People using contact (from ask the staff)

[Bestatte]

I just thought I'd mention, a LOT Of what's going on, is that people are trying to contact some guy with a wiry build and red hair, and getting the wrong "wiry."

I've done this dozens of times - you can't really avoid it. Once though, someone actually sent me a psi and apologized for mixing their images in their minds. I thought that was great, and I'll try to do the same next time I mess up and way the wrong person.

[Mr.Camel]

I remember getting something like that, only it was an angry guy yelling in my mind, made me laugh for a few minutes.

[mansa]

I'm sorry, I do that too.

>contact 4.green
>break
>contact 5.green
>break
>contact 6.green
>psi Hi.  Would you like to know the secret of happiness?  Just send one coin to Happy Dude.
>break

[ShaLeah]

Use names when possible, that eliminates a shitload of hassle.  My characters don't tend to be prankwayers so calling strangers and saying "Can you hear me now? Good!" isn't something they do frequently.

[Bestatte]

That should go without saying, using names. But if you don't know the person's name, you don't have anything else to go on besides the keywords in their sdesc.

[Gaare]

>Contact Dude
>psi Glad to know you are still alive.

What's the problem about this anyway?

[Tamarin]

>Contact Dude
>psi Glad to know you are still alive.

What's the problem about this anyway?

Nothing, but it depends on the circumstance.

a) If the person you are being contacted by is your friend, obviously its ok.

b) If they say something, its ok.

on the other hand...

a) If they contacted you and immediately disconnected, just to see whether or not you are online, so that they can go out looking for you, that is bad.

b) If they are your enemy, that is bad.

Seems to me, that since logging out is an OOC concept, your mind should be able to be contacted at any time.  Because of this, it shouldn't be used to determine an IC course of action, under most circumstances.  But that's just my opinion.

[Cuusardo]

Use names when possible, that eliminates a shitload of hassle.

I have this happen to me a lot, because recently one of my keywords has become very common.  It doesn't just happen with the Way though, it happens in person a lot.  When I walk into a room, I become the first person of this keyword on the list, and it's a little annoying whenever someone sits there and keeps directing things at me that have no business being directed at me.  (That's the point where I make an OOC comment to please use names instead of sdesc keywords.)

[sarahjc]

Why is it not OK if someone is just looking for you? Maybe they don't want you to know that they are looking for you.. But want to know if you are around. I don't see it as being OOC at all. They are searching for you, for good or bad.

Logging out is an OOC action, the way is not. But it is a way to seek someone out for whatever purpose. The person that is trying to find you, has probably been doing so for quite a while.

The only issue I have with the way is that you can't see who is contacting you. And that can get annoying. I am constantly getting empty wayed messages..

<Skill info removed by admin.>

[Carnage]

Sarah, you should edit that last line of your post out.

[ShaLeah]

When I walk into a room, I become the first person of this keyword on the list, and it's a little annoying whenever someone sits there and keeps directing things at me that have no business being directed at me.  (That's the point where I make an OOC comment to please use names instead of sdesc keywords.)

I wouldn't break character cause it's probably a newbie. There are ways around the ooc Lookie here stupid newbie, the command is THIS!.

tell newbie (looking at ~otherpersonwithmysdesc) Just because we're both stunningly gorgeous doesn't mean we look alike, does it? Pay attention man! We don't even look alike, hrmph.


Let me take this time to tell people with incredibly long character names to GET A DAMNED nickname! Thankyousomuchbuhbye.

tell skinny (with her arm around ~2.skinny and her hand in %3.skinny hand) My name is Glhugamalasiabombay... but you can call me Skinny.

ShaLeah
-who should go back to bed really...

[sarahjc]

Sarah, you should edit that last line of your post out.

Appologies  Carnage, I didn't realise that wasn't common knowledge. My bad.

[jhunter]

Vendrya said in another thread:

The reason contact was changed was so that people couldn't tell if someone was online or off by the error message; people would log in, try to contact their friend, and log off if they weren't around.

With the situation you mention, it pretty much is the same thing as logging off to prevent death. If your enemy or the templar who wants to kill your character is online, you'll log off. This is abuse of the psionic system and shouldn't be done. The characters are always around, it's the players who aren't.

How is it at all the same thing...after all, you just said yourself that the message is the same whether they are logged in or not?

[Carnage]

Vendrya said in another thread:

The reason contact was changed was so that people couldn't tell if someone was online or off by the error message; people would log in, try to contact their friend, and log off if they weren't around.

With the situation you mention, it pretty much is the same thing as logging off to prevent death. If your enemy or the templar who wants to kill your character is online, you'll log off. This is abuse of the psionic system and shouldn't be done. The characters are always around, it's the players who aren't.

How is it at all the same thing...after all, you just said yourself that the message is the same whether they are logged in or not?

Logging in, contacting someone who wants to kill you, then logging out if they're online is just as bad as quitting out when you see the person who wants to kill you log on.

[creeper386]

Seems to me, that since logging out is an OOC concept, your mind should be able to be contacted at any time. Because of this, it shouldn't be used to determine an IC course of action, under most circumstances. But that's just my opinion.

On the same side, no matter what you're looking for a person for, NO ammount of IC searching is going to let you find them unless they are logged in. I'm sorry, but that's part of the game. If I've been looking for someone, I'm not going to CONTINUE spending alot of my time JUST looking for them when there is a very good chance the aren't around.

So, since logging is an OOC concept perhaps your character should stay IG so it's easier to find them? Some things are OOC concepts and they aren't always abuse of the code. Still the same as before and now after contact is changed. Someone COULD very well be looking for you ICly already. They just may not want to continue doing it over and over and over again because an OOC concept(Being logged out) prevents them from having even the SLIGHTEST  chance of ever finding you.

There's SOME concession that has to be made, here. Or else if someone is looking for someone else they may very well have to spend all their time logged in for a couple days just wandering around, "Lassie! Come here girl! LASSIE!!!"


Creeper

[Gaare]

Seems to me, that since logging out is an OOC concept, your mind should be able to be contacted at any time.  Because of this, it shouldn't be used to determine an IC course of action, under most circumstances.  But that's just my opinion.

I think ICly this could cause many problems.  

Assume you have relation with a noble or a templar, or someone important.. And that important fella contacts your mind and says meet me place A at time B.. and you can't go there since you are not online.

Also for same situation.. you are really online but you don't go or you can't go for some reason.. What will that important fella would think? You got the message but couldn't go or you are not online.

[jhunter]

jhunter wrote:
Vendrya said in another thread:
Quote:
The reason contact was changed was so that people couldn't tell if someone was online or off by the error message; people would log in, try to contact their friend, and log off if they weren't around.

With the situation you mention, it pretty much is the same thing as logging off to prevent death. If your enemy or the templar who wants to kill your character is online, you'll log off. This is abuse of the psionic system and shouldn't be done. The characters are always around, it's the players who aren't.



How is it at all the same thing...after all, you just said yourself that the message is the same whether they are logged in or not?


Logging in, contacting someone who wants to kill you, then logging out if they're online is just as bad as quitting out when you see the person who wants to kill you log on.

Ahhh, okay I get it now...I guess I just misunderstood what was being said...although if the message is the same either way...you really don't know whether or not they are online.

[spawnloser]

You can confirm their presence...you can not confirm absence.  If you reach their mind, they're there...so if you log out to avoid that conflict, that is abusing the system.  However, if you reach the person and actually seek the person out for interaction, that is a completely different situation and not too bad, I think.

[moab]

I can't seem to find the original thread, but my comment seems to apply here as well.

Since the The Way is in game and is a development of many species and is well accepted, I think that searching for someone's mind and using that information to hide (not log off, but IC hide) or to hunt that person down are perfectly reasonable ways to use the way.

If my character is looking to kill yours, you can bet I'll use the way to find your mind and if he does, he'll make some calculations (accurate or not, depending on who I'm playing) to figure out where your character might be.

Being unable to find your character's mind might indicate that he is hiding or in some other way difficult to find and perhaps it is not the best time to go hunting for him.

If you don't want to be found and hunted down via The Way, there are skills for that as well.  Everyone has it.

[Marauder Moe]

[edit] Honestly I've never played a mindbender and don't actually know what they can do.  I'll delete it anyway though.  Sorry.

I see no acceptable IC justification to use the Way as a hunting tool.

[John]

I see no acceptable IC justification to use the Way as a hunting tool.

Okay. And can you think of an acceptable IC justification for it being impossible to find person X when they have no reason to hide, and be unavailable? And are, in fact in the city, living in their home, doing what they normally do, but only unavailable because they logged off?

[Larrath]

Gah, thanks for that tidbit of information I _SO_ wanted.  Seriously.  Mindbender may or may not be able to learn stuff using the Way.  That is all I need and want to know.  Please edit that post...

*is cranky 'cuz he still hasn't had his Armfix of the day*

[Marauder Moe]

I see no acceptable IC justification to use the Way as a hunting tool.

Okay. And can you think of an acceptable IC justification for it being impossible to find person X when they have no reason to hide, and be unavailable? And are, in fact in the city, living in their home, doing what they normally do, but only unavailable because they logged off?

Thats a different issue.  That happens because people can't play all the time and be logged in just in case someone breaks into his or her house while sleeping.

Using the Way to determine if you're likely to encounter someone smells like OOC info abuse to me.

[John]

Using the Way to determine if you're likely to encounter someone smells like OOC info abuse to me.

How else are you suppose to determine if someone is online or not? After all, someone being online is OOC info. Depending how you use it, finding out if someone is logged in is by no means OOC info abuse.

[Marauder Moe]

Using the Way to determine if you're likely to encounter someone smells like OOC info abuse to me.

How else are you suppose to determine if someone is online or not? After all, someone being online is OOC info.

Thats the point, you're NOT supposed to be able to know if someone is online or not.

Though, if you can contact them they're probably online.  :wink:

I suppose its more accurate to say you're not supposed to be able to tell if someone is offline, dead, or you're just having trouble contacting them.  This is why the game messages for contact failure were changed.

[John]

Thats the point, you're NOT supposed to be able to know if someone is online or not.

Then we have the problem of, I live with person X. I would see them all the time. I can't see them. Is it because they've been kidnapped, killed? Or just not logging in when I am?

[Marauder Moe]

Thats the point, you're NOT supposed to be able to know if someone is online or not.

Then we have the problem of, I live with person X. I would see them all the time. I can't see them. Is it because they've been kidnapped, killed? Or just not logging in when I am?

Yes, that is a problem.  However, I don't think the staff intend for the Way to be a solution.

[John]

I don't think the staff intend for the Way to be a solution.

Probably not. But I don't see the reason the Way code being changed, solely because people were using it to work out if someone was online.

I see the change being made because some people were using the Way to wait till someone logged out before doing certain things.

[spawnloser]

If you should and normally do see someone all the time but are unable to reach them, I would send an email to the mud or clan IMM and present your case.  In the email include why you think you should know if this person is actually around but not logging in or if the person has been missing for the last IG month.  The staff can decided whether you should have that information and provide what would be realistically known.

[Carida]

Well.. since noone asked the question. I will.  How do you know that they are waying you just to see if you are online? I get lots of missways all the time.  They contact you and then leave your mind when they realized they got the wrong person. So there's no real way for you to know that this person is contacting you to see if your online or not.. since you don't see a short description when they do make contact or when they withdraw.

[Kalden]

I really don't see what all the furor is about.

Using the Way to contact someone and then hunting them is fine. ICly, they should be huntable anytime, but realistically, they're only huntable when they're online. When it comes right down to it, if I know them well enough to contact them, then I should be able to.

Using the Way to avoid conflict isn't a good way to deal with it, but there's no real problem to be fixed. You just have to tell the people it's bad and leave it up to them. You can't control people's log-in times, and force them to play because they're being hunted, or tell them that they're bad because they're logging off. RL comes up, all the time.

The hunters and the hunted can complain all they want, but it's just something you have to live with.