Newbie gear

[X-D]

Basicly a reply to malifaxis' question in ask the staff.

Halaster says dressing up in newbie gear to sucker somebody is twinkish, and I agree.

BUT

Nothing wrong with dressing down, to make yourself look weaker and less successful then you are, to look like an easy mark, this in no way is OOC or twinkish IMO. Something I could easily see a vigilante style person doing, hell, cops IRL do it all the time in stings.

[Reverend Jeff]

Well, yeah, but police officers are also paid to, you know, serve the public good and put their lives on the line and what not. And even then, I'm given to understand that stings are a lot less common than are commonly portrayed on television.  Granted, my knowledge of this only comes from working for a legal newspaper and speaking with police fairly regularly and not from actually being a police officer, but, from what I heard, stings were used mostly to catch drug dealers and prostitutes.  If there's a rash of thefts in a given area, the police usually just step up patrols instead of wasting precious plain-clothed manpower by putting plants out on the street.  

I mean, I guess I could see it happening if, say, some noble had their huggable, stuffed gwoshi stolen and wanted revenge because they were afraid to sleep without it or something, so they go and hire some people to hunt down thieves.  Nobles have enough money to pay anyone to do just about anything if they feel like it.  But even that'd be pretty much a full time job.  Both of the major cities are huge places and chock full of people willing to make a quick 'sid off of someone else's back (and yummy goodness, of course).  

I dunno.  If theft from new players is going on, I do agree that it's a huge  problem, but maybe just increasing patrols in the area would help?  It's been a long time since I created a character in anywhere except Allanak, but at least there it's reasonable to assume that, given the newbie spawn locale, the city's soldiers would have a fairly large presence there to, at the very least, keep an eye on the huge amount of people coming and going.

[Dars]

Here's a thought I had. Who is to say is it dressing down, or think of it as dressing down into Newbie Gear?

Most of the population probably dresses in normal basic clothing. Just because I can afford better clothes, who is to say I am going to buy them?

A person can spend all their money and armor and weapons and at one point decide to take off the armor and put the clothes back on. Assuming you still have th clothes you started with. This wouldn't be twinkish, this would be simply what most would do after a day of trudging around in armor, change and wear comfortable set of clothing.

If a character still had all the stuff, all you have to think of it is that he is simply dressing normal. Problem is yes, some may have the OOC intention of waiting for a thief and then taking advantage of it.

But I don't see what it should be thought of as Dressing Like a Newbie, when ICly its just dressing in normal clothes.

[Reverend Jeff]

Or, if you already got rid of the clothes, you could just buy some from whomever the thieves sell 'em to once they strip people nekkid.

Heh.

[Delirium]

Halaster says dressing up in newbie gear to sucker somebody is twinkish, and I agree.

Me three.

Nothing wrong with dressing down, to make yourself look weaker and less successful then you are

Whoever said that it didn't make much sense for people to dress down, I beg to differ. There could be all sorts of reasons. For a few brief examples off the top of my head - maybe you want to avoid being a prime target for raiders, thieves, or want people to dismiss you as unthreatening and/or weak, or all of the above.

[Agent_137]

or maybe your char doesn't want to spend money for nice clothes because he's fucking doesn't give a shit!

[Anonymous]

Yes, I'm posting anonymously.  Deal with it.

My character has worn practically nothing but newbie gear since his inception over a month ago.  Surprisingly, every time someone sees me in the wilderness, beyond the reach of the authorities, they instantly run without giving me the chance to even blink. I scare people in my newbie gear.  I have nothing to fear from other players, I might as well not even bother wielding a weapon, I am so fearsome in this outfit.

And no I'm not doing it to be twinkish, my character simply values his threads and is too cheap to buy more.  It's still funny though.  I have a relatively wussy sdesc and am clad in wussy gear and people scream and run frantically when I enter the room.  Though, I guess in fairness a lot of people don't even bother to look at me before they bolt, but still..

[My 2 sids]

My thought on this is that Newbie Gear is put in game mostly for OOC reasons.  Although, they should be thought of as perfectly acceptable,  newbie clothes basically always carry the idea of "new player" , an OOC thing.   It is the only thing we have that is close to a "school", a time for new players to learn about the game relatively safely.  Older players shouldn't take advantage of this by keeping their characters in newbie gear.  Even by adding a cloak or changing shoes it at leasts gives the impression that this is not a new player.

[Anonymous]

I still say that newbie clothes should be done away with for this exact purpose.

Put a copy of the north and south Kadian cloth sellers in the Hall of Kings, let people buy what they want, otherwise they show up naked and run to the bazaar.

No newbie clothes!

[Anonymous]

My thought on this is that Newbie Gear is put in game mostly for OOC reasons. Although, they should be thought of as perfectly acceptable, newbie clothes basically always carry the idea of "new player" , an OOC thing. It is the only thing we have that is close to a "school", a time for new players to learn about the game relatively safely. Older players shouldn't take advantage of this by keeping their characters in newbie gear. Even by adding a cloak or changing shoes it at leasts gives the impression that this is not a new player.

So, according to you then, wearing newbie gear once you are in-game is cheating?  That's a bit extreme.  If I start in Red Storm, I'll keep my damn webbed boots because of the climate, thank you very much.  And I may as well keep the rest of my gear if I feel like it too.  So what if other people make the assumption I am a newbie?  It's an OOC assumption that shouldn't affect your character anyway.

[Different Anon. Kank]

It's easy enough not to steal from a newbie. I can't believe people are just targeting newbies....LAME SHIT.

I did one time have to kill a newbie pc...it wasn't because they were a newbie I killed them however.  

I, as a player, didn't really want to and felt bad about it, but the newbie pc was pretty much begging to be killed treating my current pc at the time the way they were...he was supposed to be a completely cold-hearted killer type.

Something I will -not- do is to make my pc act OOC just because someone is a newbie.
From what I saw afterward, the player of the pc thanked me here on the board for letting them know how harsh Armageddon was and said that admittedly they knew what their pc was doing should've probably got them killed.

Yes, I agree whoreheartedly that preying on newbie pcs -just- because they are newbie pcs is completely bullshit and abuse of OOC info.

I also believe at the same time, that others shouldn't act OOCly to save a newbie from possible consequences of their actions either...I believe this gives them a false impression of the gameworld and contributes to whining when they must pay the consequences for their pc's actions in the future.
Also, acting OOCly with your character is just bad rp (no matter what the reasoning, IMHO).

I think doing something to make huge variations in the starting clothes someone might have would be a damned good idea. It would help prevent praying on newbies -and- the assumption that if you do something to a newbie pc ICly that it is -because- they are a newbie.

[My 2 sids]

So, according to you then, wearing newbie gear once you are in-game is cheating? That's a bit extreme. If I start in Red Storm, I'll keep my damn webbed boots because of the climate, thank you very much. And I may as well keep the rest of my gear if I feel like it too.

No, let me try to explain further.  I don't mean junk everything, but I do think people should add or take away a bit of the newbie gear when possible.  

So what if other people make the assumption I am a newbie? It's an OOC assumption that shouldn't affect your character anyway.

The fact is, we -want- people to have that OOC assumption.  I'm not saying making "false" nice, but there is something to be said about not frighting away every new player with harsh realism.  We can't have it both ways.  We can't expand our player base to GOOD players (but who may just need a little while to get used to things) And then offer no help or no chance.

[Armaddict]

As I understand it, newbie clothes are given to you to wear until you use your newbie money to find something to replace it, based on your background.  While I don't think that means that you have to get rid of and junk all your newbie gear, I think -staying- in your newbie gear is a cheap way of looking new so that older PC's in a rough atmosphere will leave you alone.  It's preying on their good-nature towards a new characters.  You're taking thoughts on an OOC subject, and using it to keep your character out of bad situations that wouldn't happen to a brand new character.

I can see keeping a couple pieces, though.  For example, those boots you were talking about.  But I think that other pieces would have to be bought to meet those climate requirements, as well.  Thus eliminating the newbie look.

[amoeba]

I also believe at the same time, that others shouldn't act OOCly to save a newbie from possible consequences of their actions either...I believe this gives them a false impression of the gameworld and contributes to whining when they must pay the consequences for their pc's actions in the future.

While I agree with you 99% of the way, I think there is a fine line in one situation.  First we should define newbie.  In this context it's someone who just started the mud and is less than a couple of hours old. IMHO if you can get through the first hour intact, you're on your own. However, -some- newbies need a -minor- amount of direction. I think this can be handled quite well IC.  

Point in case, You are sitting in sanctuary and you see a PC bouncing from room to room.  -Obviously- this is a total newbie regardless of clothes.  

You could
 A) Do nothing.  
 B) ooc type leave
 C) Tell the PC "You look a bit confused, do you need any help?" / "Hey numnuts, don't you know how the fekk to get out of a building?"

Don't spoon feed them, don't give them any advantage a character starting on his 10th newbie character doesn't have. Why in the hell do it at all? Well -some- newbies need a little IC interaction to get moving.  This does not need to be done in a nice, warm and fuzzy way.. You can be harsh, as long as you give them the same level of information, and interaction. You can help them move forward, without "helping" them.

On a side note..please, please do this with IC means as much as is possible and try to squelch any ooc communication.  Nothing worse than a lengthy ooc conversation, for whatever the reasons, however well intentioned.   I've seen this a couple of times, please don't.

[jmordetsky]

I still say that newbie clothes should be done away with for this exact purpose.

Put a copy of the north and south Kadian cloth sellers in the Hall of Kings, let people buy what they want, otherwise they show up naked and run to the bazaar.

No newbie clothes!

Agreed. Not only for this reason, but I hate recognizing n00bs as n00bs. They should blend. Not everyone in Allanak should have Chalton leather boots!

[jstorrie]

Dressing down in an IC way by wearing shabby clothes is fine.

Dressing down in an OOC way by wearing the 'newbie set' is acting out of character, and you shouldn't do it.

S'pretty simple.