New skill idea...

[Freman Scum]

This would be a warrior skill, perhaps also for assassins, rangers, and other militant classes, and perhaps such subclasses as caravan guards, guards, mercenaries and the like.

It would compare either two weapons or two pieces of armor.

Like any skill, at first it wouldn't function well, and the smaller the difference in the two items, the harder the check (I'm not a coder, but I imagine an equation in the script could accomplish this).  My reasoning behind this is if you compared a dagger to a poleax, it would be easy to spot which would hurt more, where as a dagger and a knife would be much harder.

Skill Compare  (Perception)  


This command allows a person to compare the weight and quality of two armor or weapon items currently in their inventory.  This comparison would give compared weight and protectiveness/damage.

Syntax:

Compare <object1> <object2>

Example:

>inventory
A new scrabshell gorget.
A new kankshell neck guard.

> compare scrab kank
A new scrabshell gorget is less protective than a kankshell neck guard.
A new scrabshell gorget weighs less than a kankshell neck guard.

I like it, but with it I can imagine you'd see everyone eventually walking around with the same pieces of armor because they know from compare that it's the uberbest. Seeing gobs of warriors using the same armor, same weapons etc. would get very old.

[krelin]

Not necessarily, since the definition of "best" would vary depending on your criteria.  Some people may want armor that looks cool more than effective protection.  Some people may want light armor over heavy, and some people might just want cheap, serviceable armor.

True, but even then you'll get the 'best' of medium armors, light armors, heavy armors, swords, hammers, axes etc. I do like it... but I see too much potential for abuse. Looking at the description and value is pretty much the best way to do it, even though some descriptions aren't.. well, the best for determining how 'good' the item is, though more well crafted items would probably have longer and fuller descriptions.

[Sephiroto]

I love the idea.  I am always unsure which piece of equipment is lighter or stronger.  Most of the time though, I just want to know what is lighter.  It took me the longest to figure out that Mek hide was heavy.  Heh.

[Angela Christine]

If you just want to know which is lighter, the value skill already does that.  If you don't have the value skill, or a friend with the value skill, there is a guy with a scale in Allanak who will tell you what things weigh.  It's not perfect, I think anyone should be able to tell approximately what things weigh, but it works.

Angela Christine

[Sephiroto]

Thing is AC, when you are something such as a warrior, value NEVER seems to work.  Now when you are out in the wild and you find this abandoned piece of equipment or any other items, logically you could hold one thing in one hand, and one in the other and compare weights.  Now, without the value skill, and without the scales, how is one to know which is heavier?  Perhaps the "compare skill" that is afore mentioned could be a variation of assess.  Just as you assess your height, weight, and age with another, why cant you do the same with objects from an equipmatical point of view(made that word up, guess it works).

assess -v bone to obsidian

A new bone breastplate is lighter than a new obsidian breastplate.

A new obsidian breastplate is stronger than a new bone breastplate.

A new bone breastplate is more flexible than a new obsidian breastplate.

[John]

Okay, I like this command. I was iffy at first but I've come around. However I don't think it should say "X IS better then Y" but "X SEEMS better then Y" and have it that if X and Y are very close then it's harder to tell which is lighter and stronger. But if X and Y are miles apart (like silk and obsidian) then you should get it right every time.

I also don't think it should be a skill but rather a command anyone can use like tell and whisper.

That's just MO.

[Rindan]

I personally would be content if compare would just tell  you which of two things is lighter.  I really have no desire for compare to tell which is 'best'.  I think that it is the sort of things that either makes sense, or you simply learn the hard way.

[creeper386]

Hmm... I think perhaps that assess should be made to include a rate range... You assess say... A small piece of leather, its very light, then assess an obsidian breatplate it comes up extremely heavy...

Have different ranges like that... Dependant of strength... And then people with the acctually value skill gets the VALUE of it as well as the exact weight.

No compare skill needed... Although it might take alittle coding I don't think it'd be any great revamping needed or anything... Just would have to have the time to do it...

But I think adjusting the assess skill would be better... No need to compare or anything... I think if people know this is better then this... Alot of the outside influences like what everyone else wears and such wouldn't matter...


Creeper

I'm going to have to agree with creeper, I'd rather see assess be tweaked to included weights. I guess you could always drop the two things, then pick them up and see what message you get, but I usually just get "It's very light" for anything so...

[Master Z]

Thinking about the value skill got me around to considering an idea. What if items that one foraged for had a certain range that their value might fall in? For example, if you forage up a rock, your character might not be sure how to tell how pure / useful / valuable the rock is (it would have the same sdesc and desc as all the other kinds like it). Thus, the value skill would let you assess it and decide if its a keeper. As a kick, maybe even make more "valuable" materials have a crafting bonus (since their supirior and easier to work with).

Say you foraged and found a gem, someone with the jewelry making skill (and hence has a good "value" skill level for jewelry). You could assess its value, maybe throw it back if it has a low value saying it has imperfections or minor misshapenness that make it less valuable. (I'm not sure if the value skill actually varies for different item types depending on if you can craft that kind of item, but I think the point persists regardless).

Anyway, not saying we should or shouldn't do this. Kind of throwing it out there to see what people think.

[Master Z]

That was supposed to be a new thread, but oh well.

[John]

I dunno if I like it or not. This idea is implemented with a variety of rocks being worth more then others depeding on their desc, this would make it even harder for starting crafters.

Okay, I just thought of a way to make this idea better (IMO). You have the range but it doesn't affect items that starting crafters can make, it only affects if you can make more complex items. This makes sense ICly because the starting items are pretty basic however as you get more complex the rocks you use, would have to be more perfect, thus the range comes into play.

All just IMO.

[Master Z]

I didn't think of it effecting what you can make... I think what I meant was a better rock will have a lower chanse to break when working with it. Interesting thought though.

[John]

Oh okay, well in that case I like the idea even more then.

[Eternal]

Isn't there a form of this already implemented... I mean, considering that the only unit of measurement known to Zalanthas is the stone (kilogram), most armors and weapons usually weight between 1-20 stone (most I've seen).  Picking up the item tells you how heavy it is related to your strength.  (My favorite message:  You pick up the head of the stupid, lanky elf, it is very light and empty).

As for being able to compare quality... quality is highly subjective, some would be looking for balance, others for weight, and still others for sharpness, or swinging speed.  I think all of that is better roleplayed and time spent conversing with Salarri-employed people, who -can- learn the difference in armors and weapons, though it isn't hard-coded.

[halfbreed]

bump, i like it!

[LoD]

I think that refining the way to compare relative weights of objects in the game would be beneficial, but I'm not a big fan of some way to evaluate a coded benefit for weapons or armor.

I believe that creating a way for players to assign quality based on coded numbesr behind a piece of armor or a weapon would only lead to players quickly discerning which pieces are the 'best' and using them.  People would select gear based on statistics rather than availability, realism, role play, looks or anything else.

For those who say it would not effect them, you're not who I am worrying about.  I am talking about the groups of friends that tell one another that they heard from a friend who's an Imm that a particular weapon gives you +5 offense and +10 parry and all of a sudden, they are all sporting the same weapon, character to character to character.

When I was building, I'd get plenty of requests for weapons to have an extra edge over the others by being barbed, serrated, hooked, REALLY sharp or an equally silly amount of other features with the hope that their blade would be superior to the one they presently have.  We all want the best that we can get, but I think creating a way to unveil the mystery behind which weapon works better would be a mistake.  Find out IC.  Try out both of them and decide which one is best for YOUR character.

Weight would be easy to tell and it IS coded into the game in a couple of different ways, but I think a skill to compare which is physically heavier wouldn't take anything away from the game or be unrealistic.

-LoD

[Cenghiz]

C'mon!... This game's real. In real life you can't compare a sword. You may try it for some time to know that it's fine or not. You want to compare? Practice it with a friend or on a scrab. If it just scratches and your old weapon chops/slashes etc, you will use the old one, for example... It is more realistic. I DON'T want to have such a command. It's twinky.

[gfair]

Looking at this skill as is, I tend to think what this will do is turn into a ton of comparing to start off with.  However, as time goes by, I see little reason why the power gamers wouldn't eventually see a list made up of the strongest armors and deadliest weapons available.

So you would have all sorts of people taking off all their armor, exchanging all their weapons, slowly keeping track of what the best is. Now, while money would be the limiting thing for those that don't come into some easy sid (like finding a newb merchant dead with starting sid near a city), those who do come into that easy sid will be able to continue to upgrade to the best, compare, compare, compare, find something better, sell what they have, and again upgrade.


There is a fundamental issue here - adding quantitative measurement back to a game that thrives on the qualitative.  That is, adding tangible, comparable numbers into a game based on code values, versus your own, opinionated, subjective values on these same items - for how else does this skill work, but to compare protection or damage codes between items?

No - read the description, I say.  We have enough avenues through which people can find out how good something is - these avenues require patience, awareness, and overall a general enthusiasm for this game and for due diligence, whereas a single coded skill will ruin that possibility.  We all know the game must have hard numbers for it to work... let's leave those numbers where they are - hidden from the user, and not available through a one-layer abstraction.


As for Z's idea I like it.  Gonna make a poll?  

[halfbreed]

Let me clarify...  I'm with what LoD said.  I'm hoping for a compare command that  will compare weights, not actual combat stats.

[Carduus]

I agree with the compare weight thing. I might even agree with a flexibility one, for those that don't wish to be burdened with their armor. But raw quality of weapons and armor is way too powerful to have access to.

[creeper386]

This could have various things if you are comparing weapons or armours. Weight could be one of them. Flexibility of armour another. I'd say make it so you can compare only weapon types to other weapon types. Could figure out this sword is sharper, or this club is heavier, but that doesn't always constitute the sharper sword does more damage, and maybe the lighter club and big ass spikes on it or something.

I'd say if it was implemented I wouldn't have a thing of this is better or this is better but just comparing hard facts. NOT comparing this does more damage, or this protects you more, although with alittle figuring you might get a round about idea on that, you wouldn't be out right blatantly told.

For people that are afraid of people making lists of this armour being best and this weapon being best. It can already happen. People use enough things they end up getting an idea of whats better and whats crap. If they want to make up lists and pass it around they can already do that, and it'd probably be easier to do that going through 10-20 character then it would to get one character have way decent at a skill that only tells what you character would figure out and doesn't tell anything about coded numbers.

Creeper