Consolidation...

[Bhagharva]

I agree with AC, leaders bring people to clans. Having been the immortal for The Guild for a few years I can tell you all about fluctuating numbers. I've never been an imm that get's huffy when one of my leaders die, or I lost a chunk of a clan due to a battle. Players come back to clans like this. Even more, the clan still exists without the players.

I actually completely disagree with clan consolodation and believe that given more choices, the world is open to many more stories and adventures. I do, however, believe that putting caps on certain clans might be a soloution. We don't need three units of Byn, but one working unit would be nice. Nobles in general do not need to actively recruit guards, if someone wants to play a guard they will come to the noble. Kurac doesn't need as many players as it has.


As one of the current desert elf immortals I can tell all of you that I do not consider delves iso, as they interact with the playerbase on many levels. Gith, Mantis and Halflings are another story entirely. There are currently two coded delf clans that you can apply for. There are also six others that are open for play and three of those six are currently coded or partway coded as well. These tribes have been open for a long time and while it may seem as though this would lower the city-players head count, its not so much of a pull off the GROWING player base that we have. Also, delves tend to live short lives and the delf role is so dangerous that it is usually considered to be an in-between role.  ATV and SLK both get about 4 or 5 active players in them at any one time. The others, none or less than 3. I can monitor who is getting into the ATV and SLK, the others are a little more 'open' currently. Yet, this hasn't been a problem.

I also get aggrivated when I hear someone whine about playing in clans, they feel like things are too structured or just can't handle authority. Yet the complaint is always boredom. If you don't want to be bored, make a PC in a role that interests you. Damn, if you pick house guard, expect to be standing around GUARDING! If you are a house servant cook, I have this stinking suspicion your going to be sent to the kitchen a lot. Prepare for this when you are making your character. Just don't get yourself into a role that you consider boring and blame it on those around you.

Nobles in this game do a GREAT job of making life complicated for everyone around them. I see a lot of failed nobles. You wouldn't believe how many players have made nobles and stopped logging them in after only a couple weeks of play. They got bored, frustrated with the status quo and uninspired because they felt powerless. You know what I think? ADIOS MF. The successful nobles see past the sleepy days in the Traders Inn and move the world, slowly of course. I disagree with closing Oash or Tor, I've played in every noble house in Allanak and I can vouch for them all. Every one of the houses, including the ones up north have a rich history and I would rather see more houses open, having less wasted staff and more intruige.

Problem with intruige is few players are up for it and too many prefer mindless hunting or sparring. Bleh.

I disagree with closing any clans, in fact I suggest opening more. I suggest that since we will not be putting caps on clans anytime soon. You as players, monitor yourselves.  Work with an imm to get a role in a clan, encourage others to join if they can add to the experience and not just take up space. If you are a clan leader STOP hiring loads of morons. Because when its all said and done, your surrounded by morons. Hiring isn't about how many bodies you can get in. It's about finding people suitable for the job you have to offer.

That being said, we have a lot of newbies that need a little slack cut for them. Fine.. teach them how brutal it is here and make a good example for them. But don't surround yourself with a hundred newbies just because you can.

Hiring practices are a huge part of this topic, and don't get me started on ooc hiring. "Hey bud, come join my tribe the Ass Scratchers, we have 4 magickers and soon we take over the world!" Ugh....

[Anonymous]

I'm too lazy to look up the exact numbers, but it seems to me that there are maybe a half-dozen posters who continually post lengthy grievances, repost, and agree with each other's opinions on how the currently clans are dead in the water, need to be done away with, and the power needs to be given back to the common people!  Viva la revolution!  (tongue firmly in cheek).

I also get aggrivated when I hear someone whine about playing in clans, they feel like things are too structured or just can't handle authority. Yet the complaint is always boredom. If you don't want to be bored, make a PC in a role that interests you.

I am eternally grateful for Bhagharva's post.  This is exactly how I feel about it.  My current character is in a House.  The role is fun, there's a lot going on, and the other PCs in the House are having fun too.  There are currently more PCs having fun in said House than there are people whining about the current clan system.  If you don't like playing a guard, fine, don't play one, but don't try to turn around and take it away from everyone else.  That's sort of like suing McDonalds because you spilled coffee on your lap.  Coffee is hot!  Guards mostly just guard!  Will wonders never cease?

[Bestatte]

In my limited experience as a guard, I would have to say, guards do -not- mostly guard. Guards mostly follow their training schedule to get good enough that they can defend their employer, which ends up being completely unneccessary because said employer has their own NPC guard with buff l33t mad skillz already. And on days off, guards get to sit in the tavern listening to gossip or creating some of their own.

On the off-chance the employer actually leaves the estate without their mad leet buff NPC guard, chances are she's doing it because she does -not- want anyone to recognize her, and would walk around with a "generic outfit" with her hood up. The last thing she's gonna want is her PC guards to come running to her side, making it very clear that she's "someone important" that everyone needs to pay attention to.

In every case when I've played a combat-oriented character in a clan, my function was extremely limited and the clan leaders really -did- need to think of something to keep me and my companions busy. There would have been nothing at all to do other than train, eat, train, eat, train, sit/gossip, train, eat all day long without the clan leader coming up with "stuff." And that was even with a guard character. Fortunately my guard character's employer DID come up with neat stuff, and I commend the player of said employer for working diligently with his crew to keep the monotony to a minimum.

[Akaramu]

I like my current clan, and I will PK anyone plotting to close it down. Or die trying.  :twisted:

[spawnloser]

Bestatte, sure, the nobles have their L337 mad skilled NPC guards...but they are encouraged to use PC guards as much as possible.

[JollyGreenGiant]

Insert hint that it would be useful if nobles had the "who c" command here...

[jmordetsky]

To quote myself from quirk's post, which I think peeps should look at btw as it sort of looks at this problem from another IMHO more accurate POV:

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7919&highlight=&sid=ee1ff20a7e875b20d312907980a0ded1

Anyhow:

*takes a deep breathe*

Dismantle the god kings and knock down the city states

Set up smaller feudal territories ruled by the remaining noble houses/Templars and outposts and caravan camps run by merchant houses in their places.

Make them constantly fight for influence, repel the constantly raiding tribal factions etc, etc

Zalanthas sans uberpowerful ultimate power wielding god kings would create a world that was really filled with conflict.

*joe the radical steps off of his pulpit and gets back to work*

I started off just messing round here, but the more I thought about it, the more, while a huge overhaul, I thought would be loads of fun and make the game much cooler, and would elliminate the bordem factor of clanship.

I think Tek and that other guy bite. Why?

The whole "complete omnipotence" is what I think really sucks. It stops any organization large or small from making headway anywhere else because if you did, you'd get cut down asap.

If they were out of the picture sooooo much more could happen.

It would be cool to see Salarri forces out right warring with Kurac for the rights to exclusive trade routes into Borsail territories because of the massive losses they received when Kurac set up a blockade somewhere on the north road and stopped them from moving in on the spice trade to Northern Templaric State.

Or Borsail cut a deal with Salarr on the grounds that Salarr would cease supplying Winrothol with armaments and Borsail could gain advantage in the war currently waged over a stretch of land in the tablelands.

This would give social type clanned chars lots of *real* intrigue, clanned combat chars missions to execute. And indepdents a chance to try and slice off a crumb here or there, establish routes between states, warzones to avoid, even claim their own markets, territories.

Tribal hunters could finally start being more territorial, as they wouldn't have to worry about Teks fireballing their village and sending his army tp walz all over them because they took out a Kadian caravan for hunting on their grounds.

I feel like everyone is just buddies now...sure the north and south hate one another....but whats that have to do with Joe soldier in Tor? He's collecting his paycheck hanging out in bars and showing up at drill everymorning. Sure, hell do some guarding, maybe go on a patrol and kill a scrab. But what's he patrolling for? A gith..? oooooh.

What would be even more shit hot, is that on sat at 8pm when the mud was comming back up, clan imms told their clan leaders of IC changes. There is a contingent of X moving here. These people have made an aliance with those. We'll need to take this area to secure X. Y might be sending assassins to Z.

And further more that these things really mattered....because if X,Y and Z did happened, there might not be a Salarr, Borsail, Tor whatever, because their enemies *are* really out to get them. Instead of sort of out to get them.


I don't know...maybe I'm misguided.  Well, I am misguided, but thats besides the point.

[SpyGuy]

One of the problems with such a situation is that its not very sustainable.  Part of the reason status quo is so tempting is that it makes administration much easier.

That being said, it wouldnt be impossible for Noble/Merchant houses to engage is open warfare in the streets.  Tek/templarate folks just need to be ICly dealt with in some manner.  Look at Dark Sun and the fall of Tyr's sorceror king, it'd kinda be like that except maybe not a pansy democracy.

[Tlaloc]

Dismantle the god kings and knock down the city states

To put it into simple terms:

No.

To put it into slightly longer terms:

This would be a major change in the entire concept of the game. It would be like turning your Monopoly game into a Trivial persuit game. Or your tabletop D&D Game into a Vampire: The Masquerade game. Effectively, you're talking about no longer playing ArmageddonMud as we know it. Feel free to think its a good idea. But I wouldn't hold my breath, if I were you.

[jmordetsky]

Dismantle the god kings and knock down the city states

To put it into simple terms:

No.

To put it into slightly longer terms:

This would be a major change in the entire concept of the game. It would be like turning your Monopoly game into a Trivial persuit game. Or your tabletop D&D Game into a Vampire: The Masquerade game. Effectively, you're talking about no longer playing ArmageddonMud as we know it. Feel free to think its a good idea. But I wouldn't hold my breath, if I were you.

Well...obviously. All just theory...

EDIT (after some further thought): What I would actually like to know is a) Not so much if you thought it was a huge upheaval or if I should hold my breath waiting for it to happen, but how you feel about the concept itself. Do you think it's cool? Do you think it's lame? and b) Do you feel Tuluk finally ridding itself of Allanak was a major change? c) What if Tek destroyed tuluk? Would these be major changes, or just not game altering change? I'm of the impression that a free tuluk is a pretty game altering change. ihmo of course...