Suggestions on how to curb GDB Flaming and off topic discuss

[sarahjc]

Just what the question asks.. I decided that since we are de-railing another thread with this topic, why not give it its own thread.. Please be polite and courteous with this. If you can't post nicely please don't post.

With that said, this problem is ongoing all the time, and the imms do their best to stop it, but how do you stop it? Stop Guest posts? Kick people off the boards? I'd like to hear what people think are rational solutions to the problem or if they think it's a problem at all. And please.. Play nice.

[Anonymous]

Board bans.

[sarahjc]

I thought maybe a three time offender type deal, and then a ban for a month, but is that really going help? I mean, can't the person come back as a guest, and if you ban guests, can't they just come back under a different name?

Also I like the guest post option. I think you need it for people who don't want to potentially reveal who they play but have an important opinion on a topic because of current experience.

[Akaramu]

I dont see guest posts as a problem. The worst flames have been posted with GDB names, not as guest posts (except for the occasional stupid / annoying guest comment, but those are rare.) I'd rather not get rid of them because sometimes I am glad to be able to post a question without people guessing who I play because of said question.

I agree with CRW that board bans are the way to go. Maybe temporary bans the first time, and permanent if they still dont learn to behave. Quite obviously, simple warnings / reminders dont change a thing.

As for coming back with different names, that person would need several email adresses to keep making new forum names, which is too much of a hassle. Besides, the IP could be checked / banned if necessary.

[UnderSeven]

I don't think we should stop guest posts, but if possible have guest posts put up ip's?  That way people might not be so inclined to use a guest account to flame.  I'm not sure I like the idea of bans, but I'm sure the staff would warn a repeat offender if they had to.

I would like to say though, the flaming on this board is the least of ANY OTHER mud gdb I've ever seen, considerably.  While that's no reason not to keep tring to bring it down, I think at least this board deserves some props for that.

[Bestatte]

Remove posting privileges from repeat offenders who have been warned or had posts deleted on a regular basis already. And get tough on people who look like they're starting to emulate the ones who have already had the privilege taken away.

Guest posts that exist only to provoke flames or "question authority" should be deleted with subsequent posts by the offending guest leading toward a IP ban.

Guest posts have their place, to protect accounts from being recognized. However I would suggest to all of us (myself included) that we make a new registered account specifically so we can post without worrying that someone will know that "the person who apologizes for killing the elf without emoting last week" was us, or asks about the backstab skill, or needs help on other things that are better off posted anonymously, is one of us.

[jhunter]

Guest posts that exist only to provoke flames or "question authority" should be deleted with subsequent posts by the offending guest leading toward a IP ban.

"Question authority"

Are you saying ban people for disagreeing with those in charge?
That doesn't seem like much of a discussion board to me...it's the disagreements that sometimes bring about good ideas when they don't degrade into flames.

Your never going to have a flame free board...not going to happen unless you keep people from posting at all.

Besides....then what do you do about those that post just in an attempt to bait flames? I've seen many who do it, while not being outright offensive they do just enough to provoke others. This is where it all starts, IMHO.

I personally find those that preach "rp'er than thou" attitudes on the board more offensive than the flames themselves.

I think people blow it into a bigger thing when they post to complain about people flaming or derailing threads...all you do is add to the problem.

[Edited to add]

I also don't doubt for a moment that once bannings start to happen, there are cliques here that will band together and start working to get those they dislike banned from the boards.

Baiting...then e-mailing the moderators to turn them in an such. There would be no defense against this and it's just going to cause more problems both with the board and the game. It would create more animosity than exists already, IMHO.

[sarahjc]

Edited for clarification purposes

Besides....then what do you do about those that post just in an attempt to bait flames? I've seen many who do it, while not being outright offensive they do just enough to provoke others. This is where it all starts, IMHO.

Heh.. I got into an extensive argument with a person over that the other day Jhunter, and though it burns me to admit it.. That person was right.  When people are irritated it is hard to keep your month shut about something and commenting on the situation at hand can sometimes make it worse, especially when you pinpoint people.

Although, myself and that person had a fairly nasty conversation over PMs, (which is how I think it should be, we both  steamed and stewed) nobody else had to suffer through it. Maybe a good way to get things under control would be for the Imm's to delete the offending post, give the person a warning and tell them to take it up privately, if they continue to kill the boards, send them packing..

Thought that also begs the question,  "What is enough?  And what is offensive? And what adds to or de-rails a thread?

[Zore]

I'm not sure if we all agree on what flame means.

Being impolite is not flaming. Criticising other people's ideas is not flaming. Disagreeing with anyone (yes, that includes everyone) is certainly not flaming. Heated discussions are not automatically flaming.

Flaming is insulting and provoking writing "with a patently ridiculous attitude or with hostility toward a particular person or group of people".

In my opinion, as long as we are keeping a thread somewhat on topic, and do not resort to personal attacks, things won't need additional control. If this is somehow related to the "dislike" thread... I do not think the majority of the posts were flames. Keeping in mind the thread was about dislikes, not likes, aside a couple of personal attacks the thread progressed pretty smoothly.

If you (this is passive voice, meaning if anyone of you) are easily insulted and offended by people disagreeing with you and doing that impolitely, I'm afraid there probably isn't a single useful moderated or unmoderated discussion board on the Net to suit your needs.

[jhunter]

Being impolite is not flaming.

Nope, not in itself. But it sure does contribute to it.

I think it should be treated just as if it were a flame.

You want to keep a fire from starting?

Take away the fuel.

[SailorMars]

These boards are remarkably free of flames, compared to many others. When it comes to boardiquette, the best rule I ever saw was "be civil".

There's "proactive checks" and "reactive checks" on a message board.

Reactive is the admins locking posts, deleting posts, editing posts, or banning users. Ideally, proactive checks keep these to a minimum.

Proactive checks are simply things a user can do before hitting "submit". Is your post starting a fire or further fanning an existing fire? Is someone egging you into a pissing contest? Is what you posted an argument or a debate? Are you in a shitty mood for whatever reason at that moment and is that coming out in your post? Are you stating the law instead of an opinion? One of the best things a poster can do is read over their post in a preview before sending it. If it reads as any of the above, hit back and walk away. Come back later and try again.

As for punishments, the imms probably handle it like anyone else... too many abuses equals a ban. Again, these boards are really light on flames, from my experience, so kudos to the posters and imms that know how to keep it civil.

Edit: Oh yeah, the edit button is good too for removing stuff that you realize later was a mistake. Like my typos. Zap. Zap. Zap.

[Zore]

[Removed by Author]

[jhunter]

[Edited as is no longer relevant.]

[marko]

A very simple system - One warning then banned for six months.

That's it.

No extra chances.  You screw up twice - you are timed out.

At six months the ban is removed and one can post again.

During the period of the ban - it is possible to read posts just not reply.

I'd also remove guest privs to post from every forum except ask the players (since the typical useful gust post is a newbie asking questions).  

I've posted as a guest in the past to avoid letting people know what I was playing - but I'm willing to just not post to get rid of questionable guest posts.

I'd let the immortals decide what they deem innapropriate and let them take care of it.

[Carnage]

Your never going to have a flame free board...not going to happen unless you keep people from posting at all.

This is the correct answer.

Being impolite is not flaming. Criticising other people's ideas is not flaming. Disagreeing with anyone (yes, that includes everyone) is certainly not flaming. Heated discussions are not automatically flaming.

Agreed.

By the way some people leap to call flame, I wonder if they have any idea what a flame is.

Edit: And also, I'd like to see immortals being regulated as well. Sanvean's comment about abrasive posts being deleted should count towards all, -including- Bhagarva's.

[Zore]

What purpose or contribution to this discussion did that post have Zore?

It had the purpose I mentioned in the message, to find out what is exactly this "impoliteness" you wish to eradicate from the GDB.

Yes, by that point I was sick of it and lost my temper...I am also human after all.

So am I. And I admit that post of mine appeared too much of a personal attack, so I'll remove it.

I see your post all in all as a perfect example, you posted for no other reason than to start shit.

I wanted and still want to start "shit": discussion about what is conceived to be "impoliteness" and if we really want to remove it from the board.

[Werd]

Take away guest posting and tie all forum accounts to Arm accounts. That way nobody can be a jackass anonymously and nobody can just use a random anonymous email account that is different than the one on their Arm account to register for the boards either. If the accounts were verified against their Arm accounts, I think it would start to curb a great deal of the problems, especially if potential banning of the game accounts or loss of karma or bad comments on the accounts were a possibility for repeat offenders or particularly annoying morons.

Keeping track of guest post ips isn't going to work, anyone could easily use a proxy whenever they post or have a dynamic ip. Associating GDB account with game account would go a long way in bringing about a more civil environment on the forums, either that or start charging 10 bucks to register an account like Somethingawful does.

Personally I have not really seen that much of a problem on these forums, aside from some really annoying derails.

[sarahjc]

I'll try to state this again. I was hoping this thread would be a discussion on how to help bickering as well as flaming and De-Railment on the boards.. Please try to keep it at that.

Things were going good. Please try to refrain from using exact examples or finger pointing.. This thread can very easily, go very wrong, very quickly..

I would like to see arguments, not harassment..

[Mexie]

People just need to learn when to let go.  Continuing an arguement when it's obvious that you aren't going to agree doesn't make you bigger man (or woman).  It just makes you look like an ass.  Especially when the crap from that arguement spills over from one thread into another.

 Most people with any bit of common sense can tell when a discussion is turning sour/stagnant and let go, accordingly, because it can't go anywhere good from there.

[Mr.Camel]

How about instead of posting as a guest without an account, you would get an option to post anonymously with your account? That way, guest posts would be easier to track.

[Vettrock]

I like the anonymous idea.  That way the staff could still see who you are, but the playerbase could not.

[sarahjc]

I like that as well..

[Werd]

Yeah good idea, tack that onto my tying of the GDB accounts to the Arm accounts idea and I think it would be the perfect solution.

[Bestatte]

The staff can already see who is posting even when they're posting as "guest." Obviously this isn't stopping anyone from doing it anyway. And I reiterate that not all "guest" posts are insulting, inflammatory, provocative, etc. A lot of people are new to the game, new to the forum, and simply don't have accounts yet. I don't think banning guest posts will solve the problem and might turn away newbies who just need a helping hand.

[jhunter]

I don't think having our game accounts tied to the discussion board is a good idea.

What we do here should have no bearing on what we do when we're playing.

If that happened, I'd erase my gdb account and never use it again for fear I might accidently say something that would piss someone off and have my game account zapped for it.