What do you think of these changes?

[Anonymous]

I was thinking about the game recently and figured these changes might be in order, lemme know what you think:

1. Players pointing at the rinth as a starting location get stripped of all but fifty sid and get a bonus dagger.  Maybe a full skin of water too.

2. Escaped muls that are caught by the city guards when they blunder into the gates during a sandstorm :oops: should be imprisoned until an immortal or player templar decides what to do with them.  Reasonable options: enslaving them again or sending them to the arena.

3. When you die a newbie death you should restart in the Hall of Kings, but this time you don't get your kit.  It's a new character right - so start fresh.  You loose all your goodies, though.  Tough knocks.

[un-logged-in Miee]

I know nothing of newbie death, as of yet so I can't comment on #3.  As for escaped muls, do they have an <escaped> flag on them?  How can the soldiers see the mul in the storm?  

I -do- like the first one though.  I had a brief PC in the 'rinth and she started out with about 800 sid.  800 sid for a rinther.  No rinther would ever have that much (unless they're like rich crime lord maybe) and I was under the impression you can't junk sid.

[Delirium]

I -do- like the first one though.  I had a brief PC in the 'rinth and she started out with about 800 sid.  800 sid for a rinther.  No rinther would ever have that much (unless they're like rich crime lord maybe) and I was under the impression you can't junk sid.

It's pretty easy to get rid of 'sid on stuff that won't really help you out, though. Get a few tattoos, that'll get rid of it quick.

[jstorrie]

50 'sid might be a bit on the low side.  Most Rinthers are poor, but remember that your starting money represents your character's total wealth, not just liquid assets.  A Rinth PC should probably be able to afford some cheap weapons, trashy clothes, and food for a few days.  Somewhere in the range of two to four-hundred 'sid might be in order.

[SpyGuy]

I'll only comment on #1:  No.

Junk 'sid fine add the command, or spend it on tattoos/stuff that your character would ICly own.  There are places to get "'rinth gear" that doesnt come cheap but is stuff any 'rinther might have picked up along the way.  

I'd also like to note that all 'rinthers arent poor, some are actually quite alot wealthier than your average commoner.  The 'rinth is a culture, alot like our modern slums and such.  Some drug dealers in the real world have alot of money but still live in the slums.  Why?  Because thats where they're accepted and what they know.

All that and newbie cash isnt IC, its an OOC concept you can spend how you wish.  Give it away, put it in a bag and junk it (that might actually work) or any of a million things.

[Gorobei]

If you junk a bag, the contents just spill onto the floor.  They don't disappear.  Just so everyone knows.

[moab]

All that and newbie cash isnt IC, its an OOC concept you can spend how you wish.  Give it away, put it in a bag and junk it (that might actually work) or any of a million things.

You say that, but if I mug your dude while you still have newbie cash, I get all that sid and its not ooc at all.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I'd also like to note that all 'rinthers arent poor, some are actually quite alot wealthier than your average commoner.  The 'rinth is a culture, alot like our modern slums and such.  Some drug dealers in the real world have alot of money but still live in the slums.  Why?  Because thats where they're accepted and what they know.

A rich rinther is a rarity.  She will need a considerable amount of assets, none of which are suitable or even possible for a character to start out with.

Incidently, a rinther starting out with the coins she does makes no sense.

[SpyGuy]

All that and newbie cash isnt IC, its an OOC concept you can spend how you wish.  Give it away, put it in a bag and junk it (that might actually work) or any of a million things.

You say that, but if I mug your dude while you still have newbie cash, I get all that sid and its not ooc at all.

No, you're in the wrong to mug a noob and take newbie cash.  Stealing from newbies before they have a chance to get their gear/waste their 'sid should be a punishable offense because its messing with the game (and by punishable I mean negative note on account or whatever).  Your character didnt pop into the game in newbie pants he's had all his life, hell he never has to ICly have owned newbie pants in his entire life.  The first bit of a characters life is OOC business for cleaning house and making the character you want due to your background.  If your mugging someone and taking their newbie cash, in a way your doing that.   So would it be fair or even IC to wait outside a Nenyuk bank to accost all those newbs who in their backgrounds saved up 800 'sid through hard work and are going to deposit it now since they had no choice but to carry it around?

ERS:  You're right, I was using a very extreme example.  That said, 50 'sid is a ridiculous example and it only gives you a barebones picture of the 'rinth.  You can buy what, one article of 'rinth clothing with that?  You can have ICly an entire wardrobe of second hand clothing, and that would probably run you about 400-500 'sid ingame.

I'm not opposed to lowering the 'rinth starting cash to 75 even 50% of what is should be.  But there is too much stuff a 'rinther can buy that would be perfectly IC to own that it shouldnt be lowered.

A 'rinther should have 50 'sid -after- they buy all their shit, not before.  Its a player's responsibility to play his character correctly and make sure his 'rinther doesnt have 500 'sid in the bank (unless its an exception) not the code's.  I'm in favor of code determining things, but this suggestion is ignoring alot of important factors.

Sorry if this seems a bit too polemic, just something I feel strongly about..err well and I need sleep.

P.S.:  Okay, dont junk 'sid in bags.  Buy expensive, wasteful eq and junk that.  Not as exact but it gets rid of your 'sid just as well.

[moab]

No, you're in the wrong to mug a noob and take newbie cash.  Stealing from newbies before they have a chance to get their gear/waste their 'sid should be a punishable offense because its messing with the game (and by punishable I mean negative note on account or whatever).

Actually, dude, targeting newbs is wrong...however, especially in the rinth, you can't always tell - since lots of folks wear newb lookin' clothes.

It ain't wrong to mug anyone - it's wrong to target newbs specifically.

[ashjpd]

I have never had a character in the rinth, nor have I ever started with a character there, so I don't know much about it, but if a guy is targeting newbs on purpose, and mugs lots of people, even if they are doing it on purpose and are approached about it oocly, they will just lie about it I bet.

[SpyGuy]

Actually, dude, targeting newbs is wrong...however, especially in the rinth, you can't always tell - since lots of folks wear newb lookin' clothes.

It ain't wrong to mug anyone - it's wrong to target newbs specifically.

Sorry if my response seemed a bit harsh but I stand by every word.  I was once mugged in the 'rinth, got in a fight and went at it with some guy.  In robbing me afterwards he took the time to OOCly ask how much 'sid I would realistically have after the encounter since I hadnt bought much gear yet and he knew I was a new character.

The fact is, if you mug someone anywhere who looks like a new character and they have over 500 'sid PUT SOME OF IT BACK!  You cant do this on a dead character, of course killing newbies for no reason is even worse, but newbie cash is a representation of things you would have owned your entire life, not just some 'sid in your pocket.

There is a fine line though, some characters save a good portion of their cash and dont put it in the banks either (thats especially a 'rinth thing to do).  I think its wrong for the average PC 'rinther to have more than say 50-100 'sid on hand after all is said and done.  But starting out with 50 'sid would make no sense and leave everyone there virtually naked and desperate for anything OOCly, items that they very likely could have owned through a life of scavenging and begging.  Lower it to an acceptable level but dont do away with the starting cash permanently.

A shop system/nenyuk branch in the hall of kings or a temp room after it might take care of some of these problems.  If you spawned in an OOC shopping market, after getting your skills/stats, you could realistically buy all the armor, clothing and weapons you would normally have and after that stash you 'sid in the bank.  Fewer newbie corpses with 1,000 'sid, more realistic harshness rather than noob corpse looting (a large factor in the zalanthas economy) and no more worry about over zealous muggers fucking up a character and their concept because they got greedy and stole some newbie cash.

Thats my take on it at least.

[moab]

SpyGuy>
Unless you are targetting newbs, what you get off of some dude is fair take.  I think that guy was wrong to give you anything his character wanted back.

Look, plenty of older 'rinth characters wear the newb suit - and plenty of outsiders throw on a newb suit when they slip into the alleys looking for black business.  They all look pretty much like newbies and they all have lots of cash on 'em.

I don't know about you but if I were to mug someone I wouldn't give them a whole lot of opprotunity to choose how much sid they're going to loose.

Maybe if they had a neon sign on their chest that said "newbie" I wouldn't, but in this case, especially, you can't tell a newb from a 10 day rinther.

Oh, except you'll never see the rinther, I guess.  :-)

[SpyGuy]

Moab>

I'm not going to change my views on this so its not going anywhere to argue it.  You -can- tell the difference between a complete newbie in the 'rinth and anyone else unless they're purposefully dressing like a new character (which I've never seen).  When I say newbie or new character I mean 15 minute old character who hasn't had a chance to spend their starting 'sid.  No, you shouldnt mug these people and in my mind you shouldnt take -all- their 'sid but should work with them to see how much would be realistic for your character to take.

Of all the people I've seen in the 'rinth no one that lives long has ever worn just the newbie suit's 4 standard items for his or her entire life, or even all that long.  At the very least they spend 20 minutes to buy themselves a cloak and a dagger and likely buy more with their starting cash.

I'm going to stand by my point that newbie cash is a mostly OOC representation of all the things your character would own or would have saved.  Mugging someone and taking that in the first 30 minutes of their life, a time that should be used simply for buying those things if possible, is wrong and my opinion is as simple as that.

If I play a 'rinther and end up mugging someone who OOCly I know is a new character, pull 1200 'sid from his unconscious body, I'm probably putting about 900 or more of it back.  I think we may be arguing here over the term newbie:  I'm perhaps using it too loosely to mean a player character that hasnt had a chance to buy anything beyond a noob suit.  If you're meaning a new player well, mug them all you want but I at least try to take into account the OOC stuff that their 'rinth rat likely wouldnt have 1000 'sid on his body for no reason.

Anyway, I stand by what I said and if you want to discuss this further feel free to PM me.  I think I help start a nice derailment here, my work is done  :twisted:

That said:

1)  Lower it to 50% and that makes alot more sense.

2) Good idea, damn muls.

3)  How is this much different than the current system?  But yeah, I feel you should repop in a city though have at least your noob suit on, no cash though.

[moab]

Alright, I agree to disagree on the whole newbie thing.  Moving on.  :-)

[gfair]

Actually, the idea of going back to HoK if you die within the first three hours sounds pretty good.

Add to that the deletion of the old body and everything on it.

The main problem with newbie death is other PCs seeing the body, then seeing the PC. It happened to me just recently, I saw a body, then saw the PC.

But I think the sid should be cut by half, or two thirds (leaving one third for the PC). 50 Sid isn't enough to live on if you have trouble finding people you need to make you sid.

[Stroker]

It really depends on the character's skills. Of course, if you choose a merchant in the rinth, an assassin, a warrior, or a ranger, as well as MOST magickers, you might have some problems. However, pickpockets and burglars can survive without much problems. In fact, you'd have to try pretty hard in order to live poorly with either of the two guilds. On the other hand, I believe the playerbase may be trusted with the amount granted presently to spend it in a proper way. That is, whichever way is realistic to their character.

[Tlaloc]

3. When you die a newbie death you should restart in the Hall of Kings, but this time you don't get your kit. It's a new character right - so start fresh. You loose all your goodies, though. Tough knocks.

When you 'point' to a location in the Hall of Kings, the game automatically gives you your starting sid/gear/accents and various other nifty things. Going through it twice would do the following:

1) Reroll your character. This is potentially abusable, as I could enter the game, get stats I don't like, reroll myself, get new stats I don't like, kill myself, and the point into the game, for a final set of stats that I may, or may not like.

2) Give you new starting gear/money. This might or might not be a huge deal, but its something to be aware of. Theres a possibility that someone could abuse the code by dropping thier gear/money somewhere, killing themselves, and pointing to the same start location nearby, thus effecticly, doubling thier newbie gear/money.

3) You could, theoretically, by pointing to two locations, possibly add extra accents to youself, making it harder for people to pin down where you're from.

4) Other, more esoteric things: Without getting into the gory details, a few other things revovle around your initial choices on where you 'point' and these things get added to your character upon pointing to a starting location. It might muck things up in ways we don't want mucked up, if players had a choice about pointing to another start location.

Its a great idea, though I'd much rather see something whereby newbie-repoped PC's get some new clothes/money (even if its just a fraction of what they got to start), just so a newbie isn't left with -nothing-.

[Akaramu]

However, pickpockets and burglars can survive without much problems. In fact, you'd have to try pretty hard in order to live poorly with either of the two guilds.

I disagree. My AI agility pickpocket ended up joining the Byn to not starve.  

[Armaddict]

You aren't a very good criminal.

[Akaramu]

It was my first character, give the poor newb a break  

[Delirium]

Perhaps re-popped newbies could go to a 'dead room' where they then have to type 'return' to go back to the game, whereupon they're outfitted in newbie clothes and given half their starter coin before popping back up in the start location that they originally chose - or, they could chose to die permanently. That way those that wish to restart can, but those that actually want to stay dead (they died in a public way or somesuch) can do just that, stay dead.

The other thing about this is that the room's description could clearly state the policies for them to read after they've died: i.e. they are a completely new person, etc.

[SpyGuy]

The other thing about this is that the room's description could clearly state the policies for them to read after they've died: i.e. they are a completely new person, etc.

Great idea, especially this last part.  For anyone that has ever had problem with this situation of comeback PCs, it'd be nice to know that there was a set policy on it.  That said, I'm not sure they're supposed to be a different character entirely, isn't that just one of the recommended approaches?

[Miee]

Perhaps re-popped newbies could go to a 'dead room' where they then have to type 'return' to go back to the game, whereupon they're outfitted in newbie clothes and given half their starter coin before popping back up in the start location that they originally chose - or, they could chose to die permanently. That way those that wish to restart can, but those that actually want to stay dead (they died in a public way or somesuch) can do just that, stay dead.

The other thing about this is that the room's description could clearly state the policies for them to read after they've died: i.e. they are a completely new person, etc.

Ooh.  I likes.  I likes very muchly.

After spotting a -very- Big Bad about a half-hour into my PC, I realized how upset I'd be after searching for and getting all my equipment , if I died, I'd be popped back in.

It's really the choice you've sold me on here.

[Angela Christine]

You get your starting money before you point to a starting location, not that it matters.  

However, if you want your 'rinther to start with less coin I think you can drop it right there in the Hall of Kings, I saw a pile of sids in there once.  Your strength is set to poor so no one will be able to pick up the coins, because their  encumberance is unbelievably heavy.




I would like to see resurected people have clothes when they come back.  There isn't much chance of abuse with just clothes, because usually you can only sell your newbie suit for around 50 coins anyway.  Hey! :idea:  Maybe they could repop wearing the black trousers and shirt that you wear while in the Hall of Kings, the oldskool newbie suit everyone had before regional newbie clothes were implimented.  You know, just for nostalgia for the old players.


AC