Clan Poll

[marko]

The recent discussion about clanned PCs and independent PCs got me to wondering just how many current characters are in a clan.  

Therefore, if you currently have a character that is part of any organization say yes.  If you are part of absolutely no organizations - say no.

Tribal elves, for example, would say yes.

[Bushranger]

I posted no because I am not currently in a clan. I am always looking to join a clan however because they offer so much more to the game play. Sure, an independent crafter or hunter may be able to make a lot of money solo but for what purpose? To strut around in silks and pretend to have more power than a noble?

The best part of being in a clan has always been the plots they develop and the rp it spawns. Sure, solo hunters and crafters (or any other position) can become involved in plots but what do they focus on 9 times out of 10? Clans.

So don't take my vote as accurate, I just haven't found the right clan for my character yet.

[X-D]

currently, no, but I've had FAR more clanned chars then unclanned and almost 100% have been clanned for at least part of thier lives.

[Ghost]

-Secretly-, both yes and no.

I have some allegiances with a clan.  I cannot explain how, but I am still not in that clan.  The allegiances are all very fragile.

To be honest, %80 of my characters are individuals.

[Teleri]

I have never had a serious character as an independent.  Those who were independents, lasted typically no more than 5 hours.  However, those were my first 5 or so starting characters.  I would say that at least 90% of my characters have either been secretly or openly part of a clan.  

No matter what, I always seem to be drawn into some sort of organization, and I usually actively seek out employment.  Several times, I have created characters for the sole purpose of joining a certain clan.  

You could say that I really....really like belonging to clans.  Even though I usually don't get the leadership or "cool" positions, I keep joining clans.  I haven't even been in the majority of them yet!

[Bestatte]

My current is clanned, but not "employed." All of my other characters (12 not including this one) have been clanned, and most of them as employees in one fashion or another.

[Xygax]

Some people seem to be offering some fairly IC answers here.  Please veer away from talking in even vagaries about your current character on this board.

[Anonymous]

I'm willing to admit that my concerns about people not being in house clans are wrong, but I don't think that the question asked in this poll addresses that.

Being 'secretly' in a clan or being in a tribe is in many ways the same as being independent, at least with regards to freedom of movement.  The conversation regarding commoners, money and staying away from clans all had to do with regular employment to a merchant house, noble house or city state.  These are the jobs that I regularly see as being labled 'boring'.  My supposition is that the boredom people encounter in these jobs is because of a lack of clanmates stemming from the last two years' proliferation of clans and the ease with which someone can make it on their own.

Most independent PCs that live a decent amount of time are going to end up, one way or another, contracted or involved with other clans.  So again, I do not think this poll really answers whether or not my fears are true.

[X-D]

CRW, do you post while asleep or something?

Most independent PCs that live a decent amount of time are going to end up, one way or another, contracted or involved with other clans. So again, I do not think this poll really answers whether or not my fears are true.

The poll shows most in clan, then you turn right around, say MOST indy's get involved with clans eventually bringing the clan % higher then the poll, then you state your fears may still be true....BOGGLE.

[Anonymous]

I think there's a big difference between being coded in a clan (any clan) and being in one of the more traditional (typically micromanaged) Houses.  To say you are in a desert elf tribe is a far cry from playing a character in a merchant house, and I think it's unfair to simply lump anyone that's coded in a clan into one category.  I've quickly adopted somewhat of an anti-clan mentality, myself, and despite that I am open minded to playing in a desert elf tribe, or other organization that does not suffer the unfortunate consequences the bigger clans endure.

Clans I will likely never play in again include:

- Micromanaged clans where no matter how secretive you try to do something, sure enough some NPC automagically discovers you and stops you before you can blink.  Every.  Single.  Time.

- Clans that restrict you from leaving the city/outpost/village walls unless in a group.  I can tell you right now the amount of times I can rely on other players to be around and allow me the opportunity to go anywhere are next to never, and as such I have no interest in playing a cooped up character anymore.

- Clans that require a lifelong comitment.  Naturally, it's a lifelong commitment if I am in a tribe, but that's because I've decided this from the getgo.  I have no interest in creating a freewilled persona that is, basically, becoming a slave by joining some clan, especially if you consider the fact that I may agree to join your clan and then find that, OOCly, it isn't my cup of tea.  The only way I can realistically leave is to store the character or face life as an outlaw?  That doesn't encourage me to join the larger institutions in game, personally.

So I really think the Independant vs. Clans debate is primarily focused on specific clans.  That being, the larger ones.  It might look contradicting if I took this poll, considering I dislike most clans, because what I really dislike are the big ones.

[Anonymous]

The poll shows most in clan, then you turn right around, say MOST indy's get involved with clans eventually bringing the clan % higher then the poll, then you state your fears may still be true....BOGGLE.

Try reading the whole post.  I said that being secretly contracted to a clan or in a desert elf/human tribe is much more akin to being an independent with regards to freedom.  Freedom being the number one deterrent for most people joining clans.

Here, I'll repost it in big letters to make it clearer.

Being 'secretly' in a clan or being in a tribe is in many ways the same as being independent, at least with regards to freedom of movement

A large number of the Indy PC's out there end up working errands for a templar, killing for a noble or gathering hides for a merchant.  That's hardly the same thing as having to wear the clan colors, stay indoors, keep to a strict schedule, clear many activities through your clan Imm and not make anywhere near the coin in 2 weeks RL time you could alone.  Lumping all player organizations together doesn't address the issues that I feel are present with regular membership to Merchant, Noble and Militia clans.

[marko]

For the reasoning behind giving only a 'yes / no' option:

There are different types of clans for different types of people, yet the fact remains - you are part of a clan.  Being part of any organization, be it a desert elf tribe or a merchant house puts you in being in a clan.

How much freedom, what the roles are, or the levels of responsibility are irrelevant to the question.  That's something to discuss in another thread.  

[Anonymous]

How much freedom, what the roles are, or the levels of responsibility are irrelevant to the question.  That's something to discuss in another thread.  

Agreed, my point was that because there was no deliniation made between restrictive and non-restrictive tribes/gangs/clans/houses/etc, that this poll doesn't seem to be the definitive proof that merchant/noble/city state clans are doing just fine, despite the fact that this poll was being referenced in those threads as proof of just that.

[sjanimal]

Yeah,  

I don't know who that 'Anonymous Kank" person is, but I agree 100% with what they said.

When I'm ready to join clans again, I will not join any clan that is

micromanaged

or

requiring overly lengthy commitments (example: life commitment)[/u]

[spawnloser]

Those clans that are lifelong commitment let you join first...and then, later, they make you choose...stay forever or leave.

[Anonymous]

Those clans that are lifelong commitment let you join first...and then, later, they make you choose...stay forever or leave.

Great.  That still doesn't exclude the micromanaged aspect that deters some players from joining.

[spawnloser]

Those clans that are lifelong commitment let you join first...and then, later, they make you choose...stay forever or leave.

Great.  That still doesn't exclude the micromanaged aspect that deters some players from joining.

Great.  I never commented on that issue and don't care to.

[Angela Christine]

Great.  That still doesn't exclude the micromanaged aspect that deters some players from joining.

What do you mean by micromanaged in this context?  I don't think I've ever had a problem with a clan being over-managed by staff or PC leaders, so I'm not sure what this issue is.


AC

[Anonymous]

What do you mean by micromanaged in this context? I don't think I've ever had a problem with a clan being over-managed by staff or PC leaders, so I'm not sure what this issue is.

Each clan is ran with varying degrees of supervision and involvement.  

In some clans, you would swear there isn't a clan immortal at all, since you never see or hear from them, nor are the clan NPCs ever animated; in these clans, it is basically up to the player to run the show as they are more or less on their own.  

In other clans the staff members are extremely involved in, offering their players active interaction and a wealth of feedback.

Many clans lie somewhere between the spectrum of these two comparisons, both of which have their own perks and their own hangups.  Everyone is different and to some people one end of the spectrum is better suited to their tastes and playing style than the other.  There isn't anything wrong with this.  I prefer a larger range of freedom and as such tend to steer towards the former type of clan over the latter.

The clans that offer heavy staff interaction and involvement are, in my opinion, too micromanaged (at least for my level of enjoyment).  I prefer the ability to run my own plots or quests (for lack of a better word), and not have them constantly swept aside or halted by a seemingly omnipresent NPC, or by by fantastical grandiose plotlines that exist on such a global scale, no one has any power over them to affect.  I tend to feel suffocated and cornered, where my decisions aren't really my own, and where every step of the way even the simplest of actions might be intruded upon, perhaps as a reminder that I am but a grain of sand in the grand scheme of things (nevermind the reason, because, realistic or not, I still feel cornered and hounded upon, unable to do anything without constant interferance).

Maybe this sounds arrogant, maybe this sounds egotistical, but in some clans, provided that I don't twink out or do obsenely unrealistic things, I am pretty much welcome to do as I please, no holds barred.  And I like that much better -- so much so, I probably won't join clans which I've experienced in the past that were, by my definition, micromanaged.  I prefer free will above all, and if that means that I must play independants or loosely organized tribes/clans, so be it.