Half-Giant Inventory

[EvilRoeSlade]

As a side-note, I'm pretty happy with the limitations half-giants have, considering the enormous power they can exhibit, in other coded ways.

A half-giant's most important limitation is karma.  It means that the code that arbitrates them can be created with realism in mind and not with the need to arbitrarily balance them against other races.

And furthermore, a half-giants limited inventory is probably their smallest disadvantage.  Implying that it would increase their power is pretty ridiculous.

[Xygax]

A half-giant's most important limitation is karma.  It means that the code that arbitrates them can be created with realism in mind and not with the need to arbitrarily balance them against other races.

Simply because a race or guild requires karma to play does not mean that it should suffer no limitations.

And furthermore, a half-giants limited inventory is probably their smallest disadvantage.  Implying that it would increase their power is pretty ridiculous.

Great, it sounds like you have no problems with it, then.    The people who do feel it is a limitation feel that way because of the risks involved in sometimes having to set things down on the ground to reorganize their inventory, or having to fumble with your inventory in the middle of a fight because you've been disarmed and can't pick up your weapon, or how dangerous it can be to try to snatch a few items from your dead friend's inventory before that silt-horror turns on you, or the IC (not so much coded, though these aren't neglible either) advantages of being able to build a campfire.  That these limitations don't hamper your half-giant-lifestyle is fine with me, but I am glad they do hamper others.  In my opinion, it forces some interesting decisions upon players of this race.

I think it's neat, for example, when I see a half-giant lumbering around with the heaviest chest in the game because it's the easiest way for him to keep his things together.  It makes perfect IC and OOC sense, and just plain gives me the warm-fuzzies.  Especially when the PC is really roleplaying the bulk of themselves and their gear, and playing out the difficulties these things present in their generally-human-sized environment.

-- X

[Revelations]

Hehe, nicely said.

[Armaddict]

I -do- agree a limit of two or three items is a little...excessive, in my opinion, just for reasons of the spam other players often have to see with this equipment re-arranging, as well as all out playability...it's just annoying to have to type get rock, put rock pack, get rock, put rock pack, over and over and over.  If you wanted that to be the simple half-giant, putting a rock in one at a time...that can be role-played without giving the player a headache.  With my experiences with half-giants, though...it really isn't -too- big a deal.

So, like Xygax said...I really won't care if nothing's done.

[Anonymous]

In my opinion, it forces some interesting decisions upon players of this race.

I think it's neat, for example, when I see a half-giant lumbering around with the heaviest chest in the game because it's the easiest way for him to keep his things together.  It makes perfect IC and OOC sense, and just plain gives me the warm-fuzzies.  Especially when the PC is really roleplaying the bulk of themselves and their gear, and playing out the difficulties these things present in their generally-human-sized environment.

I'm all for limitations and finding ways to work around them, I grow frustrated with limitations that make certain aspects of the game feel unwieldy and unrealistic.  I'd compare it to giving Desert Elves higher stamina and run speed but requiring them to enter in an extra command every 3rd room.

Myself I don't generally like having my PCs going around with items hanging around in their inventory because it feels cheesy using inventory as some marsupial pouch, so this issue has never ruined my time.

It's not that half-giant inventory prevents me from spam crafting, foraging my way to thousands of sids or from carrying 15 weapons in case I'm disarmed, it's that it is tedious and lacking in any realistic basis from where I'm sitting.

It feels like the half-giant inventory situation was the result of the way inventory space was calculated, not something designed with half-giants in mind, and in the end it was decided to just incorporate that as a limitation to the race.  I'd rather see half-giants given coded limitations in line with their physical and mental makeup.  They have huge stun so using the way isn't as problematic at lower psi proficiency.  Up their stun drain for successful usage of barrier or psi to represent their need to focus to accomplish something.  Have them drop the occasional item as it passes into their inventory to show how much trouble they have with needing nimble fingers or some other similar limitation on their play based on their mental deficiences and physical makeup.  Not being able to pick that fourth leaf because you have three in your gigantic hands just feels weird.

[Yokunama]

two items, one thing in each hand. big fucking deal.

Deal with it. I played a mud for seven years where EVERYONE was limited to two hands inventory. It wasn't a problem. Suck it up. How can your HG bend down and pick up a pebble if he's already holding something in both hands? in real life, you could drape the shirt over the bag, but maybe the HG wouldn't think of that. Or just stuff the shirt in the bag. I realize this is only a specfic example, but still, you -can- deal with this. It doesn't require a code change.

To bold text:
That doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. A Half-Giant should be able to hold a pebble under its pinky finger while holding a backpack or two.

[LoD Snarf]

Spare us your arrogance, thank you. Just because you're clever in your wording doesn't make it anything other than a veiled insult.

I find the HG limitation to be intentional and needed because of what they are, and what they can do.  These are just my thoughts, as the rest of you have been sharing yours.  All I'm saying is that not everyone wants or believes this change should happen.  I'm certainly not trying to insult anyone.

I've proposed something that Imms could implement to get around the crafting problem, and agree that the limit should certainly be at least 2.  Disagree with me if you wish, but there's no need to go name calling.

Xygax feels the same with regards to the limitation helping to enforce a certain set of checks and balances with HG's.  People may not agree with my personal view of HG's and their mentality, but that's the point of discussion boards.  At any rate, I've said more than enough on this subject as I doubt it will change anytime soon.

-LoD

[Xygax]

Not being able to pick that fourth leaf because you have three in your gigantic hands just feels weird.

This might be a legitimate argument for a more sophisticated inventory system in general.  A system that used some sane heuristic to determine how cumbersome and unweildy an object is to calculate how much inventory/container room it consumed might prove more "realistic" in instances like this, but it would require weight and volume data (and maybe some other metric -- my spidey-sense tells me weight and volume aren't enough for total realism) that many objects may not have (certainly no object currently has any real volume data, as such, it simply isn't in the database).

That said, it isn't a particularly good argument for expanding half-giant inventory.  Half-giants have the same leaf-carrying problem as elves do; they just experience it more severely because of their limited agility.  An elf should be able to carry dozens of leafs, probably, while a half-giant ought at least to be able to manage several at one time (though she might well crumple them accidentally).

All told, a system like this is not interesting enough to me to justify the coding time and data-entry effort required to support it, and it wouldn't effectively change the limitation that half-giants experience in being able to juggle inventory -- beyond allowing them to carry more leaves and feathers.

-- X

[EvilRoeSlade]

I find the HG limitation to be intentional and needed because of what they are, and what they can do.  These are just my thoughts, as the rest of you have been sharing yours.  All I'm saying is that not everyone wants or believes this change should happen.  I'm certainly not trying to insult anyone.

I've proposed something that Imms could implement to get around the crafting problem, and agree that the limit should certainly be at least 2.  Disagree with me if you wish, but there's no need to go name calling.

I felt it was reasonable to take offense when you implied that those who disagreed with you had an inferior imagination.  But I didn't really mean to be hostile.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Simply because a race or guild requires karma to play does not mean that it should suffer no limitations.

Am I arguing that half-giants should be 12-feet tall super-soldiers because I think that the inventory limit (for all races and not just half-giants) is unreasonable and unrealistic?

Great, it sounds like you have no problems with it, then.  :)

That's not what I said.

The people who do feel it is a limitation feel that way because of the risks involved in sometimes having to set things down on the ground to reorganize their inventory, or having to fumble with your inventory in the middle of a fight because you've been disarmed and can't pick up your weapon, or how dangerous it can be to try to snatch a few items from your dead friend's inventory before that silt-horror turns on you, or the IC (not so much coded, though these aren't neglible either) advantages of being able to build a campfire.

Thank you for telling me how I feel.  I would like you to know that I have played many, many half-giants over the past four years and I have never felt any pain from any of those situations except for the last one.  I have had to set things on the ground, but I don't really mind.  Rest assured that if having to set things on the ground was the only issue then I would content myself to griping to my friends about it rather than posting on the GDB.

However, I still haven't recieved any rational explanation for why I'm allowed to create a half-giant who can pick locks (and I have, it was fun) but not a half-giant who can build a campfire.

I don't think anyone should be ALLOWED (never mind forced to) create a character that's capable of lighting a torch but not capable of building a campfire.  That simply defies explanation, and there are no two ways about it.

[Xygax]

Thank you for telling me how I feel

You're welcome, I suppose, but I don't recall having done this.

However, I still haven't recieved any rational explanation for why I'm allowed to create a half-giant who can pick locks (and I have, it was fun) but not a half-giant who can build a campfire.

You can create a campfire, you just can't create one using a recipe that requires more ingredients than you can hold.  There are dozens of valid recipes for campfires, and I believe (without checking) that some of them require fewer items than others.

-- X

ps-  ERS:  Your tone seems particularly (and inappropriately) hostile.  Please dial it back.  My posts aren't intended as personal attacks on you; I'm perfectly familiar with how many half-giant characters you've played in the last four years, and while I respect your opinion, I disagree with it for the reasons I've detailed above.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I'm sincerely sorry if my arguementative tone seems that way.  I really try my best not to be inappropriately hostile.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

This will serve as a slight derail, before I give my opinion on the topic:

Half-giants strike me as a race nearly as hard to play as mantis, or halflings. The reason I say this is because being dumb correctly, without reverting to the 'caveman' norm, is somewhat difficult. I know, for instance, that I can't bring myself to actually stop thinking, so I'll never play one. So, in my experience, we either have half-giants that are too dumb, or too smart. Once in a while you will find one that's great, but seriously, is even he being perfect?

I am somewhat biased to making half-giants a step before muls and sorc/mindbender. If you think about it, it's much easier to play a realistic elementalist than a half-giant anyway.

On topic:

I think half-giants should be able to hold a ton in their hands, in all truthfulness. I've talked to several of the folks in this conversation and pondered it in real life. Manual dexterity means little when it comes to holding a number of things in your hand at any given time.

The thing is, those things might all be broken or ruined when that hand opens again. If you really want to see half-giant realism, do you want to see scripts for that? I doubt it.

I think that a half-giant who went around scooping up everything would come home with nothing, and I think most half-giants have learned that.
So, in that light, view them as being careful.

I think it's realistic, and I think it fits them.