Seeing farther

[Teleri]

While reflecting on both the ranger class and the desert-elf race, it occured to me that perhaps both should have another ability making them more useful.  What I suggest is to give both of these the ability to see further in sandstorms, by one room, depending on the degree of the sandstorm.

For instance, if the sandstorm limits most characters' vision to 2 squares, then the ranger/d-elf should be able to see 3 squares ahead.  If the sandstorm is limiting to 1 square, then the ranger/d-elf should be able to see 2 squares ahead.  However, if the sandstorm blocks out vision to all but the immediate square, then the ranger/d-elf effect is nulled.  This would, of course, take effect in only outdoor areas.

My reasoning for this is simple:  rangers and desert elves are far more used to sandstorms and navigating in them.  They would be able to use small landmarks to orient themselves from what they could see, and perhaps their eyes are just far better than those unaccustomed to the desert life.  I believe that this ability would be beneficial to the rangers, and to those who employ them, for they would be able to avoid danger or see potential prey/landmarks even in a sandstorm.  This would make the class more useful in navigating outside the cities, and might open up more employment opportunities for them.  

So, any thoughts?  Comments?  I apologize if this ability is already in effect, and I've just never noticed it before.

[WhiteRanger]

I like this idea very much....kudoes for having a sharp mind.

[Larrath]

Vote nay.

A sandstorm in the desert, especially a stronger one, is basically one enormous cloud of sand and dust that flies at great speed.

It's almost like looking through a wall of sand.  While you could codedly say that your character can see ten cords ahead instead of just three, you are not going to increase your visibility by one league.

And as for desert elves/rangers being more used to sandstorms...the only thing a realistic desert elf/ranger would do during a sandstorm is get in the opposite direction as fast as possible while seeking any sort of shelter.


The city states at least have some buildings and walls and other things to block some of the sand or slow it down...but out in the open sands, if you get in a sandstorm, the most realistic thing to do would be to run the hell away and look for a cave or some destroyed wagon or something to hide under.

[JollyGreenGiant]

I voted neither, but it bears some explanation.  I'm not certain that rangers really need yet another addition to their long list of abilities.  In addtion to a very broad variety of skills, rangers are already the only class that can: both wield and hold something while riding, hitch multiple mounts, forage for food, and quit in a greater number of locations outdoors.  Similarly, desert elves have a number of coded advantages, but since I couldn't find them in the documentation, I won't list out what they are.

I don't think the idea of somehow being able to see farther in a sandstorm is necessarily a bad one, but I'd rather see it attached to an item, such as sunslits, than restricted to a certain race or class.

[jhunter]

On the subject of seeing farther though...I did send an idea for a spyglass tool.

hold spyglass

You hold a leather-tubed spyglass.

use spyglass east

You peer through the spyglass to the east.

[near]

Not much.

[far]

A hooded figure in a sandy-colored cloak is standing here.

[very far]

Not shit.

[extremely far]

Jack shit.

[way far out]

A pair of enormous shelled creatures trample the grasses as they go at it wildly, odd-colored liquids flying through the air around them.

think Hrrrmmm...best avoid that area.

[My 2 sids]

If this would come into place I'd say elves only (make it part of the race, not the life-style)

Or, why not make this connected with sun-glasses or headgear?

[jmordetsky]

I think D-elfs being better adapted for survival in the desert would have evolved the ability to see better in the high winds along with enhanced movement abilities.


The spy glass idea is coolness, but on clear days only. Shouldn't enhance your ability to see in low vis.

[Dresan]

I've always thought that in the wilds only rangers, hunter and a few other subclasses (and desert elves and other desert creature) should be able to see the third room (very far)...everyone else should see two since they are used to the city and not used to see through the wind and blowing sand that must exist even on the clearest days.  This would also make them more valuable as guides.

[Agent_137]

taking away abilities piss people off.

I'm in favor of the status quo on this issue.

[Anonymous]

Seeing further in high sands would require some sort of psionic enhancement to your sight, or something, so I really don't think this idea is fitting.

[Agent_137]

i could see elves having better sight in general, like, in clear weather, can see an extra league. But like some one said, they sound like they've a lot of advantages already.

(I wouldn't know first hand.)

[forest imp]

I could se the argument of being able to see further while within a city, but out in the wilds? No. If each room in the wild is roughly a league, then seeing 4 rooms away would be akin to seeing roughly 10-12 miles. Even if you could see that far, how much detail could anyone, even an elf or a ranger, see? And in bad weather, I don't understand justifying being able to see in the blowing sand any better than anyone else. Blowing sand is just that, and can create a definite wall effect, that's exceptionally dificult to pierce with vision. Even for someone that's used to it. Granted, I've little to no experience with the RL workings of a sandstorm, but I do have quite a bit of knowledge dealing with blowing snow, and white-out conditions. I think the situation would be similar.

[Larrath]

Go to a flat desert once and stare in one direction.

You're going to be able to see REALLY far.


The most important reason why I do not want rangers/hunters/delves to be able to see further in sandstorms is because this will make sandstorms ignored even more, which is just a bad and unrealistic thing.

"Do you want to ride out?".
"But there's a sandstorm starting!".
"Don't worry about it, mate, I've got me a good pair of eyes...".

Bad, bad, bad.  If anything, make sandstorms in the deserts -worse-.

[Tamarin]

rangers are already sick, sick killing machines.  Let's try and avoid this, I think.

[Teleri]

I have seriously yet to see a ranger who is a passable near-survivor, much less a "sick, sick killing machine".  

I understand that seeing in a sandstorm is very hard, and quite impossible for our human eyes.  However, the desert-elves are certainly not human, and so I think they would be quite adept at seeing potential prey/danger better (further away) in such sandstorms.  Rangers are, ideally, similarly conditioned and probably have developed different tactics to achieve the same result.  

Also, given some of the other abilities of a ranger not covered in the documentation, I think that if this suggestion is too unrealistic, than those others should be removed.  I understand that these people aren't supermen, but  they're definitely harshly conditioned and adapted to travel/sight in open sandstorm conditions.

[jhunter]

The spy glass idea is coolness, but on clear days only. Shouldn't enhance your ability to see in low vis.

Oh yeah, totally I never meant it as otherwise. Just this thread reminded me of it...I wonder if it will ever happen or if it can be done...

I voted neither by the way. I see no reason why any one type of pc should be able to see better through blowing sands than another.

[X-D]

I have seriously yet to see a ranger who is a passable near-survivor, much less a "sick, sick killing machine".

Ha..I love players like that, makes it easier on my rangers to kill their chars.

A ranger, like any of the top 3 combat classes can become sick sick killing machines, funny thing is, by the time they do, most people think they are warriors or assassins...grin.

And I voted neither, no reason why anybody would be able to see through blowing dirt/sand without magick.

[Tamarin]

I have seriously yet to see a ranger who is a passable near-survivor, much less a "sick, sick killing machine".

You obviously haven't seen a 50-60 day ranger with maxxed skills.

[Bestatte]

There is nothing different about a ranger's or desert elf's eyes that can let them be capable of avoiding sand being whipped into them.

No matter how well they can see, if they have 20/20 vision and the rest of the known world does not..it just makes no sense for their ability to see to NOT be useless when there's a sandstorm whipping around their faces.

What they -are- able to do, that others might not be able to do, is know how to avoid getting stuck in the storm in the first place, and be able to maneuver their way through the storm itself far better than any normal city grebber could. The code already allows for this to some extent as far as I know, and I feel that's sufficient.

[Angela Christine]

Elves are human.

[Vettrock]

Elves are human.

ummm...huh?
Last time I checked on Zalanthas, elves were elves, men were men, and the kanks were scared....er....
Well the elves being elves part is true at least...

[Tamarin]

Yeah, I would have to say that elves are definitely not human.  I would go so far as to think that dwarves have shitty eyesight (maybe 2 rooms), humans have average eyesight (3 rooms), and elves can potentially have very good eyesight (4 rooms in the desert for d-elves, 4 rooms in the city for city elves).

[Angela Christine]

Humans and elves can interbreed, and their offspring are fertile with either parent species and eachother.  That is pretty much the standard criteria for being the same species.  I suppose you could make the arguement that they are seperate subspecies of Homo Sapiens, but I've always thought subspiecies were a cop out.

For elves how about:

Homo Sapiens Concurso -- with training an elf can learn to run about and rush to and fro exceptionally well.  
(concurso -are [to run about, rush to and fro])  

For Zalanthan humans I sugest that their defining characterist, the thing that makes them different from other Zalanthan humanoids and Terran humans, is their potential to become psionicists (and therefore also sorcerer kings, who need to be very skilled in both sorcery and psionics).  So I recomend one of these:

Homo Sapiens Incursus
(incursus -us m. [an attack , assault]; of the mind, [efforts, impulses].)

Homo Sapiens Cogito
(cogito -are [to turn over in the mind, to think, reflect])

Homo Sapiens Veneficus
(veneficus -a -um [poisonous, magical]; m. as subst. [a poisoner, sorcerer; a sorceress, witch].)  

[/derailment]


I doubt either of them has exceptional eyesight.  More likely adaptations would be heavy eyebrows and eyelashes or a transparent inner eyelid to protect the eye from dust and sand, and niether of those would actually improve vision, merely preserve it.


AC

[Carnage]

The spy glass idea is coolness, but on clear days only. Shouldn't enhance your ability to see in low vis.

Oh yeah, totally I never meant it as otherwise. Just this thread reminded me of it...I wonder if it will ever happen or if it can be done...

I voted neither by the way. I see no reason why any one type of pc should be able to see better through blowing sands than another.

According to Nessalin, the 'spy glass' idea doesn't fit into the game. But spectacles do.

[Pantoufle]

One of my biggest pet peeves about Arm is the way new concepts are introduced into the MUD.  When it was decided elves were an oppressed people, subject to racism from the dominant humans, it went from night to day in the blink of an eye.  The once elven market in the bazaar of Allanak vanished completely without explanation; it didn't blow up, nobody stripped it down, it just vanished.  There wasn't any roleplay to indicate the race of elves were gradually becoming more oppressed.  It just happened.  And we all had to pretend like this was the way things always were.

When Old Tuluk/the Northlands became "New Tuluk", all of a sudden these new customs and traditions were implemented instantaneously.  It's nice to flesh out details and develop concepts, but all of a sudden we had to assume this is the way things have always been.  All of a sudden,  the people of Tuluk were becoming emblazoned in tattoos, under the notion that this is the way of our people.  Well, I can tell you that when I had characters in Old Tuluk, there were no Tuluki caste tattoos.  A couple NPC commoners had descriptions of a few tattoos vaguely similar to the caste tattoos of today.  Their MDescs said something to the effect of "...covered in the purple and blue tattoos typical of the people of this region..." or something like that.  And from there the idea expanded, which is fine, it's a neat idea in and of itself.  But I can tell you right now, this is not how things have always been.

If you allow elves or rangers to suddenly see farther than they previously could, how will you explain the past?  Did the race of elves suddenly evolve overnight?  Has there been some sort of genetic change to the bloodline?  How will you explain that in the past elves could only see as far as a human but today they suddenly have enhanced vision?