Reconciling character concept and stats

It's happened to you:


Description: "You see a powerfully built man with corded muscles."

Score: "Your strength is poor."


Description: "The woman moves with the grace of a gwoshi."

Score: "Your agility is below average."


Description: "The elderly man is feeble with the ravages of age."

Score: "Your endurance is extremely good."


Unlike most muds and mmorpgs, it is impossible to create a character concept that matches your stats, since stats are completely random. How do you reconcile the difference in Armageddon?

Have you ever wished up to have your description changed? The one-time reroll could help...or make matters worse.

When you roleplay, do you follow your characer concept or your stats? If the former, how do you reconcile being an emaciated merc that somehow deals out huge damage in combat due to having strength that is high codewise? If the latter, people will be confused by the obvious differences in your description and how you play your character.

Any suggestions?

[jmordetsky]

I've thought about this as well. But the proposed solution is worse then the disease.

If given the chance to adjusts their stats, even based on a fair point system, you would just end up with a population of Super Diesel Strong men uber tanks with crushing strength but an inability to move more then few feet.

Or a population of ninja like assasins who move like spider man but can barely lift a dagger.....

Only a few who actually created these chars, would play them realistically.

My 2 sid, don't wrap your concept to your stats. Come up with a statless BG, then a desc, then build your personality up as you play and let this be affected by your stats.

I wasn't actually suggesting a change in the way stats are assigned, although that's an interesting idea. One possibility would be to have the four stats randomized as usual, but give the player the option to assign those four stats according to his character concept.

So, you might start with:

Your strength is below average
Your agility is good
Your wisdom is extremely good
Your endurance is poor

Then, prior to pointing to your starting location, you could type:

"Exchange strength agility"

In order to have good strength and below average agility.

That way, you get the same distribution of stats you would expect in a random system, but you have the freedom to match those stats more appropriately to your character concept.

[Vega]

I would recommend being VERY obscure when it comes to describing your character just because you don't know what stats you'll get. Unfortunately, even obscurity isn't sufficient to describe nothing at all so you do have to hint at certain possible attributes. In which case, I've tried to stay near the middle and hint at slight leanings (i.e. wiry, athletic, etc.) though if they don't work out, it's not so extreme.

If you do get an extremely muscular description and you get poor strength, though there are ways to RP around it, I'd say that it'd be pretty hard just because you're caught the instant somebody else asks you to lift something. Which is why I try to veer away from making such extreme descriptions. If you get above average and your desc says you should have good, nobody'll notice. Just say it's the armor hindering you or you're fatigued.

[spawnloser]

The opposite side of this coin, if you describe your character as middle of the road but s/he has an AI strength, that SHOULD show in the character's description, as the people with that kind of strength are the people with modern day body builder type physique's.  It is difficult to justify certain things.  I would suggest wishing/emailing to the immortals asking what could be done either way.  Personally, I'd rather get stats and then write the actual character description.

[jhunter]

I know as far as getting stats knocked down, it can be done...I recently mailed the mud about this for a character concept.

[Pungee]

Unlike most muds and mmorpgs, it is impossible to create a character concept that matches your stats, since stats are completely random. How do you reconcile the difference in Armageddon?

When I was first starting, I had this problem. Then I learned to describe traits that didn't necessarily affect my stats, or describe them in a way that doesn't give away too much information. Everyone's got muscle, describe it without saying something over the top like "bulging with power". When it comes down to it, as long as you don't use words that sorta force the opinion of something out you should be fine. Ask anyone who weightlifts, what your muscle looks like has very little to do with your actual strength and the way you walk has next to nothing to do with your dexterity.

Good thoughts so far. However, I think the problem goes beyond creating a generic character description.

For me, the real issue has to do with the discrepancy in my character concept. I've usually written a good amount of background information on my character describing his upbringing, motivations, characteristics, etc. I would like to align my character's stats with that concept, rather than having to do the reverse. Why should your character concept be driven by a random system?

As I see it, the real reason for randomization is to prevent attribute twinking and minmaxing. I like the randomization system for that reason. However, it is an unfortunate side effect that the current system can result in a vastly different character than what you are trying to create.

What do people think about my idea above? Why not allow players to assign their four stats in the Hall of Kings by selecting where that "exceptionally good" goes and where that "poor" goes? You get the same benefits of randomization while allowing players more control over who their character actually is.

[jmordetsky]

Good thoughts so far. However, I think the problem goes beyond creating a generic character description.

For me, the real issue has to do with the discrepancy in my character concept. I've usually written a good amount of background information on my character describing his upbringing, motivations, characteristics, etc. I would like to align my character's stats with that concept, rather than having to do the reverse. Why should your character concept be driven by a random system?

As I see it, the real reason for randomization is to prevent attribute twinking and minmaxing. I like the randomization system for that reason. However, it is an unfortunate side effect that the current system can result in a vastly different character than what you are trying to create.

What do people think about my idea above? Why not allow players to assign their four stats in the Hall of Kings by selecting where that "exceptionally good" goes and where that "poor" goes? You get the same benefits of randomization while allowing players more control over who their character actually is.

I think it will take away from the randomness of stats and alot of people would either use it to balance themselves out or tank one stat, which would take away from the game.

I think you're not understanding the suggestion. It's not possible to "tank out" because you have the SAME four numbers you would have had anyway. The only difference is that you have the ability to assign those four numbers to the stats in a way that is consistent with your character.

In the Hall of Kings, you are told that your four stats are, for example: very poor strength, good agility, very good wisdom, and average endurance.

My suggestion is that you have the ability to instead have, for example, average strength, very poor agility, good wisdom, and very good endurance. You have the identical descriptors, but you are able to assign those descriptors to the stats in a way consistent with your character concept.

[Pungee]

I'll stick with random stats and deal the hand dealt me than deal with limiting numbers of 'starting stats'. At least with random stuff I have the chance of nailing four AI's.

With my idea, you would have the identical chance of "nailing four AI's". Again, it is identical to what we currently have except you get to determine where the labels go.

[Pungee]

So you're saying that whatever stats you normally roll you get to just move around before you leave the hall of kings?

If that's it then I can't say I'm really opposed to it. It seems fair and I don't think of a way to truly abuse it except that it would take away some of the fun of having a warrior with average strength and agililty but absolutely incredible wisdom because most people might move it around since the character is a warrior. I like those kinds of situations and enjoy playing them.

Yes that's what I'm suggesting. And of course that would allow you to create the warrior you describe if that's your choice. The point is that the player has the freedom to match the stats to his character concept.

[Tamarin]

I don't really let my character's stats affect the way I play him.  If he's weak, and has AI strength, I still RP him being weak.  Stats really don't make that huge a difference in the long run, and since I try and play fairly long-lived characters, it doesn't affect my character.

[sacac]

Looking weak and feeble may just be a cover for the elite badass your old man is
The woman may move as agile asa  drunken thing for all we know

[EvilRoeSlade]

Xerin, your proposal would not work.  If it would work, it would only work for humans, and I'm not even sure it would work for them.

This is how it works.

A human's strength might be a number between 20 and 40.  If he gets 40 then you might see absolutely incredible.
A half-giant's strength might be a number between 136 and 140.  If he gets 140 you might see absolutely incredible.

A half-giant's agility however, might be between 5 and 30.  If you get 30 then you might see absolutely incredible.

Note that a half-giant has a one in five chance of getting absolutely incredible strength.  However, he has a one in sixteen chance of getting absolutely incredible agility.  Therefore it would unbalance the half-giant if he were to switch his strength score with his agility score.  Furthermore, there isn't any good way to translate two scores with vastly different meaning.

Personally, I simply look deeper into my character for roleplay.  Most of the time it doesn't matter if he isn't as strong as my description suggests.

Yes, I realize that the attribute descriptors are relative to race. That's why I mentioned numbers earlier. You get the four actual die rolls and assign them to your four attributes, and the descriptors update accordingly. The numbers you assign represent a percentage of total for that race. Seems fairly simple to me.

[wizturbo]

Simple solution:

Assign your scores before your character rolls.

Example
----------------------------------------------
I'm going to make a human warrior.

I choose the follow order for my stats.

Strength, agility, stamina, wisdom.

That means, my highest roll goes to str, 2nd highest to agility, 3rd to stamina and lowest to wisdom.

This all is decided prior to seeing any stats at all, so you can't twink anything, its just part of the character design concept.  You could still receive all AI's, or all poors.  But in this situation, anything in between those two extremes would be distributed to the stats that best fit your character concept.

[Dan]

I like the random factor and dislike any way of assigning stats in any particular order. For some reason the fact that it is all random appeals to me, and I write "non-descript" descriptions. Meaning I leave things vague enough so that I can rp my muscles as big or small, or myself as clumsy or dextrous in the game.

In that case, you're free to simply go with what the initial assignments are. For those of us wanting to align our stats more closely with our character concept, the option would be there. Seems like a win-win to me.

[SykotikGith]

I disagree with this idea. I know that it is well-intentioned, and I'm not trying to knock it, but I just don't think it meshes well with Arm.

For one, it sends out a message that it is allright to focus on your stats. From what I understand, this is discouraged. You are not really supposed to think about your stats, and from what I have noticed, your stats don't seem to affect your character too terribly much. A char with below avg. strength does not make a poor warrior (just one that takes a little longer to win   )...believe me, I know...

It is very easy to RP around certain stat impairments. Besides you shouldn't be basing your character design around specific stats anyway. That makes things much more numbers-based, and uncomfortably close to H'n'S...

Thirdly, why is this important? How does it *really* affect your gameplay. You shouldn't be writing up a desc or background that covers the fact that your char could carry a full-grown Mek from the time he was eleven. Detail is all well and good, but it seems more reasonable to go with generic stuff.

As for the switching around of stats. At first glance, it sounds good and non-abusable. But, think about this. You suddenly get clans full of people with AI or Above Average strength. What then happens to those people who decide *not* to switch their stats?  They get pummeled moreso during sparring than they do now.

I say keep it random, and work with the hand you are dealt.

[Unicorn]

I'm probably being rather dim but genuinely so (as opposed to being deliberately obtuse to make my point ).  But I genuinely don't understand how stats would affect your character concept.

Stats are a totally OOC thing.  They are code and are there to support code-based stuff.  Only you, the player, knows that your "agile, nimble half-elf" has really low agility.  Other players can't see your stats.  And if somehow (in ways that escape me) they can tell that your character has low agility they are being twinks for even thinking of it.  Your character is the person that is presented through your RP.

[Angela Christine]

Just a note:  adjusting stats in the hall of kings wouldn't work, because in the HoK all your stats are poor.  Your stats don't get assigned until -after- you point to a starting location.  



***

There are only two alternate stat assignment systems that I advocate above the current system.

1)  See your two potential rolls (orignial and reroll) and choose between them.  You might still get a craptastic set of stats, but at least you won't know the agony of re-rolling your lousy stats only to get even worse stats.  When that happens it makes me just want to kill myself.  Not my character, myself.  For being such a big stupid head.

2)  Infinate rerolls!  Ok, maybe not infinate, but like 50 or 100.  You can still only reroll for the first two hours, but you can do it lots of times if that is what gets you off.  These rolls are unmodified, normal rolls for your race, so the chance of getting four really good stats is till very low, but it reduces the chance of getting such poor stats that the player considers the character "unplayble."  Since stats don't matter, it doesn't matter if some idiot wants to waste an hour rolling stratigically, right?


Angela Christine

I agree with Angela. You can't have it both ways. Either stats matter (and therefore the discrepancy between stats and character concept is significant) or they don't (and there would be no harm in allowing infinite rerolls).

In my experience, stats do matter. It is often obvious when sparring someone whether their strength or agility is good. Stronger people hit significantly harder, and faster people hit (or miss) more often. Endurance is obvious when you hit someone multiple times and they are still going strong. Wisdom is the only subtle stat, and even then it should have equal significance for your character concept and how quickly you are able to learn.

Yes, you can just ignore what score says. The point is that you should be able to create the character you want to create, instead of having the concept driven by a random system. Either you are forced to adapt your character to the numbers, or you risk presenting a character that is out of synch with what other players can clearly observe.

Not everyone is going to be drawn to a particular stat. They all have significance. I'm not asking for the ability to twink your character....the stats are still randomly determined. All I'm suggesting is that people be able to assign the four random stats in a way that is consistent with their character concept