, I just do it in the best way that I know and I try to improve my
English as I go
by, tolerance toward that would be much appreciated.
You asked, otherwise I wouldn't have. I love international players, from whom typos and the like do not bother me. I'll even give explanation for the above corrections if you like.
Judging from your post you'll do just fine. ;)
Just play the game, and if someone out there wets them self every time you make a typo, that's their problem. You look like you'd do just fine, and as long as you don't do anything so jarring it disrupts the experience of those around you nobody has any right to complain at all.
I've yet to get negative account notes for a misplaced semi-colon.
Hey, TripleX, I'm just like you! Don't feel bad about it, Armageddon is probably the best thing that happened to me, language-wise. There's nothing better than speaking with someone and they tell you something like, "Really? I never would have guessed that english is your second (or third, if you're like me) language."
Quote from: TripleX on January 07, 2008, 01:35:39 PM
Quote from: Elgiva on January 07, 2008, 01:04:56 PM
Maybe this certain elementalist can't get the spell at all, because his "gift" isn't big enough to allow him to gain The Super Secret Spell of Doom? Maybe he won't ever know more than three four spells?
We all know that every elementalist gets the same spells due to the static spell coding system -- I wonder if there ever was a magicker that stopped practicing his spells after he has learned 5-6 spells for the better good of RP as if he has reached his maximum 'gift' limit :)
My problem is that knowledge about static spell coding system looks as OOC knowledge to me. And also, we have the similar knowledge about rangers or warriors... but nobody asks them to branch certain skill.
Additionally - I'm not sure if any stopped practicing spells because of this reason, but I remember more than one fairly long living magicker who had not more than basic spells.
Quote from: Elgiva on January 07, 2008, 02:03:17 PM
And also, we have the similar knowledge about rangers or warriors... but nobody asks them to branch certain skill.
I'm not sure that's necessarily true. I've seen people be instructed in particular methods of combat, be it to use a shield or try to knock someone off their feet. I think it's perfectly reasonable as a leader character to be able to expect people serving under you to attempt to learn particular techniques, whether or not you think oocly they're set up to learn it.
If your templar had a krathi pet that lit people's toes on fire during interrogation, he may ask the guy's replacement to try something similar. If your sergeant wants you to fight as a cohesive unit with shields, he'll ask you to pick up as a shield regardless of whether you're a ranger or a warrior.
I see a difference between "practice <this> to serve better" and constant questions "are you finally able to do <that>?" Would you keep asking your new recruit-warrior if he is finally able to navigate in the sandstorm? No, because you OOCly know he possibly can't. Will you demand your recruit to finally learn poisoning arrows? Will you be annoyed your Sergeant doesn't use one of that super-special weapons and demand him to learn it, asking every other day if he finally did? Maybe, I myself never saw that IG - but I saw plenty of templars asking Gemmers again and again if they are finally able to cast <whatever>. I don't know, it's simply something what made my playing of Gemmer (years ago) less enjoyable than it could had been - I felt sentenced to sit in the Temple and cast-cast-cast just to branch-branch-branch (and when I did, I was blamed by other player I do nothing else than that).
This is true - I've had warriors and rangers expected to learn specific skills and magickers, in fact, as well. I don't see this as bad role play if the person doing the expecting has knowledge.
For example, a Templar who has ten, twenty years of exposure to elementalists (and might even have some of the spells) may expect that a certain type of mage can do a certain thing or know a direction of study that a particular mage should take to benefit the templar.
This is the same as a Lord (who may or not be experienced in combat) might expect his warrior bodyguards to be able to guard him or rescue him. This is not unreasonable in my book.
Quote from: TripleX on January 07, 2008, 01:41:06 PM
One more thing I wanted to add -- I saw that there are several players who dislike bad grammar or poor emotes -- I myself am not american, and english is not my primary language, but thanks to the wonderful world of Armageddon I've learned english over the years ever since I started to play the mud.
My emotes are still poor due to lack of vocabulary -- I just want to say to those who dislike poor emotes, or bad grammar ... I have no intention in ruining your gameplay, I just want to have fun and enjoy the game as much as you do, I just do it in the best way that I know and I try to improve my english as I go bye, tolerance toward that would be much appreciated :)
P.S. If I made any grammar typos in this post, let me know :)
You're doing just fine. Armageddon is a great place to learn English better; I know it's improved mine.
My complaints about grammar/punctuation are more against obvious laziness.
It doesn't matter what language somebody speaks natively--if you know enough English to apply for a PC and get them accepted on Armageddon, you know that sentences start with a capital letter and end with some form of punctuation mark. Yet several characters my PC has met never bother doing these things. It's laziness and it's irritating. :/
One of the things people really trip on is guild sniffing. I can half-way understand this, but when I ask if you can do this, and you say, I sorta know how, or I can learn that later, don't be pissy if I expect you to know it at some point during your career.
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on January 07, 2008, 02:59:49 PM
One of the things people really trip on is guild sniffing. I can half-way understand this, but when I ask if you can do this, and you say, I sorta know how, or I can learn that later, don't be pissy if I expect you to know it at some point during your career.
...and I wonder if this is really guild sniffing. I mean if you want someone who can speak Cavalish fluently or knows how to track a Vestric, you should ask, right? I mean, you wouldn't exactly hire me to do carpentry around your house, but maybe you would if you needed a website or something. Is that guild sniffing?
Well, it gets construed as guild sniffing, which, if you are addressing underlings, I really don't see as being that bad. You need to know what you people can do, absolutely, and that sorta means you need to understand what their talents are. If I ask you if you know how to guard a man's ass, and you say yeh, and then you never ever ever manage to guard me, I am going to kick in the side of your head. If I give you a bow and tell you that this is the weapon we use, get used to it, and you say ok but never do, I am going to kick in your head.
On the flip side of that coin, I'd imagine most player leaders would be understanding if they saw you practicing every damn day with that bow and never quite getting it. Within limits of course, since as a leader they may eventually have to accept that your strengths lie in other areas or that you'll just never be the archer Amos was.
One thing that's really impressed me about the leaders of this game is that it really seems that they value reliable, intelligent people over skills. I realize that someone probably disagrees with that, and that's fine. ;)
Magickers and mundanes alike should also realize that if a leader-type person is asking you to learn <blah>, it's possible that in part they are thinking of YOU and YOUR FUN. Some skills are more useful than others, thus some skills will allow you to be used more frequently, and that means more character interaction, more plot involvement, and probably more rewards for your character. Finding a real use for a newbie <any guild here> is quite difficult, so leaders will look for training directions you can take in order to become more involved.
I once played a Sergeant, and I would ask EVERY recruit if they had a hobby. Was I trying to find out their subguild? Nope. I was trying to find out what my character would recommend they do, on days when there was no one to spar with. If some new recruit said they had a knack for leatherwork, I'd be -delighted- to show them where to find hides in the barracks, and give them their very own leatherworking knife or hide scraper. I'd even suggest to them that I was fine with them using downtime to make helmets for the unit and he'd get a bonus if he could make more than he ruined using the House raw materials.
If he said he liked carving up rocks, I'd GLADLY rid the store room of the 4,000,000 pounds of jasper by encouraging him to have fun destroying them all.
And so on and so forth. It wasn't to be a guild sniffer, it was to make sure he had some use for -whatever- subguild his player picked, and that he had something to keep him busy and not too bored when no one was around to interact with him.
What used to bug me, as the player of that Sergeant, was when I'd ask if they had a hobby and they'd hem and haw and deliberately not answer the question. If you picked a subguild that you didn't want your sarge to know about, or didn't want to divulge yet, it's SO easy to just say "nope, no hobbies." Of course then you'd need to accept that your Sarge has NOT authorized you to do any crafting, because you told her you don't have any of those kinds of interests or talents. And then you'd have to accept the IC consequences if you got caught in the crafting hall working with hides when you were supposed to be solo-RPing in the sparring circle :)
Quote from: Gimfalisette on January 07, 2008, 03:21:29 PM
Magickers and mundanes alike should also realize that if a leader-type person is asking you to learn <blah>, it's possible that in part they are thinking of YOU and YOUR FUN. Some skills are more useful than others, thus some skills will allow you to be used more frequently, and that means more character interaction, more plot involvement, and probably more rewards for your character. Finding a real use for a newbie <any guild here> is quite difficult, so leaders will look for training directions you can take in order to become more involved.
No. I really think it was out of line for my commanding templar to tell me, a member of a cavalry unit, to learn how to ride a sunlon.
Absolutely ridiculous. I don't understand why people play this game. Do they want to spoil all the joy I get from discovering that I can learn to ride on my own?
What is a sunlon?
Why are you ruining my immersion?!
As to guild sniffing, it is really annoying sometimes how people are so against it. Blatant, obvious guild-sniffing is a bad thing, I'd agree. But for all you folks who cry when an employer tries to at least get some idea what you're capable of, at least try to come up with something useful to market yourself. I can't say how many times I've had to deal with this situation as a pc recruiter for my clan.
Amos: Hello, I would like to work for X.
Me: Oh yeah? We'll we're always lookin' for fine folks. What do you have to offer to the team?
Amos: Well I thought I could be an agent.
Me: Well typically we don't hire straight into that position, have any applicable skills we can make use of to get you to a place you can work for that?
Amos: Well uh, I am a pretty good cook. ((I've met more cooks than ANYTHING else)
Me: Ah, well we've got cooks on staff already, any good with your hands?
Amos: I can make arrows.
Me: What about a blade, any good?
Amos: I never really had the knack
Me: No trouble, not for everyone. Fletcher's aren't quite what we're looking for.
Amos: I have good ears.
Me: Oh yeah? They are quite nice and round, lad. But again, mostly just looking for handimen'er hunters. Anything else that makes it worth my time to bring you on?
Amos: I uh...umm.
At this point I can guess they might be a magicker. Folks might call it guild sniffing, but myself, and many other leadership PC's have been through it over and over, and at least ICly I find myself tired of hiring on one-trick ponies, having been shown time and time again in game they aren't worth the trouble, and OOCly knowing it's just another thief or magicker wanting to get in. As a concession, half the time I take on these employees knowing almost for a fact OOC they are thieves or 'gickers, but at the same time knowing they need an environment to play in, even if it just becomes a method for my character to earn the trust of and then eliminate these wretches.
Quote from: Lizzie on January 07, 2008, 04:59:29 PM
I once played a Sergeant, and I would ask EVERY recruit if they had a hobby.
Yeah. "So what are you interested in? Hobbies? What do you do on your free time?" *blank stare in return* And the conversation takes like an HOUR when it should take TEN MINUTES for me to find out this information. *cry*
As a hobby, I like to stab people in the face with sharp objects. My main interest, though, is to create small mementos out of flowers.
Quote from: TripleX on January 07, 2008, 01:41:06 PM
One more thing I wanted to add -- I saw that there are several players who dislike bad grammar or poor emotes -- I myself am not american, and english is not my primary language, but thanks to the wonderful world of Armageddon I've learned english over the years ever since I started to play the mud.
My emotes are still poor due to lack of vocabulary -- I just want to say to those who dislike poor emotes, or bad grammar ... I have no intention in ruining your gameplay, I just want to have fun and enjoy the game as much as you do, I just do it in the best way that I know and I try to improve my english as I go bye, tolerance toward that would be much appreciated :)
P.S. If I made any grammar typos in this post, let me know :)
Based on this post... you're fine. Non-native speakers (who do their best, that is) are not the problem - lazy folks are. I can understand grammatical errors that come from not being completely familiar with the language. What I can't understand is...
QuoteThe tall, muscular man says, in southern-accented sirihish:
"oh hi malik how are you"
The other tall, muscular man says, in southern-accented sirihish:
"im pretty gud how about yorself"
Quote from: Malken on January 07, 2008, 10:27:39 PM
As a hobby, I like to stab people in the face with sharp objects. My main interest, though, is to create small mementos out of flowers.
You just made my night.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on January 07, 2008, 10:03:22 PM
Yeah. "So what are you interested in? Hobbies? What do you do on your free time?" *blank stare in return* And the conversation takes like an HOUR when it should take TEN MINUTES for me to find out this information. *cry*
Gee, thanks, Gim--I have a sinking feeling that my current clan leader did this to my current char and got
*blank stare in return*ed.
There's always the problem that a starting character doesn't really have any skill at anything. Some people may be playing it safe by not claiming stuff they haven't really ever tried--another line of questioning would be, "What do you want to learn to do?"
Card tricks.
Card tricks?
Yeah. And arguing with shopkeepers.
Quote from: BuNutzCola on January 07, 2008, 06:05:12 PMAt this point I can guess they might be a magicker. Folks might call it guild sniffing, but myself, and many other leadership PC's have been through it over and over, and at least ICly I find myself tired of hiring on one-trick ponies, having been shown time and time again in game they aren't worth the trouble, and OOCly knowing it's just another thief or magicker wanting to get in. As a concession, half the time I take on these employees knowing almost for a fact OOC they are thieves or 'gickers, but at the same time knowing they need an environment to play in, even if it just becomes a method for my character to earn the trust of and then eliminate these wretches.
It's guild sniffing if you ICly come to the conclusion that said PC is a magicker (or thief/assassin). The worst kind, in my opinion.
However, there are also plenty of people who do just want to play non-skilled social roles (aides) but don't want to apply for nobles and GMH agents. Players are never required to use all the skills on their list, let alone claim any proficiency in them during an interview. The roguish guilds in particular are actually good for these types of characters, discounting steal, pick, backstab, and so on.
(Though I've always wanted to play a character high sneak, hide, and steal skills who was the uber ninja aide, remaining hidden until his lord needed a drink refilled, stealing it from them, filling it, and planting it back without ever being seen. Quadruple points for doing that to his lord's guests. ;D )
Quote from: Gimfalisette on January 07, 2008, 10:03:22 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on January 07, 2008, 04:59:29 PM
I once played a Sergeant, and I would ask EVERY recruit if they had a hobby.
Yeah. "So what are you interested in? Hobbies? What do you do on your free time?" *blank stare in return* And the conversation takes like an HOUR when it should take TEN MINUTES for me to find out this information. *cry*
I'd take that one step further. People won't even admit to non-coded hobbies. (Often I do this too.)
"Huh? Interests? But... but I'm a warrior, I FIGHT"
Glad I'm not the only one affected by these sorts of things!
I had a PC once who juggled. He, a house guard, got so much flack for that! It was like -players- couldn't believe a PC would behave well-rounded or something.
I have also noticed how hard it can be to play a mundane PC. Both my PC obsidian-hacker/ salt-grubber & street proformer/ begger got nearly the same reaction even though I played them in different cities. In both there was a three-step reaction. One) people tried to hire me for 'real jobs' Two) Then people assumed my PC was some sort of thief or spy Three) Finally, people (players really) seemed to be angry I didn't want to work for them as an employee or spy. It was all kind of fascinating.
My hobby (pick one for your next interview)
- collecting pretty young boys/girls/kanks.
- counting my 'sid
- running
- drinking
- whittling
- tidying things
- stand-up comedy (you're in my clan SO FAST)
- whoring
- philosophy
- eating
- spicing
- shooting the shit at the Storm's End
- vestric-watching
- spelunking
- camping
- going to plays
- partying
- feeling up the bar wenches
- cracking jokes at grebbers
- roughing up skinnies/halfies/shorties/roundears
- window shopping
- collecting ANYTHING
- sex
- ritual scarification
- jozhal-fights
- studying flora/fauna
- picking on slaves
- reminiscing
- arguing/debating
Oh, look, a non-exhaustive list of non-coded hobbies off the top of my head.
Right, and if any of those hobbies were things my Sergeant PC felt were useful to the house, she would have encouraged your character to do those things on his/her day off, nights off, and - times when there were no other PCs to spar with during sparring hours, or "field training" days when the Sarge wasn't around to take your PC out to train in the field.
And again, if none of those hobbies are things my Sergeant PC felt were useful to the House, you would have been stuck in the sparring ring, solo-RPing hour after hour after hour, OR deciding that your character is fine with breaking the rules. For a "law abiding" clannie, who might be in a clan that isn't active every single time you log in to the game, the whole coded craft thing can be the deciding factor in a new player deciding whether or not he wants to bother playing, if all he ever does all day is stand idle in a sparring ring or toss out emotes that no one else is around to see. ESPECIALLY if the clan's dummy only comes out for a short period of time, or the clan doesn't have a dummy, only a ring.
That's why I pick crafts for subguilds, if I'm not picking the merchant main guild. So *I* have something in addition to solo-RPing to do when I"m logged in, and there isn't anyone else around to RP with.
You know, every step we take to make the game revolve around activities which are "good for the house" is another step away from well-rounded PCs and twards hack-n-slash/ skills-are-everything game maintaility.
Leader PCs, maybe it's time (for playability) we start doing more than two-day weekends and working from dawn till dusk? Throw in some half-days or some more days off. There doens't need to be this "nine-to-five" maintaility.
Quote from: My 2 sids on January 08, 2008, 12:25:18 PM
You know, every step we take to make the game revolve around activities which are "good for the house" is another step away from well-rounded PCs and twards hack-n-slash/ skills-are-everything game maintaility.
Leader PCs, maybe it's time (for playability) we start doing more than two-day weekends and working from dawn till dusk? Throw in some half-days or some more days off. There doens't need to be this "nine-to-five" maintaility.
It's not really a 9-to-5 mentality. It's a structure which is meant to address some issues that players/clans have:
-- Players tend to believe that if they are not working on a skill right that moment, then they are "not doing anything," and the time is wasted, and they become bored. Schedules provide a framework of skill-building to address this.
-- Players, if left to themselves, will often choose to spar all day or work on X skill all day, instead of taking breaks that make sense. Schedules provide realistic limits to skill-building.
-- Players, if left to themselves, will often choose to be places where their clan mates are not. Schedules provide a set time and place for clan members to meet up and interact.
MOST of what is done on any given clan's schedule has very little to do with what is "good for the clan" beyond the above issues. Train a warrior PC for an RL month of sparring and s/he is probably fine to do whatever needs to be done as cannon fodder in battles. But the schedule still gets followed after that, because of the above.
I half agree with Sids, and half with Gimf. You have some players, as Gim says, that do nothing but sit in a training room and spar and spar because they -think- they'll turn into the ubber warrior of doom and no one gets to interact with them unless there is a schedule. Problem is, and the reason I half agree with sids to, is the other half that want to actually RP and not spam train get ten minutes to do so (except for a 'day off') by the time dusk roles around, they finish and put equipment away, and then walk to the nearest tavern. Random days off in the week would be good for this reason but its a -really- fine line on what would be considered IC.
As for an actual peeve as to not derail the thread more - people who take IC actions OOC because they know you. Whether I knife your character in the back or mudsex their brains out should not effect how nice or angry you are with me IRL. It's a -game-.
Quote from: Janna on January 08, 2008, 12:54:03 PMAs for an actual peeve as to not derail the thread more - people who take IC actions OOC because they know you. Whether I knife your character in the back or mudsex their brains out should not effect how nice or angry you are with me IRL. It's a -game-.
Not directed at you Janna, but I dislike the hypocrisy of people who say the above as though on a high horse while regularly doing the same themselves.
I also dislike it when people who had a character that didn't like yours dies or stores and their very next character hates yours right off the bat. Especially when their char conjures up some retarded reason to cover their ass, like "he smells funny" or "he reminds me of this one guy in my past that one night hit me over the head" or "he wears the wrong colors". I have come across three of these in the last couple rl months.
As for the final item on today's list: people who find out that a player is running a certain char and immediately set out to destroy that char or hate on them. This one I have unfortunately been guilty of before, though I strive not to be.
Big peeve: Ignoring the documentation when it comes to sexual relationships, because getting ICly laid is apparently more important than playing true to character. Humans with non-humans. Mundanes with known magickers. Southsiders with 'rinthis. Etc., on and on. I hate this so so so so so much. Yes, you CAN make up excuses as to why any of these relationships are "legitimate," but when everyone is finding excuses, it makes the documentation on sexual taboos just laughable. I wish everyone in game would make much more fun of people who openly or obviously cross these lines, or find some other way to punish them.
On the other side of that, I really appreciate characters who apply taboos and express disgust at the thought of having sex with one or more categories of individuals.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on January 08, 2008, 02:11:10 PM
Big peeve: Ignoring the documentation when it comes to sexual relationships, because getting ICly laid is apparently more important than playing true to character. Humans with non-humans. Mundanes with known magickers. Southsiders with 'rinthis. Etc., on and on. I hate this so so so so so much. Yes, you CAN make up excuses as to why any of these relationships are "legitimate," but when everyone is finding excuses, it makes the documentation on sexual taboos just laughable. I wish everyone in game would make much more fun of people who openly or obviously cross these lines, or find some other way to punish them.
On the other side of that, I really appreciate characters who apply taboos and express disgust at the thought of having sex with one or more categories of individuals.
I think it's pretty lame when you decide OOC that you know what's going on and blame people for playing badly based on your OOC observations. I'm not sure exactly what sexual documentation you're talking about, but the only documentation that I've seen states that there are merely no taboos on the type of gender that your character is going for.
Before you start screaming that people aren't roleplaying properly... ask yourself this. Where do half-elves come from? Do some characters like slumming it? What could their OTHER motivations be for wanting to have a tryst like that? Not every half-elf comes from a rape, and some high and mighty Noble Ladies might only be able to get their rocks off when they feel like they are doing something exceptionally dirty, although I'm sure they wouldn't want to get caught being under a dwarf all of the time.
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be social repercussions for your dalliances outside of social caste or race. I'm just saying that you can't assume that every "player" is only interested in playing out sex with any other willing warm body because it OOC'ly fulfills them. You can't call players out for being BAD roleplayers when you don't even have a clue yourself what might make them tic.
Also, the documentation often outlines the "norm" about what common people expect and do. This does not mean that you have to color in the lines always and that you get punished for not. In fact, I think that some of the most fun characters can be the ones that push on the boundaries of what is allowed or not in society and the consequences be damned. As long as your character has good, solid reasons for doing the things that they want to do, nobody is in the wrong. I typically want to see players that distinguish themselves greatly from your average commoner. None of us want to log in and play boring roles. Players are here to claim a persona that does not belong in the vnpc population.
So I guess that's my roleplaying pet peeve. When other players decide they know more about your character than you do and condemn you OOC'ly for it.
But if everyone is the exception to the rule, we're not really playing by the docs, now are we? We may all have flawless motives and beautifully developed characters, but if they're not Zalanthan than we're doing something wrong.
I think it comes down to a community problem, not an individual problem. You're not a bad rper for ignoring *whatever rp guideline* but we also need to be willing to step up to the plate more often than note and play the norm. Exceptions should be just that, exceptions, and they stop being noteworthy when everyone is playing them.
That said, social mobility in the game is kind of cool. It's certainly possible, but I've seen more stigma regarding magickers/rinthers/etc than some posts here would lead you to believe exist. It's light, but present. Not to say there couldn't always be more, but I'd strongly encourage people to hate on "those other guys" a bit more, it's fun.
I suppose my peeve is people always wanting to be the exception to the rules, and not willing to play the typical Zalanthan.
Last I checked, inappropriate cross-class romances were not the majority compared to condoned relationships.
Granted, the proportions may not be perfectly in line with how they realistically would be, but if the whole game was like that we'd only have like 1/3rd of a magicker PC, 1/20th of a noble, and a toenail clipping from a sorcerer.
PCs are, on average, exceptional in some way or another.
Also cross-class romances make for incredible mundane plots and drama.
I suppose I should add a caveat: PCs may be exceptional, but it is bad when you start ignoring/denying that fact. Just because you've heard of 3 PCs that slept with elves doesn't mean there's a city-wide epidemic of necker-lovin'. Just because of the six PCs in the bar three are magickers, doesn't mean that 50% of the population is also magickers. Most importantly, neither of those observations should lead any PC to think that kanking a sharp or being a gemmer is in any way more acceptable.
I don't think "playing the exception" is a big deal or something overly common. But what I can see as a total peeve is if the people around that exception, and the exception itself, don't recognize ICly that it IS an exception and RP it appropriately.
Example, that elf/human romance.
Elves aren't humans with pointy ears, and humans aren't short elves. They're not both humans, one asian the other aborigine. They're not different "races" like we have in real life. They're more like different species, like an orangutang to a chimpanzee. The idea of the two getting together sexually should be considered something worth sneering about. Or snickering. But an elf and a human who are romantically involved would DEFINITELY not flaunt it in public, because that kind of thing SHOULD be shameful. If an elf and a human did actually get the balls up to get smoochy or huggy in public, they should -expect- anyone around to sneer, smirk, snort, cajole, taunt, tease, and otherwise make their lives miserable for displaying such disgusting behavior in public.
So if an elven and human pairing are around and displaying affection for each other in public, they (and their players) shouldn't be surprised at all if they're shunned. And, other people should be shunning them, at least publically.
I never said that anything should be "ignored". My argument was not to "ignore" the documentation.
My argument is that a PC is a multifaceted organism with their own hopes, desires, and wants, and that might not be exactly 100% congruous to what is socially acceptable.
I'm not arguing that other PC's should react and treat PC's that break the unwritten rules of caste of race in a better light.
My argument is that you cannot say someone is "ignoring" IC standards by choosing to sleep with elves or magickers, or even suggest that those that do are doing something "apparently more important than playing true to character."
And not everyone is an exception to EVERY rule, but I would hope that some quirk of your character would make them more interesting than your average Joe vnpc. If you really want to play a guy that works in a bakery but isn't very skilled at making bread and never will be, so their only job is to haul inix dung from the stables to the cooking fire, where you will never pick up a blade or never use a real coded skill or have an interesting conversation with someone, by all means go ahead. But if you want the rest of the mud to play exactly that as well, I don't think very many of us all are going to have a lot of fun.
Quote from: Marauder Moe on January 08, 2008, 04:16:12 PM
I suppose I should add a caveat: PCs may be exceptional, but it is bad when you start ignoring/denying that fact. Just because you've heard of 3 PCs that slept with elves doesn't mean there's a city-wide epidemic of necker-lovin'. Just because of the six PCs in the bar three are magickers, doesn't mean that 50% of the population is also magickers. Most importantly, neither of those observations should lead any PC to think that kanking a sharp or being a gemmer is in any way more acceptable.
This is a tangent, but I agree with what you're saying. You do have to be fairly flexible for the game to be playable. The best way to I can see to make that work without disrupting the world, is that when you play the exception, be aware of it and act appropriately. I realize that the majority of pcs are going to be exceptional in some way and that people just want to have fun, so that's fine. Within reason, and as long as they remain
aware that they represent a deviation and rp it accordingly, and expect the virtual world to likewise react accordingly.
Take guilty glances around when you talk to that magicker at the bar, sneak off for midnight trysts with your elf lover instead of humping them on the Gaj bar. You get the idea. Again, not saying it's bad if you want to play a character that's shameless about all those things, but try to be aware of the virtual world and social taboos.
Face it, LittleLostThief, you're a nekker lover. :-*
Well you know what I say... a breed for every hole.
While I agree with what's been said is the problem with guild sniffing, I think that there are benefits. If you're not really sure where you're going with your pc and are willing to be shaped by your employer then this applies less, but if you know exactly who your pc is, you want someone who will let your pc be who they are. So, if someone doesn't guild-sniff they may be the guy for you. Or if they're going to let you never use a coded skill and are thrilled when you say you have a real talent for plastering cracks in walls, and have spent your time up till now doing that, SCORE! Maybe you say you like to play hide and seek and they see possibilities. It's good. If they ask questions and don't get the answers they want it frees you up for to work for someone who won't have you spending every waking moment training for a skill you'll never have.
I think the people most rampantly against about guild sniffing are the ones most terrified of abuse in the game in general. Sometimes, you just have to trust other players. Seriously. Most of us really just want to know if you can help us or not.
Quote from: gim... because getting ICly laid is apparently more important than playing true to character
getting laid is more important than anything else
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on January 08, 2008, 07:38:47 PM
I think the people most rampantly against about guild sniffing are the ones most terrified of abuse in the game in general. Sometimes, you just have to trust other players. Seriously. Most of us really just want to know if you can help us or not.
:nod: