'strike'

[jmordetsky]

I'd like to see a strike command that allowed a player to execute one combat roll to hit against another player, without neccessarily entering into a full combat scenario.

I can see this being useful in training, interogations, and just general RP.

The command when used inside the city would incriminate, and if used on an npc might cause the npc to 'kill' attacker rather then 'strike' back.

Would be a lot like the universal 'hit' I'm fiending for, but would allow a weapon attack.

[sarahjc]

I like it, I think everyone can agree that the combat Rp in the game is lacking, and not because of poor Role Players, but because of the fear in Permadeath and because of the scrolling factor. There is just no way you can keep up with the attack code unless you are super typer. And by the time you are getting out that emote, you need to type flee because you are about to die.

I like the idea of a strike command, However I think there should be a certain amount of strikes before you are locked in an attack or better, have strikes just do more damage than the usual attack.  I don't know about you, but if I am getting slashed on the neck ten times, my head should be on the floor. Strike would allow time for emotes, so the fight could last as long and the damage done with each blow would add real detail as to what happens.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I dig.

[jmordetsky]

I think it would rock for interogations.....

Right now:
Player 1: Tell me you mother's maiden name.

Player 2: No.

Player 1: Emote - kicking you in the head

Player 2: Think - hahaha emote away jack ass....I'm telling you anything.

Player 1: Think - I'm just emoting away like a jack ass...let me teach this guy a lesson....

Player 1: Kill Player 2

Player 1: Thing - Oh no...I can't stop...I guess I'll run a league away! Flee!

Player 2- Think - I'm outty.

With Strike:
Player 1: Tell me you mother's maiden name.

Player 2: No.

Player 1: Emote - kicking you in the head

Player 1: Strike Player Two

Player 2: Think - Ahhh! Where are my precious hit points!

Player 2: It's Smith! It's Smith! Don't kill me! We  have permadeath!

[Anonymous]

Really, really good idea so long as there was sufficient delay in it to prevent the game turning into achaea style combat.

[jmordetsky]

Whats the achaea style of combat?

[Agent_137]

Good call crw. Could add a delay that makes it less efficient for killing than regular "kill."

Then, you'd be golden. No one would want to use it in -serious- killing business, just to codedly back up RP.

Please?

[Bug]

Great idea. CAn be used to anything ranging form intimidation to simply fooling around (hey, its just a friendly cut on your neck, blood is cool)

[Armaddict]

Erm, so half-giants can just use this with a two-handed weapon to get around their low agility?

[Anonymous]

Whats the achaea style of combat?

You type in every attack.  Last time I played it, as I recall, the end result is that a faster connection and better macros or faster typing is a clear advantage in their PvP.

[sarahjc]

Erm, so half-giants can just use this with a two-handed weapon to get around their low agility?

No, Because the half giant would have the same chance of taking thier swing as they would if they did not have the delay. Maybe you combine agility in the chance of hitting someone with this.

[wizturbo]

Great idea.

[Dakkon Black]

This would be so wonderful.

[Gilvar]

I would like it under the stipulation it has the same lag as intiating combat. I can see some lovely 'strike man;strike man;strike man;run;n;n;n' going on.

Maybe some other precautions to prevent abuse, which is usually a main concern when adding a new/different command, since things are always abused when they can be.

[Xan]

Great idea.  I think if it was designed to only hit if nosave was on it might end up being alot more balanced.  In torture you can always ask for ooc to be on, otherwise this command might be too abusable.  Especially with weapons if code checked for poisons auto-magickally...ya it could get lame.

[Forest Junkie]

I like the concept. It's nifty.

[jmordetsky]

I'm thinking if nosave is on, auto hit...

If nosave is off, it's a normal hit roll.

A delay would def be needed....

[Lazloth]

Something similar exists ingame already; this is nothing novel.  I'm sure the code can be applied.

[sjanimal]

Heck yeah, that's awesome.

[Kalden]

I don't like it too much. With nosave on, sure(I guess), or if subdued and maybe sitting.

Seems to me that lots of combat will just end up starting with a "strike", giving a free hit. Idle people can be "striked" to death(horribly twinkish, but very possible). Mobs will often get "striked". Then they'd all have to be designed to attack once struck. Or am I missing something?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

If lots of combat will start with that, why doesn't everyone whip everyone to death right now? For God's sake, show the players a little fucking trust.

[Kalden]

If lots of combat will start with that, why doesn't everyone whip everyone to death right now? For God's sake, show the players a little fucking trust.

Never heard of the fucking 'whip' command. I don't play warriors too much. Can you really not think of the reasons why whip isn't used all the time?

[Agent_137]

i'm with venomz.

Make it far less efficient than actual fighting for killing some one (through delay, reduced damage, whatver), and you're golden. The only real potential for abuse would be striking idle players to death. Now while that's horrible-dock-9-points-of-karma behavior, I also don't feel too bad for that idled player.

[Kalden]

I honestly don't get the point. Emoting it out and playing it out is SO MUCH BETTER. HP damage is superficial and petty, especially if it's weakened.

If someone is at your mercy, torture them, cut off their limbs, gouge out their eyes, whatever. Send the log and the IMMs will probably add it to your victim's description. They can't pretend it didn't happen.

[Bug]

Might aswell kick/kill/backstab/shoot the idle player. They're idle, easier targets. If you're a twink, just attack, flee, sleep, back, repeat.

Still, while its nice to say "trust the players" the sad fact is that its not very often you see a good roleplayer in the world wide net. Giving it a big delay would do, though.

[Agent_137]

I honestly don't get the point. Emoting it out and playing it out is SO MUCH BETTER. HP damage is superficial and petty, especially if it's weakened.

If someone is at your mercy, torture them, cut off their limbs, gouge out their eyes, whatever. Send the log and the IMMs will probably add it to your victim's description. They can't pretend it didn't happen.

MUD vs. MUSH

I'd like to see the code. Maybe just a personal thing. I don't want to have to email the mud account when I bitch slap some one I'm raiding, or punch some runner in the face.

[sarahjc]

Thing is, it is coded, just not the auto scrolling fight, the idea is to give the players a chance to act out the scene, suported by the code. With fighting as stands now that is a bit difficult. I don't think the ordinary fighting code should be taken out, but I would like to see it as an alternate option. This is a role play mud, so some roleplaying during fight scenes would be nice. I think should it be implimented, you would have more people using this style of fighting and not the other..


I mean, just think how -much- cooler arena events would be.. Torture scenes, raiding scenes.. sparring. No more I can't tell what the hell is going on HRPT's.  It really puts the fight in the hands of the players and allows the code to tell you what the outcome was, but the story stays with the players in the actual fighting.

It beats:

The blankety blank thing slashes at you, but you dodge  out of the way
The blankety blank thing slashes at you, but you dodge out of the way

You strink the blankety blank thing lightly on it's neck nicking it
You attempt to strink the blankety blank thing but if defely avoids your attack

Ten more lines of fighting in the next twenty seconds:


Instead you could have a chance to do something like:

:circles to the left of the blankety blank thing, quickly wiping the blood from his brow before taking a few steps in and striking at ^blankety chest.

Strike Blankety chest

Followed by a coded attack, and then you would have that person have a chance at it.


What I also think would be cool, would be to have the person who is having the most damage done to them, lose there turn to fight more and more as the fight progresses. I mean in you are taking a beat down, you aren't going blow for blow with someone.

Just my thoughts

[Jacques]

Two ideas based on this concept (which I kinda like).

1) Make the strike command put both players into a "no quit" lag, similar to regular combat. So no "strike; n; quit" macros.

2) If, while that "no quit" lag is still up, someone else strikes the person (so you strike someone, and then he strikes you back), normal combat ensues.

[Anonymous]

I hate emoting out strikes because then you have scenes like:

The huge muscle-bound giant is standing here.
The tiny, limp-wristed merchant is here, tied to a chair.

The huge, muscle-bound half-giant hauls back to give a backhand to the tiny, limp-wristed merchant.

The tiny, limp-wristed merchant ducks his head, avoiding the huge, muscle-bound half-giant's slow swing.

Or, my favorite when the merchant takes the half-giants punch and laughs or looks on defiantly or spits on the half-giants face.

As was said in the beginning give 'strike' enough of a delay to make it inefficient to use as a start to combat.

[jmordetsky]

Two ideas based on this concept (which I kinda like).

1) Make the strike command put both players into a "no quit" lag, similar to regular combat. So no "strike; n; quit" macros.

2) If, while that "no quit" lag is still up, someone else strikes the person (so you strike someone, and then he strikes you back), normal combat ensues.

i'm with venomz.

Make it far less efficient than actual fighting for killing some one (through delay, reduced damage, whatver), and you're golden. The only real potential for abuse would be striking idle players to death. Now while that's horrible-dock-9-points-of-karma behavior, I also don't feel too bad for that idled player.

Both of these are very valid points. Reduced damage would be a must...as this is a roleplay tool not a method for killing. A no quit flag is also a must...

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Kalden, you did not know about the whip command because you'd never read the relevant help files, or, the posts on this board where it has been brought up before, or been with a player who used one, or something.

My point wasn't that your concern is invalid, but that everytime we say, "Hey, how about this?' somebody cries twinkable. Every fucking thing in the MUD is twinkable.

I am sure that if it were put in, it would be regulated correctly, and that it would be watched, just like every other command is watched for abuse.

[Agent_137]

My point wasn't that your concern is invalid, but that everytime we say, "Hey, how about this?' somebody cries twinkable. Every fucking thing in the MUD is twinkable.

Yes.

[WhiteRanger]

Im with 7DV on this one.

[WhiteRanger]

I would also like to see whips being worn over the shoulder, or sheathed across the back like a bow...something cool to that affect.

[Ghost]

Brilliant idea.  Provided that the sufficient delay and the normal crimcode is applied, it would be awesome.

[Kalden]

Kalden, you did not know about the whip command because you'd never read the relevant help files, or, the posts on this board where it has been brought up before, or been with a player who used one, or something.

Whether I knew it or not is beside the point. You evaded the question. The whip command isn't abused because:

1) It's not in the helpfiles.
2) Whipping skills are a branched skill.
3) It takes a while to get the branched skill high enough to use regularly.
4) Whips are rare.
5) Warriors that live that long are prudent.

But my biggest concern isn't that the command is twinkable. It's just that it's a weak "RP" tool.

Or, my favorite when the merchant takes the half-giants punch and laughs or looks on defiantly or spits on the half-giants face.

More likely(I've been in this sort of situation quite a few times):

The stumpy, beak-nosed templar strikes at the slim, spike-haired elf and misses!

The stumpy, beak-nosed templar strikes at the slim, spike-haired elf and misses!

...Five minutes later.

The slim, spike-haired elf strikes at the stumpy, beak-nosed templar!

The slim, spike-haired elf's bony knuckles slap across the stumpy, b eak-nosed templar's pudgy cheek in a blurry, lightning fast backhand.

The slim, spike-haired elf smirks, baring sharpened canines.

Lovely.  :lol:

With reduced damage and a long-ass delay, this would just be an opportunity for twinks to laugh.

"Hey, if you hit me like that for a few more hours, you might just kill me. Well? What's taking you so long? Fucking pussy." Heh. I'd laugh too. Reduced damage for no IC reason?

I wouldn't mind seeing a touch command, rolling opposing offense/defense and all that crap to see if you're fast enough to backhand someone, or tug their beard, or pull down their cowl. That would be a roleplaying tool.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Using the whip as a whip and not as a weapon requires no skill. And whips are not rare.

Using your example above, I am sure that the player would be spoken to by staff. But you know what else? Type kill after that player acts a fool, and guess what? It's even IC to do it!!! Yeah!!! Strike is to be used as a %^$&#**%&%! RP tool. NOT IN COMBAT.

And what bloody question?

[Kalden]

Using your example above, I am sure that the player would be spoken to by staff

You've got me scratching my head... nothing in my example was really bad play, except the Templar making a fool of himself.   :?:

I've never been subdued during my interrogations(though I easily could've been). Strike becomes pretty pointless if you're using it against a subdued person, though.  

2 damage for 5 seconds of delay? Woohoo! That adds a lot to an RP scene!

And what bloody question?

Why hasn't the 'whip' command been twinked? I already answered it, as did you, indirectly... nobody is gonna start something when they don't have skill in the weapon. But there sure as hell would be people 'striking' animals while wielding swords.

[Lazloth]

I've used a whip with more than one pc (without the skill!), and found it contributed to the scene(s) immensely.  I'm not completely sold on the 'strike' thing, but it would make sense to incorporate other weapon types and/or fists if a similar functionality already exists.

[Agent_137]

*flames kalden*

[Anonymous]

A few notes on whips:

1) Whips have thier own weapon type, this is true. However, that its hard to learn how to use them, or that it takes a long time to even learn them is (I believe), false. From what I can tell, it is, indeed, quite possible to become a master whip-user.

2) Whips are not rare.

3) As the link posted: to use a whip, the syntax is 'use whip'. You might find that you'll have an easier time, if your victim isn't squirming around, and running away from your lashes.

4) 'Using' a whip has a delay. 'Attacking' with a whip is exactly the same as attacking with any other weapon, however.

5) The coded use of whips does not lower your endurance. However, getting more than 10 lashes is very extensive damage, and can cause permenant damage. If your PC is sentanced to getting 10 lashes for doing something wrong...be very worried.

I highly encourage players to play some Indiana Jones type characters, and explore the vast world of 'whips' yourself. I've used whips on a number of occasions (pesky Runners), and they have alot of neat, extra effects. I definately think people should bust out the whips, and start flogging more peons as break the rules.

Not to completely derail the thread, but I just thought I'd post here, to help solve any 'whip' questions you might have. We should probably write a helpfile on them, heh.

Edit: Evidently, I got logged out as I was writing this. The poster is me: Tlaloc.

-Tlaloc

[Anonymous]

However, getting more than 10 lashes is very extensive damage, and can cause permenant damage.

I seem to recall the 'permanent damage' thing being debunked by an Imm about a year ago after a conversation came up about whips dealing permanent HP-max reduction but a half-giant's meat-cleaver chop to the head not.  A staffmember stated that there is no permanent whip damage, unless I'm mistaken.

[Tlaloc]

Again - the above Anonymous Kank was me.

There isn't, really. On the other hand: I don't see anything wrong with adding permenant disability to people who get thier arms almost chopped off by a half-giant, either.

However, thats just me.

Personally, I'd rather have the chance of permenant injury be there, to help people possibly RP the realism of how bad it is getting nearly whipped to death, or nearly brained by a half-giant. Half-giants are like mac-trucks that can use weapons...they should be treated with the same caution. Lashes are traumatic experiences, which flay the skin off your body. In both encounters, realistically, a body would suffer permenant damage.

Thats my personal view, of course. If you get in a fight with a half-giant, and don't suffer from a permenant, debilitating injury, then you should likely consider yourself lucky. The same for long-term lashes, encounters with magickers, sparring accidents, or torture sessions.

Does that make sense?

[Armaddict]

I've agreed with that for a very long time, Tlaloc.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Amen.

[jmordetsky]

Again - the above Anonymous Kank was me.

There isn't, really. On the other hand: I don't see anything wrong with adding permenant disability to people who get thier arms almost chopped off by a half-giant, either.

However, thats just me.

Personally, I'd rather have the chance of permenant injury be there, to help people possibly RP the realism of how bad it is getting nearly whipped to death, or nearly brained by a half-giant. Half-giants are like mac-trucks that can use weapons...they should be treated with the same caution. Lashes are traumatic experiences, which flay the skin off your body. In both encounters, realistically, a body would suffer permenant damage.

Thats my personal view, of course. If you get in a fight with a half-giant, and don't suffer from a permenant, debilitating injury, then you should likely consider yourself lucky. The same for long-term lashes, encounters with magickers, sparring accidents, or torture sessions.

Does that make sense?

Add scars and lower stun and stam by N% anytime a player goes below N% of their max.

That will stop [spar till near death]->[sleep] twinking as well.

[Shoka Windrunner]

Achaea Shizzle is actually set up now so that after typing an attack you lose your balance or equilibrium and have to wait for it to be regained before striking again.  So you can't uber spam kill something anymore.

But anyway.  Bah.  I hate that game anymore.