A little more harsh

[Anonymous]

Well, searched, nothing in the docs on actual speed, so, 40mph seems right, and not a danger, least not from the sand.

I don't follow your logic.  You didn't find an answer so your arbitrarily decided windspeed sounds right?  Why not just wait to see if the staff chimes in?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I've also been on a beach (lake erie and lake michigan) during 60mph sustained and 80mph gusts, the sand STINGS,

I might also note that the message 'stinging sands' is the lowest level of sandstorm in the game atm. If this follows your logic, then apparently the next two levels of storm are running into the 140-150 range? Just curious.

[Bedhead]

Weather

The two weather concerns of Zalanthans are the wind and the blowing sand which the wind drives. The wind can sometimes reach up to ninety miles per hour...

I found that in the docs.

http://www.armageddon.org/general/misc.html

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Gracias, Bedhead. Tu esta un bueno Amigo.

[Angela Christine]

But I will tell you now that if it runs a chance of happening every tick, there will be a LOT of those severe storms. Since Xygax has apparently perfected the time scheme and synchronization, I suggest finding a different trigger for the storms other than ticks.

1% per minute then, that would mean that on average a terrible storm would briefly mutate into a deadly storm roughly every two hours that the terrible storm continues.  This was just a rough outline off the top of my head.

In addition to this, all classes and races familiar with the desert should be proficent in a skill called shelter-crafting. A scrab-shell, for instance, could be made into a shelter. Some branchs could be lashed together. The classes might include nomad, ranger, and the races halfling and d-elf. Then again, maybe not. *shrug*

If you only took dammage while moving, then this wouldn't really be necessary.  You can just sit still and emote ducking under your cloak and putting your kank or a handy outcropping of rock between you and the worst of the wind.  Or you can carry a tent, a tent not only protects you but also lets you regenerate.

Of course to be totally realistic you should suffer from the storm whether you are moving or not, but I think damage from storms while standing still would hurt playability too much.

The idea isn't to kill PCs, but more to make the desert itself the most dangerous thing out there.  I think the higher water consumption rates was a step in the right direction. I also approve of the kank-trapping pits in some areas, despite the fact that my kanks keep dropping into them.  :x  I like changes that make paying attention and knowing the ways of land at least as important to survival in the desert as being able to solo a gith.  :roll:  

With my example proposal, most PCs should easily be able to aquire enough storm resistance that they would only be taking 1 point of damage, which most of the time would not be a major hinderance to a healthy chracter.  If you are injured, poisoned *and* caught in a deadly storm you are having a very bad day indeed, but a healthy desert-wise character can usually ride out of a terrible storm (and therefore out of the deadly storms spawned by the terrible storm) in well under 50 rooms.  Or simply sit still for the 1-20 minutes it would take for the deadly storm to burn itself out.



As a side effect, this could create another spell for certain magickers.  Durring terrible storms  mages skilled in controling winds and storms might be able to invoke a deadly storm.  Useful if you are trying to get a party of witchhunters off your tail, or just to bedevil you enemies.  Naturally, there would also be the possibility for certain mages to use magick to end a deadly storm prematurely, or use spells to protect their companions from the effects of the storm.  A Storm Shield spell when you need one might make it worth while to keep an elementalist on the payroll.



Another side effect of deadly storms could be that such severe winds and blowing sands eliminate tracks, or cause them to deteriorate twice as fast as normal.  A desperate man might deliberately ride into a deadly storm to shake off the raiders, slavers, or lawmen that are chasing him.


AC

[WhiteRanger]

AC YOUR A GENIOUS. I dont claim to know a damn thing about real life sandstorms, but what I do know is when I am trecking the supposedly most severe environment known to man, I want a little something more slamming me in the face than what some Joe Shcmoe saw at the beach one time. It goes to the point of me not only wanting to loose hp in the storm, but I want a 15% to 20% chance that I get blown in the wrong direction, and then another 30% chance that I stumble and fall on my face. I want three times the stamina deduction there currently is. This isnt because I think "I R UBER RANGER DESERT GOD" its because the next time I see some pc like "the pale skinned youth" walk out into a blinding sandstorm and treck from Tuluk to Luirs on foot, I WANT THE LITTLE BASTARD TO DIE! It might be because I am one sadistic desk jockey, or maybe I just like to play things realistically, and if Im going to....THEN BY KRATH SO ARE YOU! *points at would be twink*  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

[Mr.Camel]

I think the danger of a sandstorm is in its ability to bar vision,  rather than hurting by itself. As much stinging as sand flying in 90mph can do, I think it can be reduced quite significantly with the right clothes. Someone crossing a vicious storm should worry about getting lost, losing resources and hurting themselves, not from the stinging sands, but from the chance that they would fall and hurt themselves on say, a rock.

And all this about 'Peeling the skin off your bones', I don't buy that. True, Zalanthas's sandstorms may just do that to any of us. Zalanthan inhabitants would have stronger flesh than someone sitting most of their day before a computer screen with the comfortably cool AC above their heads.

A sandstorm's harshness isn't in physical pain, and even if it was, two layers of sandcloth would be enough to nullify any pain on the parts they cover, or maybe one.

[X-D]

X-D wrote:
I've also been on a beach (lake erie and lake michigan) during 60mph sustained and 80mph gusts, the sand STINGS,

I might also note that the message 'stinging sands' is the lowest level of sandstorm in the game atm. If this follows your logic, then apparently the next two levels of storm are running into the 140-150 range? Just curious.

I'll explain then.

First, I'd like to point out that I've also heard of the earth sandstorms that can strip flesh, but that seems to be only in the "It's said" catagory, as I've not been able to find any sort of proof.

Alright, on to this, I never once said that it was based in in game message 7DV, and notice that mine is in caps, at 20mph blowing sand stings, at 50-80mph it STINGS, almost hurts and -maybe- if you were naked in it you would take damage. Now, 140mph plus? Dude, thats sorta silly, 140mph winds pick up houses, you CANNOT walk around in it, it rips trees up and just does overall amazing things, NOTHING in game reflects such winds, so, I'd not entertain the thought.

But lets go with the game descs, whats the top one, terrible biting or is it terrible blinding...throw some dust in with that sand I was getting hit with and I definitly would have called it either, have you ever tried to keep your eyes open in wind blown sand? Or even a high wind for that matter?

Now, to the doc that states "sometimes reaching 90mph" I take that as gusts not sustained, so, a top storm would run around 60mph with 90mph gusts, NOT something that is going to do damage to a protected person.

Personaly I think the current way in which the game handles storms is accurate, Hard to see, hard to rest, thirsty faster etc. Everybody wears large cloaks made for zalanthan weather, check out the sandcloth desc sometime, and are well protected from possible bone stripping.

It is plenty realistic now and still playable, doing more would actually take it into the realms of unrealistic IMO.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I wasn't really telling you that you were wrong, I was interested in what you were saying. I also thought that sandstorms going 140 was a tad extreme. S'pretty much why I asled at all.

Additionally, I don't think that folks wearing desert gear should have skin stripped from their bodies. But I do think someone near naked or someone who is not wearing desert gear should experience this. That means that there will be no more silk-wearing in the desert, to which I say, Amen.

I also think that for any person whatsoever there should be some sorta cost for running around in a fucking sandstorm. Reduce movement, take HP, shred clothing after a while. I don't care what it is, do something to them!

[X-D]

Additionally, I don't think that folks wearing desert gear should have skin stripped from their bodies. But I do think someone near naked or someone who is not wearing desert gear should experience this. That means that there will be no more silk-wearing in the desert, to which I say, Amen.

Heh, no arguement there.

I also think that for any person whatsoever there should be some sorta cost for running around in a fucking sandstorm. Reduce movement, take HP, shred clothing after a while. I don't care what it is, do something to them!

Shrug, I don't think it should be everybody, preperation should be worth something along with experiance and such, IE nomads/rangers/d-elves and probobly any of the tribals human or not should not be affected as long as properly outfitted (at least not affected more then they already are). Mostly because of the HUGE playability issue for them, I mean its tough enough playing ISO without being code forced to spend a RL week in a hut. Not to mention they would have even better storm clothing then city folk.

[Armaddict]

Alright, here's my take.

We aren't talking skin scraping off bones, here.  We're talking a -lot- of sand being hurled -directly- against you.  If flesh is exposed, it's going to start hurting like a motherfucker.  Exposure to it for long periods of time -will- leave a burning sort of feeling as well as cause minor skin damage.  I'm not wanting the average storm to kill people.  Just make them think a little about whether they should wait out the storm, or continue, because it's a pain in the ass.

However, there should be another kind of storm, particularly around Red Storm.  Ever seen the movie 'White Squall'?  It would be that equivalent, for a desert world.  Comes out of nowhere, a wall of sand that just overtakes those in front of it.  Winds are extremely high, sand volumes are extremely high, and the biggest danger is that you -have- to move, or you'll be buried.  But moving isn't exactly safe either.  The beauty of this storm?  It's very short in duration.

Yeah.  You can approve or disapprove, and expand on that.  That would be kickass, though.

Edited to add:  Yeah, forgot to say.  The idea, was that I'd actually like to see -stun- be damaged.  Passing out in a storm is bad, because it results in sand covering you, and if you stay out long enough, and the storm is severe enough, you will be buried.  THAT is the deadly part.  None of this skin searing bone scraping sands junk.

[Incognito]

If there's a raging sandstorm, chances are ICLY people should stay indoors or run helter skelter in search of shelter (heh i liked that one).

But do realise that there are players who might have limited playing time. Its one of the reasons folks sometimes do things which seem twinkish or non-realistic in terms of the world, but the bottom line is, it is a game, and folks do have a RL.

When I see someone do something unrealistic, ICLY I try and imagine what would prompt someone to do such an action and come up with something acceptable, to convince myself. For example, a troop of Bynners riding out in a fierce storm - could be heading out to save someone who might be getting attacked.

I'd say - take such incidents with a pinch of salt and you'll be fine.

Incognito

[Bedhead]

I found this page while googling for sand storms.  

http://www.nrzam.org.uk/PaddyFleming/SandStorm.htm

It's an interesting first hand account of big sandstorms in the Sahara.

[Armaddict]

You know, I tried to use that exact same excuse before.  If there's a storm, they can't leave the city.  Plenty they can do within the city.  They start suffering from not being able to hunt because of all the storms lately?  Why can't that be happening?  Bad weather would be stopping a -lot- of hunters, and it's a legitimate thing that would be happening IC'ly.

I -do- see too many hunters who go out in the middle of a fierce storm just because they can still see the room they're in, though.  I can see this in -dire- circumstances, but why do it otherwise?  Seems kinda wrong to me.  And I'm guilty of it as well, because, quite simply, there's never been a -real- penalty for it besides visibility.

This doesn't take away playability, really, it doesn't.  It's just the way things would be on Zalanthas.  So play Zalanthas.

[Lazloth]

Probobly have winds in the 40-50mph range. So, I had to vote Gimpka rats should be magickal.

I voted the same way, but I think you're overdoing it.
The sort of environmental responses we enjoy on Zalanthas probably puts our vicious storms' wind ~25mph in locations where folks can get to.

[Lazloth]

Incidentally, after wasting the prerequisite minutes researching, there is no "skin stripping" that occurs during sand/dust storms that I can find.  You may get your lungs filled with silt and die, but you won't be a skeleton unless you're standing there for a long, long, long time.

HP damage, hence, bzzt.

[X-D]

I -do- see too many hunters who go out in the middle of a fierce storm just because they can still see the room they're in, though. I can see this in -dire- circumstances, but why do it otherwise? Seems kinda wrong to me. And I'm guilty of it as well, because, quite simply, there's never been a -real- penalty for it besides visibility.

Really...hhhhhmmmm, do they STAY in the storm?

A good hunter knows the weather as well as the land, will know where the blowing sands are lower, even says in the docs how to do so. Heading out, braving the sands for an hour to get to cleaer hunting grounds sounds pretty realistic to me.

One other thing, I think that 90% of the people posting on the subject are thinking like an earth human.

Try and remember, ALL the races and species have had THOUSANDS of years to adapt to the conditions they live in, the people have been around it their whole lives, hell, look at some places in game where blowing sand NEVER stops, somebody raised in redstorm thinks "stinging sand" is sunbathing weather. And thats just humans, many of the other races are far tougher then humans.

But same as a northerner moving south IRL or the other way around, I'm from detroit and each winter here in KS I laugh at these people wearing enough clothes to live in the antartic complaining about it being 20 degrees, me, I'm in a leather motercycle coat, boots and jeans.

[Angela Christine]

On the subject of torches... they should require a flint, and be very difficult to light in a "pitch black" room.

Glow crystals for everyone!


AC

[X-D]

I think irrig beatles should be foragable at night and lamps craftable by anyone who has the beetles and a -glass- container with a lid big enough to hold a couple.

That or smear them on yourself like kids do with lightning bugs.

[Jacques]

I think irrig beatles should be foragable at night and lamps craftable by anyone who has the beetles and a -glass- container with a lid big enough to hold a couple.

That or smear them on yourself like kids do with lightning bugs.

This opens whole new fashion ideas...

The foppish, carefree noble has arrived from the west, adjusting his green-glowing codpiece.

[Armaddict]

X-D:

I think the evolution of the zalanthan being doesn't make them resistant to dangers on Zalanthas.  I think it's the same evolution that took place between homo sapiens sapiens of earth...i.e. not physical, so much, but mental.  I think they learned to stay the hell out of a storm, and learn to avoid them, as well.

[spawnloser]

I think irrig beatles should be foragable at night and lamps craftable by anyone who has the beetles and a -glass- container with a lid big enough to hold a couple.

That or smear them on yourself like kids do with lightning bugs.

I don't think so...in fact, I can say with some good amount of assuredness that this will not be the case.  Some people know why...some people may suspect why.  I won't say why, however, but be sure that there is a good reason.

[X-D]

First, Spawnloser, the irrig post was a joke, more derailment then anything.

Armaddict, Really? So, your saying humans have not adapted physicly to the environments they live in? You may want to do some research on that one. The differences in the "races" of this planet are -directly- related to environment, and ours are pretty mild.

Not to mention the body itself can adapt, Did you know, that if you were dropped onto everest (and not even the top, say halfway up) You would die, suffecate from lack of oxygen, yet the local peoples handle it with no problems, but, if you take your time, in only a week or so you can also go to the same height without a problem. Physical adaptation often happens quickly on both species and personal scales and often what forms they take may seem very small or even not noticed.

[Larrath]

Here's a bullshit theory for this, then.

Young elves have a special stage where they must engage in regular, intense excerise in order to maintain their running abilitiez.

Desert elves spent their younger years in the desert and have adapted to a life in these surroundings.

City elves haven't, and have instead adapted to living in the city.


Yes, 'desert humans' are more suitable for living in the desert than 'city humans', but because they do not have an 'actual' benefit to lose.

A city human who trains regularly will be in the same shape as a desert human who trains regularly.  This is not the case with elves because they need to run particularly long distances to maintain the ability.

It is not possible for a city-elf to run laps around Allanak without having to stop to pass through the crowds or bow to that templar or just giving someone a headache and getting tossed in the arena.

So there.

[Shoka Windrunner]

Do storms not make you lose your way and walk in the wrong direction any longer?  It used to be unless you were a ranger or wearing certain gear if you walked into a storm you couldn't see in you'd get fuxored cause you'd type w but go a random direction sometimes.  

Is this out now?  Or what?