Theives, hoods, and bad Rp'ers

[Sephiroto]

Theif steals from bad roleplayer (BR)

BR looks at theif and sees his main desc despite the abscurity of his features via his cloak.

Theif hauls off with BR's money.

BR sees theif later, recognizing him via his main desc and demands his money, or for the Tempralite to search Theif resulting in possible arrest or worse.

BR sucks because Theif had his features hidden away well within his dark hooded cloak that thousands of VNPC's would be wearing.

I think that another desc should be put in place.  Some sort of vague facial description that people would see when your character wears a hooded cloak, veil, etc.  Maybe not a new desc, but I feel that something should be done atleast.

I do know that something of this sort was discussed earlier in another post, but I can not recall the exact details.

Ohh, I was just thinking.  How about some dark back face paint to go with the dark hooded cloak.  That would be bound to help abscure facial features.

[EvilRoeSlade]

If you think that dark, hooded cloaks are impenetrable masks of shadow.... your wrong.  Although it would depend on the circumstances, it shouldn't be too much trouble for somebody to see your face, given enough time.

[Sephiroto]

Thats not the point.  Facial recognization is fine by me, but the point is, even though your arms and all are covered, they may be able to see some identifying mark, ie. a scar, tattoo, etc. through your main desc on particular body parts that would otherwise be covered.  Perhaps this has less to do with cloaks, but all clothing in general.

[Plazgoth]

If you are a good thief your mark should not even think to look at you or ever see you. If they did, my assumption is you are a crappy thief and deserve whatever consequences that leads to.

If you are wearing a dark hooded cloak and go to a place where the majority of PCs do not wear one you will stick out like a soar thumb. If you have any other items of clothing which will destinguish you as being a shady character you will stick out even more.

Also a hooded cloak does not disguise your face or features. There are items in game that serve that purpose. the hoods of cloaks are not for thet. They are for when someone looks at you a feww leagues off not to recognize you. I f they are close enough and make it a point to look you over then they can see your features.

[creeper386]

Well... For the most part just wearing a cloak and veil can't possibly make it so you can't be identified... Which from speaking with you is the point of this... Even with a cloak and veil/face paint... There are still many things...

Basically there is no way to completely hide your basic form... Still see for the most part how tall you are, how big, all sorts of other features... Even with face paint or veil could still possibly see facial features, big nose, high cheek bones, broad chin, tall forehead... Even with a hood some of the stuff could be seen. Hair could possibly be seen.

Then also there are your clothing... Even with the cloak wrapped about you(Which movement wouldn't be easy with a cloak wrapped about you) Some of your pants/leggings what have you would be visible. You foot wear... Also any distinguishing marks they have... And cuts or tears, scuffs and what not...

Now, alot of these things aren't coded... The only way to identify someone besides what they are wearing and short description is the main description... Although you can see their clothing... The difference between the same coded items aren't coded... You can't see them cuts or spots where the dye might not of taken... The flopping sole on their boot... Little things like that... Instead you have to take their main description.

I beleive if it's such a big deal... That the RP was so extremely bad on the stealee's part it should be emailed to the MUD... Because if you take out the main description with just a hood or veil... You are taken away basically any chance of identification... Even though there should still be some.

Creeper who thinks people well agree with the original poster just because he posted in semi-disagreement with this.

[EvilRoeSlade]

If that isn't your point, then what is?  It seems like you just admitted that it would be plausible to identify somebody wearing a dark hooded cloak and clothing by looking at them.

[Lazloth]

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=578

[Sephiroto]

If you are a good thief your mark should not even think to look at you or ever see you. If they did, my assumption is you are a crappy thief and deserve whatever consequences that leads to.

That is very much so correct, but if you would read the part in the post name about bad roleplayers.....bad roleplayers....  Eventhough their character may be scared to death, they can still just as easily use the look command and come after you later, whether you are wearing some sort of concealment device or not.

[Plazgoth]

I am not talking about robbing someone at swordpoint. I am talking about stealing. If your situation involved a mugging of some sort, then you should have taken better precautions so your victim does not recognize you later even if they look at you.

If you read my post: Wearing a hood does not prevent a person close to you from seeing you. It is meant, as far as I can tell,  for people from far away not to recognize you.

[Swordsman]

Whether this actually happened as described or not: who says the templars have to believe the other guy? If he's just some commoner scum, they might, or they might not. If he's some big noble, they'd probably arrest you anyway just because he's a noble and says you stole from him. Just because the other guy accused you doesn't make him a bad RPer. How does he know it was you? It could've been someone else in the room hidden (when you weren't) going through his pockets or whatever. If you act guilty IC, you're shooting yourself in the foot (even if you did steal from him, heh). What I'm saying is if the other guy doesn't have anything on you (even though he might suspect), why take the blame when you can just as easily say it wasn't you?

On the hoods and black face-paint: someone long ago once said that the best thieves are the ones who don't look out of the ordinary. They don't have huge flashy tattoos. They don't go around in hooded cloaks. They just look like ordinary people. Not flaming or anything, but I think if you're talking about hoods and black face-paint, you're going about it in a very unwise way. If you want your character to have a tattoo that's special but wouldn't normally be seen, leave it out of your main desc (since it'd normally be covered, I think the imms would probably allow it) and put it in your background. That's what I would do, anyway. And as the Thief Bible says, get good at hiding/sneaking before doing any serious thieving, which I personally think is good advice. As others have said, hooded cloaks aren't a way to completely hide your identity, and anything in your main desc is fair game for people to take in if you hang around long enough and close enough for people to see your main desc.

All IMHO.

Swordsman

[Sephiroto]

Okay here goes.  Theif sneaks in.  Theif rp's sneaking up behind and placing knife across the throat of victim.  Victim, eventhough theif is behind him, catches a look at Theif's entire main desc via the look command.  Theif continues to strip Victim's belongings at knife point, behind him the whole time.  Theif quickly vanishes.

Lets just disregard the whole concealment of features with the cloak.  Okay here, the Victim (the bad role player) abused the look command, catching a look at the Thief eventhough he was behind him.  He later catches sight of Theif, who at this time is in his day time dress and persona.  Victim comes up to theif and goes off on him.  Bad bad...  I mean its like every time someone walks into the room everyone looks at them.  It wouldnt matter if it were a figure in a dark hooded cloak or a pink bunny rabbit.  Under the circumstances the victim should not have seen his assailant.  I just wish something could be done about this.

[Angela Christine]

That is very much so correct, but if you would read the part in the post name about bad roleplayers.....bad roleplayers....  Eventhough their character may be scared to death, they can still just as easily use the look command and come after you later, whether you are wearing some sort of concealment device or not.

If they look at you, kill them.  That is what some RL criminals do if they think a witness will identify them.  In Arm you have the advantage of the look echo, so you know for certain if they have looked at you.

Alternately, find one of the many devices that do hide your main description.  There are several kinds of wraps and masks that conceal your identity quite nicely, they just take some trouble to find.  Ok, quite a bit of trouble, right up there with lock picks in the trouble to find department.    But they do exist, and I've seen examples on actual PCs or NPCs in Tuluk, Luir's and the 'Rinth.

Third Alternative: Don't piss in your own nest.  That means that you do not rob people in your favorite watering hole, or people who frequent the same areas you do.  If you want to rob people in the commoners quarter or just outside of allanak, then don't go to the commoners quarter to socialize; instead socialize in the 'Rinth or your favorite bandit camp.  This way your victims are unlikely to recognise you in places where they can do anything about it.  

If you _must_ go into an area where you are likely to run into former victims, get yourself a set of "civilian" clothes that look nothing at all like your "working" clothes.  Most people pay a little more attention to your equipment list than your description, at least at first, so if your clothing is unfamiliar they may not notice that your description is similar to the guy that robbed them last week.

You can't control other people's Roleplay, and trying will only give you an ulcer.  So be proactive, take precautions so that your victims have less chance of identifying you both ICly and OOCly, rather than relying on the chance someone elses interpretation of how concealing a given cloak is will be the same as yours.

Angela Christine[/b]

I just wonder if the so-called good RPers ever RP how sweaty they are getting indoors in their hoods and cloaks. I mean out in the sun, I am sure the cloaks actually help but inside, it would seem to just help you sweat more. Maybe I am wrong, but that is MY opintion see, how -I- think it should be. I don't see you RPing being hotter than everyone around you I think you are a bad Rper. In fact most people, including me don't RP their gear enough.


The old look at everyone who enters the room is unrealistic crap. I am sitting here in the computer lab and I god damn look at every single person who walks in. I sit with my back to the wall. Maybe I am paranoid. But surely if a computer nerd would do these things a hard bitten person in a world rife with thieves might do it as well. I also look at everyone who stands up and who leaves the room. I also keep my keys handy when I walk in case I need to stab somebody in the neck but that's a different story. I miht be paranoid..hmm I look at every single person who is around me, even if I have to turn around to geta good look at them.

Maybe its how ppl live in RL that they can't help but color their RP?
Oh well don't let me ramble on.

[Rindan]

If the guy looked at you, didn't it echo to the room?  You were the foolish one for not killing him on the spot.  You had a knife to his throat, and he turned around and looked at you anyways.  It isn't his fault that you didn't bother to make good with your threat.

As far as cloaks, if someone looks at you, you can pretty much assume they are taking a good long look.  In other words, he looked over your face.  If there was not enough in the main description about your face to go with in describing you, then it is fair play in my opinion to use other features that might not have been easily visable, simply you didn't describe your face in enough detail.

Whatever the case, I think the screw up is two fold on you.  First, you assumed that a hood cloak would keep someone from seeing you.  If a hooded cloak was suppose to make you unreconizable, it would be coded like a mask or a face wrap.  It isn't.  A hooded cloak keeps your face hidden from a distance, but not when up close.  Second, if you tell a person not to turn around or else they die, and they turn around and look at you, you didn't make good on your threat.  That is your fault.  If you had just killed the person in question when they disobeyed, they wouldn't be telling others your muggings.

[Callisto]

I once had an elf that robbed someone at sword point (that poor naked half-elf, heh heh), and despite the fact she got a perfectly good look at my character, she didn't bolt off to the templars. One of the rare times I've ever had someone play a character fearful of criminals, it was a really nice treat -  hats off to you, terrorized one  

The thing about mugging someone is your resolve, followed by a solid bit of common sense. I'm guessing you decided to play a super ninja assassin a couple hours into your character and when it came time to make good on your threat of slitting their throat, you wussed out knowing full well you had no hope in hell of actually killing them.

If you're going to play a mugger on Armageddon, you need to be willing to go all the way. Someone doesn't do as you say, you cut them to give the impression you aren't kidding. They still mess with you, you knife them right then and there.

You don't just pick someone at random and decide you're going to rob them, either. Spend some time stalking them, do a little digging to get an idea how capable they are in a fight, learn their patterns and catch them at the weakest moment, when the least number of people are around.

This brings me to the next point, don't go around acting like you're some sort of bad-ass elite assassin five hours after creation. Don't start picking fights and making enemies until you've got the ability to deal with them as you need to. I can't stress this enough - if you're a piss-ass little wuss, don't start robbing the elderly at knife point, because they will pick up their cane and use it to beat you with it until you are dead.

Don't count on hoods and such to protect you, either. You will draw more attention from people slinking around with your hood up, so just stick to a common set of clothes or armor, a plain cloak with the hood down, a nondescript weapon and a pair of sunslits. Seriously, as much as you want that spiked leather armor, pitch-black greatcloak and ivory-hilted, mantis-carved longknife, that just doesn't work.

Oh, and for the love of god, DON'T WEAR FOOTPADS. If you do, you might as well slap a bumper sticker on your forehead reading 'I am a sneaky person, please suspect me and blame me when something goes missing!'.

Whew.

[Swordsman]

OK, from your first post Sephiroto it sounded like you'd pick-pocketed someone, not mugged them. That obviously changes a few things from what I wrote. Now, all IMO: if you emote sneaking up on someone and putting a knife to their throat, fine. Problem is you don't know whether they noticed you or not (for all you know, they have good scan or whatever). So, if you emoted that and if I was playing the person you snuck up on, I would feel perfectly within my rights to take a look at you, either because I did notice you, or because I decided to take the risk of looking at you. After the other person looked at your character, the ball was back in your court. I don't think you can call another person a bad RPer just because they looked at you in that situation (based just on how you've described it, I don't know if there was more or not). I do think you can say the other person was taking a big risk both ICly and OOCly of losing the character if you turned out to be willing and able to kill him. But a bad RPer? I wouldn't go so far as to make that accusation, myself, FWIW.

Swordsman

[Impska]

Hey,  I have no problem with people recognizing you based on your main description. It's showing they got "a good look", and paid attention.

My favorite is when they go and report someone to the guards...

"Hey, there's some tall, green-eyed man that stole from me. Look for him, 'cause I want my golden sword back"

And everyone auto-magickally knows which tall, green-eyed man among the hundreds they're probably seeing the street is the thief.

I think there's been improvement, though. People are doing this a lot less than they used to. It gets discouraged a bit when a guard is willing to say "Do you know how many tanned, dark-haired people live in Allanak??"

[creeper386]

It's kind of like seeing people running around saying, "An elf stole from me... I want him arrested." "Well, What elf?" "He was tall... and had a cloak." "So... Are you going to tell me what elf did this?"

Basically what I said in my first post... The only OOC way they have to identify you with a hood on is by your long description or your clothing. Since it's unlikely with crude forms of producing clothing that any would be completely alike, also most of the individual wear and tear isn't coded, so the lack of information people have OOCily people have to result to long descriptions for IC purposes.

Do I make any sense? I hope I do.

Creeper who thanks you for reading his post.