Not enough players on non peak hours.

[Ronberk]

Crossposted from Ask the Staff

Isolation due to the lack of coordination is discouraging the number of people who would play during non-peak hours.

It's my opinion that there are an untapped number of players who would play actively during non-peak hours but are discouraged by the isolation that such efforts would entail; the playerbase is just too scattered for them to have any decent interaction with another PC. Learned response comes into play, as once it's been established in their minds that there won't be anyone playing in the same game area, they will just cease to log in. Solo RP can only sustain so much attention.

My proposed solution would be to create a thread on the GDB where off-peak players (or people who want to play at off-peak hours) would post anonymously their playtimes and homecity locations. If they are a member of organizations (or even independants) that provide services that players would need, they would also state that in the post.

Examples, would be:
"There is a Salarri representative to be found in 'Nak between hours X and Y."
"I am a hunter based in 'Nak between hours X and Y."
"I am a stone-crafter based in Red Storm between hours X and Y."

I would like to know what people think about the problem, and if they have any alternative solutions to it. Don't get too focused on my solution, if you don't like it, please propose another one that might help encourage people to play during non-peak hours.

[spawnloser]

Well, I see this in two ways.

First, yeah, solo-rp all the time can suck.

Second, there is always a Salarri representative or a hunter in 'Nak between any playing times.  There is most likely always a stonecrafter in Red Storm between any playing times.  You have to figure on NPCs and VNPCs...though, that doesn't help you get some non-solo-rp.

If you're going to play a character during non-peak hours, you may want to try to locate yourself in one of the larger homecities so that you are more likely to run into someone, as there is nearly ALWAYS someone on.  That solves the problem of isolation, to some extent.  Granted, that kinda rules out the more isolated areas from your possible homecities, if you were to do this, but you would be the one picking the homecity.  If you pick an isolated one, a small one that no many people would be playing in, expect that to be an issue.

[grog]

The answer is very simple, saturation advertising for those places that play during YOUR peak hours.   Take up a donation for the ad, and then put it everywhere in all those areas that would have the same peak hours.  Think about it, if you get enough people on during your play times, you could become the next majority, immortals would plan RPT's for you, templars and nobles would have to be able to play during your play hours to get the job.  Everybody else would complain about how they only have 50 or so players when they are on.

[Quirk]

To respond to Gilvar:

An anonymous posting of "I play between hours X and Y" with no other details doesn't really help anyone. If you're looking to make an off-peak character who'll get some interaction, knowing that there's a merchant or two in 'Nak playing at those hours or a few hunters in Tuluk is potentially very useful in getting people together. Knowing that other people are playing at those times (via an anonymous posting) is about as helpful as typing "who" and seeing that there are indeed other people online at that off-peak time, although not many.

Posting non-anonymously and co-ordinating OOCly on playing times is another option, of course, but an general anonymous post detailing the social sphere and area active at that time allows people to meet up with much less exchange of IC information, which IMO is a Good Thing.

Quirk

[Gilvar]

well I meant you can include what city and location, as people did in the old post, but I don't think: "Im a salarri merchant playing between 2 and 5 in Allanak" is appropriate.

"I play during 5 and 2 in Allanak" is fine however.

[Quirk]

Well, if it's anonymously posted, there's no way to link said Salarri merchant or hunter to a particular person, and it gives an idea of the social circle the people are moving in. If you create a silk-clad aide type and find out everyone else in your time zone is playing hunters, is out most of the day and attends different taverns at night, you won't see much RP. Conversely, if you make a low-life 'Rinth rat and everyone else in your time zone is a Trader's denizen, you won't be seeing much RP either. Knowing someone's theoretically in the same city doesn't help a lot, and we have enough silly crossing of social boundaries as is.

Quirk

[Ix Machina]

It also creates a problem where say your Salarri merchant dies but noone knows about it. Now your post is completely invalid. How do you cross-post and say 'Oh! Sorry, Salarri merchant died!' without giving away IC information? This is not to mention the linking of player and character in the game that we try to avoid and discourage as much as possible.

This is the problem that giving such detail poses... what to do when the information is no longer relevent, or so specific that it is easy to figure out who the player is by one sentance posted on the boards.

The best thing to do, then, is to simply not give that sort of information out at all and go with a more generic: 'Does anyone play in Allanak around such and such a time?'

[Angela Christine]

No specific descriptions or proffessions, it makes for too many potential problems.

Like:

I am a raider playing in and around Tuluk from 3-5.
I am a pickpocket playing in Allanak from 6-10.
I am a vivaduan playing in Tuluk from 6-3.

Nobody is going to post things like that, at least I hope not.  So what does raider-boy post?  Does he claim to be a "hunter" (ie. hunter of men)?  Lying OOC to get an IC advantage seems wrong to me.

Or you might be creating a new character and see that there are already 3 stonecarvers active in Allanak, so you decide not to make a stonecarver in Allanak because there will be too much competition.  Or if you like conflict and shop-camping, you might decide to make a nakki stonecarver instead of the Tuluki woodcarver you'd planned on apping.  

You don't have to be a terrible, abusive player to do things like that.  When you have that kind of OOC knowledge it is hard -not- to use it.  It leads to angst and self-doubt, because you can't be sure if you are reacting to the info, or over-compensating and still changing your IC behavior in an attempt to not be influenced by the OOC info.  It is a pickle I would rather avoid.

Better to leave the IC info out of it.  Playing times and location is enough to tell other players where to find people, without telling them what kind of people they will find.


AC

[Gilvar]

Or if you know there are thieves in the city you begin suspecting people on at the rare times. Because you know there are only a few people on, one has to be the thief, etc.

And if your not going to say your a thief, but something else misleading, its no help either. I stand by my anonymous, merely playing time and location thing.

[Petra]

I don't think the problem is encouraging more players to login at offpeak hours, so much as the attitude of many of the players who play then.  Which is, indifference towards any interaction whatsoever.  No one is forcing you to interact with someone, and no one is saying you have any IC reason to do so, but it's not hard to come up with a reason to interact, really.  I see people at offpeak hours walk right past me in a tavern or something.  They don't stop at all.  Or .. and this one happens ALL the time .. me and some other PC happen to be strolling down a road heading the same direction, the other one ignores my existance all together and continues on his merry way.  

Believe it or not, there ARE nobles and merchants logged in at off peak hours, but few people seem interested in using them for what they are there for: a catalyst for building plots/interaction.  I don't care if 100 players are online during offpeak hours, if the majority of them are content playing on their own, hunting/shopping/doing whatever, then there's nothing you can do.  You people need to involve yourself with others more.  If I see someone enter the same tavern as me, I'll find an IC excuse to interact.  If you want to call the roleplay police on me because I approached them instead of the umpteen vNPCs in the room, go right the hell ahead, but believe it or not, I play this game so I can interact with others.

[Quirk]

Well, at the very least give some kind of idea what kind of social circle your character moves in, even if it's only the taverns they hang round in. It's useless to have four people all in 'Nak at an off-peak time, one sitting in the Trader's, one in the Barrel, one in the Gaj and one in the Folley. If you're a noble's aide and I'm a 'Rinther, you may well be playing in 'Nak, but you could just as well be in Tuluk for all the good it does me.

Quirk

[Quirk]

It also creates a problem where say your Salarri merchant dies but noone knows about it. Now your post is completely invalid. How do you cross-post and say 'Oh! Sorry, Salarri merchant died!' without giving away IC information? This is not to mention the linking of player and character in the game that we try to avoid and discourage as much as possible.

With an anonymous posting (as I believe I've mentioned several times) there's no linking of player and character. I don't see there's a need to post to say the merchant is no longer around, and it would be preferable to post to mention groupings in any case - something harder to instantly invalidate.

Quirk

[Carnage]

It also creates a problem where say your Salarri merchant dies but noone knows about it. Now your post is completely invalid. How do you cross-post and say 'Oh! Sorry, Salarri merchant died!' without giving away IC information? This is not to mention the linking of player and character in the game that we try to avoid and discourage as much as possible.

With an anonymous posting (as I believe I've mentioned several times) there's no linking of player and character. I don't see there's a need to post to say the merchant is no longer around, and it would be preferable to post to mention groupings in any case - something harder to instantly invalidate.

Quirk

Right, but what if that person posts again with a the time and type of character as a guest? It gives the illusion of more people on and playing at that time as well.

[Anonymous]

I see people at offpeak hours walk right past me in a tavern or something.

That can just be spam-walking.

Believe it or not, there ARE nobles and merchants logged in at off peak hours, but few people seem interested in using them for what they are there for: a catalyst for building plots/interaction.  I don't care if 100 players are online during offpeak hours, if the majority of them are content playing on their own, hunting/shopping/doing whatever, then there's nothing you can do.  You people need to involve yourself with others more.

One time I found an excuse to interact with that sort of character, all through the use of a little VNPC, and have been having the time of my life since.

[Bhagharva]

No offense to anyone that actually considers this an issue, but my personal feelings on it are that if you need someone else to hold your hand while you play, you might be playing the wrong game. Prime time hours of EST are topping at almost 80 players now, the offhours imms are there and just as responsive as imms during the day. (Sure it may take longer and you -could- have some bad timing, imms aren't sitting and waiting for your beckoning.) Even at 6am EST there are enough players on in the world that you can run into a PC if you use your head.

Really, that is the key to it. Think about where the high traffic areas are and why it might be easier to find a noble or merchant if you actually looked.

That said, I do think that off hours could use some more players. So advertise. Get your friends to play. Get your enemies to play. Get your mom to play.

[Malifaxis]

I am whole heartedly against this idea.  Solo RP is something that must be mastered if one is to Arm, and the information grants way too much potential towards abuse.

You wanna interact?  Find people.  No people in your area?  Find another area.

I fail to see the difficulty with the equation.

[My 2 sids]

I think many here are misunderstanding what Ronberk is trying to say.  Nothing is being said that he wants to do away with all solo-play or anything to suggest

No offense to anyone that actually considers this an issue, but my personal feelings on it are that if you need someone else to hold your hand while you play, you might be playing the wrong game.

(that kind of quote is exellent whenever dealing with people who are feeling isolated and maybe unsure if the game is friendly) Wanting a lot of IC help or saying anything about Imm response.  What I see he him talking about is Isolation due to the lack of coordination is discouraging the number of people who would play during non-peak hours.  He's saying there should be some way so it's easier for non-peek people to get together.  This isn't anything new... in fact this is what Player Announcements and OOC communication is for!  To coordinate players and playing times!  What's the difference between trying to coordinate non-peek players and say "Hey, RTP happing on Sunday and 2pm est"?  

Even if his suggested solution might be a bit too IC, this is still a very valid question.  What can we do to help coordinate players? I think the better we answer this question the more people we will draw to the game.  About the only idea I could come up with are to post some player information.  The staff should have records they could easily make into a graph or something to show when and where there are players.  Nothing IC... more like a graph that would show:  At 10am est there are 5 pcs in Nak, 10 pcs in Tuluk, 0 pcs in Red storm.  Or:  Clans X and Y show the most pcs around during early morning hours (est).  This information I don't think would be too IC, rather it would give players an opportunity to see where they might look to locate depending on if they want a lot of interaction or not.

[Quirk]

Malifaxis, I generally have a lot of respect for you as a poster, but on this occasion you don't have a clue.

If the only thing you do on Arm is solo RP, and you never meet anyone else, you might as well sit and type up a story in a text file instead. At the end of it you'll have some kind of product out of your creativity, and you'll have had every bit as much enjoyment. While there shouldn't be a distinction between "solo" and "normal" RP insofar as you play your character, if you aren't meeting people at any point there's no reason for you to log on.

We're talking about seriously off-peak hours, Malifaxis. Not "there's 30 people on" off-peak. We're talking about "there's 6 people on" off-peak. European late mornings off-peak. As of the time I posted this, which is European afternoon, there were 11 players on. I'm not restricted to play at those hours, but I have played at that time, and it's damn quiet, and I have a lot of sympathy for those who can only get on at that sort of time.

You wanna interact? Find people. No people in your area? Find another area.

Think this one through. Seriously. So you want to interact with people with your current character, but you play at off-peak hours and there's no-one around. How do you propose you find another area? Even assuming it's IC for your Nakki patriot to up sticks and traipse across the world to Tuluk, making such a trip alone is likely to cause character death. Or are you recommending that people retire their characters and create new ones at the other side of the world, one after the other after the other until they find out where the other six people are playing? And aren't you assuming there that those other six people aren't doing the same thing and are waiting to be found?

So you're lucky enough to be able to log on close to peak hours. Good for you. Getting all high and mighty when other people complain that because they log on when hardly anyone else is around they have problems ever finding anyone to RP with doesn't suit you.

It's a vicious circle, really. People who log on at that time and finding no-one to play with get discouraged. After a while they log on less often. Arm loses players, and when someone new logs on at that time, the people who used to log on then do so no longer. Acknowledging this as a problem and brainstorming ideas to help resolve it is a Good Thing, IMO.

Quirk

[Ronberk]

I don't think the problem is encouraging more players to login at offpeak hours, so much as the attitude of many of the players who play then.  Which is, indifference towards any interaction whatsoever.  No one is forcing you to interact with someone, and no one is saying you have any IC reason to do so, but it's not hard to come up with a reason to interact, really.  I see people at offpeak hours walk right past me in a tavern or something.  They don't stop at all.  Or .. and this one happens ALL the time .. me and some other PC happen to be strolling down a road heading the same direction, the other one ignores my existance all together and continues on his merry way.  

It is my theory that the isolation of those hours have driven away players who are interested in interaction, leaving behind the players who are only interested in solo-rp. This is why PCs you encounter during those time periods are more likely to ignore your existence; you can't really correct their attitudes because that's their style of playing.

What I hope for is a solution to help people who enjoy interacting during those hours.

[Malifaxis]

Malifaxis, I generally have a lot of respect for you as a poster, but on this occasion you don't have a clue.

Sorry to burst your bubble, bud, but I am Mr. Off-Peak Hours.  Typically there are 10 (give or take 5) people on at my time.  I *am* restricted to playing at those times, unless I seriously frag my sleep schedule.  I work CST overnights... so either I'm logging on after work, when I have energy, or I'm waking up early, and RP'ing, and going to work tired off my ass.  So thanks for the slightly condescending tone and all, but perhaps you can see how utterly wrong you are.

As for traipsing my 'Naki patriot' half way across the world... yeah, there's *plenty* of reasons for it.  You give me any race, class/sub combo, and I can come up with a plethora of reasons for it.  Perhaps I'm just too creative.  And as for retiring or killing off your PC... that's absurd.

Any place you are, there's places near by that you can get to that are wildly different.  In Nak?  Hit up RSV or the 'rinth.  With a proper reason, possibly generated in part by those ever so helpful VNPCs, then it's totally probable.

As for brainstorming and help... perhaps look on the helper list, and ask a helper to give you advice on what to do.  As was already mentioned, possibly use the Player Announcements section of the GDB.  Or recruit, recruit, recruit, which I'm all about (or at least I think I am, as I've recruited at least 15 folks... 6 or 7 of still play).

And if all else fails... shit, feel free to PM me, and I can see what I can do to help hook the person in question up.  I've played all over, and most of the time I've played alone.  I'm a master of finding entertaining shit to do and causing a ruckus.  And if you're interesting enough... people will come to you.  It never fails to happen.

Sorry you don't think I have a clue, but the way I see it, a place to post what you are, where you are, and when you are is just asking to get raped.  Because someone, somewhere, somewhen, will use that information to their advantage, and will come stick a love-shank in your economic wet pouch.  It's bound to happen.  After all, not everyone can be as honorable as us, right?

[My 2 sids]

I fail to see the difficulty with the equation.
Isolation
The answer is very simple, saturation advertising for those places that play during YOUR peak hours. Take up a donation for the ad, and then put it everywhere in all those areas that would have the same peak hours.
I don't think the problem is encouraging more players to login at off-peak hours, so much as the attitude of many of the players who play then.
No offense to anyone that actually considers this an issue, but my personal feelings on it are that if you need someone else to hold your hand while you play, you might be playing the wrong game.
It is my theory that the isolation of those hours have driven away players who are interested in interaction, leaving behind the players who are only interested in solo-rp.

Granted, I didn't quote all of the posts so perhaps some of this was posted in a different context but look at some of what has been said here!  (Some by helpers or Imms who are looked upon as leaders of the game) After talking to a few individuals it has become apparent to me some of the non-American and/or non-peek time people are feeling unsure about this game and starting to feel like second class citizens.  And that's not right.  But then I read some of the responses of this post and wow, a lot of this is said in such a way that people could feel really hurt.  I'm not trying to tell people how to "be nice" but I did want to maybe bring to the attention of what is being said here.  

I realize the game needs to take the majority into consideration first and for-most.  That's life.  But, I think we could do more to make this game less threating to non-peek or non-American players.  Part of that is not saying things in a way to devoid what is a very valid feeling... that there is a part of the playerbase that not only is feeling isolated and frustrated, but flat out rejected.  Part of the solution may be to open more roles up to non-peek-time-players (many times a role is stated that one needs to be around during peek-times) and coordination between non-peek players.  But, a great deal of the solution is to watch how we treat each other.

[Quirk]

Sorry to burst your bubble, bud, but I am Mr. Off-Peak Hours.  Typically there are 10 (give or take 5) people on at my time.  I *am* restricted to playing at those times, unless I seriously frag my sleep schedule.  I work CST overnights... so either I'm logging on after work, when I have energy, or I'm waking up early, and RP'ing, and going to work tired off my ass.  So thanks for the slightly condescending tone and all, but perhaps you can see how utterly wrong you are.

Apologies, then. I hadn't realised that, or I would have responded completely differently.

As for traipsing my 'Naki patriot' half way across the world... yeah, there's *plenty* of reasons for it.  You give me any race, class/sub combo, and I can come up with a plethora of reasons for it.  Perhaps I'm just too creative.  And as for retiring or killing off your PC... that's absurd.

If you make a character that's got solid reason to travel, and go looking, more power to you. Tacking on reasons later to a character who was never intended as a traveller - well, that's often a bit dicier. I've heard "reasons" to justify all manner of odd IC behaviour in my time, and I've come to the conclusion not all reasons are good reasons.

Taking a PC across the world alone needs a damn good IC reason, anyway. If your PC is going to risk what he or she ought to regard as probable death (what are the IC odds on an untravelled merchant or 'Rinth pickpocket out there alone on the sands making it alive?) then there should be something vitally important behind it. Some stretches may be made for playability that ICly don't make that much sense, but if everyone wasn't so isolated these stretches would be fewer and further between.

As for brainstorming and help... perhaps look on the helper list, and ask a helper to give you advice on what to do.

What's the helper going to do? They can hardly summon up more players to play at those times. They're probably going to hesitate to tell you to stretch your RP for playability reasons.

As was already mentioned, possibly use the Player Announcements section of the GDB.  Or recruit, recruit, recruit, which I'm all about (or at least I think I am, as I've recruited at least 15 folks... 6 or 7 of still play).

Uh. Wouldn't the advantages and disadvantages of posting on the Player Announcements section of the GDB be more or less identical to those of the currently proposed scheme?

And are you suggesting that of the 10 people online at this sort of hour, 6 or 7 were recruited by you?

Sorry you don't think I have a clue, but the way I see it, a place to post what you are, where you are, and when you are is just asking to get raped.  Because someone, somewhere, somewhen, will use that information to their advantage, and will come stick a love-shank in your economic wet pouch.  It's bound to happen.  After all, not everyone can be as honorable as us, right?

And this would be much worse than, say, having a character in a city where no-one else is round while someone else has a thiefly character in another city where no-one else is round, and then one day journeying to that other city (as per your earlier suggestion) and being ripped off then?

I'm afraid I don't quite buy that.

Quirk

[Malifaxis]

I'm hopping a sub-thread in this forum so as to prevent permanent derailment.

-- Okay, no I'm not.  I'm just copying this here and going to sleep.  I am, however, refusing to further the debate on anything other than the problem of coordination, which, as I've stated, I would rather see be done IC.

This is a continuation from a previous thread, found in this forum, named:
Not enough players on non-peak hours

I'll make a few points before I elaborate:

Quirk wrote:

Tacking on reasons later to a character who was never intended as a traveller - well, that's often a bit dicier

Yes, arbitrarily tacking on reasons just to get some excitement is bad.  But, lets put forth a hypothetical situation or a few.  You are a merchant of some sort, you have loads of sid but you need more materials.  Hire an indep PC guard (if you can find one), *or* if you can not, roleplay out sitting in a bar with a vnpc, chatting them up and trading drinks with them, spend some sid on them, and offer them a nominal fee if they will help get you to X destination, so that you can collect these other supplies, then send in a written up NPC to mud@ginka, along with a smattering of the logs and your reasoning (need to find somewhere to interact, please help), and perhaps the Staff will be kind enough to oblige (I can't imagine that they wouldn't, as I've seen they're all very understanding.)

Perhaps you're not a merchant, perhaps you're a combat class... and you're broke.  Get rowdy, get in a few vnpc bar brawls, get your arse kicked emote style, get pissed off at the militia for not helping you against that dirty 'rinther/d-elf/magicker that just wholloped you and stole some of your stuff (junk a few things).  If you're in Tuluk, your next best bet is Ten'Sarak.  If you're in 'Nak, best go with Red Storm.  Find one of those 'weathered' or 'sun bleached' or 'Hi, I'm a Ranger' NPCs, wish up, asking to purchase directions to the town from this NPC, hand over some sid if a Staffer responds, and boot on over.

And while I could shamelessly promote a particular clan, I won't... but I will infer that there is at least one clan out there with players on at all times, and travels a hellacious amount.  Travel or be patient until you find some of them, and then do everything but bend over and smile trying to get into said clan.

As for asking help from a Helper... Helpers are Helpers because they've been around a while, they're helpful, and most likely, they know a good amount of people.  Chances are that one of those helpers is going to know someone else relatively close to where/when you're playing, and can provide you with a helpful nudge in the direction without giving away a crapload of IC information.  They can't summon up more players, but they can call upon resources at their disposal... including that other 'rinther PC they just helped create the other day for this other odd houred player.

Now, on with the show.

If you are starved for interaction, there are a lot of ways you can draw attention to yourself IC'ly... unless you are playing an utterly and compltely socially inept claustraphobic antisocial bastard... which I have done.  Since travel seems to be the big issue here, lets eliminate that possibility, whittling the problem down to "Finding people near you that also want interaction."

Make up some cool story about something you did with some vnpc, or use an actual really cool story if your PC has one, and go into a tavern... chat up the bartender, or the bynner at the back table, or the whateverNPCyouwant, or use a VNPC... tell them the story, act like they bought you a drink, then turn around and flop it up on the public board.
"Hey, did you hear about that guy who did a triple backflip from the top of Whira's Tower while singing 'My kank peed on a dwarf'?  Yeah, his name's Amos... I hear he's looking for work as an entertainer, but he's really hard to find... I hear he spends most of his time out in some village, shovelling escru shit to make ends meet, but during the deep end of the week he comes in to 'Nak looking for a better job and a good drink."

Now granted, this might draw some crazy 'rinther to come scope you out and whack you, but at least it's an IC way to do so, instead of an OOC co-ordination attempt being abused because the crazy 'rinther auto-magickally knows you're around during blah to blah hours.

-this is where I stop.  I'm too sick (literally, not insultingly/figuratively) and tired to continue.

[Seeker]

My 2 sids  <<----- What he said.

I love players.  More players.  More Off-Peak Players!  

Logging on, and finding out that all kinds of great stuff has happened over-night (while Peak Players were snoozing) would be -awesome-.  It would bring the fact home that when the Peak Player is away, Zalanthas is still rocking.

If you want to increase the addiction factor, make sure that -every- player knows that if they are not logged on RIGHT THIS MINUTE that they are likely missing something utterly cool.

Mali is right.  People -always- go where the fun is.  Unfortunately, I see the major burden lying pretty heavily upon the Off-Peak Players' shoulders to harvest and develop new Non-Peak junkies.  Armageddon's advertising is already 24/7, worldwide.  Word of mouth, and one-to-one dragging of the unenlightened to the keyboard is what seems to work best.  There is a huge population that could be tapped, and there is no reason that the phrase "Peak Hours" even has to have any meaning in a year or two.

Non-Peakers should get a girlfriend/boyfriend and subvert them.  It is a well documented, successful technique.  It certainly will give the Non-peak players who want interaction... um... interaction.  


Seeker

Even an OFF-HOURS FORUM on the GDB might be something, possibly, that could be useful to further highlight legit OOC co-ordinatation, and to display Arm's commitment to expanding Non-Peak interests.  If I didn't have to work or sleep, I'd use a PC to start running deluxe RPTs just for Non-Peak.

[Twilight]

I think it is all up to the players.  Having a noble or merchant employer around helps.  I remember a few years ago, the time I played at there was regularly 1-4 players on.  The were a couple of fairly active nobles that played during these times, and players seemed to naturally over time get attracted to their base of play, Allanak.  It was pretty often I could sit in a room and see all the players logged in at that time.  That was before the recent influx of new players, but I think something similar could happen, especially if you get one or two good leaders who drive things, and are visible.