Movement loss in combat

[Delerak]

I've always though this as being needed.  It has a lot of pluses, and would make sense.  This way you can't spar for unrealistic amounts of time (hours at a time) or fight a bahamet for 3 ic days straight.  If you're movement got low enough you would collapse, start losing stun? I don't know I just think it would be a great addition to the combat system, to lose movement each round of combat, dependant of couse on your skill in whatever weapon you're using.  (less in unarmed) And also if you're weighed down it should take more, and I think kick, disarm, and bash should take movement, even if you fail (again dependant on your skill with it.) 1 movement maybe for each skill and each round 1 movement or so, I don't know, I think it could be balanced pretty good.  Thoughts?

[Samoa]

This is akin to how things are handled in LPmuds with 'fatigue' points.  I think this makes perfect sense, however, the current speed that endurance is regenerated is currently too slow for this to be a likely addition to combat; perhaps there should instead be an invisible statistical counter that the player cannot see, that will increase and decrease over time, as combat either happens or doesn't.  It would infer its own set of penalties, that the player would not be aware of, if it was decreased.  This seems more likely.

[Angela Christine]

Only if it affects NPCs too.


Angela Christine

[Carnage]

I think it could be balanced pretty good. Thoughts?

How? It's basically making combat even crappier. Now what about the ranger off to kill game? That's screwing him over, because now he'll have to rest for fifteen minutes to regen just a BIT of stamina.

If this gets implemented, then I want to see my max stamina going up every time I fight or walk a lot, because I'm training my body for endurance.

This way you can't spar for unrealistic amounts of time (hours at a time) or fight a bahamet for 3 ic days straight.

That's the code's fault for making time go by uber fast.

Your goal seems to want to be reducing twinking. Let's say I'm in the Byn. I'll 'til 60 HP out of 100 with 128/128 MV. It takes me five minutes to regen everything. The HP, and the MV. Now we spar again, and this time I'm down to 60 HP with 70/128 MV because your code idea was implemented. Still takes me five minutes to regen everything, because MV is regenerated at a super fast rate when your indoors or wherever.

This won't be even touching twinking. This is just going to be another pain in the ass, that's only going to succeed in making combat a chore. I'm dead against it.

[Delerak]

I think it could be balanced pretty good. Thoughts?

How? It's basically making combat even crappier. Now what about the ranger off to kill game? That's screwing him over, because now he'll have to rest for fifteen minutes to regen just a BIT of stamina.

If this gets implemented, then I want to see my max stamina going up every time I fight or walk a lot, because I'm training my body for endurance.

DUDE, RANGERS! They would be unaffected by this because of mounted combat, which I think needs some tweaking.

[Lazloth]

DUDE, RANGERS! They would be unaffected by this because of mounted combat, which I think needs some tweaking.

..not to mention archery.

The above idea has a decent amount of merit, imho.  I would prefer tapping something other than movement points, but all things are possible.

[Delerak]

DUDE, RANGERS! They would be unaffected by this because of mounted combat, which I think needs some tweaking.

..not to mention archery.

The above idea has a decent amount of merit, imho.  I would prefer tapping something other than movement points, but all things are possible.

Thanks Lazloth.   :shock:

[Samoa]

DUDE, RANGERS! They would be unaffected by this because of mounted combat, which I think needs some tweaking.

..not to mention archery.

The above idea has a decent amount of merit, imho.  I would prefer tapping something other than movement points, but all things are possible.

Like my idea.  Which nobody mentioned :(.
I'm going to cry.

[Carnage]

Not all rangers use mounts. I wasn't referring to the ranger class, either, as much as the ranger/hunter archetype.

What are the pluses to this? I really can't see any. You're just screwing over combat. There's a fine line between fun vs. mechanics, and I think this is something that steps over it.

[Delerak]

Not all rangers use mounts. I wasn't referring to the ranger class, either, as much as the ranger/hunter archetype.

What are the pluses to this? I really can't see any. You're just screwing over combat. There's a fine line between fun vs. mechanics, and I think this is something that steps over it.

-What are the pluses to losing hp in combat? Losing stun from clubs and fists?  You really make no true point why losing movement is any different.

[Carnage]

It has a lot of pluses, and would make sense

-What are the pluses to losing hp in combat? Losing stun from clubs and fists? You really make no true point why losing movement is any different.

Pardon?

Your idea is going to succeed in the following: Unneccesarily making the game less fun. It accomplishes the following: scaring off newbies, and making players lament being combat classes. The idea adds nothing to the game except some rueful 'realism'. If we want to go by that, then hey, let's go by my realism idea too: Bringing up stamina one point after every fight. It's realistic, because you'd slowly get have better endurance for that type of fighting, right?

No. Ask yourself: why is this needed? I really want to know. I think the combat system works as good as it's going to get. Why is losing MV points and nerfing players needed?

You've asked for opinions, and here you have it. I disagree.

[Guestboy]

Indeed, agree with everything Cranage said, it's obvious he has actually given some thought to the question as opposed to coming up with just another annoying code idea that will simply make the game experience harder and less enjoyable.

[the halfling]

that will simply make the game experience harder and less enjoyable.

Some of us like things to be harder though.
Punish us!

If you want things to be easy, just go special app for a noble or something ;)  That's a joke by the way.

[nakrat]

The idea has two sides to it.

One: It'll make the game more realistic, and armageddon being an rp mud, its supposed to be realistic.

Two: It will make it harder in combat, but people will just have to limit themselves with their hunting/fighting, like in real life.

I dont think it would be a good idea to minus 1 mp per round, maybe 1 every few rounds or so.

It is a good idea, but I think too many people like it the way it is, and twink fighters/rangers will absolutely hate it....no more ic week hunting trips  :lol:

[Guestboy]

The minute someone mentions twinks not liking it, there's a good chance it's a bad idea. That tends to be the last resort of those who don't have other arguments to employ. :lol:

By the way, there is nothing wrong with a week-long hunting expedition, as long as regular stops are taken, rests are role-played, etc. Indeed, most hunting expeditions in pre-industrial society took weeks or a month of roughing it, going abroad to look for prey and bringing back as much as possible for profit, sustenance. Fishing STILL takes weeks in some cases. And, on Armageddon, these expeditions are good fun in terms of RP and excitement, whether they are done in larger groups or just one or two people. There is no reason whatsoever to knock them as twinkish.

Carnage has already pointed out why the suggestion does nothing to deter twinks anyway. When I say this would make things harder, I mean more OOC than IC. Give me the dust, you can keep your nobles!

[nakrat]

Im serious, it's easy for twinks to exploit the combat system now, to go into a killing frenzy, kill anything weak without stopping for rest or anything. With this idea, they'd have to stop.

And what I meant by week long hunting expeditions is just one long trip. No sleep, no rest or nuthin, just runnin' around killin stuff for whatever reason with no regard for time.

It is a good ic idea, greatly enhancing realism imo. How often do you see boxers going for for a whole match without resting, or without getting tired? Never! They're always sweating their asses off, and are exhausted by the end of the match.  This idea would show this in the game.

Im not all for it, it does have it's downsides, but all in all, im more in favour than not, and I think Delerak has also put some thought into it.

[creeper386]

I personally think that the line between realism and playability isn't in one solid place and is always moving around from subject to subject, but on this subject I think goes alot more towards making the game harder to play then adding any useful realism.

If people are going on IC week long trips with no rest or anything, they probably have a WHOLE lot of stamina in the first place, I know my character couldn't walk in the city for anything close to a week without stopping for rest.

Also I hardly would say that sparring and such is so INCREDIBLY bad, that everyone spars for days and days on end, for one, I have yet to see someone that does that, and know that most the established clans frown on long sparring. I see people sparring for a long period and making these "week long" hunting trips, as more something to fix not with code but acctually solving the problem.

With this code in, you well just have those "twinks" on the "week long" hunting trips, or the days on end sparring, stopping and resting up and then starting right again, then there well be another proposition to make things EVEN HARDER just to stop that from happening.

I want to know what IC circles you run in and how you people get so good at this game to say it's so drastically easy and lets make it alot more harder. Most my time playing if I'm not in an established clan, is spent keeping food and water in my character, and even when I start getting well enough off to try and acctually do something that requires skills, I find even if your a long time player, you are hardly ever completely skilled enough to do anything easiely.

Maybe I haven't played long enough to find all the ins and outs to play nice and easy and think up ways to make the game harder for every one else, but it seems to me this would do nothing to hinder munchkinism(Twinking out in internet gaming) and just make the game harder for every one that is trying to play the game, and likes having a combat oriented character some of the time.

8)Creeper

[Summer]

I kinda like it, but I kinda don't. Perhaps if your encumberance was above manageable something like this could happen, but it shouldn't be move, it should be something else.  Overall though, I don't think it is necessary.

[Callisto]

Pardon?

I'm really starting to like this guy.

Carnage hit the nail square on the head with his post - its just another added bit of 'realisim' that would take more away from the game then it would add. Nice to see people posting more ideas though, as it keeps me motivated to check the GDB every few days.

I miss the old GDB, which was SO much easier to check on a daily basis  :cry:

[Lazloth]

I miss the old GDB, which was SO much easier to check on a daily basis

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/search.php?search_id=newposts

[Carnage]

I agree. Please, keep posting ideas. Just because people don't agree doesn't mean the idea is worthless or that your next ones will be.

As for twinks, I think we're really getting ahead of ourselves. Twinks tend not to last very long, for starters. Second, it should be easy enough for immortals to notice them and third, they very seldom affect your gameplay

[Anonymous]

True, twinks get stamped out pretty quickly, and they don't seem to last for long, hopefully seeing that its more fun to not be a twink than to be one  

It probably would detract from gameplay a bit, but if realism is what your after, its realism your getting. When you think about the idea, comparing what it would do to combat in the game to make it seem like it is in real life, it goes a long way.

But I do like the combat system how it is, so im not to upset if people disagree. It would be good to get a staff member to comment on the idea as well, would be cool.

[nakrat]

By the way, that last post was mine, I just forgot to log in  :roll:

[Angela Christine]

With this code in, you well just have those "twinks" on the "week long" hunting trips, or the days on end sparring, stopping and resting up and then starting right again, then there well be another proposition to make things EVEN HARDER just to stop that from happening.

I agree.  There may be twink hunters, heck, I may even have been one since I'm not sure what would be involved in being a twink hunter.  I mean, I've had half-elves that stayed out of town for a week or more at a time, partly because that sort of foolhardy independance is what half-elves are known for.  On the other hand, I've never hunted things much bigger than tregils, I've fought the occassional scrab but only because the scrab started it.     Anyway, assume there are hunters out there who are staying out in the wastes for weeks at a time, and coming home with a bag full of hides.  So what?

No, really, what harm does it do?  Does the existance of an unrealistic number of rugged outdoorsy types substantially detract from anyone elses RP experience?  If your character is urban you might prefer to have more city-dwellers, but making it harder for hunters to spend time hunting outside the city will not create more city-dwellers.  If you want to play the ranger/woodsman/moutainman/hunter archtype, having the code force you to spend 90% of your time in the city won't convince you to play a political urban character instead.  Playing the kind of role they like for a while (a few months or years) will get them into the groove of Armageddon, and when they eventually get bored with playing lone rangers they may try other kinds of roles.  Maybe with several characters over the years they've heard some strange things about House Howdydo, so they finally break down and create a non-combat urban character just so they can join House Howdydo and find out what the fuss is about.  

Likewise, Sir Sparsalot isn't really hurting anyone.  If he likes to spar a lot, and has some friends that like to spar a lot, so they spend a lot of time out of sight sparring then he probably isn't adding much to the world.  But he isn't taking anything away from it either.  He is doing what he considers fun, and the fact that he is doing that instead of toadying around the Trader's Inn doesn't hurt your experience at all.  Now if he uses his months of non-stop sparring to get really buff and then has his character suddenly stop sparring and turn raider or crazed mass-murderer for no apparent reason (other than the fact that he is now buff enough to kill many other PCs and NPCs) then that is poor RP that hurts the world, and I assume the staff will smack him.

If someone plays a dedicated or obsessive stone crafter who spends nearly every waking moment foraging for stone, crafting the stone, or selling the stone products, then he will probably be considered a crafting twink.  A crafter can produce an unrealistic bounty of finished goods if they want to, and therefore earn an unrealistic amount of coin from selling their goods.  So what?  If typing "craft stone into chunky stone vase" dozens of times is how they get their jollies, I say let 'em.  While he's running around selling things he will get plenty of chances to observe other people RPing less code-dependent roles, and eventually he may decide that it looks like more fun than typing "craft stone into stone vase" again.  In the mean time, he isn't preventing anyone from enjoying the style of RP they prefer.  He is a minor annoyance to other stone crafters, but that can be handled IC.

I don't spend too much time worrying about twinks.  Twinking may give some players an unrealistic advantage (like extra buffness or extra money) but it doesn't stop me from playing a poor, dirty 'rinther who can't tie his shoes much less weave a basket, yet knows more secrets than the average templar, or from playing a fawning, boot-licking noble's lacky who is secretly plotting to kill off half the senate.  Sometimes you want a break from unskilled beggers and nobles, and play a character who does rely on coded skills or takes unrealistic risks -- I suppose you could go play a H&S game when the urge to whack things hits, but that wouldn't improve Armageddon either.  Having a H&Sish roles available lets players blow of some steam without hurting those who prefer purely social RP.  Let 'em have their fun.

Angela Christine

[the halfling]

Why I like the idea has nothing to do with twinks.
I generally agree with AC's post.
My only exception, is twinks can be very harmful though.  They have a nasty habbit of multiplying in muds.  And the problem comes when a newer players start to see their habbits, and think it is okay to do it.
The learning from others can go both ways.
But I do not have hatred for anyone here,  too much energy :)

But the truth is, you can never get rid of people who don't Rp completly, though I don't know where these people are, cause honestly I find the RP on arm being so high.

My problem with people have always been Mr. Knowitall.  The guy who isn't a crafter but happens to know everything about it.  Those are the ones that annoy me(I don't know if you can call them twinks though), not the ones who spar all day, cause like AC said they aren't harming anyone.. most of the time.

But anyways making things harsher has nothing to do with getting rid of twinks though. Not to mention I'm unsure what the solid definition people give when they yell twink.  To me it just means someone who does something with no RP.  Like leading big bad beasties to town to get the guards to kill them.
But whatever, last time I checked I'm not on the twink police squad.

This idea just makes sense.  Which is why I like it.
You lose movement for foraging.
But dont' for combat.