Meat and Predators

[Kill4Free]

If you are being chased, by say, a tembo, or raptor, because they are hunting for food, then can you throw meat on the ground, when they are a few squares away, then leave the area, and when the predator comes across it eat the meat and abandon pursuit of you?

[X-D]

There really is only one answer to this one.

Try it and see.

[Kill4Free]

I am staking more on it then just my meat, I cant really afford to find out.

[Agent_137]

Think it out logically with your character. Is it something your character would try? Maybe, carry some meat just in case?

The more you get into your char, the more you'll want to answer your own questions in the game.

What does your character believe would work? Play him that way.

Losing your character isn't bad. There's nothing wrong with it. We all lose chars. Then we make new ones. Then we keep having fun.

Relax, man. It's just a game.

[sjanimal]

Set up.

This is a set up.  I've never tried this.  But I'm 90% sure it would never work.  

What sucks is that it would work in real life, but not in the game.  The game code is great.  But it simply does not support stuff like this.

I think people deserve to know if a plan will fail ONLY BY VITUE OF LACK OF CODED SUPPORT.  I mean, if I were playing the tembo, I could role playing stopping to sniff the meat, but a mobile (the algorithm the computer uses to control blind-NPCs like tembos) doesn't really role play.  Setting this guy up will prove nothing.  

I'm not dissing the game code, it's the best MUD, I've played.  But I don't think we should jerk this noob around.  

Yeah, try it bud, but make sure you have a real good escape plan.

[Kill4Free]

Thanks, I suspected it wouldnt work, but everytime I ask a question the only answer I get is,  if it was real would it work, so I wasnt sure about this.

[Cenghiz]

C'mon! sjanimal is right.. Stop being RP badasses.. It won't work.. It's one's right to know if the code supports him.. IRL it would probably work. A big hunk of meat would distract the raptor, thought he's not that large. IG, even if the raptor ate the meat (I don't know if they do), NPCs eat as instantly as we do. So it'll probably keep on the chasing. I remember a scrab devouring another scrab I killed then attack me, then try a bash on me before I could clean the skinning emote I was writing.
Sorry but it's not too nice to say: "Try and see if the code supports it. If it doesn't; we all lose chars.."

[Halaster]

One alternative is to try and wish up, maybe someone will respond (but don't bet your character's life on it!).

wish all "Hey, I'm being chasec by a tembo, and I just dropped some raw meat to throw it off!"

If you're very lucky, someone will control the tembo... heheh

[Mr.Camel]

Or maybe its very unlucky? :twisted:

[Anonymous]

I think that if you word the question properly in 'Ask the Staff' you can get an answer.  That question is:

"Does the code properly reflect the natural tendancies of a tembo that is chasing me should I toss down a thick, juicy chunk of meat?"

The answer to that question doesn't tell you whether or not a tembo's instincts tell it to keep chasing that which is running away from it or if it will just go for the meat.  Because your average Zalanthan wouldn't know either since I don't think there's much zoology going on in Zalanthas.  Regardless, asked this way you will know whether or not a shortcoming in the code will hamper your efforts or if tembos just like to chase those soft, tanned hairless meat balls on legs.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

One alternative is to try and wish up, maybe someone will respond (but don't bet your character's life on it!).

wish all "Hey, I'm being chasec by a tembo, and I just dropped some raw meat to throw it off!"

If you're very lucky, someone will control the tembo... heheh

Hello, Halaster. Why not write a script or prog that will check for things like that in the room the predator enters? Have it go off on a chance. 60% that animal will stop to 'eat' the meat, and 40% chance that it will not, and will continue chasing you. THis would be very realistic, and what's more, very easy to do.

[Anonymous]

Venomz, while it might be easy to do what happens when you have a script firing off checking every room every 10 seconds (the minimum number required for the script to even have a chance to fire off when a player is spam fleeing) across the whole mud?  It would peg the CPU very hard, IMHO.

[Pantoufle]

No it does not work to drop meat and have a predator go for the meat instead of you -- though realistically this may be the case, there is no code to support it.  And I would never tell some newb to give it a try and see, since the end result will be a very boring death to a very boring robotic NPC.  That kinda shit just ain't cool.

[marko]

In this case, we can also assume that tembo like their flesh live and warm as opposed to dead and cold.  So therefore, it may not be realistic for a tembo to ignore that nice yummy warm flesh for the icky cold meat.  

[Pantoufle(notloggedin)]

True, arguably tembo may prefer a live kill to a scrap of meat.  But then again, they might not.  And in either case, there is no code to support tossing meat at an NPC to stay the beast from coming after you.  Even if there was, the NPC would likely get meat, eat meat, all in the matter of a milisecond, and then continue on its merry way to hunt you down (irregardless of the fact that it may now have a belly full).

So I would always err on the side of caution and tell any newbie expressly not to go experimenting with such merciless code as aggressive NPCs.  Realistically someone might be able to dress up as a bandit of some otherwise aggressive NPC outpost, but you wouldn't tell them to "think realistically" and go give it a try, now would you?  You and I both know the code is not going to take that shit into consideration and the instant they try to be "realistic" the code is going to prompt them the Mantis head before you can blink.

[Anonymous]

You and I both know the code is not going to take that shit into consideration and the instant they try to be "realistic" the code is going to prompt them the Mantis head before you can blink.

Are you playing in some bizzaro world Armageddon where 'drop meat' takes 5 minutes?

[Quirk]

Five seconds may be enough to make the difference between being in combat with the tembo and getting away safely, never mind five minutes.

It'll take a couple of seconds to enter "drop meat", and some sort of delay is likely required to find out whether the tembo will continue its chase or stop by the meat. It cuts the escape that little bit finer, and that may make the difference between life and death.

And yes, since you're unlikely to get a rezz as a result of a code flaw in any but the most egregrious of situations, experimenting with such things is a dangerous thing to do and should not be casually recommended.

Quirk

[Agent_137]

I still think his character should carry some meat around just in case. It'd be cool. I'm doing that with my next ranger.


City boy says, "Dude, what's that smell?"

Ranger guy says, "Oh, that's my meat."

City boy says, "Your what?!"

Ranger guy says, "My meat, for throwing down to keep things that want to eat me off my track."

City boy says, "Oh, right, cool, man."

Ranger guy says, "Yes, I know."

[sjanimal]

If I can give some follow-up advice...

Halaster is completely right about wishing....it works.

I use a wish about every five hours of gameplay, and I've only once ever had an IMM resopnd negatively.  Sometimes they're not around, but usually if they are around they get back to me pretty quickly, and are helpful, as well as being good role players.

Let's face it -- they are very entertained by the crazy antics and ploys that we try.  It's donwright amusing to everyone.

Yeah, go ahead and wish once in a while to try stuff like this.  The IMMs are truly very helpful, for the most part.

[Cenghiz]

I know imms are helpful. I don't usually wish up for something.. But they jumped in all the time there was something interesting.. But... My current char was about to die of thirst one west of the Temple of Dragon, too.(There are 3 players online) I had coins for more than a few large skins of water, there were NPC's that IRL I would probably be able to give 50 or 100 or 150 coins for just dragging me to the water. Luckily I survived.. But I can't blame any imms for  their being asleep at 3am EST and 10 am here in Turkey.
Luckily the regeneration was faster than dehydration damage. But no newbie would like to die in an attempt to try a risky thing without imm's support. Thumbs up for wishing up, but they may not work sometimes.

[moab]

Usually things chase you not necessarily to eat you but many times because you represent a threat.

I'm pretty sure that if a fellow being chased by a lion in the jungle were to drop a pack of meat, the lion would take him out first and come back for the meat later.

Of course this isn't always the case - large snakes for example, but many times (big cats, bears, dogs, etc) it is.  They like the chase.  If you're running, they wanna get a tasty bite while you're all warmed up and sweaty.

[Xan]

Also remember that such an animal is focused on you, they arent logical beings that are going to weigh all the pros and cons.  Fresh, tender meat over some week old piece of durrit?

I'd like to see more animals that dont pursue beyong their hunting grounds, but I dont think tossing some meat in realistic circumstances will distract any serious predator.  I could be wrong though.

[Cenghiz]

Nope, I would say.. I'm greatly interested in big cats and most know that they're scavengers.. They 'would' stop and eat the meat, probably. They know there's a competition of eating food amongst all neighbour cats. And cheteahs (sorry if mispelled) would do for sure, because they're known for their instincts keeping their loss of energy minimum. They automatically stop a pursue when they believe the energy they would gain won't be worth that. Or they would die of hunger because of their high metabolism.
It's our fantasy to dream cats as vigorous hunters, but they're just scavengers, who would bully a female with two kittens (even two kittens of their own) and get her dead prey rather than hunting.
But I can't say anything about canines.. I hate canines.. I never bothered to investigate their instincts.
Errr.. Of course, I never dropped meat when a leopard was pursuing me.. I may have had blubbered.. We can't really know till someone goes to a safari and tries.

[Gilvar]

I dont like that someone said this wouldn't work. Having never seen anyone try, or even think about doing it on PCs (and I tend to watch a good deal of hunters/wilderness types for solo-rp) I think its fairly ignorant to say it wouldn't work. And no this is not an invitation for you to go out and try and then post your results here, but that a good deal of you shoot down an idea's validity in the game with little or no experience in the area irks me.

If it works or not is really not to be posted here. Its a code intracy, and is line with questions like "Does holding such and such a tool make me better at crafting?" answers are not given flat out because its a feature of the code that shouldn't ever become positive public knowledge because it alters the actions of SOME players on at least a few levels.

Similarly, saying flat out that it doesn't work, will most likely (regardless of how great an RPer you think you are) discourage people from attempting it in the future, because most people, when faced with npc danger go into command-spam survival mode either running and hiding or similar courses of action. Saying "NO THIS WONT WORK" basically shuts off the options to some players that would've tried of their own volition, since they will know in the back of their head it wont work.

I will not say if it does or doesn't work in the manner intended, but encourage players to play their characters realistically rather then on what coded results they think will happen, this makes the game a better place for everyone.

[Agent_137]

I will not say if it does or doesn't work in the manner intended, but encourage players to play their characters realistically rather then on what coded results they think will happen, this makes the game a better place for everyone.

I like to think this quote embodies why code should be left in the background.

[Bestatte]

So, knowing that running lowers your stamina, if your stamina drops to a certain number you have to rest - that's wrong, because it's just code?

Or how about knowing that you have to HOLD a rope in ordered for it to have any benefit to you?

What about USE SOAP? I mean - you can already "clean collar blood" - you shouldn't need to be informed that the proper CODED syntax for soap is "USE."

Sorry - I just have to disagree. There's realism, and there's playability. REALISTICALLY - dropping meat to lure a creature closer so you can kill it, or dropping meat to distract it so it won't kill you - REALISTICALLY - this would work. Realistically - you should -totally- try it if you think your character would.

This all boils down to the same ole stuff about what's IC and what isn't, and which IC things are appropriate to discuss and which things aren't.

If something -should- work, according to realistic roleplay, but there exists no code to support it, then players -should- be informed if they ask about it so they don't wish up complaining when it doesn't work, or worse - post on the GDB ranting about how no one told them, and that it SHOULD work because it's realistic.

Pantoufle posted the same general idea - much less wordy of course. But yeah I agree on this particular issue. It's not giving info about how a secret command works. It is acknowledging the fact that a certain code does NOT exist in the game. And I don't think this is a problem.

[Agent_137]

So, you're a hunter. You have some meat on you. You are running from a beast that wants to eat you. You now have the question:

Do I drop the meat, or keep it?

As a character, unless you know, IC, that the beast won't stop to eat the meat, or that the meat isn't weighing you down when you run, wouldn't it make perfect sense to drop it? In just the -off- chance? I mean, I leave this to your character to decide.

But, as a player, you heard on the gdb that dropping the meat won't work at all. So now you are split from your character. He doesn't know. You do. Thus arises the potential for twinking, and a small conflict for those who don't twink. Sure, the average RPer is going to ignore his OOC knowledge and do as his char would, but wouldn't it have been nicer if he -didn't- know, and held out a bit of hope? Seems more enjoyable to me. Could just be me.


Now, as far as the other examples listed, they are all on the other end of the spectrum. Harmless code that you -need- to know to play. Stuff that a living breathing character in the world would -know-. Anyone, everyone, every VNPC in Zalanthas knows that when you run, you get tired, and when you get tired, you have to stop, and eventually sleep, because you are WORN OUT.

Every VNPC, NPC, and PC on zalanthas knows that to clean a collar with soap you have to scrub it. No one would hold the soap, look at the collar, smash them together, and go home. So you should know the code is USE soap.

etc. etc.

Not every person on zalanthas is gonna know if that tembo will stop to eat the meat or not. Hell, nobody on this board really knows if an earth beast would stop to eat the meat. Even Cenghiz was like, "i've studied a lot, but I don't really -know-."  So, it's safe to assume that not everyone on zalanthas knows, either. Therefore, it should be left to finding out ic.

BAM. How about that? I said it. Find out IC.

[sjanimal]

Gilvar,

You seem to think that I have overstepped my bounds here, and for that I would like to apologize and accept censure.  

I will try to refrain from entering discussions on the code until I have had time to reflect on what is appropriate and what is not.

I don't consider this matter to be finished, however, and should like to talk to you sometime about it, when we are both not busy.

-sjanimal

[Gilvar]

Pantoufle posted the same general idea - much less wordy of course. But yeah I agree on this particular issue. It's not giving info about how a secret command works. It is acknowledging the fact that a certain code does NOT exist in the game. And I don't think this is a problem.

I think it is a problem, because of what I said. Someone just saying "THIS DOES NOT EXIST" causes characters to not even do it because it will not produce a coded reaction. Not everyone, but a good chunk of the populace. Similarly with the soap example, soap used to not clean. Soap used to not exist (in a hard-coded way). It was added specifically for this and made clear that it had a coded benefit. Crafting-Tools, my example, are different and more in line with that I think this hunting thing is (something that should be left ambiguous and mysterious to prevent abuse and encourage characters to act as realistically as possible. I.e. using tools is realistic and should be done, regardless of a coded benefit, but if a player was told definitively eitherway, alot would likely forego their use in an effort to save money, OOC-thinking, but done nonetheless.)

Going back to soap, before it was added people still emoted, worked with, and tended to their clothing and equipment to clean and maintain it, alot didnt because they felt there was no point. Like in the Byn a guy actually OOCed about not having any armor repair skills on a maintenance day and how he was going to go AFK to get something to eat since he couldn't do anything to his damaged equipment anyways.

And that is pretty much the basis of my opinion on this issue. Saying: Yes/No this does/n't have a coded benefit/detriment/effect affects people's gameply and should be avoided where possible. And in alot of cases, creative people willing to work with themselves or the staff can often work around non-existant code if its realistic, but this of course relies on players willing to try things. (Granted this isn't an ideal option for a life or death situation, but you hopefully get the idea.)

Lastly, im not even saying this is wrong or illegal, as obviously the post is still here, just that I think, (as in, in my opinion) that discussing the definitiveness of generally obscure and non-everyday code (or the lack thereof) is bad and can set precedents/conceptions about code discussion that could also be more potentially harmful then just a discussion about meat and predators. Also sometimes useful ideas come from the vague discussion of code (i.e. in the code-discussion forum) and ways to improve/add different features. But again, saying Yes that creates a coded affect, or No that doesn't create a coded affect,  is bad.

[spawnloser]

Gilvar, the problem here is that people's characters and fun is on the line.  We are playing a game because we enjoy it...and if the raptor doens't even pause at the meat, it is possible that the person being chased could get eaten by it pretty quickly.  Sure, they could possibly get a rezz as a code issue is what caused the death...but then they have to send an email, wait for a response, probably send another email, wait for a response, wait for rez...and now they can finally play the game again.  If something is going to affect my game play so badly, I think it is more than a 'code quirk' or 'feature' of the game...it should almost be classified as a bug.  Unless someone was willing to pause to wish up and the staff agreed that one of them would automatically make the hunting NPC stop for the meat if appropriate without pause, I'd be fine with this...but I don't expect the IMMs to make that promise, as there are plenty of other important things they need to be doing.  Personally, I'd rather drop the meat and run...spam getting my ass out of there because I don't feel like losing a character to some silly code quirk doesn't sound so terribly awful to me.

[Anarchy]

Given the escape abilities of most "desert" animals, in the RL (lizards and their tales comes to mind), i would be inclined to think tossing a bit of meat while your running down a sand dune, bleeding, sweating and screaming out for help, - would -not- deflect a Tembo's attention from catching you, then consuming you. All the meal would do is be tosses up into the air, then land with a thud on the sand. It does nothing to draw the animal's attention, while you, on the other hand are running, screaming, bleeding and sweating.

[Kill4Free]

You forget though that in most cases in game, you can get far ahead of the tembo, or raptor, and then they follow your tracks.  If they saw a big piece of juicy free meat, Id say that would distract them from the goal.

[Angela Christine]

My observations, as someone who has died in the wilderness many, many times:

*Some creatures will eat a body, some will not.

*Some creatures will stop and pick up things dropped on the ground, some will not.  They don't stop for very long, but it might be long enough.

*Some creatures appear to be coded to be more likely to go looking for food only when they are hungry, but  are still happy to attack anyone that walks near them whether they are hungry or not.

*There are ways to get a tracking creature off your tail, some obvious, some not.

Those are possibilities which I honestly believe to be true based on my own experiences.  Obviously I'm not going to say which ones apply to which NPCs, but these are things that at least a few NPCs will do.  There is hope.


You can experiment for yourself.  You can try to convince a weathered old hunter to take you on as an apprentice and teach you all he knows.  You can join an organization that conducts extensive wilderness survival training and missions in the wilderness.  You can become an imm, mage or psionicist and watch what other people do, without them knowing.  Each approach has it's own problems: experimenting for yourself will probably lead to many deaths, weathered old hunters may not want an apprentice, organizations may only send very experienced people or large groups into the wilderness so they may not actually use or know ways for a lone wimp to escape a raptor (or other tracker) because they always simply kill them outright, and getting into a position to watch other PCs without being noticed takes a long time.  But there is hope.


Angela Christine