The sandstorms of yore...

[EvilRoeSlade]

We don't need more/longer sandstorms.

What we need is for them to be very short and less frequent, so as to allow more freedom of play, but made MUCH more of a threat when they do come along. The idea of needing a guide across the wasteland should not depend on them being able to walk through a storm without walking in a random direction, but rather on them being able to avoid dangers and acquire food and liquid in dire situations.

Oh yeah, baby.

And by ranger, I mean your average dune walker or tribal, not the class. Those of you touting your "ranger required" stuff need to remember that 'ranger' is a skill set, not everyone who is a dune walker is going to have the ranger skill set and not everyone with the ranger skill set is a dune walker. I will throw in my support to give the currently ranger-only trait of navigation to a few sub-guilds, if only to blur the lines between classes and offer more character customization.

Hold on a moment!

This is not going to happen by making sandstorms more inconvenient, it is just going to reduce them to glorified crossing guards, leading people from storm entrance to storm exit, where upon they will revert to their former role as second class fighters.

Damn woman.  Sounds mighty like a ranger ta me.

You want to offer this ability to subguilds?  That just happens to be the worst thing you could do, both to the ranger class, and to the level of threat a sandstorm would pose.  Blurring the lines between classes and offering more character customization sounds great on paper, but its time to look at the reality.  This is a class-based game, and it will probably never manage to be anything else, due to the massive reliance of the code on subguilds.  There is nothing wrong with making certain classes the ideal choice for certain roles.

Personally, I think the subguild system is very unstable.  There have been times when everybody in Allanak had the listen skill.  Because of subguilds, the listen skill means nothing.  An employer doesn't have to search for somebody with the listen skill, she'd have a hard time recruiting somebody who didn't possess it.  It's become commonplace to the degree that failing to possess it is the abnormality.  You're a warrior or a magicker?  No problem, partner.  Just pick a subguild with the listen skill!

A skill that offered protection against sandstorms (once they're made an actual threat, that is) would be just as powerful as listen, though it would be used in a different playing field.  Number of warriors in the Byn that would end up taking the nomad subclass?  10.  Number of actual nomads in the Byn?  0.  Your chance of being anything but a second-class warrior with your ranger?  Less than 0.

I don't think the classes need to be balanced, because if you're looking for balance you really can't justify merchants and magickers.  But what I do think is that every class needs absolute superiority in its chosen field.  A warrior's field is fighting, and a ranger's field is the wastes.  As it stands, creating harsh sandstorms and giving rangers the only means to deal with them would be a step towards that goal.  Giving a subguild the same ability would incidently, shoot the proposition in the foot.

I'll further submit that rangers need more superiority in the wastes.  As it stands, somebody who wants to create a character who spends a lot of time in the wastes could just as easily play a warrior as a ranger.  A ranger's poor combat ability hurts her more than a warrior's reduced ability to find food/water hurts her.  Brutal Sandstorms could be a decisive factor in that.

Sandstorms wouldn't be any more of a threat than they are now if everybody had the ability to be resistant to them.  Subguilds were intended to offer people background skills that they wouldn't otherwise have, but they're generally used to min-max characters.

[EvilRoeSlade]

This isn't a test.  Only a double post.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Hmmm...after reading that, I change my stance on the subclasses. Only rangers can have the ability to weather the storm. Thank you, EvilRoeSlade.

[Agent_137]

Hmmm...after reading that, I change my stance on the subclasses. Only rangers can have the ability to weather the storm. Thank you, EvilRoeSlade.

I would like to take this oppourtunity to agree.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Thank you, EvilRoeSlade.

Welcome.

[Twilight]

I think sandstorms are fine as is.  But for those who would like a change, would you also like to make them, hmmm, for a lack of a better word, organic.

As it stands now, sandstorm activity is set on a zone by zone basis.  That is, if you have blinding sands, it affects the entire zone.  Would you rather having something like a moving sandstorm?  So, like a sandstorm starts in room X (the key room), the chance of that happened determined by the force of the winds.  Over a series of RL minutes, it spreads to adjacent rooms until it reaches a certain size, probably based on wind force and chance.  The size is determine by Y rooms from room X.  So you could have a storm that affects all rooms 5 rooms deep, or 10 rooms deep, etc.  All the rooms it spreads to have pointers back to the original room.  Actually, I probably wouldn't even do it with rooms, if it was me I would be doing it with not_there objects.  But anyways.

After max_size has been reached for this particular sandstorm, the key room moves in the direction the wind is blowing.  The storm stays Y rooms deep, so effectively the whole storm is moving.  As time progresses, the Y room deep factor degrades (or upgrades) depending on the severity of the winds.

So, rather than having zone wide weather, you have real moving sandstorms.  Or perhaps you can have both?  Just the moving ones would be the really, really harsh kind you don't want to get stuck in at all.  And you could be able to see the sandstorm on the horizon, etc.

[spawnloser]

I'd say yes to your idea, Twilight, except have the storm builds as it moves.  That would be more realistic...and I would be so down with it.

[Whira's pissed]

There is a sandstorm right now, and I gotta say, it sucks.  It has lasted a whole IC day, and I can't do shit cuz I can't see shit.  Don't bring back the sandstorms.

[Sacac's ghost]

I will say this.
Don't make the sandstorms longer, make them harsher.
The "Stinging sands whirl around you" make that hurt a little bit.
Terrible sand swirling? Make it hurt more.

[Summer]

I think more dangerous sandstorms that actually had a chance of killing your character (if they didn't have water, or were already weakened) are a great idea.

So, what ideas are there to make sandstorms more dangerous?
- Have severe sandstorms do stun/hp damage
- Make storms increase the rate at which you become dehydrated (they do this already I think)
- Have severe storms turn you around occasionaly

Other ideas?

Also, how do we make it so that having a ranger along would help a party? I can see that it would be easy to lessen the effects of the storms on rangers individually, but how would we make it beneficial to a group to have a ranger along? At the present time, I don't think even rangers can scavenge for food/water when they can't see the ground which may be the case in a sandstorm? So they aren't much of a help there. Any ideas?

[EvilRoeSlade]

I've got some suggestions.

Make them scare mounts.  If you're not a skilled rider, the mount will buck you off and run away.  However, if you have a lot of skill (ranger caliber) then you have a chance to remain mounted and regain control of the beast.

Make them destroy tents.

Make them occasionally bury people in sand and transport them to a room where they die instantly.

Give rangers the skill/ability to predict them, perhaps as a function of the weather command.

[sacac]

I like those, But you know what?
Except I don't think they should drain stun or that insta-death thing..
Because if it doesn't work right, then the sands will kill everything that walks onto it.

[Larrath]

Instant-death is a bit much, but standing in the middle of the desert during a sandstorm is a very painful experience...a grain of sand flying at these speeds is no joke.  I can really see people getting injured by the sands or hiding behind wagons or even lying under a tent (though it may get covered in sand) just to escape.  Instant-death is too much, especially since you can't check weather in nearby rooms.

Getting lost, falling over, having your silks torn to shreds, being injured wherever there's no chitin, leather or sandcloth...I can see all of these.

But if a sandstorm is powerful enough to instantly kill a man, well, it would probably also toss his body a long distance away.  (if he's in a djellabah or greatcloak, at least).

And that's it, I think.

[John]

Summer didn't say instant death so I like his idea (i'm apposed to instant death).

So, what ideas are there to make sandstorms more dangerous?
- Have severe sandstorms do stun/hp damage

I like that idea, but I think "hide"ing should lessen the damage somewhat. Also, don't make this so unless.....
* You can see a sandstorm coming in the distance
* and/or there is a build up to the sandstorm, not just instantaneous.

[Summer]

Having hide lessen the damage would be a good way of handling it, however how does that help the group the ranger is leading? Whatever mechanism that is thought up, we want to try and make the ranger more valuable to a group. Even if it were something like:

> weather
blah blah blah
There is a small chance of a storm hitting at the moment
>pem eyes narrow slightly as she casts an appraising eye over the horizon.
ranger says "Nah, we should be right if we leave now.

later....

>weather
blah blah blah
A large storm is almost certainly going to hit soon
> pem As a gust of wind tugs at ~cloak, @ brow furrows in concern.
ranger says "I think we'd better turn back, mother fecker of a storm gunna hit soon."

[John]

however how does that help the group the ranger is leading?

Doesn't. So it's the difference between having a guide who knows the land and can get you out of trouble to having a guide who knows the land and can get himself out of trouble