Reducing Echoes

[mog]

Background

I was recently reading another topic that ended in the suggestion that the Teach echo should be removed.  This got me thinking...

I believe that there is a problem with too much spam in some areas of the game.  Occasionally you enter a tavern and the screen is scrolling so fast that you can't keep up - a lot of it being 'Fred eats a sandwich' type coments.

The proposal

Can we have a review of the echo giving commands in the game with a view to reducing them.

My Suggestion

Food echoes could be removed (Fred eats this, Jill drinks that).  The assumption would be that people would emote these things if they were especialy noticeable.

[Bestatte]

Heh..if you think that's bad Mog..

Try sitting in a room with a bar and 5 tables, and at least 2 people sitting at each, with each group having their own conversation and emotes, and another group in the next room, and your listen skill is turned ON. All this while you're trying to have a Way conversation.

Sorry, I don't agree with taking away drink/eat echoes.

It would be rather important to see someone that you poisoned eat a tablet.

It would be rather important to see someone drink the super potion power up and win the game.

Sure, eat/drink gets a little spammy, but it happens. Something I'd like to see to reduce spam is being able to put multiple items into a pack, but I don't know how that'd work.... like... put 10 feathers pack, or even with buying, buy 200 #01

[Nineveh]

My suggestion is to take away look echoes. When you look at someone, it doesn't mean you're completely staring at them to the disregard of everyone, and

The tall muscular man looks at you with a passing glance.
The portly, bearded lady looks at you while her eyes absently drift over the crowds.

Well.. it gets old. I'd rather not receive that message in the first place. It's just spammy and unnecessary. If someone wants to really look at you, or emote their gaze resting on you, they can emote it. But look is really spammy.

[Sephiroto]

Something I'd like to see to reduce spam is being able to put multiple items into a pack, but I don't know how that'd work.... like... put 10 feathers pack, or even with buying, buy 200 #01

I think this is an excellent idea.

Thanks Sephiroto

And as for removing the look echo, what about during Player-Staff meetings when those pesky mortals look at each other? How will Halaster know who to give a horrible horrible death?

[Angela Christine]

And as for removing the look echo, what about during Player-Staff meetings when those pesky mortals look at each other? How will Halaster know who to give a horrible horrible death?

Maybe it could still echo to the target, since you should have a chance of catching someone looking at you, but not echo to everyone else in the room.  Then durring meetings you could OOC (pointing at ~dark) He's looking at me!    Just like being back in the backseat of the car with bratty brother/sister/cousin/etc., ah, those were the days.  Alternately some imm could keep an eye on the game's command log, I assume they already do this (or review it afterwards) to catch people using peek and other forbbiden commands that don't echo.

Angela Christine

[Nineveh]

It could also echo to imms, so imms could know when watching any rp when someone's looking at someone else. Just make it transparent to everyone else. And I don't think its necessary to really know someone's looking at you unless they make it noticeable (via emote).

[Sephiroto]

Yeah, if you want it noticed, just emote.  Half the time that I look at someone, it is just emotes, like if someone does something, is hurt, etc.  Then there are the times when I just want to see what they look like.  If I want see what they are wearing for identifying marks.  Usually when I  do that I dont think it necessary for everyone in the entire room to see the echo.  Thus, I do think that the <look> echo should be removed.

[crymerci]

Just a question...and this is serious, not being a smartass here...

Is the spam really that bad?

[Angela Christine]

I really think it should still echo to the target, there are a few times when knowing that someone is looking at you is important.  For example, if you are a mugger or raider and you order your potential victim not to look at you, then you want to know if they do look at you and since you are looking at them with a knife to their throat you should be able to tell.  If they want to sneak a look at you they can use Peek.  

Look gets spammy when there are a bunch of people in a room all looking at eachother, or a person or group come into a crowded tavern and everyone looks at them.  The look echos from when everyone looks at you can be slightly annoying, not as bad as when everyone looks at everyone.  I think the information is potentially worth the annoyance.  

Angela Christine

[creeper386]

For the most part though, good evidence of what I'm saying can be found in the Thieve's World books, alot of the times when someone steps into a bar, even larger ones everything well stop for people to look to see who it is.

Although in really big taverns not everyone is going to see a new person stepping in but might want to look to have the knowledge OOC, sometimes somethings happen so quickly that even though your character might know whats going on you may not know.

Hmm... And alot of times "look"ing is completly OOC... Like when I forget what someone is wearing OOC even though they are standing right in front of me.

But most of all I think people need to take seeing the so and so looks at you alittle less seriously. I sometimes have to get a remembrance of what the person is wearing when I'm talking to them(My character is already looking at them or what not) I'll use the look command and they act like I did something wrong or my character all the sudden turned about and stared at them when both were looking at each other... I've seen this happen WAY too much.

Creeper

[Nineveh]

Exactly.

Like if you were talking and trying to point out their weapon, only forgot if they were wearing a sword. Or forgot what color their eyes are and they don't mention it in their sdesc.

Sometimes, knowing what someone is wearing can have important consequences as well.

Character A walks into a tavern wearing the obvious armor and markings of an enemy (whether or not they are one is beside the point). Something so obvious that if you or anyone in the tavern looked at them, you would notice. Other people including yourself are deep in conversation so notice character A walking around or sitting for an ic hour but it's either too spammy or twinkish to do look A whenever someone walks into a busy tavern. Noone does command look. Then character B walks into the tavern a couple of ic hours later, looks around, looks at A and points out what they are wearing. Something that nearly everyone in the tavern should have noticed but somehow, miraculously didn't.

-or-

One of your pc's friends gets a bunch of new tattoos in obvious places, say, their face. Only look is spammy so its not something you do a lot. Then later you get:

Character A: Didn't you notice?
Character B: Notice what?
Character A: My new tattoo!
Character B: No, where is it?
Character A: On my forehead!

I mean.. echoing look is rather... I don't know. Or like I'll look at someone and as was stated, have the lookee treat it like I was staring at them.. EVEN if the look emote stated it was a brief glance. A brief glance in a crowded tavern. A lot of times people treat look like its a holy covenant and by looking at them you're somehow violating their personal space.

The command look with echoes is semi-twinky to me as well. Someone shouldn't automatically know that you glance at them. Sometimes a flick of the eye is all it takes to notice something about someone.

[mog]

I have no idea if this is implementable but you could add a certain chance of noticing someone looking at someone else.  

30% say.  That way you cut the spam down to about a third but there's still a reasonable chance that you might 'catch someones eye'.

[Dan]

This got me thinking, how about a choice for the sneaky types to do "invisible" emotes, only seen by those with scan and that sort of skill/spell. This way they can emote out thievery and only be scared if they aren't good at being sneaky. The same could go for look, although this is already semi-covered by peak. If you are hiding or invisible then the other person will have no idea you are looking at them. Other than that I think others should know you are looking at them, and if its  glance say so:

look dark with a passing glance

Leave it at that, who cares how people act? If they go crazy because you glance at them then act IC and do what your character would. Don't be so uptight.

Just what I think, people need to loosen up with the OOC aspect and take things a little more IC'ly.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I'll only say this once...

Look doesn't give an echo when your hidden!  Stop suggesting this people, it makes me so annoyed that I'm driven to kill small, defenseless kittens.

They're defenseless for a reason, come on, you know you wanna up your backstab ;->