Maps

[Kankshat]

There should be maps in Zalanthas. We have scrolls. We have writing utensils. Why not? This would be very helpful to newbies or experienced players going to new villages. I know nobody can read and write, but there should be some way to read maps. Possibly symbols.

Anyway, I think this would be an excellent idea.

What do you think? Should people be able to write maps?

[Ralin]

Aren't there already -maps- in existance to some degree? I could be wrong, but I thought there was. -goes to look it up-

[Kankshat]

Ya I know there must be maps, but it would be better if they were items

eg.

-get map pack
-you get a crumpled map from you canvas backpack
-look map
-(there could be a map drawn by letters and symbols)

like:

_ _ _ STR_ _ _ _
HS               BAR            

(the "_ _ _" could be road and "HS" is house, "STR" is store and "BAR" is, you guessed it.

This could work.

[Pungee]

Small problem. Very few people in Zalanthas read and paper is a rare thing. Maps aren't terribly practical. However the few maps that are probably (if any) around I imagine are more like this.


The majority of this paper is a sandy yellow color. In the center of it is a depiction of a black walled place with many buildings. A dark brown line extends north and south. Far to the south a small cluster of buildings is near the edge of the paper.


Something like that where it's drawn so people don't have to know how to read words. It wouldn't be trouble for them not having labels since anyone who lives in that area could figure out what each place was.

As for maps of cities, I don't know. That seems a little difficult and like a waste of paper. More of an OOC thing you know? Someone who's lived in a city their whole life should know their way around anyway and if it's for people not from the city... Why would the residents want them having a map?  

[Seeker]

Maps do exist, and can be made and created as items IG by characters.


Seeker

[Pungee]

Maps do exist, and can be made and created as items IG by characters.

That's pretty neat.

[My 2 sids]

Small problem. Very few people in Zalanthas read and paper is a rare thing. Maps aren't terribly practical. However the few maps that are probably (if any) around I imagine are more like this.

There were maps/drawings/scrolls long before people were literate and even before people could read and write.  There is a huge difference between learning to read say, maps,  and being literate.  Therefore, I could see the majority (well, many anyhow) of people learning to write and read maps.  For those still unconvinced consider this... American slaves were not allowed to be taught reading and writing, but many of them were taught some form of written documentation such as their mark (instead or writing their name) and... mapmaking.  

As for maps of cities, I don't know. That seems a little difficult and like a waste of paper. More of an OOC thing you know? Someone who's lived in a city their whole life should know their way around anyway and if it's for people not from the city... Why would the residents want them having a map?

Two ideas.   First, the maps in the documentation could simply be redone.  The truth is that even if the –character- has lived somewhere their whole lives... the –player- has not.  I think a lot of frustration comes trying to make a character who knows what they are doing when the player does not.  My other thought would be to make new skills or even a new cartographer subclass.  This way scrolls and such skills are still rare, but in the case of maps, not illegal.

[Pungee]

Small problem. Very few people in Zalanthas read and paper is a rare thing. Maps aren't terribly practical. However the few maps that are probably (if any) around I imagine are more like this.

I should clarify this. I was referring to the idea of having a return when you type read map that carries with it a sort of visual representation like someone else depicted. You know like BAR for bar, etc. I think the idea of a described map EDIT: of which I gave an example of previously is perfectly awesome. But a sort of like ----BAR---- thing is eh... Not so appealing to me.

Two ideas.   First, the maps in the documentation could simply be redone.  The truth is that even if the –character- has lived somewhere their whole lives... the –player- has not.  I think a lot of frustration comes trying to make a character who knows what they are doing when the player does not.  My other thought would be to make new skills or even a new cartographer subclass.  This way scrolls and such skills are still rare, but in the case of maps, not illegal.

I tend to agree, it makes it a little bit easier if theres some OOC map. However, I think the map should be very basic if there is one for each of the cities. Incredibly basic. This isn't out of any sort of elitist idea it's just that a big part of Arm is experiencing it for yourself and so any OOC maps should probably just include the basic locations. How to get to the marketplace, where the bars are at maybe the locations of a few major roads. In my little opinion anyway.

[Dan]

A word of advice: Work very closely with the imms on this sort of thing. Go ahead and map something in excel, send that in to the imms and change your objective. If you put the appropriate amount of work into it and have the right supplies in-game, you may have a map on your hands. I know becuase I have made a few that don't require the 'reading skill' to look at.

[Delirium]

Also keep in mind that map-sharing between players, even if it's for the sole purpose of making an ingame map through the combined efforts of two characters, is frowned upon.  ;)

[UnderSeven]

My problem with this is I question how realistic it would be.. For a few reasons.

First of all, drawing an accurate map in real life that anyone can understand isn't actually that easy.  I can't tell you how many times my father's directions have failed me and more often than not we resort to words.  The reason is because in arm the world is divided into rooms and it is easily mapible because no matter what, everyone will see the same amount of rooms between traders and the gaj. This however ISn't how things REALLY are.  Despite how the mud is depicted to us OOCLY, we would be more or less abusing that to have maps represented in such a way.  

Second, it's a lot of work.  Drawing a map that is more than scribbles would take real life effort, for your char IN game.  While we might just type a few things, I can't see some vendor selling your map of Allanak to tourists.  The fact is most pcs who are made in allanak grew up there and therefore wouldn't be wasting their monies on pictures.    I'm affraid I think the help file map is as good as it should get for the newbie helping aspect.

As for maps in the cases where it IS appropriate, such as ruins you discover or something, where your char actually sits down and puts effort into it and you don't just reflect the map like the mud rooms since your char wouldn't see things that way, I think it's best left to imm assistance to prevent abuse, this could be waaaay to easily abused, there is a reason read and write is a skill that few people have, afterall.

I might like to conclude, I really doubt the templarate are going to be too keen in either city with heavy map making and heavy map use.  Pictures are really the grass roots to literacy, while it maybe a huuge step, if you have people drawing a symbol that means something, eventually it could develop into a simple written language and there is a reason it's illegal, they don't want written languages.

[Dan]

I might like to conclude, I really doubt the templarate are going to be too keen in either city with heavy map making and heavy map use.  Pictures are really the grass roots to literacy, while it maybe a huuge step, if you have people drawing a symbol that means something, eventually it could develop into a simple written language and there is a reason it's illegal, they don't want written languages.

Well, you just might be wrong here. If you aren't wrong though, for arguments sake... so what, it would be frowned upon and is something the templarate would deal with in the game.

Also, we work with what we have, and it is hard to make a map that isn't done with rooms since this is how the game-world is set up. Since everything must go through the imms before being put into the game, I fail to see the problem with characters making maps and then going through the appropriate channels to have them made into IG items.

[SpyGuy]

I'm against NPC map sellers and lukewarm on the PC idea.  I think having maps be common or sold by NPCs will cheapen some of the interaction aspects of the game.  If you want to get directions to those uber-ruins then by all means, go ask an experienced PC.  Don't go to the local map seller... it seems cheap to me.

As far as for personal use, its ok but something that should be done with care.  I think along with every map an imm considers to implement should be 1 or 2 logs detailing very vividly how the player is RPing it out, like the actual mapping process.  And remember that drawing a barrel to represent the Bard's Barrel isnt exactly writing.. but its close.

As far as mapping from room to room, remember that not all rooms we see are the same size.  If your mapping from some ruins to nak, put the ruins in the vague area of where they would be, its doubtful your character has the tools/knowledge to measure distances of miles and have them accurate.  He would know its to the north-northwest of 'nak, not the exact number of miles.  And make your maps with small flaws, make it interesting.

And for every legit map people make I want city elves dressing up like their desert kin and forging fake maps to trick those damn roundears.