Quote from: Nyr on April 30, 2013, 07:23:07 PM
As for a topic about what almost turned off players about the game--sure, that might help!
Okay, this is a tough question because, knowing the GDB (that's this board, new folks) and the Internet, negative feedback has a way of getting out of hand. So, please, some rules for this thread:
- The purpose of this thread is to gather information on things about ArmageddonMUD that limit player retention.
- Feedback only. No debating.
- No discussions of the code (per usual GDB rules)
- This is only a discussion of your experiences WHEN YOU WERE A NEW PLAYER
- If you are a new player, please remember not to post character or code specifics. Keep it vague. Very vague.
- The purpose of this thread is NOT venting.
If you are a new player and are experiencing frustration, please contact a helper by going to armageddon.org (http://www.armageddon.org/) and clicking on
Get Live Help!. Like the name says, the helpers will be happy to help!
No colorful text everywhere. Other MUDs really make that seem like the bees knees.
Also, negative reactions to my character for the stupid mistakes I'd put him through, because I was a noob. They always felt somewhat personal to me.
Truthfully? The dreaded quote "Find out IC". Really angered me at first, because it seemed like such a lazy, elitist way of telling me I wasn't part of the clique. Took me awhile to realize the purpose of such zealous guarding of secrets - to increase the mystery and fun and ultimately, prevent people from getting bored by knowing too much, too fast without the journey of discovery.
I had no idea what to do or where to start getting involved.
I was snapped up by PCs who recruited my clueless self, and showed me the ropes. 10+ years later, here I am.
I think interaction is one of the most important things we can give to new players.
Broke my own rule. nm
Being talked into joining the Byn as a merchant.
Quote from: Delirium on April 30, 2013, 07:54:03 PM
I had no idea what to do or where to start getting involved.
I think that what almost turned me off. Or it was just plain old boredom that I get from every single game that I join and play, but funny I stuck to ArmMUD after a month of a break. Maybe the being creative sense of me made me to come back.
The application process was both intriguing (as it told me you had to be srs) but was also a turn off to start.
The fact I had to read a book before I played (I gave up when I started. Began playing instead and sort of back-tracked the docs as I progressed).
Learning that many of the clans were closed and no longer playable (and no more HRPTs).
For me (when I came back), it was the transition from other MUDs. I tried to pickpocket in the bazaar with a new character. SQUISH.
Then I tried to skill up in the Labyrinth. SQUISH.
Then I took a break for a good long while.
EDIT to add:
When I cam back, the GDB almost drove me away with its elitism. I did something stupid in game, and some player who saw it mocked me for ignoring the virtual world on the GDB. It turned into a GDB grudge match. Even though I continued to play, I stayed off the GDB a long while...and I was a returning player. A new player would likely have been gone.
Quote from: Delirium on April 30, 2013, 07:54:03 PM
I had no idea what to do or where to start getting involved.
I was snapped up by PCs who recruited my clueless self, and showed me the ropes. 10+ years later, here I am.
I think interaction is one of the most important things we can give to new players.
Agreed. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for pissing off a Borsail noble 10 years ago.
Quote from: Nyr on April 30, 2013, 08:09:17 PM
Quote from: Delirium on April 30, 2013, 07:54:03 PM
I had no idea what to do or where to start getting involved.
I was snapped up by PCs who recruited my clueless self, and showed me the ropes. 10+ years later, here I am.
I think interaction is one of the most important things we can give to new players.
Agreed. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for pissing off a Borsail noble 10 years ago.
That being said about my merchant. I then rejoined as a warrior, and had the time of my life over like...4-5 guys?
Lt. Raul is the reason I stayed, hands down.
Quote from: Dakota on April 30, 2013, 08:06:54 PM
The application process was both intriguing (as it told me you had to be srs) but was also a turn off to start.
The fact I had to read a book before I played (I gave up when I started. Began playing instead and sort of back-tracked the docs as I progressed).
Maybe this could be alleviated by having the examples of some PCs, or REALLY SHORT writeups of what one PC did in their life (a mini bio or something)
Player limit.
Intense lag.
Saturday downtimes.
Fortunately, all of those have been fixed.
Quote from: Riev on April 30, 2013, 08:14:03 PM
Quote from: Dakota on April 30, 2013, 08:06:54 PM
The application process was both intriguing (as it told me you had to be srs) but was also a turn off to start.
The fact I had to read a book before I played (I gave up when I started. Began playing instead and sort of back-tracked the docs as I progressed).
Maybe this could be alleviated by having the examples of some PCs, or REALLY SHORT writeups of what one PC did in their life (a mini bio or something)
It has. See other topic for the links.
I am new (less than a year) So ..Uh.. I'll... try to do this and then duck and run away.
1. Um, firstly, one thing that almost turned me off is the fact that I feel like just writing things like this are going to be received with a whole lot of GDB slaps in the face ...e.g. "You just need to look harder" or "I haven't seen anything you've mentioned and utterly disagree with your whole statement" or "Then -be the change- or don't complain" or some other thing that makes me feel like I maybe shouldn't have expressed an opinion about it although I tried to write it as neutrally as possible...
2. Secondly, Reading about the game and then getting into it and slowly realizing that all the big plots from years past seem to be done possibly (don't hit me! I'm sorry I was pumped about elf wars and occupations and exploding cities. It sounded bad ass.)
3. Thirdly, trying to make my own or find the ones that might be happening, and then not being able to figure out how to do that, asking about it, and still not having any clue how to do it, or if I was asking wrong, or doing something wrong, or taking the wrong steps even though I swear to God I read the docs over and over sometimes and spend time IC trying to learn stuff about past player accomplishments, >forage GDB information, etc.
4. Fouthly, each time it feels like I hit a wall either in understanding what's going on, how to deal with it, receive counter-productive or unconstructive feedback from, well, anyplace, no specifics mentioned. Granted, I'm guilty of GDB rage too. I try not to be, but by God, sometimes it feels like I'm using it to vent frustrations I don't know how else to vent. Heck, when I first started I'm guilty of blowing a gasket over something really not all that big a deal in retrospect over the request tool. I get emotional. It's fair to say everybody does. But it does kill off ambition to try when you feel like OOC stuff is as gritty, snarky and difficult as IC stuff and like trying to raise a point or talk about may or may not get you spanked....
Other than the above, when I -do- stumble into something (shorter term mini-plots or building on something I have been working on) or running into great players (which a lot of you guys are) and having some stellar, white-knuckle, hair-pulling, ROFL RP sessions, or when I do get constructive feedback, conversations, help or suggestions that make me feel like learning and trying to put into the gameworld and have fun are positive things. That stuff makes me stay. Because it is fun, when it's not frustrating as hell.
No I swear I'm not trying to be like, STAFF SUCKS OMFG STFU THE GDB IS FULL OF TOOLS I HATE YOU GUYS YOUR MOM TEABAG SHITCOCK.
So pleeeeease don't read it like that >.>
I have had lots of good experiences. THAT IS WHY I STAYED. But I've had some bad ones too. It's those things that make me slouch at my keyboard and go.. :(
-No color, reading pure white text felt very difficult on my eyes when I was use to shadows of isildur and atonement coloring sdesc purple and items green so you could easily keep track of things.
-Guild-based skill system rather than picking 4-8 skills out of a list. Not a good amount of customization and you get skills you don't want.
-Extreme lack of simplified Lore. I had to play my first character like a dense idiot when people would say something I should obviously know.
-No way of realizing that the game was popular. I wanted a guest lounge I could pop into and type 'who'. If I had known there was 50-80 players playing this game then I would have started a while ago. I heard Armageddon was dead by word of mouth.
Ps: I am absolutely addicted to Armageddon despite these flaws.
The GDB.
When I first joined, it was an RL friend that brought me into the game, and I naturally joined the same clan he was in. When he was around, things were great, but when he wasn't, no one wanted to talk to me and I had no one to explain what was going on.
After that char, and getting separated from my friend, I had a couple of false starts before I finally got it. And, in the end, it was being part of a clan with leaders who were willing to show me what to do (even when they were yelling at my char for being an idiot) that made me stick.
Quote from: James de Monet on April 30, 2013, 08:44:38 PM
When I first joined, it was an RL friend that brought me into the game, and I naturally joined the same clan he was in. When he was around, things were great, but when he wasn't, no one wanted to talk to me and I had no one to explain what was going on.
After that char, and getting separated from my friend, I had a couple of false starts before I finally got it. And, in the end, it was being part of a clan with leaders who were willing to show me what to do (even when they were yelling at my char for being an idiot) that made me stick.
That happened to me. The RL friend was the reason that I was on, but alas, he quit about two more PC's. I think he said that he got to attached to them and after their deaths, yeah. Plus, he was antisocial in real life, if that makes a difference.
Quote from: greasygemo on April 30, 2013, 08:37:01 PM
2. Secondly, Reading about the game and then getting into it and slowly realizing that all the big plots from years past seem to be done possibly (don't hit me! I'm sorry I was pumped about elf wars and occupations and exploding cities. It sounded bad ass.)
Yeah. We all want more of these. I remember my last few HRPT's, and I miss the white knuckle excitement.
There are small plots, and the best way to find them, I have seen, is to make yourself very useful to nobles. They usualy have schemes upon schemes.
The whole "player driven plots" sandbox thing is still kinda new to us all I think. But there are things out there, they just aren't easily perceptable. I hope this isn't the kind of answer you hate though. I'm trying to give you actual, constructive feedback. Nobles always seem the best place for fun plots, for me, personally.
Forgive the offtopicness but:
Staff are back to guiding and nurturing plots now. Sort of a blend between what it was before, and what it was supposed to be afterwards, with player driven plots. At least that's what I got out of that "april fools thread"
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on April 30, 2013, 09:12:12 PM
Forgive the offtopicness but:
Staff are back to guiding and nurturing plots now. Sort of a blend between what it was before, and what it was supposed to be afterwards, with player driven plots. At least that's what I got out of that "april fools thread"
I sort of got that? But I'm not 100% Either way, I know it was mentioned there are HRPT's in the works, but it depends completely on player actions.
I've not run into it yet, still loving the game.
1. Frustration with the code. Luckily, fellow players and staffers were/are infinitely patient with me and really nice about it. Shoot, I STILL have my stupid mounts wander off on me.
2. I thought all the text was overwhelming as well as I am an extremely visual person. When I play, I have to have it split screen with a makeshift map on the other side as reference. Switching to MUSHclient and using Agent 137's infobar (http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,34979.0.html)and armandhammer's color triggers (http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,44134.0.html) helped a ton in that regard.
Nyr got me to rage and take a year off once ... :P
The first time I played, back in '98 or '99, I had only played less serious MUDs, like DragonRealms, GuildWars, Faerun, etc., and they all used names instead of sdescs. The first time I played Armageddon, there was so much idling and non-interaction in the Sanctuary, that I didn't realize any of them were PCs. So I wandered around Tuluk for a couple hours, and quit. Didn't come back for awhile.
For a long time, I perceived that Armageddon was full of elitist buttholes. Not sure how I got that impression, probably from the GDB.
I actually was turned off this game the first time I tried it in 2002. My first character (whose name I can't even remember) followed someone into the rinth and was killed. This wasn't what turned me off, though. What turned me off was being so incredibly confused by the complicated commands and opaque (at the time) documentation that the idea of creating another character was discouraging to me. Speaking to other characters was like trying to speak another language. What's a Barani?
Obviously, I didn't stay discouraged forever - just three years or so. I came back to Armageddon in 2005 for another attempt. Why'd I stay that time? A player noticed I was new and took me aside to help me out, teaching me basic commands via OOC. I never forgot that - I never would have stuck with it if I hadn't been helped. It's the reason I became a helper later on. Taking a few minutes to help a new player could be the difference between them being too confused to make a new character and them sticking around for years.
The movement delays between the rooms. At first I thought it was lag, but the friend that recruited me explained it was intentional. I got used to it eventually.
Quote from: LauraMars on April 30, 2013, 10:27:04 PM
Why'd I stay that time? A player noticed I was new and took me aside to help me out, teaching me basic commands via OOC. I never forgot that - I never would have stuck with it if I hadn't been helped. It's the reason I became a helper later on. Taking a few minutes to help a new player could be the difference between them being too confused to make a new character and them sticking around for years.
LauraMars was this person for me :)
Character app rejections, time taken for character app acceptances... Honestly drives me nuts, though it's my fault for not writing descs and backgrounds and such properly, I just want to throw my character out there, then figure out what he is...
Hate waiting a day to see if I got accepted, but I can see how it's much better than seeing superheroes wandering the streets in capes.
It frustrates me to no end when I feel like I'm already being punished by losing my character, then feel like I'm being punished further by not being able to play again for another day. Imagine there's a really good reason behind that, but it makes me want to punch something, because what the hell else am I going to do?
Still, I can see all kinds of problems arising from the process being sped along, even with a very limited amount of time spent playing the game and next to no RP experience beforehand.
Honestly, the rate at which character applications are processed are fucking incredible in comparison to when I first started playing back in '06 where you had a 1-2 day wait. Now? Shit, give it less than several hours and you're good to go. We have awesome, dedicated Staff to thank for that.
Quote from: Gunnerblaster on April 30, 2013, 11:26:44 PM
Honestly, the rate at which character applications are processed are fucking incredible in comparison to when I first started playing back in '06 where you had a 1-2 day wait. Now? Shit, give it less than several hours and you're good to go. We have awesome, dedicated Staff to thank for that.
Agreed. I remember those waits. Now if my guy isn't aproved in like 7 hours I'm pacing! LOL.
Quote from: Fujikoma on April 30, 2013, 11:14:23 PM
Character app rejections, time taken for character app acceptances... Honestly drives me nuts, though it's my fault for not writing descs and backgrounds and such properly, I just want to throw my character out there, then figure out what he is...
Hate waiting a day to see if I got accepted, but I can see how it's much better than seeing superheroes wandering the streets in capes.
I first started playing Arm in 1996. I was in high school and I was pretty well hooked and played as much as I could on my old dial up modem (get off my lawn! *cough wheeze*). I ended up dieing just before winter break and put in a character application.
It was approved the day before the end of winter break.
On topic now, I've taken a few several year long breaks from this game since I started and most all of them are precipitated by the sense that there's nothing going on and I'm not involved in anything.
There was one exception though. Back in '97 the policy on acceptable posts on the Message Boards were somewhat more lax, and internet etiquette in general was equally lax. There was an IMM that got the bright idea of posting an amusing parody explaining staff policy on multi-accounting. His bright idea was to make a 'humorous' parallel to the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy in the military (you can multi-account, just don't do it so brazenly we catch you). This post ended up being a two page long slur against homosexuals, capping the entire 'joke' with the statement "and don't do, because it's gross."
I get a good long laugh every time I hear people complaining about how insensitive and/or unfair IMMs are being these days.
Hey guys! What almost turned me off, though I've only been here for a weeks were mostly due to my own mistakes and misconceptions....
- I couldn't understand ('cause of past games) why I couldn't spam craft or steal everything in sight.
- I actually didn't realize that elves, magickers and the like were looked down on, so I'd talk to them all the same, then not understand all the weird looks and hate!
- The first time I logged on was in a downtime, I thought a MUD with only 10 players on would bore me, luckily I logged on a few hours later to see I was wrong.
- Sorry to say it, but what most put me off was reading the GDB, or, most of it I enjoyed reading. But reading the thread about Tuluk made me wonder about the playerbase and whether I wanted to stay. (It was hard to understand most of the arguements as a new player).
That said, I'm still here, and have no plans to leave yet! Every time I die...I think I can roleplay the next even better, me more creative and imaginative within the confines of the game, I have a long way to go yet.
Quote from: zarkov on May 01, 2013, 04:49:14 AM
- Sorry to say it, but what most put me off was reading the GDB, or, most of it I enjoyed reading. But reading the thread about Tuluk made me wonder about the playerbase and whether I wanted to stay. (It was hard to understand most of the arguements as a new player).
I forget where it got written, but there was another newbie once who made a comment on the GDB to the effect of, "Jeez you guys really go at it when you argue! Did you all kill each other's puppies or something?"
Some long time player wrote back, "Worse, we've been killing each other's long lived, cherished characters for years."
;)
I ignore 90 percent of stuff on the GBD. Every topic is essentially people stating their view, with no intention of having it changed no matter what anyone else says. Like the Tuluk thing, everyone talked, then they stopped, and it was like the conversation never mattered.
What almost turned me off? I really wanted to be a magicker at first. A few years later...still hoping for my first karma point. I suppose one day I'll get there, but Karma seems to be allergic to me. I was almost turned off again after a year or so of playing, when my lack of getting Karma made me think I was a terrible RPer or doing something wrong.
As a new player...
* The greatest issue for me was the off-peak-ness. When I logged on, there would be 5 players online...and as a new character, new player, I didn't know what I could do, or how I would do it. I had some kind of a goal for my PC, but I had no idea how to get there. I quit logging in because I had no idea what I was doing. Then, I decided to try again half a year later - got lucky, found a leader PC and joined a clan. Thankfully, we've got a lot more people around nowadays (where there were 5, now there are 30), but I don't see that many leader characters around during early afternoons and other semi-off peak times even now. Someone to give you water, food and the basic information on how the world works. I could do without the food and water, but as a new player I couldn't have gone without someone teaching me how I was supposed to act and where I should go. Just knowing what you were supposed to be doing meant a lot for me staying.
* I might remember this wrong - it's been a while - but the character creation process was kind of annoying iirc. Not the writing-a-character (that was the fun part), but the actual interface.
* Also, the code is hard to grasp when you're new. Was that an emote, or a coded skill? What command did that? Why can't I do that here? Though by the time I needed to use that much code, I was already hooked.
Definitely the lack of a color coded world. Not only is it easier on the eyes, a lot of player use it to keep track of things. that and the amount of time it took for character creation. Otherwise this game is the shit. definitely best mud I've played
Even compared to other people who consider themselves "beginners", my playing time seems like a drop of water in the ocean; but I've learned that to make ambitious plots come to life I have to be patient and think it through, compared to how, when first reading the documentation, my only thoughts were "make a sorcerer and become really powerful!".
I wouldn't say that finding the huge ladder I have to climb to get there was a turn-off, rather it makes me cherish the game and its theme even more, and makes both the characters of my dreams and my lowly Amos the Merchant all the more desirable and interesting!
The only real turn off I see is off-peakness. We need more people from outside the Americas, but I don't know anyone here in Europe who's willing to try -and- stick to a game without colorful 3D graphics and easy point-and-click gameplay. Let alone be willing to role-play properly and get involved in non-linear plots.
Quote from: Ben Arie on May 01, 2013, 08:54:16 AM
Even compared to other people who consider themselves "beginners", my playing time seems like a drop of water in the ocean; but I've learned that to make ambitious plots come to life I have to be patient and think it through, compared to how, when first reading the documentation, my only thoughts were "make a sorcerer and become really powerful!".
I wouldn't say that finding the huge ladder I have to climb to get there was a turn-off, rather it makes me cherish the game and its theme even more, and makes both the characters of my dreams and my lowly Amos the Merchant all the more desirable and interesting!
The only real turn off I see is off-peakness. We need more people from outside the Americas, but I don't know anyone here in Europe who's willing to try -and- stick to a game without colorful 3D graphics and easy point-and-click gameplay. Let alone be willing to role-play properly and get involved in non-linear plots.
Goooooooooood afternoon there.
Sup. We have a decent amount of offpeakers, more than some games have players.
(btw, the proper time to play arm is late night anway)
Stepping out of the Gaj and getting lost in a sandstorm and not remembering which direction I'd come from. Sad but true. No idea what account that was. On the other hand, this may have saved my actual life because I was in school at the time.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on April 30, 2013, 07:50:22 PM
Also, negative reactions to my character for the stupid mistakes I'd put him through, because I was a noob. They always felt somewhat personal to me.
Definitely a "problem" for me, too, but not something I came close to quitting over.
I found out playing a pickpocket as my first PC was probably not a good idea. Still, some noble back in '06 took my PC aside, hired her, and showed my PC how to sweep up sawdust. That was amazing to me at the time. I didn't play that PC again after that session because I wasn't sure what to do with that PC, but I did come back a year later. (That same PC being mugged out in the desert and left to beg for food is what led up to meeting the noble.)
I think the fact that I was still into IRE MUDs at the time is what kept me away originally. I tried to go back there and recreate the RP I saw here. LOL. Yeah.... That didn't work out.
I was turned off by the fact that I could read about the vague mysteries of magick and other races, but I was not able to actually create one. I read about the Karma system and I understood it, but I resented it. I felt like I could learn the lore, the game, and I would be able to properly play one of these many races/guilds that are not(and most still aren't, lol) available to me.
I was lucky to have an awesome experience on my first newbie pickpocket moron character who tried to steal in the middle of whatever city I started in at the time years ago and that made me come back even though I stopped playing for several months after my character died in a hole someplace.
Interaction is the key factor, I think.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on April 30, 2013, 09:12:12 PM
Forgive the offtopicness but:
Staff are back to guiding and nurturing plots now. Sort of a blend between what it was before, and what it was supposed to be afterwards, with player driven plots. At least that's what I got out of that "april fools thread"
Yes RogueGunslinger. Yes we are.
I posted it before, and I'm willing to derail this thread to post it again. GET PLAYING. Join organizations. Do things. Things will happen. But realize. If you want the BIG STUFF then you need to be where the big hitters are.
Quote from: Scarecrow on May 01, 2013, 06:06:50 AM
I ignore 90 percent of stuff on the GBD. Every topic is essentially people stating their view, with no intention of having it changed no matter what anyone else says. Like the Tuluk thing, everyone talked, then they stopped, and it was like the conversation never mattered.
What almost turned me off? I really wanted to be a magicker at first. A few years later...still hoping for my first karma point. I suppose one day I'll get there, but Karma seems to be allergic to me. I was almost turned off again after a year or so of playing, when my lack of getting Karma made me think I was a terrible RPer or doing something wrong.
Do you send in character reports?
Quote from: Scarecrow on May 01, 2013, 06:06:50 AM
What almost turned me off? I really wanted to be a magicker at first. A few years later...still hoping for my first karma point. I suppose one day I'll get there, but Karma seems to be allergic to me. I was almost turned off again after a year or so of playing, when my lack of getting Karma made me think I was a terrible RPer or doing something wrong.
I played this game for 17 years on and off and never got a karma point (though sometimes I would forget my account name and have to make a new one).
Then I asked for some karma and got it.
I entered the game and asked a tavern of npcs for a job.
I waited five minutes and left, right into a blinding sandstorm and apparently without direction sense if I remember correctly. Stumbled around. Its funny now looking back.
Somebody I couldn't see came up to me in the storm and expressed their annoyance at the fact that I hadn't waited longer. I didn't know how to 'ooc sorry' and disconnected.
I love desert and ancient Roman-related stuff so I ended up coming back when I remembered this game existed, about two years after that.
I started then with a merchant, a logger type based out of Tuluk. I bought an axe which I thought was for logging but was a weapon, left Tuluk, wielded it, got a tingling spine feeling from a staff, removed the axe. I think I died almost immediately anyway.
There are two things, really, and each sits at its own opposing side of the spectrum, although they do overlap in one significant regard:
1. The karma system in general, and how elusive those karma points are in particular. It is a bit demotivating to play your characters to the hilt and have some experiences that (at least you think) are totally awesome, then, when it inevitably comes time to create a new character because you made a silly and/or awesome mistake, learn that you still have zero karma, and no idea where you went wrong.
2. No clear direction on how to survive. Not in the meaning of not dying to player-driven plots or to angry monsters deciding that you look tasty, but rather in the lack of information on how to make enough coin for your characters to get the necessary food and water and not keel over dead from malnutrition after a couple weeks. Sure the Byn will provide, but you can't play all your characters there. And outside that group, all my characters' survival needs have been provided by freak chance encounters that I would most certainly not expect to be, in any real sense, repeatable.
Clearly these two are, to some extent, diametrically opposed, but (as I mentioned before) they overlap in that each is, in a sense, a lack of direction. And no, I still haven't found answers to these quandaries. :)
Quote from: Fable on May 01, 2013, 05:23:09 PM
There are two things, really, and each sits at its own opposing side of the spectrum, although they do overlap in one significant regard:
1. The karma system in general, and how elusive those karma points are in particular. It is a bit demotivating to play your characters to the hilt and have some experiences that (at least you think) are totally awesome, then, when it inevitably comes time to create a new character because you made a silly and/or awesome mistake, learn that you still have zero karma, and no idea where you went wrong.
2. No clear direction on how to survive. Not in the meaning of not dying to player-driven plots or to angry monsters deciding that you look tasty, but rather in the lack of information on how to make enough coin for your characters to get the necessary food and water and not keel over dead from malnutrition after a couple weeks. Sure the Byn will provide, but you can't play all your characters there. And outside that group, all my characters' survival needs have been provided by freak chance encounters that I would most certainly not expect to be, in any real sense, repeatable.
Clearly these two are, to some extent, diametrically opposed, but (as I mentioned before) they overlap in that each is, in a sense, a lack of direction. And no, I still haven't found answers to these quandaries. :)
Let me try to help you with number one, at least. You haven't made a mistake. Not getting karma doesn't mean you're doing things wrong, it just means you're not doing all of the right things. Most of those things usually involve character reports, and special apping for karma restrictions higher than what you have, and asking for your account notes/karma review, and time. When you ask for your account notes they review your situation and determine whether you should have more or not. IF you never ask for your notes who's to say staff don't always simply overlook you. There are a lot of players to keep track of, after all.
Here are the things they look for specifically when giving out Karma stolen from Taven here (http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,41933.msg633663.html#msg633663): Karma is awarded on a mix of the following categories:
Longevity - This is how long you've been playing the game, without doing something bad. If you've been playing ages, you get points!
Good communication - This is being clear and polite when communicating with staff, and making an effort to do so as needed or regularly
Ability to roleplay - This is more then just emoting, but is taking the game world into account. It may also mean playing in more then one location, and having a variety of character types (IE, not all your characters have the same personality and guild)
Proven understanding of magick and its place in the game world - You do NOT need to play a magicker for this. This means rather that you understand how magick is viewed in society. You don't go around treating gemmers like normal people for no reason, and you don't talk about how awesome magick is in Tuluk (more complex, but you get the basic idea)
Proven understanding of cultural and racial structures - This could be about understanding how Tuluk is subtle, or how elves and breeds are perceived in the world. It might be also playing a good character of a specific race or in a specific culture (for example, an elf doing tests of trust, etc)
Contributes to the game - This could be a variety of things. Does your character add to the game, either by making plots or by providing people with interesting RP? Are you as a player contributing (for example when staff has calls for submissions)? That sort of thing.
Leadership - This is for leadership in general, not clan leadership. If you are a low level nobody but plan a lot of events for your clan, or an indie who works to lead and coordinate, that would count
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on May 01, 2013, 05:45:20 PM
Most of those things usually involve character reports
Thanks for the pointers you provided; most helpful! I suppose in that vein I'll ask a follow-up question, since I figure there is a decent chance that it'll be on many a new player's mind just as it is currently on mine -
I'm not exactly sure what to do about character reports. While I completely understand the intent and why they are useful for established characters or ones in important roles, the issue that I face is that, with my characters so far, I don't actually know what to write. My characters are as common as commoners can be, and are thus not involved in any big plots (alas!), nor are they, by any stretch of a feverish imagination, the major movers-and-shakers in the game world. So from that perspective, I wouldn't have much to put into a weekly character report other than a single line: "Yup, another week as a commoner trying to eke out survival." Which means that, in practice, I don't actually send them in.
Am I doing the right thing? The wrong thing? The crazy thing, maybe? :D
I was turned off by:
- Lack of colour. I cannot play a game without colour because I cannot make sense of what I'm reading at the speed MUDs happen. I coloured it with triggers.
- Large amount of documentation can be daunting. I love it now though.
- I don't like some of the game mechanics or rough edges.
It took me 4 tries to get into Arm proper I think. My account is circa 2005 but my actual proper play only started a couple of years ago.
Quote from: Case on May 01, 2013, 06:16:37 PMLarge amount of documentation can be daunting. I love it now though.
Quote from: Fable on May 01, 2013, 06:10:43 PM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on May 01, 2013, 05:45:20 PM
Most of those things usually involve character reports
Thanks for the pointers you provided; most helpful! I suppose in that vein I'll ask a follow-up question, since I figure there is a decent chance that it'll be on many a new player's mind just as it is currently on mine -
I'm not exactly sure what to do about character reports. While I completely understand the intent and why they are useful for established characters or ones in important roles, the issue that I face is that, with my characters so far, I don't actually know what to write. My characters are as common as commoners can be, and are thus not involved in any big plots (alas!), nor are they, by any stretch of a feverish imagination, the major movers-and-shakers in the game world. So from that perspective, I wouldn't have much to put into a weekly character report other than a single line: "Yup, another week as a commoner trying to eke out survival." Which means that, in practice, I don't actually send them in.
Am I doing the right thing? The wrong thing? The crazy thing, maybe? :D
Mine have always been short and to the point. Pretty much the world is your oyster as far as how simple or complex you make these. As long as you're actively trying to communicate with staff, and let them know what you're doing, who you're interacting with, what your goals are, then it will be fine, and a step ahead of quite a few players.
You don't have to e involved in lots of interesting things, or killing people or anything, you just need to be interacting with others. Most of mine have been simply me talking about what I want to do with my pc, and how I plan to go about doing that. What new things I've tried since the last report.
Quote from: Fable on May 01, 2013, 06:10:43 PM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on May 01, 2013, 05:45:20 PM
Most of those things usually involve character reports
Thanks for the pointers you provided; most helpful! I suppose in that vein I'll ask a follow-up question, since I figure there is a decent chance that it'll be on many a new player's mind just as it is currently on mine -
I'm not exactly sure what to do about character reports. While I completely understand the intent and why they are useful for established characters or ones in important roles, the issue that I face is that, with my characters so far, I don't actually know what to write. My characters are as common as commoners can be, and are thus not involved in any big plots (alas!), nor are they, by any stretch of a feverish imagination, the major movers-and-shakers in the game world. So from that perspective, I wouldn't have much to put into a weekly character report other than a single line: "Yup, another week as a commoner trying to eke out survival." Which means that, in practice, I don't actually send them in.
Am I doing the right thing? The wrong thing? The crazy thing, maybe? :D
I'd recommend sending in character reports even if you don't feel your PC has done all that much. They've always helped me evaluate where my character's head is at and possible ideas for plot/relationship/whatever progression, besides it can never hurt to remind staffers that you exist from time to time, especially when playing Joe Commoner.
Quote from: One of the first character reports I ever sent in.What's going on in his life / head:
[My PC] is starting to toughen up a little, both physically and emotionally.
He has recently sustained several minor injuries whilst sparring, mostly due to his growing (mostly misplaced) sense of confidence in battle.
He has been throwing himself into his training, leaving him little time to dwell on thoughts of his mother. He feels guilty for this from time to time.
Owes [Byn Sergeant] a large in return for some armor.
Took a disliking to [fellow Runner] and a small rivalry ensued. Was pleased when said character was kicked out for [reasons].
Has hardly seen [Byn Trooper] and despite disliking him, has decided against any form of active revenge (although he would still be less inclined to risk himself on the man's behalf than otherwise)
Is pleased with his new sword, although vaguely regrets trading in his bow for it.
Goals:
Find some way of impressing [Byn Sergeant].
Try and persuade [Byn Sergeant] to take him out east some time (Where he believes his mother to be)
Raise money to pay off his debt.
Probably not the most fascinating read, but hopefully that'll give you an idea of what you could include when playing a nobody.
attempt 1: rolled in nak, was PKed in hours, then killed by spiders, then too afraid or busy to bother learning how not to die and took a break.
attempt 2: Came back 4 years later, this time tried to make a female PC for the hell of it, in Tuluk, which sounded different from the rugged Allanak stuff I had tried before. I read some docs and jumped in with my first warrens commoner. My concept was rugged and not that attractive, yet was getting hit on a lot. Regretted choosing female and then quit again.
attempt 3: Came back 3 years after that, and saw to my pleasure that my PC was an old bitch now, and went with it. was VERY pleased with everyone's response to her at this coded age (same sdesc, same mdesc). No requests for sex. People were helping me with my RP by suggesting to me what it might have been like to get old with this PC. I filled in the backstory as I talked to people. Met some of you, then. Am I allowed to name names of dead PCs? In any case, you guys all helped to get me hooked. Special thanks to those willing to give me a "baby's first hunt" tutorial and the Legions for reminding me of the brutality that might have been lost. After she was killed by a Kryl, I vowed to keep trying without such long breaks in between because I wanted to keep tabs on this world. I think I had missed the great recent events in Tuluk and Nak, and wanted not to miss those either. So, I stuck with it.
Quote from: Twilight on April 30, 2013, 08:28:03 PM
Saturday downtimes.
The only thing that was a negative and that's long gone.
Oh, some of the negative immortal interaction - but most, if not all, of that is gone now.
I remember coming to the game for the first time in ~2005. I was so daunted by the dizzying amount of application stuff and documentation that I quit in the middle of my apparently.
When I finally came back in 2009, I registered on the GDB and didn't post for approximately two weeks because the boards seemed a little cliquey and mean-spirited. It's less like that today, but if someone doesn't know who is trolling and who is sincere they could easily draw the same conclusion.
So that's where the meanness came from! It's cool though.
Well, since I'm a few weeks new... it's actually other new characters.
Quote from: PriestlySiren on May 01, 2013, 08:52:08 PM
Well, since I'm a few weeks new... it's actually other new characters.
lol :D
Did I just win this thread then....?
Quote from: OP on May 04, 2013, 08:07:46 AM
What almost turned you off the game WHEN YOU WERE NEW
Fug I died again :DDD
Quote from: OP on May 04, 2013, 08:07:46 AM
What almost turned you off the game WHEN YOU WERE NEW
A decade ago today, I spent hours reading docs and writing up the character's background, desc, and sdesc. Submitted my application and went to bed.
The next day, I spent hours trying to figure out how to navigate
Luirs and wasting money on the wrong gear. Luckily, a dusty lady traveler named Olin guided my character to Tuluk. There I quit for the night.
The day after, my character went out to explore the forest, made a friend, did a little useless tracking, and then a vicious tembo arrived. The end.
...Took me 2 years to forget what a pain in the ass this game was.
My story is very similar to LauraMars'. I started mudding in '04 at some game called Valheru but I always researched other muds after I wanted something more. Eventually found SoI to learn about rp and I saw Armageddon but after reading the site, I thought it was some crazy mud lol but I eventually made an account, created a character, logged in and saw no color! Omg!! Lol anyway, I ended up in AoD after some people saw me and everyone asking if I worked for anyone. I didnt stick with the game for long though.. Learning curve, lack of color and that feeling of being totally lost deterred me, so I didnt log in, even forgot the mud until a rl year later or so later, it popped up and I wasn't feeling SoI anymore so I decided to try Arm again.
I came back, stuck in a few days but died in the gaj because a superior said to brawl and me not knowing the "hit" command, used kill and died but I was determined by then to come back and keep trying. I met Cutthroat and was scooped up, taught things, had a blast and I'm still here.
Thanks Cutthroat!!
Quote from: Kassindra on May 04, 2013, 11:05:15 AM
Thanks Cutthroat!!
:D
I can't really remember anything that repelled me from the game at first. My mudding experience went from H&S muds, to IRE muds, to RPIs. So Arm was basically the game I was looking for. I think the learning curve was a bit steep, but that's okay. I felt compelled to try and play sneaky criminal types because that was the kind of character I like to play in RPGs, but found it difficult in Arm as a newbie. It was when I started settling for other roles a few months into the game that I became drawn into it more and more.
Quote from: Agent_137 on May 04, 2013, 10:30:41 AM
The next day, I spent hours trying to figure out how to navigate Luirs and wasting money on the wrong gear. Luckily, a dusty lady traveler named Olin guided my character to Tuluk. There I quit for the night.
Ohhhhmygod Luirs exploded my brain when I first went there. I went in a neat circle for like, two hours at least before I figured out how to get back to the gate -_-'
I didn't have a single bad moment when I was a newbie. I picked this game up right out the gate and swung as hard as I took. It was later on, actually, when I became a bit more savvy and opinionated, that I began to resent things.
A particular situation of favoritism with a particular staff member and a very limited number of players. One of the players used to boast about it to me in IM (she was one of the people I'd known from other games we both played), and the staff member started telling me of the fun things he would do for players in IM, when his PC was my character's clan boss.
It sounded like a lot of fun to be one of the privileged few, but at the same time it pissed me off because I wasn't one of them - and neither were most people in the game. And because of this one situation, a lot of people were getting the shaft, while the favored few were getting all kinds of perks (promotions, special considerations, their enemies getting the beat-down, plotlines created for their personal entertainment, objects created for them, etc. etc.).
Thankfully, neither player nor staff member are in Arm anymore - it's been several years since that unfortunate situation, and I feel the staff has done a great job at policing itself in this regard.
Quote from: greasygemo on May 04, 2013, 12:00:58 PM
Quote from: Agent_137 on May 04, 2013, 10:30:41 AM
The next day, I spent hours trying to figure out how to navigate Luirs and wasting money on the wrong gear. Luckily, a dusty lady traveler named Olin guided my character to Tuluk. There I quit for the night.
Ohhhhmygod Luirs exploded my brain when I first went there. I went in a neat circle for like, two hours at least before I figured out how to get back to the gate -_-'
+1
After a grueling four days of reading documentation and posing some questions to helpers and reading Mansa's newbie guide, I finally had the gumption to make a character. She was boring because I didn't know what to put in a background, I accidentally joined a clan with no one active in it. So, I stored that character after a while, and made a new character in a new location and decided that I'd have to make sure the clan was active before I joined it.
So really, what turned me off was joining a clan with no one active in it. I felt like I should roll with the first person who offered to hire me. I've since learned to be more discerning.
Burglars... Definitely burglars.
It's not that I'd mind a lot if it was once in a while thing. But when there's a new burglar in town and Tek forbid, if it is off-peak, you simply cannot use apartments. You'll get stolen from again and again and again and sooner or later, there's going to be nothing left in your apartment. You can't have any protection against burglary if you're off-peak. You don't have templar contacts and even if you did, templars would be able to do nothing against an off-peak burglar because y'know.. We do not have off-peak templars and militia. There is simply nothing to do to avoid it.
My attempts to draw maps didn't work out because I didn't realize city interiors were different from city exteriors. Frustrated me greatly - all that lost graph paper.
Quote from: evil_erdlu on May 05, 2013, 09:45:33 AM
Burglars... Definitely burglars.
I rescind my earlier statement. Burglars were infuriating and I couldn't understand why nobody wanted me to kill them, or would help me kill them (yeah it was Tuluk). It seemed impossible to have anything nice and unfair to be forced to put up with it, and it didn't make any sense to me. I do remember almost throwing in the towel over this.
I started playing in 92? 93? Thereabouts. I'd been working with a MUD called Dark Castle as an Implementor and one of the other imps started logging in but going idle for long periods of time. Finally he mentioned he was playing Arm. So Arm was a huge change for me, coming from a Diku with no permadeath or roleplay.
My first character was a halfling (no karma or special roles back then) who ran into Tuluk, scampered around for a bit, then came out and got killed by a copper-skinned dwarf.
Early on, my second character got thrown in the Allanak jail by a staff-inhabited templar and ended up spending two or three RL weeks in jail. I'd log on, emote rats running over my feet for a while, try to contact people over the way, talk to myself, etc., until finally the staff member was around, freed me, and I ran off to Tuluk to die immediately.
The Saturday downtimes were a big turn-off, particularly because people would brag about them. I don't think there was any discussion board when I started playing, although some folks chatted (somewhat illicitly) on the ISCA BBS.
Feeling like there were secret cliques of players that the staff catered to was more than a suspicion then -- they were very overt about it, and you could tell staff characters pretty easily, because the equipment back then was much more limited and they were the only ones with special items. That is one thing that I think Armageddon has really changed, although I'd be the first to admit there have been plenty of hiccups and staff members that had to be reined in over the years. Many of my management skills were fine-tuned on Armageddon, including how to nicely but firmly fire a volunteer.
Quote from: evil_erdlu on May 05, 2013, 09:45:33 AM
Burglars... Definitely burglars.
It's not that I'd mind a lot if it was once in a while thing. But when there's a new burglar in town and Tek forbid, if it is off-peak, you simply cannot use apartments. You'll get stolen from again and again and again and sooner or later, there's going to be nothing left in your apartment. You can't have any protection against burglary if you're off-peak. You don't have templar contacts and even if you did, templars would be able to do nothing against an off-peak burglar because y'know.. We do not have off-peak templars and militia. There is simply nothing to do to avoid it.
I hope now, later in your arm career, you know you can send in a report/question and staff will look into the possible abuse.
As someone that has played an off-peak abusive burglar back in the day ( I didn't know any better, what can I say) I can state with 100% certainty, that it will be figured out and addressed, if the burglar is doing far to much stealing.
I used to blame the theft of all my apartment's belongings on burglars until I realized it was my neighbors who did most the stealing once they realized my door was unlocked >.>
I thought my character's apartment was getting cleared out regularly until I realised that maybe maybe mayyyyybe I should've checked if it was a saveroom.
I just don't use apartments and avoid a ton of problems all together. Who needs expensive belongings and furniture anyways?
Yeah I'm in RGS's camp. If I've got an apartment it's because I'm playing a sponsored role and live in a secure compound.
If I'm a commoner, I live out of my backpack.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on May 05, 2013, 08:02:49 PM
I just don't use apartments and avoid a ton of problems all together. Who needs expensive belongings and furniture anyways?
God knows when I play characters of this mindset, life is easier for me.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on May 05, 2013, 08:02:49 PM
I just don't use apartments and avoid a ton of problems all together. Who needs expensive belongings and furniture anyways?
+1
Started in 2003.
One completely new char of mine was PK'd after being brand-new recruited to a clan and someone killed me for either a) shits and giggles or b) not having newbie Tuluk tattoos. There was zero reasoning to it, and I was really pissed and wrote an angry email. And I think I got a bad account note from complaining about it. Admittedly, I probably wrote a rant email, but I'm a lot less excitable now.
Being unable to emote and use quotations freely at the same time. Still irks me.
say (eyebrows clambering upward) What?
You know what I mean. Freely. You can do it, but have to use a particular sentence structure that I find is often clunky and unwieldy from a prose-quality point of view.
Quote from: MeTekillot on May 05, 2013, 11:32:11 PM
say (eyebrows clambering upward) What?
+1
Quotations?
Solo RP. I just didn't get it. I still don't like it.
Sandstorms in cities at night.
My first Arm role was an extremely long-lived clanned role where, like most combat-oriented clans, your off time was at night.
Imagine my chagrin when every time I tried to leave the barracks to go anywhere in the evening, it was too damn sandy and windy to go anywhere! I was afraid it would be unrealistic RP to just spamwalk to the Gaj by muscle memory, so I refrained from doing it.
Then later on, when my character became sarge, I let people go early enough that they could run off to their evening hideyholes before the perma-sandstorm set in. 8)
Wandering around the enormous, oversized Allanaki bazaar and the roads that border it, and getting lost in sandstorms at night, while not seeing another player anywhere.
It also took me about 4 PCs to figure out I wasn't ready to play in the 'rinth.
Quote from: ShaLeah on May 06, 2013, 03:25:39 AM
Solo RP. I just didn't get it. I still don't like it.
I've never been a fan solo rp. I usually just do it in places where there might be a sneaky sort watching me, or I'm important enough to warrant a mindbender giving a crap about me. Of course at that point it's not really solo rp so much as an unaddressed invitation to rp.
If nobody is around my characters sometimes sit there talking to themselves. Sometimes, though, someone is around and it's kind of embarrassing. Very thankful for whisper self, although, one could still be overheard.
Quote from: Sanvean on May 05, 2013, 06:20:50 PM
ended up spending two or three RL weeks in jail. I'd log on, emote rats running over my feet for a while, try to contact people over the way, talk to myself, etc., until finally the staff member was around
As a noob you spent RL weeks in jail, kept logging in waiting for a staff member, solo RPing all the while? I mean, we all know Sanvean is hardcore, but
damn...
Some people are getting to specific about events here. Even if things occurred more than one real life year ago, they are not necessarily appropriate to talk about.
Before posting anything specific please thing about whether it will reveal any in character information. If there's any doubt, don't post.
Thanks.
I don't post on the forums much, though I feel like I have something to say here.
I was invited by my boyfriend to come play armageddon, while at the time I was currently playing another MUD. I can easily say the transition was -very- difficult. The lack of a detailed map in which you can use to navigate made it hard at first, but I soon got used to it and became accustomed to making my way around Tuluk and Luir's just by exploring. Also, the fact of permanent death on top of the no map thing was at first a deal breaker, I wasn't sure what I could possibly do if I didn't know where I was going, and if I made the wrong turn I would end up being dinner for some creature. Though, I progressed and as I said, got used to it. Great fun when you put all that aside.
When I first joined I took a RL year off because of that submission about Tek killing Steinal. Made me really angry. :-\
Quote from: Inks on May 07, 2013, 04:36:49 AM
When I first joined I took a RL year off because of that submission about Tek killing Steinal. Made me really angry. :-\
The joke one? If you don't mind me asking, why did it make you angry?
Yeah the joke one, because I took it seriously like an idiot at the time :D
Basically before I joined those years ago I had read a lot of things on other boards and such about Templars really abusing coded powers and such out of RP. After my first couple of characters I was getting the hang of the game but had never been to Allanak because of the things I had read about it basically being a few players with god mode messing stuff up for all the non Templars. Not in the good way which I have actually experienced IG since. So I read that and took it seriously. Blah.
The realization the everything I want to try requires three karma and/or a special application, and later the realization that it takes forever to get karma and reading about how easy it is to lose it... Experience is quickly teaching me why these things require special consideration.
Quote from: Fujikoma on May 07, 2013, 11:15:13 AM
The realization the everything I want to try requires three karma and/or a special application, and later the realization that it takes forever to get karma and reading about how easy it is to lose it... Experience is quickly teaching me why these things require special consideration.
This was me too. I REALLY REALLY wanted to play a magicker when I started this game, and was sad when my first two characters didn't get me any karma. My third got me two points, though, and my magicker character was everything I'd hoped it could be and more. Stick with it!
Though I will add that it's actually not easy to lose karma. Barring truly egregious violations of the rules, you'll always get a warning from staff before they start yanking points.
Quote from: Marauder Moe on May 07, 2013, 11:21:30 AM
Quote from: Fujikoma on May 07, 2013, 11:15:13 AM
The realization the everything I want to try requires three karma and/or a special application, and later the realization that it takes forever to get karma and reading about how easy it is to lose it... Experience is quickly teaching me why these things require special consideration.
This was me too. I REALLY REALLY wanted to play a magicker when I started this game, and was sad when my first two characters didn't get me any karma. My third got me two points, though, and my magicker character was everything I'd hoped it could be and more. Stick with it!
Though I will add that it's actually not easy to lose karma. Barring truly egregious violations of the rules, you'll always get a warning from staff before they start yanking points.
Yep, i joined this game specifically for the magick system. And was not disapointed when I finally got to play my Rukkian's. But once you finally get to sit and play what you want to play, you will quickly realize why you needed to wait so long.
My first 'gicker, too, was a lot of fun. Why not just special app one? If you do well they might give you the karma for the role to use later. Waiting for karma to play something you could be playing now, through a special application, seems silly to me.
I always seem to be using my special applications up on something. I've had more accepted than not by far. Just don't try to get to wild with it. Keep it simple. "Why is this a special application?" "Because I don't have the karma to prove I can play it well otherwise."
Oh, I don't feel I'm ready to play a gicker, although that would be fun, but I'd like to wait and maybe play a *censored*. My more immediate interests are to try mundane guild/extended subguild combos, particularly (4 karma, out of range) *censored*, if that's even allowed.
Also, I don't have the patience to wait. I just don't have it. Alas.
Stick with 3 karma range.
Quote from: Fujikoma on May 07, 2013, 04:09:11 PM
Oh, I don't feel I'm ready to play a gicker, although that would be fun, but I'd like to wait and maybe play a *censored*. My more immediate interests are to try mundane guild/extended subguild combos, particularly (4 karma, out of range) *censored*, if that's even allowed.
Also, I don't have the patience to wait. I just don't have it. Alas.
I have always tended towards mundanes entirely. Having RP roles and higher ranking classes is... well, a lot of pressure and obligation. If I don't think I can contribute enough to the role, I won't play it.
As an FYI for new folks that are thinking of special apping for magickers etc. If you have never played a magicker (ie water or stone) and ask to play a 4 karma + magicker we will ask you to try out one of the others first. There's a reason that they are at different karma levels and we prefer people get their feet wet with the 2 karma roles first.
Quote from: Adhira on May 07, 2013, 07:33:59 PM
As an FYI for new folks that are thinking of special apping for magickers etc. If you have never played a magicker (ie water or stone) and ask to play a 4 karma + magicker we will ask you to try out one of the others first. There's a reason that they are at different karma levels and we prefer people get their feet wet with the 2 karma roles first.
feet, wet, 2 karma. haha.
speaking from personal experience, i concur. Any level magicker will ruin the mystery of magick equally, and historically it's pretty easy to get an app 1-2 karma above your level as long as it's well thought out.
I wouldn't quite say "turned off" but when I was new I was extremely frustrated by the lack of available maps of the cities. It frustrated me to no end that the old helpfile maps didn't have important things on them like certain water sellers, the jails, and apartment complexes. Our new maps are so much better! I think it was Rhyden who made them, wasn't it? Thanks Rhyden if it was you!
It annoyed me because I found it easy to roleplay certain aspects of ignorance of the world, but not knowing where basic stuff was located really stretched my suspension of disbelief.
I also really hated a few memorable incidents where people abused the quit command to avoid consequences and stuff, but I took a chill pill when staff assured me that wasn't a common or tolerated pattern of behaviour.
quit ooc fathi was gonna kill me!
Quote from: Adhira on May 07, 2013, 07:33:59 PM
As an FYI for new folks that are thinking of special apping for magickers etc. If you have never played a magicker (ie water or stone) and ask to play a 4 karma + magicker we will ask you to try out one of the others first. There's a reason that they are at different karma levels and we prefer people get their feet wet with the 2 karma roles first.
I hope by 4+ you meant to say >4, not >=4. I never played a mage and have zero interest in any of them apart drovian and nilazi. They're both within my spec app reach and i'm in fact thinking of trying for a drovian. It would suck major balls if I were to be rejected because I never played karma 2 options, both of which I'll probably never play.
Quote from: spicemustflow on May 08, 2013, 02:55:11 PM
Quote from: Adhira on May 07, 2013, 07:33:59 PM
As an FYI for new folks that are thinking of special apping for magickers etc. If you have never played a magicker (ie water or stone) and ask to play a 4 karma + magicker we will ask you to try out one of the others first. There's a reason that they are at different karma levels and we prefer people get their feet wet with the 2 karma roles first.
I hope by 4+ you meant to say >4, not >=4. I never played a mage and have zero interest in any of them apart drovian and nilazi. They're both within my spec app reach and i'm in fact thinking of trying for a drovian. It would suck major balls if I were to be rejected because I never played karma 2 options, both of which I'll probably never play.
I felt the same way. I realize it was a mistake. I should have started with something capable of magey interaction. Your mileage may vary.
Quote from: Barzalene on May 08, 2013, 03:03:26 PM
Quote from: spicemustflow on May 08, 2013, 02:55:11 PM
Quote from: Adhira on May 07, 2013, 07:33:59 PM
As an FYI for new folks that are thinking of special apping for magickers etc. If you have never played a magicker (ie water or stone) and ask to play a 4 karma + magicker we will ask you to try out one of the others first. There's a reason that they are at different karma levels and we prefer people get their feet wet with the 2 karma roles first.
I hope by 4+ you meant to say >4, not >=4. I never played a mage and have zero interest in any of them apart drovian and nilazi. They're both within my spec app reach and i'm in fact thinking of trying for a drovian. It would suck major balls if I were to be rejected because I never played karma 2 options, both of which I'll probably never play.
I felt the same way. I realize it was a mistake. I should have started with something capable of magey interaction. Your mileage may vary.
But drovians aren't as shunned as nilazis right? In the witch community anyway. As for the common populace, they shouldn't differentiate.
this reminds me of that time when I wanted to roll up a red fang, but staff made me roll a soh as it was my first delf. i didn't enjoy the soh, the whole time I was thinking about scars and frolicking with gith
Quote from: spicemustflow on May 08, 2013, 02:55:11 PM
Quote from: Adhira on May 07, 2013, 07:33:59 PM
As an FYI for new folks that are thinking of special apping for magickers etc. If you have never played a magicker (ie water or stone) and ask to play a 4 karma + magicker we will ask you to try out one of the others first. There's a reason that they are at different karma levels and we prefer people get their feet wet with the 2 karma roles first.
I hope by 4+ you meant to say >4, not >=4. I never played a mage and have zero interest in any of them apart drovian and nilazi. They're both within my spec app reach and i'm in fact thinking of trying for a drovian. It would suck major balls if I were to be rejected because I never played karma 2 options, both of which I'll probably never play.
4+, I'm afraid. We do want to see how you'd do with a traditionally less-powerful magicker (something that you haven't played yet but do have karma to play) before granting the possibility of more powerful magicker options (something that you also haven't played yet but do not have karma to play). The same goes for your elven role you mention later on--playing an elf with actual structure, rules, and fairly straightforward documentation (as opposed to an elf with less structure, fewer rules, and more complicated documentation) is preferable to show us you know what to do when it comes to role restrictions.
Nyr, from what I've read here higher karma doesn't necessarily mean more powerful, it can also mean "rarer". And drovians (if gdb can be trusted) are one of the least powerful magic guilds. In any case, wouldn't it be better to let the player try something they enjoy than half-assedly play something else in order to "graduate"? Failing a drovian would be much more interesting to me than rocking a rukkian.
I think this is a more or less apt analogy: an elven assassin in much, much harder to pull off than a human warrior, both in terms of code and rp, but no one is forced to play the warrior if they don't want to. (yeah, i know that in this case karma level is the same, but still. an elf assassin played by a newb isn't going to last)
Quote from: spicemustflow on May 08, 2013, 02:55:11 PM
Quote from: Adhira on May 07, 2013, 07:33:59 PM
As an FYI for new folks that are thinking of special apping for magickers etc. If you have never played a magicker (ie water or stone) and ask to play a 4 karma + magicker we will ask you to try out one of the others first. There's a reason that they are at different karma levels and we prefer people get their feet wet with the 2 karma roles first.
I hope by 4+ you meant to say >4, not >=4. I never played a mage and have zero interest in any of them apart drovian and nilazi. They're both within my spec app reach and i'm in fact thinking of trying for a drovian. It would suck major balls if I were to be rejected because I never played karma 2 options, both of which I'll probably never play.
I think a big part of this is that anything beyond Ruks/Vivs are not user friendly classes to play to someone completely new to magickers.
I assume you can still play them by earning karma the old fashioned way, though.
Quote from: Marauder Moe on May 08, 2013, 04:10:11 PM
I assume you can still play them by earning karma the old fashioned way, though.
I think so. Still...
As for being user friendly, I think that's up to player to decide. See my comparison between h. warrior and e. assassin. If I want to spend my spec app slot on something that will probably get killed fast, why not let me? Again, I think I'll have more fun with a short lived drov than anything from lvl2.
sorry about the derail, btw
Quote from: Bogre on May 08, 2013, 04:09:18 PM
I think a big part of this is that anything beyond Ruks/Vivs are not user friendly classes to play to someone completely new to magickers.
In my opinion, even ruks and vivs aren't user-friendly. It will probably take many players a few runs before they start to a) get the hang of the coded parts, and b) get beyond the coded parts and back to the roleplay that brought them there in the first place.
I never played a mud before Arm, around 2007 I gave it my first go because it came highly recommended from a friend. Being unfamiliar with command lines, clients and the syntax it was very confusing. I was familiar with RP though because I played dnd. I felt lost without having someway of keeping which way I went or in other words without having a map. I played two characters and quit for two years after dying of starvation twice. If some clan would have picked me up and showed me the ropes I may have stayed. In may of 2010 I tried again on a new account cause I lost all the info. I got some help with learning the syntax and from there learned the rest. I really enjoy the permanent death and persistent world.
^ Same here. ArmMUD was the first MUD that I have played, in 2008 I think and started up again in 2010.
Quote from: Fathi on May 08, 2013, 05:39:39 AM
Our new maps are so much better! I think it was Rhyden who made them, wasn't it? Thanks Rhyden if it was you!
No problem. :)
I created the Tuluki one and a few others with my Negean noble in '06. It may or may not be still floating around somewhere in game. The Allanaki one was much easier to make for some reason, but I didn't make it until years later.
You'll never see one of the wilderness though. Part of the outside world's charm is how mysterious and daunting it is, especially for newbies.
I found out that Arm was the best MUD on the planet of Earth, but originally, there appeared to be a lot of cliquish and elitist behaviour that was visible on the surface, and it turned me off. It took me forever to realize it didn't detract from the game, at all. The GDB is a double-edged sword. I have four thousand posts because I thought it was often funny, or somehow engaging. It can give a false impression to a new player, I think, that doesn't understand our inside jokes, or tendency to take arguments either with patent nonchalance, or to new extremes of Serious and Butthurt, with little left in the middle. I'm guilty of it, too, but perhaps we could all handle the IG related boards with kid gloves in the future, limiting arguments to their designated places, and leaving the rest to be informative (or any way you like it, in the Non-Arm threads).
Hmmm. Maybe desert-elves should get a map of the Tablelands. Can't count how many have died to "fell down hole#234"
Or stepped outside their camp only to fall off a massive cliff.
Or wandered too close to Gith territory.
Or found the land around them getting grassy until mantis-head via mantis head...
Maybe just a "things and places to avoid". Part to clan documentation. I did have fun mapping everything out with my first delf, lots of very close calls.
A crippling sense of inferiority when it comes to roleplay.
Quote from: lordcooper on May 14, 2013, 09:54:47 AM
A crippling sense of inferiority when it comes to roleplay.
Still.
Quote from: lordcooper on May 14, 2013, 10:04:55 AM
Quote from: Barzalene on May 14, 2013, 10:01:47 AM
Quote from: lordcooper on May 14, 2013, 09:54:47 AM
A crippling sense of inferiority when it comes to roleplay.
Still.
Yup :-\
Warlord Iakovitez (sp) Tor. Jesus.
There are just people who command a room when they enter it and it seems like the whole place is suspended in time for a bit. That's actually one of the things that made me love this game.
The things that were a turn off for me as a player back are much less (maybe even gone) now and had nothing to do with the game now. I like the forward progress.
I had played Muds before, some real old school ones. I was excited to find Arm, because it resembled them in many ways. I read the docs and drafted my first PC.
And things went quickly downhill. Right off the shield wall in fact, while running from gith. In spite of reading the docs I still had NO CLUE what to do. I felt like someone had thrown red paint on me and hung a neon sign around my neck flashing:
"newb" "newb" "newb" "newb" "newb".
I tried the chat and while most responses were a -bit- longer than one syllable, I still felt like I was talking to someone at the DMV counter.
Those things were turn offs. But even so, the game was so well done and so cool that I had to try again. Obsesive Armageddon Disorder followed soon after.
HOWEVER, they system for new players is much better now, all around. Kudos to the staff and players that made this happen.
Oh..yes. Now when I see someone who is obviously new, I remember how I felt and have a rush of empathy. Right before I have my PC take their boots.
Quote from: Norcal on May 15, 2013, 11:36:15 AM
I had played Muds before, some real old school ones. I was excited to find Arm, because it resembled them in many ways. I read the docs and drafted my first PC.
And things went quickly downhill. Right off the shield wall in fact, while running from gith. In spite of reading the docs I still had NO CLUE what to do. I felt like someone had thrown red paint on me and hung a neon sign around my neck flashing: "newb" "newb" "newb" "newb" "newb".
I tried the chat and while most responses were a -bit- longer than one syllable, I still felt like I was talking to someone at the DMV counter.
Those things were turn offs. But even so, the game was so well done and so cool that I had to try again. Obsesive Armageddon Disorder followed soon after.
HOWEVER, they system for new players is much better now, all around. Kudos to the staff and players that made this happen.
Oh..yes. Now when I see someone who is obviously new, I remember how I felt and have a rush of empathy. Right before I have my PC take their boots.
i felt the exact same way a month ago when I started, still do a bit. What really helped me was the Helpers. Shoutout to bcw and laura!
Quote from: Caiden on May 15, 2013, 08:35:20 PM
i felt the exact same way a month ago when I started, still do a bit. What really helped me was the Helpers. Shoutout to bcw and laura!
KEEP PLAYING
DIE SOME MORE
PLAY SOME MORE!!!!1
Quote from: LauraMars on May 15, 2013, 09:38:04 PM
Quote from: Caiden on May 15, 2013, 08:35:20 PM
i felt the exact same way a month ago when I started, still do a bit. What really helped me was the Helpers. Shoutout to bcw and laura!
KEEP PLAYING
DIE SOME MORE
PLAY SOME MORE!!!!1
You know it :D
The color, for sure.
A foriegn presence contacts your mind
An absurdly important person sends you a telepathic message:
"Blah, blah, blah."
you yell, waving your arms around wildly,
"HELP IM BEING MINDBENDED"
When I actually took the time to read the way helpfile I felt so stupid.
Repeatedly knocking self unconscious trying to use The Way.
But that's something that was corrected a while ago.
Quote from: hyzhenhok on May 23, 2013, 11:38:54 PM
Repeatedly knocking self unconscious trying to use The Way.
But that's something that was corrected a while ago.
Speak for yourself, i still do that shit 5 years later. LOL
Clan schedules.
I had spent several years playing other RPIs before I first really checked out Armageddon. The GDB indicated that the Byn was a good place for a new player to go. Something similar held true with other RPIs: military clans were full of PCs who would help teach new players the ropes.
My character got recruited, then spent four weeks doing nothing interesting. No Sergeant (can't help real life), two or three other Runners with playtimes that didn't quite match up, and it was only after a month or so that a Sergeant from the other city rescued that stranded crew. Things were pretty cool, then. Even then, my playtimes didn't mesh very well with the rest of the clan, and those quiet periods were really very dull.
I drifted away for a while, then stored and gave it another go with a new character, largely at the insistence of a former Armageddon player that I knew that it was worth giving the game a second chance. I took the independent route, and things went far better.
I've since learned to pick out whether a clan has an enforced schedule or not. They simply don't suit me at all.
Clans with enforced schedules are worth giving a third shot. They can be amazing.
You really have to hit the sweet spot of players + leadership + plotz for clan schedules to get awesome, I think.
Coming from someone who led a clan for approx 1 RL year, coming up with a way to keep all your underlings trained and entertained is challenging at best, but when everyone's got a goal to strive for, that makes it so much better - and a hell of a lot of fun.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on May 26, 2013, 09:51:19 PM
Clans with enforced schedules are worth giving a third shot. They can be amazing.
Agreed. But I typically only go to them when they are active. But I still love the Byn, and Kurac and militia/legions/ect.
The biggest deal was probably the mechanical opacity of it all. I started playing Arm because a friend from an IRE MUD was telling me amazing stories about what his characters had been doing. I knew IRE MUDs like the back of my hand, so I figured learning another MUD must be easy in comparison, right?
Wrong.
During the life of one PC, her clan was taking a trip up to Luir's for reasons I can't recall. The idea was to stay up there for a RL day or two until some business sorted out. That was fine, she'd been up there before, and had been raised there as part of her background. The problem? I had no idea how the water seller in Luir's worked. I scanned the helpfiles, tried random commands - nothing. So rather than risk sounding like a retard and asking others (and getting the dreaded 'find out ic' response leading to even more IC retardation), whenever she got thirsty she'd jack a mount from the clan's argosy and sprint back down to Allanak for some refills at the clan compound, ideally making it back before the day was over.
During one of these trips she'd gone up to Tuluk instead, and on the way back was attacked by a tembo (maybe it was something else). She outran it with her mount since she knew she'd die fighting it. The tembo followed her halfway across the world, back to Luir's, resulting in someone from Kurac threatening to butcher her if she tried to draw angry animals to the gate again. Between that PC's horrid stats making me feeling like she was 'trapped' as a character, and not knowing what the fuck happened with that tembo, it was one of the most stressful interactions I had on that character.
That, and the seeming need to tavern-sit/posture to get hired by anyone. That produces crazy RP anxiety for me. Still does.
Dear lord man, use the OOC command, or ask a helper. Things like syntax, or weird code quirks are never a "find out ic" problem.
Furien's tale brings me back...
My first character managed to become a sergeant in the Byn without ever having to buy water from the Temple of the Dragon in Allanak. On the very first outing I was bringing my minions on, we stopped there to refill. Queue me asking oocly how to get that water. I'm not a mindbender IRL, but I swear I heard every player in the room think "we're all gonna die" at that instant. ;D Such is Byn leadership: herp till you derp.
On topic? I acclimated to Arm really easily and loved it from the start. I guess the hardest part was learning the code, but the Byn was great for that. I'm probably one of those few players that really likes clan schedules, so that was no problem. I will say that the RP was intimidating at first as well, especially without knowing the code well.
I made my first account/character I believe sometime in 1995, but never really gave it an honest go until around 2000.
I started off powergamey, coming from Carrionfields which is all about PK tactics and less about RP. I did not initially understand the concept of roleplaying nor could I really enjoy it. The game was too basic to me, e.g. I'm a warrior and I got bash. kick and disarm to use in combat and that's it? That said, I still loved the general setting and I loved that it reminded me of my tabletop Darksun days, so I stuck with it. Eventually I got karma just from playing for so long that I played a slew of desert elves, which are perfect for dying while exploring Zalanthas.
Around 2000-2002 I spec app'd a wind elementalist. Why the Imms trusted powergamey me I do not know, but they did. It satisfied my need for having "loads of skills/spells" and the magick system here is just really unique. I dig it. Saw a bunch of higher end magicker stuff which shall remain [redacted] and realized just how deep the mysterious things get. Armageddon looks fairly basic, code-wise (not RP) at the get go, but really is very complex underneath the surface. With that wind elementalist I got into boatloads of trouble, and there was a particular player whose RP was very inspiring, and it got me swinging and focusing on RP.
So, long story short, what almost turned me off when I was new is that I had not appreciated the RP angle of the game and so it was dry to me. I think it takes having an inspiring character RP with you, fluid emoting and hooking a player emotionally (to the extent a game can), to hook a person into Arm.
So, be awesome emoters and RPers, especially to all of "the tall, muscular man" newbies out there. You may sink Arm's teeth into them just yet.
Do not like at all how cryptic the staff is about the code, especially the hoops you have to jump through to learn it.
Do not like how laggy the game can be, combat in particular, in a permadeath game there shouldn't be these cryptic iffy wiffy what-ifs highly random lags in combat. It should be more transparent.
Do not like how cryptic the code can be in general, some of the syntaxes are just silly.
But for everything I dislike there a hundred things I do like.
+1 to Ktavialt's post.
In a word, permadeath.
It can be daunting at first, especially before you pop your cherry. But once it's done and over with, and Ginka rolls off you to grab a smoke, there's a sense of freedom that comes over you. Knowing that no matter how much blood, sweat and tears you pour into a character, one day it'll inevitably end. They'll shed the mortal coil and you'll be able to ruin another brilliant concept in your mind.
My first character, back in 2002, lasted exactly 14 hours played and I'm fairly sure died the moment he stepped outside 'nak. It was crushing. But in those 14 hours I had gotten a glimpse of something special in the distance. Sadly, no, it wasn't the desert tarantula approaching my character when he left the gates, but something else. Something ethereal, something in the air, something unique to Zalanthas. I couldn't really describe it, but I got the sense this world was special. So I rolled again, the very next day...
My next character lasted 14 days played, and would change my gaming life forever. In the two months I played him, that character not only met some incredible people, characters that remain household names, but managed to leave his mark in the world (a mark that still stands today). And man, that was worth every death that would follow.
I've been chasing the dragon ever since, and every now and then, when I least expect it, I'll get a glimmer of what I felt then; that sense of wonder and fear, like electricity in air before a big storm. And it keeps making every death that follows, worth it.
Quote from: LauraMars on May 15, 2013, 09:38:04 PM
Quote from: Caiden on May 15, 2013, 08:35:20 PM
i felt the exact same way a month ago when I started, still do a bit. What really helped me was the Helpers. Shoutout to bcw and laura!
KEEP PLAYING
DIE SOME MORE
PLAY SOME MORE!!!!1
this
ive put bc and laura through hell
Quote from: Wastrel on June 16, 2013, 10:16:22 PM
Quote from: LauraMars on May 15, 2013, 09:38:04 PM
Quote from: Caiden on May 15, 2013, 08:35:20 PM
i felt the exact same way a month ago when I started, still do a bit. What really helped me was the Helpers. Shoutout to bcw and laura!
KEEP PLAYING
DIE SOME MORE
PLAY SOME MORE!!!!1
this
ive put bc and laura through hell
<3 your boots.
I don't think I've contributed to this one yet....
Seriously...nothing. I was hooked the second I started reading the docs and it took a good 2-3 years before I took a break. Bad stuff happened to my characters, but it was all part of the fun. Helpers were great and the staff were incredibly supportive and patient (and still are, but from my newb perspective it was really lovely).
The biggest thing that turns me off, is the difference of knowledgable power between the newer players and the older players. I have always told anyone I suggest the mud to, it has a harsh learning curve. You know nothing, until one day, you know more then you ever could have thought and even when that day comes, you still know nothing.
Don't get me wrong, while it turns me off, it also turns me on (heh heh heh) I enjoy finding new things to learn, but it is soo frustratiing when you keep failing.
Quote from: hatchets on June 18, 2013, 07:43:26 PM
The biggest thing that turns me off, is the difference of knowledgable power between the newer players and the older players. I have always told anyone I suggest the mud to, it has a harsh learning curve. You know nothing, until one day, you know more then you ever could have thought and even when that day comes, you still know nothing.
Don't get me wrong, while it turns me off, it also turns me on (heh heh heh) I enjoy finding new things to learn, but it is soo frustratiing when you keep failing.
This, sort of.
You know, I've been playing since the beginning of 2008, and a few months ago, I -still- wound up having to OOC to ask someone what the syntax was for a particular 'vial' item to use it properly. And they didn't know either. And had to try helper chat, but no one was there. And then finally asked a friend, and after 6 hours was informed what the syntax was.
While I don't at all mind it in the sense of 'hating' it... it was SUPER frustrating, and a huge reminder that yeah, even when you've been around for years and by very few definitions of the word could be considered a newb, you still are one.
Unless you're X-D. I swear, that dude's pretty much branched GOTO and I'm pretty sure he killed a wyvern once.
And how they tend to hoard that knowledge and look at you funny when you try to RP something they know isn't codedly possible
Karma.
I was very disappointed after reading the vast docs on the website about how the magick system worked. I had been playing a magic user on another mud and was one of the 'dominant' ones in the hack'n slash environment there.
I read about it here, thought it was cool as hell, and started apping, only to find that I couldn't be one. So I made an assassin instead, promptly went to start earning experience, backstabbed a slave, and ended up in jail. After a ten minute wait, I disconnected, vowing that I had tried the game and it was not worth continuing.
I later reconnected to find myself out of jail, and was only 'drawn in' to staying by the player of Boopsie the templar. He kinda showed through example that it was NOT a hack'n slash game, at least not in spirit.
I've tried Arm a few times, but never had a character stick. I think my top three reasons are probably these:
1. Lack of 0-karma, clanned roles.
There are a lot of barriers to meaningful character interaction, conversation, and relationships on Arm: social class, regional differences, racism, magick, the general harshness of the world, etc., etc. The population is spread thinner than on other RPIs, and I often get the impression that the convenience of the Way discourages tavern-sitting by established PCs, making it something of a challenge to find employment IC, especially if one isn't willing to go cold-calling strangers' (or near-strangers') minds to do it.
Even on MUDs where it's relatively easy to get one's character clanned (where clan resources are abundant, or where the IC culture is generally a trusting one, or where the OOC culture is one of bending IC norms as far as necessary to get newbies into clans) -- or on MUDs where unclanned characters have an easier time building relationships and/or learning their way around -- I don't enjoy spending my first few days on a new PC unemployed and idling. On Arm, I don't enjoy spending my PC's entire life unemployed and idling (or grinding, when idling gets old). :P
ElseMUD, I've had and seen characters hired as barmaids, cooks, stableboys, farmhands, and housekeepers ... all manner of unskilled and (often) uncoded jobs. On Arm, I found most recruiters highly focused on one question: "What are your skills? No, really, what are your skills?"
2. Restrictions, oddities, and secrets of the guild/subguild/skill-branching system.
I have a whole rant on this topic -- and I just inflicted most of it on my beloved, long-suffering husband -- but really, I think most of my complaints are the same ones common to most players coming from purely skill-based muds, or to most players who value fine-grained character customization (even for first characters) over the thrill of in-game but still OOC discoveries. Or, you know, players who don't want to have to master painting to branch photography, but aren't willing to give up background/flavor/skill opportunities by picking a guild/subguild pair as redundant as artist/photographer.
[For this point and the first, it may bear mentioning that I'm a strictly noncombat player; I imagine this self-imposed limitation on the character concepts and playstyles I'm willing to entertain contributes to my perspective in both cases.]
3. Fall exits.
IRL, sane, sober people in full possession of their faculties simply don't walk off cliffs in broad daylight. Other muds color fall exits red; other muds require you to type "N !" to walk north off one. It's immersion-breaking under the best of circumstances ... and quite simply maddening when one has been diligently scanning only to misinterpret, say, "A High, Rocky Cliff" as an overlook at the edge of said cliff rather than the top climb room over its edge.
Note: All examples are fictional; any resemblance to actual code, scenery, or plot is purest coincidence.
All this said, I like RPIs. I like low-fantasy worlds; I like less than 'nice' themes in games. I even have a certain nostalgic fondness for some of Arm's sources of literary and gaming inspiration. I ought to like Arm.
The staff animating NPCs to yell at me makes me happy and also this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YvAYIJSSZY)
I'd give anything to go back to knowing nothing.
And I don't even know that much.
The new-game-feel of Armageddon was one of the best things for me.
Shit, I'm drunk.
Quote from: eltanimras on June 23, 2013, 02:58:32 AM
All this said, I like RPIs. I like low-fantasy worlds; I like less than 'nice' themes in games. I even have a certain nostalgic fondness for some of Arm's sources of literary and gaming inspiration. I ought to like Arm.
I had a similar experience when I first started playing. My first character was quite blah and though she managed to get clanned, she didn't get involved in anything I found interesting. I stored her and as a last resort I put in a role application for a bard of Poets' Circle. I would have quit ARM forever if I hadn't gotten hooked in this second role. (And since then, I have to say, I've played some really addictive roles and some others that were total duds. I find it's kind of hit-and-miss.) Some things I would suggest you might try out:
Non-combat, 0-karma, clanned characters through role application:
--
Human tribal (al Seik or Arabet) of merchant guild. It's my impression that the Arabet in particular may have some fun craftables, so if you like crafting, that may be attractive to you. You would be immediately clanned at character setup and have some automatic potential allies/friends within your clan. There would be clan resources available to you, so your character is unlikely to starve/dehydrate, and there may even be crafting materials available.
--
Bard of Poets' Circle in Tuluk. You could play any guild--for non-combat, merchant, pickpocket, and burglar are great as a bard. You can also play any race, though I'd recommend playing a human. Your character would have been born into the Circle. You'd start out clanned and there would be other clanned bards, plus there are merchants/nobles/templars who'd be looking to patronize you or hire you for stuff. If you have any artistic bent (music, visual arts, dance, poetry or prose) then this might be a good choice.
--
Clanned city elf - Akai Sjir in Tuluk or Jaxa Pah in the Labyrinth. Again, merchant, pickpocket, or burglar would all work for this. You'd be clanned as a born member and probably have some clan mates to start out with. There are clan resources and locations.
Non-combat, karma-required characters that are within your reach through special application:
--
Desert elf of merchant guild. You'd start out clanned, the clan has resources and members and a location already. I'd recommend the Sun Runners as it's a slightly less isolated role and there's more potential travel to the cities. It only requires one karma so if you've played a little you're pretty likely to be able to get this through special app.
--
Human Vivaduan. Vivaduans have some pretty useful non-combat skills even right at the start. It's only a 2-karma role so you're pretty likely to be granted a try at it if you've been around a little. I'd suggest that you go for playing a gemmed role in Allanak simply because templars there are very likely to want to use your skills. It's not a clanned role, though there is the potential to be hired/clanned by House Oash.
Now, I realize that it may be intimidating to put in role applications or special applications. And I get that, because I don't like doing it either. No one likes to hear "no," or "yes, but." But the staff are keenly interested in helping you to find a place in the game where you can both enjoy and contribute. You could also use our Helpers as a resource for brainstorming stuff.
Good luck!
Quote from: Wug on June 23, 2013, 03:19:28 AM
I'd give anything to go back to knowing nothing.
And I don't even know that much.
This, so much.
Quote from: eltanimras on June 23, 2013, 02:58:32 AM
3. Fall exits.
IRL, sane, sober people in full possession of their faculties simply don't walk off cliffs in broad daylight. Other muds color fall exits red; other muds require you to type "N !" to walk north off one. It's immersion-breaking under the best of circumstances ... and quite simply maddening when one has been diligently scanning only to misinterpret, say, "A High, Rocky Cliff" as an overlook at the edge of said cliff rather than the top climb room over its edge.
I'm not sure I've seen a cliff edge that wasn't well represented in the room description surrounding it. A simple added line at the end of the room description like, "The area to the north looks like it drops off/is a steep cliff/may require climbing," would be really excellent. It would pop out and be noticeable as well as not break immersion.
Quote from: Rumor on June 23, 2013, 01:24:38 PM
Quote from: eltanimras on June 23, 2013, 02:58:32 AM
3. Fall exits.
IRL, sane, sober people in full possession of their faculties simply don't walk off cliffs in broad daylight. Other muds color fall exits red; other muds require you to type "N !" to walk north off one. It's immersion-breaking under the best of circumstances ... and quite simply maddening when one has been diligently scanning only to misinterpret, say, "A High, Rocky Cliff" as an overlook at the edge of said cliff rather than the top climb room over its edge.
I'm not sure I've seen a cliff edge that wasn't well represented in the room description surrounding it. A simple added line at the end of the room description like, "The area to the north looks like it drops off/is a steep cliff/may require climbing," would be really excellent. It would pop out and be noticeable as well as not break immersion.
there are some that do not
cough north road
Quote from: PriestlySiren on June 23, 2013, 03:08:08 AM
The staff animating NPCs to yell at me makes me happy and also this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YvAYIJSSZY)
This tells me I'm at least doing something interesting. It definitely makes the game seem more alive and teaches me to respect the presence of NPCs and vNPCs.
Quote from: Wastrel on June 23, 2013, 04:24:33 PM
there are some that do not
cough north road
If you think there are fall rooms that are not clearly marked enough in the connecting rooms, you should bug them. Then staff can take a look and make a judgment. Portions of the gameworld are very old and there are some consistency issues. So you're doing a service to the game and the playerbase if you bug stuff like this.
yes maam
Quote from: Gimfalisette on June 23, 2013, 07:19:17 PM
Quote from: Wastrel on June 23, 2013, 04:24:33 PM
there are some that do not
cough north road
If you think there are fall rooms that are not clearly marked enough in the connecting rooms, you should bug them. Then staff can take a look and make a judgment. Portions of the gameworld are very old and there are some consistency issues. So you're doing a service to the game and the playerbase if you bug stuff like this.
These places that I'm thinking these are alluding to were actually changed away from clearly marked to not clearly marked, thus making it appear to anyone who paid attention over the course of time that it was intended to be a surprise buttsex trap. Which I'm not complaining about, just saying...I don't think these not being clearly marked is always a mistake or unintended.
Quote from: Armaddict on June 23, 2013, 08:24:44 PM
These places that I'm thinking these are alluding to were actually changed away from clearly marked to not clearly marked, thus making it appear to anyone who paid attention over the course of time that it was intended to be a surprise buttsex trap. Which I'm not complaining about, just saying...I don't think these not being clearly marked is always a mistake or unintended.
It's worth bugging in game, in case. I don't actually think that staff generally intends to give players surprise deaths in this manner. But hey, if they do, then there's no harm done by filing a bug about it--staff can just ignore it if that's the intention.
Not to make a derail of it, but thanks, Gimfalisette. :)
I feel more inspired even for routine niche- and job-hunting now.
Quote from: eltanimras on June 23, 2013, 02:58:32 AM
3. Fall exits.
IRL, sane, sober people in full possession of their faculties simply don't walk off cliffs in broad daylight. Other muds color fall exits red; other muds require you to type "N !" to walk north off one. It's immersion-breaking under the best of circumstances ... and quite simply maddening when one has been diligently scanning only to misinterpret, say, "A High, Rocky Cliff" as an overlook at the edge of said cliff rather than the top climb room over its edge.
You know what?
This complaint is spot on. Clearly marked or not, there's no reason there should be any situations in game where a single keystroke can bring you semi-certain character death that any half way cognizant real person could avoid. (Of course in situations of sandstorm blindness, poor wagon piloting skills, mount panic, fleeing, etc a chance to go over the edge is more reasonable.)
I'd be cool with something like "n !", "n jump", "n climb" as the only way to willingly walk off a cliff.
agreed
Quote from: eltanimras on June 23, 2013, 02:58:32 AM
especially if one isn't willing to go cold-calling strangers' (or near-strangers') minds to do it.
Besides Gimf's good advice, I wouldn't be too afraid of this. ICly, yes there is supposedly a stigma against disturbing the thoughts of the wealthy and powerful, but in practice, I have rarely seen someone get seriously called down for it. Said powerful person might pay lip service to it for the look of the thing, but in reality, contacting people is a necessity in a game where people aren't always logged in and may or may not have real underlings to carry messages for you.
If your concern is about the realistic likelihood of finding someone's mind based on their name alone, you can always ask, "Do I have the mind of...".
Quote from: James de Monet on June 24, 2013, 12:56:49 PM
If your concern is about the realistic likelihood of finding someone's mind based on their name alone, you can always ask, "Do I have the mind of...".
JDM is right on the money with his post. The true high-tier roles aren't available to players, the kind of people that would make you crap your pants if they looked at you. Most of the leadership roles are people on the ground, handling the grunt work, and they need grunts like you to get it done. A proper introduction goes a long way in piquing their interest.
Never, ever Way someone like that and fail to introduce yourself by name, though. If they even bother to contact you back, their first thought is going to be "Who is this fucktard?"
Super helpful. Thanks, guys.
If your main guild doesn't allow you to make anything, pick a subguild that allows you to make some money. If you join a group your life as a grebber is pretty much over. Talk to people who know how to do what you can do. Processing materials and crafting goods can help you make some much needed money, otherwise you'll find yourself wearing stinky gith shit and wishing you'd spent a year or two grebbing before you signed up, but spend some time grebbing anyway, ask around, people who need materials will tell you where to find them, and pay you to go get them. It may be dangerous but going into a job well equipped is well worth the risk.
Quote from: Fujikoma on June 24, 2013, 09:35:41 PM
If your main guild doesn't allow you to make anything, pick a subguild that allows you to make some money. If you join a group your life as a grebber is pretty much over. Talk to people who know how to do what you can do. Processing materials and crafting goods can help you make some much needed money, otherwise you'll find yourself wearing stinky gith shit and wishing you'd spent a year or two grebbing before you signed up, but spend some time grebbing anyway, ask around, people who need materials will tell you where to find them, and pay you to go get them. It may be dangerous but going into a job well equipped is well worth the risk.
I'm not quite sure what kind of characters you tend to play, but mine are perfectly happy to have subpar equipment and don't mope about being clanned one bit. Also, clans tend to provide equipment to their employees. Working on your own before getting employed makes little sense ICly and is a sketchy OOC maneuver at best.
Quote from: Marauder Moe on June 24, 2013, 11:26:42 AM
Quote from: eltanimras on June 23, 2013, 02:58:32 AM
3. Fall exits.
IRL, sane, sober people in full possession of their faculties simply don't walk off cliffs in broad daylight. Other muds color fall exits red; other muds require you to type "N !" to walk north off one. It's immersion-breaking under the best of circumstances ... and quite simply maddening when one has been diligently scanning only to misinterpret, say, "A High, Rocky Cliff" as an overlook at the edge of said cliff rather than the top climb room over its edge.
You know what?
This complaint is spot on. Clearly marked or not, there's no reason there should be any situations in game where a single keystroke can bring you semi-certain character death that any half way cognizant real person could avoid. (Of course in situations of sandstorm blindness, poor wagon piloting skills, mount panic, fleeing, etc a chance to go over the edge is more reasonable.)
I'd be cool with something like "n !", "n jump", "n climb" as the only way to willingly walk off a cliff.
I've had some nasty falls before. Get out in the wilderness IRL, nubs.
I too have nearly fallen off a cliff I knew was right there. And had a friend die in high-school, from falling off of a cliff.
Quote from: Patuk on June 24, 2013, 10:20:37 PM
Quote from: Fujikoma on June 24, 2013, 09:35:41 PM
If your main guild doesn't allow you to make anything, pick a subguild that allows you to make some money. If you join a group your life as a grebber is pretty much over. Talk to people who know how to do what you can do. Processing materials and crafting goods can help you make some much needed money, otherwise you'll find yourself wearing stinky gith shit and wishing you'd spent a year or two grebbing before you signed up, but spend some time grebbing anyway, ask around, people who need materials will tell you where to find them, and pay you to go get them. It may be dangerous but going into a job well equipped is well worth the risk.
I'm not quite sure what kind of characters you tend to play, but mine are perfectly happy to have subpar equipment and don't mope about being clanned one bit. Also, clans tend to provide equipment to their employees. Working on your own before getting employed makes little sense ICly and is a sketchy OOC maneuver at best.
Don't know what clans you play for, but most of them don't seem to pay for shit or supply shit unless they're feeling generous. Is a reason there's a whole 'nother thread bitching about independents having too much shit...
Working on your own gives you a bit of backstory, and some contacts, I hear your words but they don't mesh well with my personal experience, maybe my experiences are based around new plot developments. Maybe you only play humans, dwarves or half-giants, but I'm not equipped to judge. I do know a number of the newbie accessible clans will pay somewhat to equip a half-giant just because of how useful they are, and even waive their fee.
Maybe you're so socially adept that people just throw bits of armor and weaponry at you, and if that's the case, I salute you, however, you must understand that under those circumstances you are exceptional. That shit you can get in the hall is mildly useful, and can keep you alive a while, but it's not good shit, and it's heavy. Being clanned is essential in my book, too many advantages there to count, but few will just throw freebies your way and you will need money.
Our experiences may differ, I just got started playing and have experienced numerous deaths of characters with good stats, and have started to look at ways to minimize my losses. Gith armor isn't so bad once you get it fixed up, but too heavy. Nothing wrong with getting clanned just be ready to get your gear yourself, is all I'm saying. Get geared up and fucking live through some sparring matches, that in itself can be a challenge, depending on what you're playing and who you end up sparring while no one is around. If you haven't had any trouble, try OOC rping a newb sometime. Won't always happen but good to be prepared for everything.
Also, there's nothing wrong with having an incentive to learn the market, and having a little extra coin, the beasts in the stable don't poop often enough to keep the new shitcloaks garbed in good gear, and they'll likely die with it anyway, which means someone else will get to wear it if it is recovered. I see no problem with gathering up what you think you might need to survive before being thrown into the maw of some terrible beast. At least you'll die knowing you did your best.
Quote from: Is Friday on June 24, 2013, 10:31:42 PM
Quote from: Marauder Moe on June 24, 2013, 11:26:42 AM
Quote from: eltanimras on June 23, 2013, 02:58:32 AM
3. Fall exits.
IRL, sane, sober people in full possession of their faculties simply don't walk off cliffs in broad daylight. Other muds color fall exits red; other muds require you to type "N !" to walk north off one. It's immersion-breaking under the best of circumstances ... and quite simply maddening when one has been diligently scanning only to misinterpret, say, "A High, Rocky Cliff" as an overlook at the edge of said cliff rather than the top climb room over its edge.
You know what?
This complaint is spot on. Clearly marked or not, there's no reason there should be any situations in game where a single keystroke can bring you semi-certain character death that any half way cognizant real person could avoid. (Of course in situations of sandstorm blindness, poor wagon piloting skills, mount panic, fleeing, etc a chance to go over the edge is more reasonable.)
I'd be cool with something like "n !", "n jump", "n climb" as the only way to willingly walk off a cliff.
I've had some nasty falls before. Get out in the wilderness IRL, nubs.
Oh god I've had some terrible falls IRL because Sergeant said to go that way, one doesn't argue... Despite the evident tumble... But we all ended up laughing about it in the end, as we watched others fall. Suppose there could have been a broken neck or two but, sheesh, infantry doesn't seem to accept that kind of shit can happen. Oddly, despite all the possibilities I never saw it happen, and I'm thankful for that.
Sliding and crawling down wet and muddy hillsides in Hawaii, good times, even with the ass-bone shattering rocks encountered along the way. Grab them fucking roots! Oh shit, snap, fall! *splat* I'm ok, just give me a minute to breathe...
Quote from: Patuk on June 24, 2013, 10:20:37 PM
Working on your own before getting employed makes little sense ICly and is a sketchy OOC maneuver at best.
Why is that? I've always figured ICly that's what the majority of people do, NPC and PC.
... Then what's the problem? That large had to come from somewhere.
EDIT: It's not like your parents bribed you a large to leave home when everyone in the known has trouble putting food on the table. Grebber background is the only one that makes sense to me.
Quote from: Patuk on June 24, 2013, 10:20:37 PM
Quote from: Fujikoma on June 24, 2013, 09:35:41 PM
If your main guild doesn't allow you to make anything, pick a subguild that allows you to make some money. If you join a group your life as a grebber is pretty much over. Talk to people who know how to do what you can do. Processing materials and crafting goods can help you make some much needed money, otherwise you'll find yourself wearing stinky gith shit and wishing you'd spent a year or two grebbing before you signed up, but spend some time grebbing anyway, ask around, people who need materials will tell you where to find them, and pay you to go get them. It may be dangerous but going into a job well equipped is well worth the risk.
I'm not quite sure what kind of characters you tend to play, but mine are perfectly happy to have subpar equipment and don't mope about being clanned one bit. Also, clans tend to provide equipment to their employees. Working on your own before getting employed makes little sense ICly and is a sketchy OOC maneuver at best.
The byn doesnt just hand out free gear dude.
Off the top of my head I can think of 5 clans that will supply you with armor/weapons dependent on leadership generosity/merit. Find out IC.
Quote from: Patuk on June 24, 2013, 10:20:37 PM
Working on your own before getting employed makes little sense ICly and is a sketchy OOC maneuver at best.
I disagree. Working on your own gives you experience and skill that makes you more attractive to potential bosses. My leader PCs have very seldom hired employees who did not prove that there were competent enough to handle small tasks and show enough loyalty and a give-a-damn to stick around for a while and prove that they would be worth my PCs time and coin to train and supply. This trial time would normally include food, water, and hang out time with my other employees without clan access, salary pay, and taking up a spot on the roster. Hiring folks right off the street ICly sounds like a good way to get robbed or ganked.
[/my opinion]
Quote from: Wastrel on June 25, 2013, 01:38:22 AM
Quote from: Patuk on June 24, 2013, 10:20:37 PM
Quote from: Fujikoma on June 24, 2013, 09:35:41 PM
If your main guild doesn't allow you to make anything, pick a subguild that allows you to make some money. If you join a group your life as a grebber is pretty much over. Talk to people who know how to do what you can do. Processing materials and crafting goods can help you make some much needed money, otherwise you'll find yourself wearing stinky gith shit and wishing you'd spent a year or two grebbing before you signed up, but spend some time grebbing anyway, ask around, people who need materials will tell you where to find them, and pay you to go get them. It may be dangerous but going into a job well equipped is well worth the risk.
I'm not quite sure what kind of characters you tend to play, but mine are perfectly happy to have subpar equipment and don't mope about being clanned one bit. Also, clans tend to provide equipment to their employees. Working on your own before getting employed makes little sense ICly and is a sketchy OOC maneuver at best.
The byn doesnt just hand out free gear dude.
Ever asked?
I wouldn't advise brand new players to head out of the gates straight from chargen to make 'sids and get their skills up, as it would probably lead to a quick death. But it's a totally valid thing to do, of course. That said, I think every clannie PC I've ever run basically went straight to their clan from the get-go. Gear is nice, but without interaction boredom comes tumbling in. Having a crafting subguild is probably not a bad idea, though I think the only thing I've ever really crafted in this game were arrows.
There are other occupations, particularly in the city states, that could explain your starting 'sid that don't necessarily entail grebbing. Yeah, they kind of fall apart once they make contact with the coded reality of the world, but whatever. Use the power of make-believe.
From a hiring stand point, it really depends on the clan and what you're hiring people to do. My leader characters have run the gamut of "hire anyone who can walk" to only wanting those with expertise or at least demonstrated competence. This being Arm, I've found that either category of characters is as likely to rip you off as become super loyal minions. :)
Wrong thread!!!!
Quote from: Is Friday on June 24, 2013, 10:31:42 PMI've had some nasty falls before. Get out in the wilderness IRL, nubs.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 24, 2013, 10:49:42 PMI too have nearly fallen off a cliff I knew was right there.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 20, 2012, 09:31:50 PMThere's honestly nothing more frustrating in this game than your character paying for your own OOC typo or mistake.
Actually, I just made this post for that joke. Sorry?
I suspect that either there's a nontrivial difference in the way we've visualized the game world -- and, to be fair, I haven't played in ages, and never seriously -- or else we're arguing statistics. I mean, I'm from Hawaii. A few people die every year, and more fall but survive. Most of them were [purposely] a whole lot closer to the edge than I've typically imagined my PCs getting. They fall from ridgelines; they slip on narrow (and often muddy & overgrown) trails. If RL cliffs were half as dangerous as the Zalanthan variety, we wouldn't have a tourist industry, and I wouldn't be here typing now.
But the size of outdoor rooms has always been ambiguous, and I'm reasonably content with the option of bugging confusing descriptions."Nobody type 'e'!": http://artretreathawaii.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/meditation-panorama.jpg (http://artretreathawaii.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/meditation-panorama.jpg)
Enough silliness from me. Back to the employment discussion!
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 20, 2012, 09:31:50 PMThere's honestly nothing more frustrating in this game I mean, I'm from Hawaii.
Where at? Moving back next year /derail
Big Island. That's MacKenzie State Park in the pic. Job market's wretched, though.
@cooper yes
"Yo sarge can I have some gear so I can train better?"
"Fuck off"
"Okay"
<gets owned by an X while on an X because no armor>
Of course there are lots of subtleties and variables there and im generalizing but yea.
Quote from: Wastrel on June 25, 2013, 10:23:53 AM
@cooper yes
"Yo sarge can I have some gear so I can train better?"
"Fuck off"
"Okay"
<gets owned by an X while on an X because no armor>
Of course there are lots of subtleties and variables there and im generalizing but yea.
Runners are redshirts. It's the way it is.
Quote from: Wastrel on June 25, 2013, 01:38:22 AM
The byn doesnt just hand out free gear dude.
Sure they do. All you have to do is scavenge around the base of the shield wall or in spider territory to pick it up.
*ba-da-ching*
Quote from: eltanimras on June 25, 2013, 10:09:37 AM
Quote from: Is Friday on June 24, 2013, 10:31:42 PMI've had some nasty falls before. Get out in the wilderness IRL, nubs.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 24, 2013, 10:49:42 PMI too have nearly fallen off a cliff I knew was right there.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 20, 2012, 09:31:50 PMThere's honestly nothing more frustrating in this game than your character paying for your own OOC typo or mistake.
Actually, I just made this post for that joke. Sorry?
I suspect that either there's a nontrivial difference in the way we've visualized the game world -- and, to be fair, I haven't played in ages, and never seriously -- or else we're arguing statistics. I mean, I'm from Hawaii. A few people die every year, and more fall but survive. Most of them were [purposely] a whole lot closer to the edge than I've typically imagined my PCs getting. They fall from ridgelines; they slip on narrow (and often muddy & overgrown) trails. If RL cliffs were half as dangerous as the Zalanthan variety, we wouldn't have a tourist industry, and I wouldn't be here typing now. But the size of outdoor rooms has always been ambiguous, and I'm reasonably content with the option of bugging confusing descriptions.
"Nobody type 'e'!": http://artretreathawaii.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/meditation-panorama.jpg (http://artretreathawaii.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/meditation-panorama.jpg)
Enough silliness from me. Back to the employment discussion!
:D You caught me! I still stand by both statements though. Falling is common enough that it's not hard to play if off ICly. That doesn't mean I'm not frustrated and pissed off that I have to do it. Again. But nearly all falls in game I can think of either have a warning, or actually do the "Are you sure you want to jump off this cliff to your death.?" Thing. Bugging the ones that don't is a good idea.
Quote from: Wastrel on June 25, 2013, 10:23:53 AM
@cooper yes
"Yo sarge can I have some gear so I can train better?"
"Fuck off"
"Okay"
<gets owned by an X while on an X because no armor>
Of course there are lots of subtleties and variables there and im generalizing but yea.
It depends on your sarge. I remember being given some ok-for-a-noob gear but was told it was property of the Byn, just as my ass will be if I lost or sold it.
*you have no idea the horror I am planning just for you.*
What
QuoteWhat
Yes, just you, may take me a while to find you but I'll fuckin' do it. Just you wait... May take me a few years, please be patient. I have time...
Actually a bit drunk, sorry for the death threats MeTekillot... But I still fully intend to get you if I am able. And even then, I won't do a damned thing. Leave you guessing the whole time and even then I won't be that guy because I can't. I feel so inadequate.
You shouldn't drink so much
Even when I get sober, I will be looking for you, you cannot escape. You know how obsessive I can be.
The fall isn't usually what kills you. It's what's finds you after you're vulnerable.
^ Sometimes I revive them first.
When I've died in the wilderness, I've noticed this several times.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Is that a bug or? Was some ranger sensing a disturbance in the force and subsequently trying to find me? Is it an Imm action? When this has happened I've been alone, so its not someone in the same room as me.
Some creatures track. Sometimes whole packs of creatures track.
You only thought you were alone.
Those are parasites, shedding from your mortal coil and looking for a new host.
Quote from: Wastrel on June 26, 2013, 12:13:41 PM
When I've died in the wilderness, I've noticed this several times.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Is that a bug or? Was some ranger sensing a disturbance in the force and subsequently trying to find me? Is it an Imm action? When this has happened I've been alone, so its not someone in the same room as me.
It is sort of a bug yeah.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 26, 2013, 09:21:08 PM
Quote from: Wastrel on June 26, 2013, 12:13:41 PM
When I've died in the wilderness, I've noticed this several times.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Is that a bug or? Was some ranger sensing a disturbance in the force and subsequently trying to find me? Is it an Imm action? When this has happened I've been alone, so its not someone in the same room as me.
It is sort of a bug yeah.
;D
Looking back on it now it would be that quite a few people just do not have the patience for newbs. Once you have the hang of the emoting system it's kind of full steam ahead. Just a case of learning about the surroundings and as such.
Thankfully when I first started playing arm I was surrounded by alot of helpful characters, and joining a cities militia is a VERY good idea for a starting character. Or in my opinion anyways!
The main thing that frustrated me when I started playing though was getting to grips with the emoting and even though people were being nice and helpful ooc'ing it's & or %.. when you yourself forget even when like 10 people have told you already, it's infuriating! Or perhaps that is because I have minimal patience with myself >.>
Make a little post-it note and stick it to your monitor. I still forget about &...
I have no idea what the & is for and I'm happy that way.
Quote from: zeia on June 27, 2013, 09:20:16 AM
The main thing that frustrated me when I started playing though was getting to grips with the emoting and even though people were being nice and helpful ooc'ing it's & or %.. when you yourself forget even when like 10 people have told you already, it's infuriating! Or perhaps that is because I have minimal patience with myself >.>
Yes! I went to sleep last night and realized I had written the symbols necessary to emote properly on my leg in sharpie to prevent looking like a newb.
But "WHEN I WAS NEW" is like. A present tense situation, for me, so. Yeah, I just generally bumble into things ICly and try to look like I've done it before.
Quote from: Klara on June 27, 2013, 11:28:46 AM
Yes! I went to sleep last night and realized I had written the symbols necessary to emote properly on my leg in sharpie to prevent looking like a newb.
If this is true, it cracks me up
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 26, 2013, 09:21:08 PM
Quote from: Wastrel on June 26, 2013, 12:13:41 PM
When I've died in the wilderness, I've noticed this several times.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Someone squats down and looks for tracks.
Is that a bug or? Was some ranger sensing a disturbance in the force and subsequently trying to find me? Is it an Imm action? When this has happened I've been alone, so its not someone in the same room as me.
It is sort of a bug yeah.
bahaha
Quote from: Malken on June 27, 2013, 09:48:03 AM
I have no idea what the & is for and I'm happy that way.
Dwarf fortress demons.
Also: I think I use ~, %, ^, and !, in that order. Mostly the first two. I think I've used the = rarely.
Quote from: Bogre on July 22, 2013, 08:07:43 AM
Quote from: Malken on June 27, 2013, 09:48:03 AM
I have no idea what the & is for and I'm happy that way.
Dwarf fortress demons.
Also: I think I use ~, %, ^, and !, in that order. Mostly the first two. I think I've used the = rarely.
= and + are the emoting symbols for mudsex. I think I used one of them outside of mudsex once, ONCE, but that was only to unlock an achievement. :)
I don't use the symbols when my characters reference themselves, so I don't think I've ever typed an & into armageddon.
Thankfully my only complaint is that my two friends who generally play MUDs with me quit playing this because they didn't like the whole death is permanent thing. Since I've played Roguelikes I know permanent desth can actually be very addictive upon itself. The challenge is how long you can survive. Other then that everyone has been cool. I have been lucky to have been in good and active Clans. I think that is what makes or breaks the game for most people. The more people you have to roleplay with the more addictive the game is.
Quote from: IssacF on July 27, 2013, 10:24:06 PM
The more people you have to roleplay with the more addictive the game is.
When this is lacking, it can really hurt the game, for fresh faces and veterans alike. If my first PCs hadn't had like... immediate interaction from certain others, I'd have just tossed it aside.
So...uh...things that turned me off the game when I was new...
I'd say one of the biggest frustrations I had was with character creation, just because I found it hard to write a decent background when I knew very little about the world itself.
Oh, and I don't know if it's just a GMud thing or not...but because I would take so long to write up my first few characters, trying to get them 'right', I was timed out alot and had to start again.
Wait, that wasn't just when I was new, that still happens when I make a new character.
Quote from: Riev on July 28, 2013, 03:10:25 AM
Quote from: IssacF on July 27, 2013, 10:24:06 PM
The more people you have to roleplay with the more addictive the game is.
When this is lacking, it can really hurt the game, for fresh faces and veterans alike. If my first PCs hadn't had like... immediate interaction from certain others, I'd have just tossed it aside.
Yep. RPing is what pulls you into this MUD. Interaction is very important.
Also ones enjoyment can be affected if you are at a loss of what to do and were to go. So I guess I've been smart enough to read a -lot- of the documentation and read a -lot- of the GDB.
As for Find IC. That doesn't really have any bad effect whatsoever. Besides I -make sure- my haracter finds out IC if I'm at a loss. I might not post a lot. But I do read a lot. Never had an issue with the whole: Find IC. Because I do find IC.
Then I'm used to playing Roguelikes. Since death -is- permanent as well no matter how much you invest on a character you know sooner or later you will die. The journey is discovering how far you can go and what you can discover while thinking closely about your actions.
Except for my first character, which I made the crass error of entering the Rinth without realization of what it really was, which led me to dedicate a longer time reading documentation -before- my second character, I've enjoyed all my other characters.
On the Nyr-Zul thing above, from what's been said I'm pretty sure I know what they are talking about, and I'd have to agree with Nyr. Forces were at work far beyond any PC's, no matter how powerful, and death is the only reasonable outcome of such confrontation.
There was one other guy who I witnessed die during the HRPT whose death seemed totally out of the blue, but it was also awesome, and I suspect it had good reason too.
On the Nyr Zul thing... I wish someone would delete it. It feels really inappropriate. Especially in this thread. It's uncomfortable to read.
It is inappropriate. Zul should have taken this up in the request tool. If players have problems with events in game that is always the best course of action - we can give a lot more detail there.
I think it's important that he got some closure though. I also think it's important to note that Nyr had no part in his character's death. They did something unrealistic and dangerous which should have resulted in discovery and a swift death. They didn't wish up as required so we didn't realize what had happened until they had already left. Death was applied retroactively.
No one on staff is just waiting for the opportunity to get revenge on someone who killed one of their characters years ago.
Except me. I remember every death. And I am coming for you bastards.
I still get tripped up on the things that have to be puzzled out. But I think that's just me being a bit dim. I think many people enjoy that challenge.
Quote from: BleakOne on August 01, 2013, 01:07:08 AM
There was one other guy who I witnessed die during the HRPT whose death seemed totally out of the blue, but it was also awesome, and I suspect it had good reason too.
Not necessarily "good reason" in the way you are thinking, but yes. I can explain later on, probably.
Quote from: Barzalene on August 01, 2013, 07:30:48 AM
On the Nyr Zul thing... I wish someone would delete it. It feels really inappropriate. Especially in this thread. It's uncomfortable to read.
+1
I feel like I should threaten them with, "I will turn this car around right now!"
Seriously, come on guys. If I was a newbie and read that, it would be the reason I was almost turned away when I was a newbie.
What almost turned me off when I was first came?
OOC player and staff attitudes affecting characters in game.
Quote from: Desertman on August 01, 2013, 10:16:50 AM
Quote from: Barzalene on August 01, 2013, 07:30:48 AM
On the Nyr Zul thing... I wish someone would delete it. It feels really inappropriate. Especially in this thread. It's uncomfortable to read.
+1
I feel like I should threaten them with, "I will turn this car around right now!"
Seriously, come on guys. If I was a newbie and read that, it would be the reason I was almost turned away when I was a newbie.
Yep, I'm still a newbie, but it's stuff like this that puts me off.
On the other hand, it's good to see a proper reaction from Nyr, as opposed to it devolving down into the usual forum contest....kudos good sir!
Apart from that, most of the things that used to annoy me, have grown to make sense in the long run. Leaving me realising the uniqueness and potential of this MUD! :)
What almost turned me off when I started playing was the sheer amount of documentation. I think I spent about 2 days reading every single help file, everything I could turn over, because I was convinced I couldn't start playing the game until I knew it all. I was equally frustrated and excited. I originally found the game through TMS, and had just played Achaea and thought it was awfully boring. But ArmageddonMUD, though it seemed exciting and I loved the Dark Sun campaign setting, was so much WORK!
In retrospect, i'm really glad I did read as much as I did, because it turned into an investment for me, which is what truly makes this a lifelong hobby for me. When my first Red Stormer died, I rolled up a new one right away. And then another. And then another. And then another. Then I moved on to Tuluk. And then Allanak. And then...
So, in essence, it's funny how the thing that 'almost turned me off' when I was new to Armageddon is also responsible for why i'm still here, in part.
I'm so used to totally trying to ignore staff/player/ooc conflict on other games that... seriously, my inability to follow white on black scroll is a way bigger deal as a newb.
Quote from: Eurynomos on August 01, 2013, 12:05:27 PM
What almost turned me off when I started playing was the sheer amount of documentation.
Quote from: Desertman on August 01, 2013, 10:16:50 AM
Quote from: Barzalene on August 01, 2013, 07:30:48 AM
On the Nyr Zul thing... I wish someone would delete it. It feels really inappropriate. Especially in this thread. It's uncomfortable to read.
+1
I feel like I should threaten them with, "I will turn this car around right now!"
Seriously, come on guys. If I was a newbie and read that, it would be the reason I was almost turned away when I was a newbie.
I get what you're saying and I've moved it to moderation. It shouldn't have been posted here, it shouldn't have been posted on the GDB, but occasionally when players call out staff on our board and accuse of this or that and complain about unfair treatment, they'll get a response.
Quote from: BleakOne on August 01, 2013, 01:07:08 AM
On the Nyr-Zul thing above, from what's been said I'm pretty sure I know what they are talking about, and I'd have to agree with Nyr. Forces were at work far beyond any PC's, no matter how powerful, and death is the only reasonable outcome of such confrontation.
There was one other guy who I witnessed die during the HRPT whose death seemed totally out of the blue, but it was also awesome, and I suspect it had good reason too.
I was there in the front lines with my PC. I knew there was a high chance of dying. I assisted a lot and helped kill a lot of enemies. My last assist was a Northern Templar. Fight lastes about 5 minutes or so. Finally I died. I felt incredibly happy to have met my goals:
•Die in a war a hero and take down as many as I could. (read Go out with a bang)
My character's death was awesome.
Quote from: Eurynomos on August 01, 2013, 12:05:27 PM
What almost turned me off when I started playing was the sheer amount of documentation. I think I spent about 2 days reading every single help file, everything I could turn over, because I was convinced I couldn't start playing the game until I knew it all.
Two -days-?
Kronibas made me study up for about two weeks before he would help me make a PC. :D
Quote from: Eurynomos on August 01, 2013, 12:05:27 PM
What almost turned me off when I started playing was the sheer amount of documentation. I think I spent about 2 days reading every single help file, everything I could turn over, because I was convinced I couldn't start playing the game until I knew it all. I was equally frustrated and excited. I originally found the game through TMS, and had just played Achaea and thought it was awfully boring. But ArmageddonMUD, though it seemed exciting and I loved the Dark Sun campaign setting, was so much WORK!
In retrospect, i'm really glad I did read as much as I did, because it turned into an investment for me, which is what truly makes this a lifelong hobby for me. When my first Red Stormer died, I rolled up a new one right away. And then another. And then another. And then another. Then I moved on to Tuluk. And then Allanak. And then...
So, in essence, it's funny how the thing that 'almost turned me off' when I was new to Armageddon is also responsible for why i'm still here, in part.
Yep we agree on the sheer amount of documentation one needs to read to be competent enough. Tried skipping them and told myself: "I will read them as I go through the game..." Riiight... I don't remember if my character lost everything and I suicided by attacking soldiers or if he got backstabbed on his way out of Rinth. But the thing was he died pretty quickly. Second character however dis very well. But I was unsatisfied with the concept. Stored. Third character I read even more documentation before I made him. Did a lot better. This is one game were you definitely need to read the manual. ;D
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 02, 2013, 09:09:22 AM
Quote from: Eurynomos on August 01, 2013, 12:05:27 PM
What almost turned me off when I started playing was the sheer amount of documentation. I think I spent about 2 days reading every single help file, everything I could turn over, because I was convinced I couldn't start playing the game until I knew it all.
Two -days-?
Kronibas made me study up for about two weeks before he would help me make a PC. :D
Yeah, I think I basically read nothing but the website for like a week. Ha.
I just jumped right in, reading docs as things came up in game. It worked well. There's a lot of short 5-8 minute downtime when you're playing Arm.
There's really no need to study the docs before playing IMO. It does help though.
It helps to read the intro, especially the one we have on the new website. It takes a few minutes and is a good resource for new players figuring out what the game is about before jumping in. No one will force them to read it, but I feel like some newbies who don't will be lost once they're in-game.
After actually getting in the game it helps to read other docs and help files as needed.
I hated the idea of reading the documentation. I figured, feck its a fantasy RPG. I know enough about these to roll with the flow and learn as I go....
Then I tried to make a thick haired, long bearded dwarf....
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 02, 2013, 10:52:40 AM
I just jumped right in, reading docs as things came up in game. It worked well. There's a lot of short 5-8 minute downtime when you're playing Arm.
There's really no need to study the docs before playing IMO. It does help though.
Heh that's what I thought.
But from reading the docs much more before my second character upped my survival chances a lot. Like I said he was doing quite well. But I wasn't enjoying the concept. So he got stashed away.
1. Figuring out how to get anywhere! Annoying spending most of your time just to get to a bank. Didn't realize when making first character that if his background not in the city then I can't use directions command.
2. Not seeing many other PCs to interact with or help me. I did see some. The knowledge to go to taverns wasn't ingrained strongly enough.
3. It not being clear how to join a GMH as a newb merchant. I tried going into their estates which didn't work, and being a independent merchant is not easy.
Not having enough helpfiles to explain mechanical commands(this was a long time ago).
There have been rare, occasional moments where I felt like a player was actually taking their IC hatred a little too far. As in, it no longer felt like roleplay but chatroom abuse.
The 'learn as you fail thing'.
I like it now, really like it.
Before I was like "Why the fuck do I get better at hitting people because I miss them the fuck is this shit"
The slow pace comparable to hack and slash muds... it takes a while to appreciate what Arm has to offer RP-wise.
I wanted to chop shit up with bone swords. I made a ranger, bought some gear. Went due west out of allanak, spider bites your ass, spider bites your faceparts, spider bites your toes, beep. I was staring at my computer wondering why I waited 24 hours for my pc to be approved for that? It was more than a year before I came back and made another account.
With Nak being the new newbie start-zone with Tuluk being closed, I feel bad for the new players that want to hop right in and go explore the wastes with their rough and tumble ranger concept. The land near nak is unforgiving to rangers. Especially inexperienced players.
Quote from: Majikal on April 23, 2015, 03:36:37 AM
I wanted to chop shit up with bone swords. I made a ranger, bought some gear. Went due west out of allanak, spider bites your ass, spider bites your faceparts, spider bites your toes, beep. I was staring at my computer wondering why I waited 24 hours for my pc to be approved for that? It was more than a year before I came back and made another account.
With Nak being the new newbie start-zone with Tuluk being closed, I feel bad for the new players that want to hop right in and go explore the wastes with their rough and tumble ranger concept. The land near nak is unforgiving to rangers. Especially inexperienced players.
My first assassin backstabbed an npc slave, got thrown in jail, got out, backstabbed someone who attacked a pc templar, got recruited into the militia, then went out and died to a scrab. In 3 hours. I didn't even learn how to dual wield.
First -ranger- lived for awhile, but the noob was real. I told a Borsail noble that their estate was more beautiful than any desert oasis I'd ever seen (I'd never left the city. Ranger backgrounds, BOOYEAH!).
The thing that turned me off was that, coming from pure hack'n slashes, I had no idea how to get more hitpoints or where scrolls of identify were so I could tell which item was better.
No color. I've been mudding for a pretty long time and this was the first time I played a game that didn't have color of some sort. Having been used to it for so long, I found myself unable to pay attention to dialogue or pick out who was important in a crowd. This is the #1 thing that turned me off to the game and caused me to quit out within 20 minutes of making my first character. I left and didn't come back until, uh, two years later? When someone convinced me it was worth a try. At which point I buckled down and wrote a highlight system for myself.
The color is probably a huge one for people coming from other muds.
It really is one of those things that's appallingly strange on arrival.
Now I go to other muds to check them out and want to claw my eyes out within minutes.
Quote from: Majikal on April 23, 2015, 03:36:37 AM
I wanted to chop shit up with bone swords. I made a ranger, bought some gear. Went due west out of allanak, spider bites your ass, spider bites your faceparts, spider bites your toes, beep. I was staring at my computer wondering why I waited 24 hours for my pc to be approved for that? It was more than a year before I came back and made another account.
With Nak being the new newbie start-zone with Tuluk being closed, I feel bad for the new players that want to hop right in and go explore the wastes with their rough and tumble ranger concept. The land near nak is unforgiving to rangers. Especially inexperienced players.
Everything is deadly to a newbie. Including northern shit like Kryl, Bahamet's, Cilops, packs of Gortoks... Honestly I think the single most deadly aspect of the southlands is a hole. In second I'd say scrabs. But regardless I don't think things should be made any easier. Someone going outside should have to know what's easy prey and what's going to eat their face off, that goes for anywhere in Zalanthas.
Also, Allanak's wildlife NPC's has be changed significantly lately. Much more variety like the north has.
Quote from: Armaddict on April 23, 2015, 04:08:05 AM
The color is probably a huge one for people coming from other muds.
It really is one of those things that's appallingly strange on arrival.
Now I go to other muds to check them out and want to claw my eyes out within minutes.
Here's my serious suggestion for this:
Use highlights in your mud client to highlight your prompt, at the least.
One trick is to make your prompt contained in some brackets, like [100hp 100/100st 120/120mv]. Highlight anything contained inside square brackets in green or yellow with your client. Depending on the client it will be a different process.
That will at the very least, break up every line of incoming text with a colored prompt, and help you sort the information.
I have been using highlights for a very long time in arma, and it's a bit jarring at me nowadays not to have ANY color. Just a prompt highlight alone and a few others are enough to enrich my visual experience.
First PC, wandered around, got lost, no colour, found a PC, they gave me a waterskin full of poop to drink and then looted my corpse. Presumably. Was not impressed with calibre of roleplay or quality of players.
Quote from: Harmless on April 23, 2015, 04:52:42 AM
Quote from: Armaddict on April 23, 2015, 04:08:05 AM
The color is probably a huge one for people coming from other muds.
It really is one of those things that's appallingly strange on arrival.
Now I go to other muds to check them out and want to claw my eyes out within minutes.
Here's my serious suggestion for this:
Use highlights in your mud client to highlight your prompt, at the least.
One trick is to make your prompt contained in some brackets, like [100hp 100/100st 120/120mv]. Highlight anything contained inside square brackets in green or yellow with your client. Depending on the client it will be a different process.
That will at the very least, break up every line of incoming text with a colored prompt, and help you sort the information.
I have been using highlights for a very long time in arma, and it's a bit jarring at me nowadays not to have ANY color. Just a prompt highlight alone and a few others are enough to enrich my visual experience.
I think you misread me. I hate color, now. I demand the bleak black and white of armageddon, otherwise my MUD just seems too fruity to be fun.
Every MUD that does have colour(read: all of them) has a button allowing you to turn it off, anyway,
Even after a couple years invested, I still consider myself a newbie. But looking back on my start, I'd have to say that lack of activity in the GMH my merchant wound up in nearly drove me off the game. There was a stretch of MONTHS irl where my only companions were NPCs because no leaders were around, and didn't hire when they were around. Most hirings were done in my companion branch, and the turnover rate due to death was so high that most of them were gone before my PC even met them. There were also restrictions on what I could do within the GMH. Understood those, but trying to learn how to play the game in that restrictive environment alone most of the time was crippling, and almost killed it for me.