If you have played a half-giant...

[Callisto]

I'd like to get an opinion on something.

I'm writing up a half-giant character in case my PC dies tomorrow and I wanted to know how important the listen skill is to a half-giant? Since they can't sit at tables but by nature pay close attention to those around them, it seems like an important skill to have.

However, the guild and subguild that suit the background don't have the listen skill, so I'm a little torn.

Opinions?

[EvilRoeSlade]

The listen skill is very important.  The only worthy substitute to it is interacting with characters that will pay attention to you as a character.

[Agent_137]

follow your background. Ignore skills.

Sure, listen might be really useful....but in all my characters that i've ever written up, i've followed this advice and been served well.

[X-D]

Hhhmmm, on the point of a half-giant, don't listen to agent-137.

Playing a half-giant without listen is PAINFUL. And somewhat unrealistic to me, considering HG mentality and how interested they are in other people.

For me, listen ranks as about 95% must have on a half-giant.

Take the main guild that fits the backround then pick from one of the subguilds that gets listen.

[Anonymous]

I don't rate it quite as highly as other people do, apparently.  Mainly because a half-giant's curiousity makes them have an automatic reason to start a conversation with anyone.  Moreover, their size and disposition normally results in half-giants being given a lot of leeway in social situations.

No matter what you do, however, you absolutely have to have your half-giant start each sentence with 'Me' and have them engage in all sorts of wacky hyjinx in public settings.  Perhaps have him wear a giant diaper and soil himself during tense moments.

"Me go boom boom."  Comedic gold if you ask me.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I hate you so much right now, Christopher Robert Woods.

[My 2 sids]

A.  Half-giants arn't cavemen, just slow.
B.  Listen is ABSOLUTLY important for half-giants.  Background is they've never been able to hear anything (being so far away) that they would have picked up on how to listen.  

:idea:  :idea:  :?:  :?:  :!:   How come half-giants don't come with listen skill?

[Anonymous]

I hate you so much right now, Christopher Robert Woods.

Hate feeds me!  I grow stronger!

[X-D]

No matter what you do, however, you absolutely have to have your half-giant start each sentence with 'Me' and have them engage in all sorts of wacky hyjinx in public settings. Perhaps have him wear a giant diaper and soil himself during tense moments.

"Me go boom boom." Comedic gold if you ask me.

Damm! I've been playing mine all WRONG!!!!

And on a less sarcastic note, true, that curiousity does give them automatic reason to start talking to anyone, a major reason why listen (to me at least) is so important. I find it hard to think that my HG would think Hey, what are they talking about over there...tell people at table, Hey, what ya talking about.

Easier to overhear then butt in with a question or comment. Combined with the fact very few tables/chairs etc support a half-giant's weight and if he/she is clanned or has a job, that gets very annoying very fast in a clan or out.

Like I said, playable without listen, but PAINFUL.

And nod to my 2 sids, always wondered that myself, half-giant curiousity about people and that they have never been able to sit at tables with others and being well above most crowds, you would think listen would be racial. Plus they have REAllY big ears:)

[Cenghiz]

Ops.. Should half-giants talk like.. blubbering?
I thought they talk like children, but with good enough Sirihish.. Nothing about speech in helpfiles AFAIR; so could someone please hint me?
Sorry posts in the middle were sent while I was typing :p.. There was an IC event that I shouldn't miss.

[Angela Christine]

:idea:  :idea:  :?:  :?:  :!:   How come half-giants don't come with listen skill?

Yeah!  Those gigantic satalite dish ears ought to be good for something.  A lower cap than any of the guilds that that get the skill though, generic half-giants don't need to be able to hear great distances or through doors.

The other benefit would be fewer half-giants attempting floristry.    A halfgiant mangling a small, delicate flower is just sad.


AC

[Anonymous]

Ops.. Should half-giants talk like.. blubbering?
I thought they talk like children, but with good enough Sirihish.. Nothing about speech in helpfiles AFAIR; so could someone please hint me?

It is easier to start off with what DOESN'T characterize a half-giant's stupidity. A common trend in the past has been to portray half-giants as speaking like Tarzan does in popular movies. While this is a player's prerogative, it is not particularly accurate. A half-giant is very observant to the habits of others, and prone to imitating them. There is no place where a half-giant would have picked up such bizarre speaking patterns, so it doesn't make much sense to have them.

Similarly, speaking like a child is not the most appropriate way to portray a half-giant. Very young children often speak poorly because they have not grasped the proper situations to use words in. As mentioned above, half-giants are very attentive to such things. It will take them longer to figure it out than it would a human, but an adult half-giant understands most grammatical rules - especially the simple ones - but might slip up on such things as saying "an" rather than "a" before a word that begins with a vowel. These examples, while specific to speech, really illustrate how all of a half-giant's thought processes work.

[Cameron0202]

Why dont they just auto add the skill listen to half-giants? So that you can always have it and pick stuff that goes with your background?

[Anonymous]

Why dont they just auto add the skill listen to half-giants? So that you can always have it and pick stuff that goes with your background?

I'd rather they make it so that Half-giants can 'sit' at a table with an echo they they kneel by it instead of settling on a chair.

Giving them an extra skill just because they can't sit at a table is taking it a little bit far.

[SpyGuy]

I agree with CRW on this point, it makes sense that half-giants would logically just kneel by the tables.  Not be listening to Lord Fancypants all the way across the room.

[Agent_137]

<------------ stands corrected.

I'd rather they make it so that Half-giants can 'sit' at a table with an echo they they kneel by it instead of settling on a chair.

Giving them an extra skill just because they can't sit at a table is taking it a little bit far.

Great idea.. They should be able to 'sit near' table.

A bloated half-giant is here sitting, near a small table.
Near a small table, a half-giant speaks.
Etc.

[ShaLeah]

A.  Half-giants arn't cavemen, just slow.

You're right, they aren't cavemen but if you mean they aren't stupid, you're wrong.

Possibly due to the magick which birthed half-giants, however, they are infamously stupid...

...half-giants (a race originally produced by magick, known to be as stupid as they are large).

[My 2 sids]

I just mean they arn't "me *ug* want sqeek-sqeek".

[ShaLeah]

I just mean they arn't "me *ug* want sqeek-sqeek".

They can most certainly be big piles of blubber and stupidity.  That is determined solely on how the thing was raised.  I've only played one HG but she was spoiled and preened and girly and easily flustered when she didn't get her way. She was raised to have a decent vocabulary but if she had been raised by say... a mute, deaf and blind gith, I think it's safe to say that she would have been uging all over the place until she learned different.

[Anonymous]

They can most certainly be big piles of blubber and stupidity.  That is determined solely on how the thing was raised.  I've only played one HG but she was spoiled and preened and girly and easily flustered when she didn't get her way. She was raised to have a decent vocabulary but if she had been raised by say... a mute, deaf and blind gith, I think it's safe to say that she would have been uging all over the place until she learned different.

Yeah, but that is a really...REALLY extreme set of circumstances.  Based on the docs your average half-giant will have a non-tarzan/childlike vocabulary.

[ShaLeah]

They can most certainly be big piles of blubber and stupidity.  That is determined solely on how the thing was raised.  I've only played one HG but she was spoiled and preened and girly and easily flustered when she didn't get her way. She was raised to have a decent vocabulary but if she had been raised by say... a mute, deaf and blind gith, I think it's safe to say that she would have been uging all over the place until she learned different.

Yeah, but that is a really...REALLY extreme set of circumstances.  Based on the docs your average half-giant will have a non-tarzan/childlike vocabulary.

By your logic then, to play devil's advocate, a 30 year veteran HG of House Oash could have the vocabulary of a noble or a Kadian HG slave who was trained to tidy up the warehouse would not only be fluent in Cavilish but would be well spoken as well from listening to all the merchants from the time it was trained.  How many giants have you encountered with a massive, well spoken vocabulary?

I should rest my case but I won't.
Let's be a bit more realistic, HG's that are not enslaved or adopted by a Noble House will probably be raised by do gooders or opportunists. I'll cede that they will readily imitate phrases of people who hang around them but I can not conceive that one would repeat "The socio-political status of the Reigner Supreme has been in dire need of militant restructuring due to the fascist nature of the former oppressors" and much less -understand- it. Half-giants are stupid. Period. It says so in the docs, vocabulary, the ability to say I instead of me, does not change that fact. Not all will be extreme one way but the fact is that they -are- stupid, how the player exhibits that stupidity is up to them.  I'd prefer personally to not be forced to conjugate correctly simply because the "tarzan-like" speech annoys some.

ShaLeah
-who can't even count the amount of non-sirihish speaking pcs she's encountered that cut out all kinds of words to portray a difficulty in learning common or a difference in speech patterns...

[Delirium]

By your logic then, to play devil's advocate, a 30 year veteran HG of House Oash could have the vocabulary of a noble or a Kadian HG slave who was trained to tidy up the warehouse would not only be fluent in Cavilish but would be well spoken as well from listening to all the merchants from the time it was trained.

That is absolutely correct and possible.

The difference is that the giant would probably mix words up and place them in the wrong order, or take a while to form their sentances as they try to sort out the words in their mind.

[ShaLeah]

In my opinion, feel free to agree or disagree, roleplaying a giant with a pathetic manner of speech is realistic and not only that, but probable considering their mental capacity.  If the tables were reveresed and said giant spoke with the eloquence of a highly trained aide, I would personally consider it unrealistic roleplay. A half-giant with tarzan talk -shouldn't- be opposed to, which seems to be the case.


I have not implied that unsavory speech patters would be the only way to roleplay a giant, I am saying that doing so would not be so obscure that people would look at the HG like he was on crack. The giants will mix up words, they will misunderstand them, they will use them inappropriately, pray tell, they may even call a dwarf a longneck!
It seems that it's hard for people to remember that half-giants are stupid. They aren't big humans, they're stupid. To me, they are the epitomy of social faux pas. How do you play being stupid? That's the bottom line.


I think I'll bow out of this one and maybe Callisto's thread can get back on track.  Good luck and have fun, proper speech or not.  

[Anonymous]

By your logic then, to play devil's advocate, a 30 year veteran HG of House Oash could have the vocabulary of a noble or a Kadian HG slave who was trained to tidy up the warehouse would not only be fluent in Cavilish but would be well spoken as well from listening to all the merchants from the time it was trained.  How many giants have you encountered with a massive, well spoken vocabulary?

None, because, again, you are using an extreme scenario here.

Not all will be extreme one way but the fact is that they -are- stupid, how the player exhibits that stupidity is up to them.  I'd prefer personally to not be forced to conjugate correctly simply because the "tarzan-like" speech annoys some.

It annoys me because it goes against what the docs say.  I don't pick and chose which documents I consider canon.  If the docs made it clear that most half-giants talked like the Hulk, then I'd do that.  And I'd enjoy it.

A common trend in the past has been to portray half-giants as speaking like Tarzan does in popular movies. While this is a player's prerogative, it is not particularly accurate.
...
Similarly, speaking like a child is not the most appropriate way to portray a half-giant.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I told you not to have your half-giant talk that way, ShaLeah.

[X-D]

I've seen well spoken multi-lingual half-giants in game, ones that have been around well spoken people of different languages of course.

And I have no problem with it. But I'm not going to go with the arguement of how he/she is raised, but who he/she is around and considers friends, the half-giant docs say they adopt cultures quickly, language is part of the culture and there is no reason why they would not adopt the language and the style of speaking rather quickly.

The only time I really see a half-giant having a tarzan like speach is if he is alone for an extended period of time, in which case he is likly to lapse into a more simplistic mode of speech...at least until they were around people again for a period of time.

When I'm playing a half-giant I pay great attention to the way his "friends" Speak and make him adopt the same patterns over time.

[ShaLeah]

As a player, if I want to portray my HG's stupidity by using me instead of I or believing the word for kank is templar then I do it.  Player's perogative.  It doesn't say it's wrong to do so, it's says it's not terribly accurate or the most accurate way to portray them. That wasn't a black and white, don't do this it's wrong, that was a consider other ways to show half giant mentality. *shrug*

I won't roll my eyes at the me giants or the child like giants, I think they're fun to train.  

[SpyGuy]

I agree, player's choice in the matter.  But have some reason for them to talk that way.  I think the mimic aspects of the half-giant are key, if he was raised and trained to guard spoiled Borsail noble children he'll probably talk like a child.  If he was raised with dumb as fuck commoners that used me instead of I, he'll probably say me instead of I.

Give it a reason.  If the halfgiant Bobo never hears another soul say "Me get booboo, me tummy hurt after mean man hit Bobo" then he probably will never say it.  Assuming he's around mercenaries though, something like this would be appropriate (off the top of my head and to me): "I jes' got cutted in me stomach, nasty fecker!"

HGs seem like one of the hardest parts to play.  They likely wouldnt understand proper grammar or complex word usage, but the I/me thing seems out of place for the majority.  If you have a reason IG though, I say do it.

X-D:  Awesome tip to watch your friends closely.  If I ever play a HG that will be on the top of my list of things to do.

[Anonymous]

As a player, if I want to portray my HG's stupidity by using me instead of I or believing the word for kank is templar then I do it.  Player's perogative.  It doesn't say it's wrong to do so, it's says it's not terribly accurate or the most accurate way to portray them. That wasn't a black and white, don't do this it's wrong, that was a consider other ways to show half giant mentality. *shrug*

I won't roll my eyes at the me giants or the child like giants, I think they're fun to train.  

It's also the player prerogative to play a homophobe.  Just not terribly accurate.

The way half-giants learn is from observing and repeating/mimicing, if my understanding of the docs isn't completely wrong.  So, logically, it follows that in order for a half-giant to go around talking like Bam-bam, he'd have to have spent a very large and very recent portion of his or her waking hours hanging out around people that speak in that manner.

Not to mention that baby-talk half-giants often lead to a very stilted and cliched brand of 'comedy' that detracts from instead of adds to a scene.  IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Give it a reason.  If the halfgiant Bobo never hears another soul say "Me get booboo, me tummy hurt after mean man hit Bobo" then he probably will never say it.  Assuming he's around mercenaries though, something like this would be appropriate (off the top of my head and to me): "I jes' got cutted in me stomach, nasty fecker!"

I love this example.  Thanks.  It's exactly the way I picture things and it coalesces nicely with the picture that the documentation paints that a half-giant would keep a decent grasp on the major grammar rules but might get tripped up on some of the more complex ones.

[ShaLeah]

Not to mention that baby-talk half-giants often lead to a very stilted and cliched brand of 'comedy' that detracts from instead of adds to a scene.  IMHO.

Your last letters said it all and we all know about opinions.  Next thing you know we'll be saying "I know plenty of people who hate/love that too so I'm right!"ing. I vote for let's not. Heh.
If every HG was a comedy relief it would get tiresome, I can't disagree with that but I for one like the comic relief provided by a funny and well played HG. IMHO there's nothing funnier than two HG best friends and to me it's not stilted or cliched, it's funny.
It's clear we disagree so how about, since we both know how we feel, we take this off the board and stop throwing more opinions at each other? Go figure, people disagree.  :shock:

[Bestatte]

It's also the player's prerogative for their character to think monogamy is the most appropriate behavior for them, and to think that characters who disagree are immoral. It's also the player's prerogative to RP a half-elf who doesn't understand why no one likes him. It's also the player's prerogative to roll up a dwarf whose focus is to grow hair.

It is -also- the OTHER players' prerogative to snicker at RP that flies in the face of the docs (including that quickstart), and to RP their characters' reactions accordingly.

If I saw a HG talking in baby talk, while surrounded by characters who speak in complete sentences or who use the stereotypical "Byn speak" or "Rinth speak" or "Noble speak" - you can bet your ass I'm gonna think it's piss-poor RP on the HG players' part.

The official docs (not the ones submitted by a player - the ones created by the staff) state very clearly that HGs tend to pick up the quirks and behaviors and speech patterns of people he is exposed to, and does so very quickly.

This is a "fact" of the game, just as much as it is a "fact" that desert elves do not ride mounts.

If you want to RP contrary to the official docs, then you should -expect- criticism unless you have a damned good explanation for it.

[Malifaxis]

I played a half-giant for a goodly amount of time.  Not an extensive tenure, granted, but more than a few months.

Listen?  Listen was important when I first started the PC.  I didn't have Listen.  I was bored as hell when everyone would go to the bar.  I'd sit there and do things, or go out away from everyone else.  I found ways to amuse myself.

You are a half-giant.  You can do damn near anything, and no one will really try to stop you.  So enjoy that part of it, instead of bemoaning the fact that you don't have listen.

Or, think of a way around it.  By the end of my first month, needing listen was no longer an issue, because people knew I was bored, but liked the PC and were supportive of my cause.

I'd put listen at about a 30% 'need' rate.  Follow your PC and background.  Any obstacle can be overcome with ingenuity.

[Malifaxis]

And just for the record, I will gleefully bitchslap the fuck out of anyone who does a baby-talking HG.

It's so fucking unnecessary.

[kiddgoth]

The bright-eyed, diaper wearing half-giant smiles over to Malifaxis and says playfully holding up four fingers...I am just fhree years ole!

[Anonymous]

Heh.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I did have one half-giant that didn't know how to talk.

He was only sixteen years old and I figured he just wasn't smart enough to have properly learned yet, although as I played him he slowly got better.

It wasn't baby-talk though, it was just a poor grasp of grammer combined with a tendency to blur words together.

I'm going to the store, would sound like "Imma go thstore!"

[UnderSeven]

This is a touchy issue.  No one wants to be told how to play their char.  As far as what the docs were saying, I don't think it was so much saying DON'T do this, as try and consider this.  Tarzan style speach would happen if a half giant heard it, or had some sort of mental problem.  Child like speach would fit the mental problem.  Who wants to play a half giant with a mental problem though?

Ultimately HG is a role play race.  There is no other reason to play one, unless you want to be a pk machine.  Personally I don't think that would last long, due to racial limitations.  Sure you COULD play a independant and brilliant half giant, but it might be the last one you play for a while.

As far as big ears go, they would have bigger insides too, thus bigger ear drums which would take bigger sounds to vibrate and would therefore make it so softer sounds weren't picked up easily, therefore I don't think that's a solid arguement for them starting with listen as a race.  The table idea is good, but untill it's there listen would be best.

One thing I might mention is people often play stuff that is against the docs, it's not rare..  But when I see it, unless it's really well done my first thought oocly is they are probably new to the game.