Weekly Update Sticky???

[sarahjc]

Would you be in favor of a weekly update sticky, maybe on the General Discussion board above the archive..

I know I woud like it..

[My 2 sids]

This is a great idea!  People who are just "glancing" at the game or don't yet feel the need to actually subscribe to a weekly update could see all that goes on during the week.  I think it would add to our advertisment and player retention.

[mansa]

How about a whole new section to the Forum?

[sarahjc]

How about a whole new section to the Forum?

Ooohh...


But that may be a lot of work... :?

[Angela Christine]

No.

Within a few weeks a sticky would become a confusing mess of updates, discussion and witty quips.  No help at all for newbies.  A new discussion for each week's update, if needed, is a far better option.

A sticky topic would be useful only if it was in the Staff Anouncements forum.  There would be no discussion, only the parade of updates, perhaps with a pointer to the webpage that archives the old updates.  Then again, since the topic would be updated once a week, there would be no need for it to be sticky.

No sticky.


AC

[jmordetsky]

Hmmm how so?

Wouldn't it just be a running post? I imagine there has to be a way to mark a sticky as readable by all by writeable by only imms.

[sarahjc]

I was going along those lines as well Jmordestky.. I would think that a sticky that would not allow posts from players would be the way to handle it..

[Angela Christine]

Put it in Staff Announcments.  Staff can post, non-staff can not.

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In the Staff Announcment forum there would be no need for the topic to be sticky, stickiness would be redundant.  There are few posts per week in that forum, so the thread would never drop off the first page.


Vote no on Sticky in 2004!


AC

[sarahjc]

Yeah, but a sticky would always be at the top of the page, nice and neat, always looking good with it's little splat.  I will never have to search in despair for the sticky. What if there is an HRPT and all the nobles and merchants die.. tons of staff announcements then??

A sticky insures the survival of the thread..

I mean that's like saying that the Derailment experiment shouldn't be a sticky, that is always being updated as well??

Stickys are just better..

Vote Sticky YES in 2004!!!

[Angela Christine]

Yes, sticky is cool.  However, if -everything- is sticky, then sticky loses all meaning and utility.  A sticky will not be at the top of the page if there are several other sticky items there already.  It isn't an issue in the OOC forum because nothing there merits stickification, so there will never be more than a couple sticky threads.

Stop sticky proliferation now!

Vote no to Sticky 2004!


AC

[jmordetsky]

I wonder if Al Gore would break with the customary and and endorse the sticky.

[sarahjc]

True, but if it is something as valuable as the weekly update, I think it warrants a sticky.. and deep down inside, I think you want to agree AC.

I mean you could just make a thread on the Staff board, but why not a Sticky? Honestly i think a sticky grabs the eye more.. Especially for newbies.. As they are looking to those things that are sticky'd, because only really important things get stickys.

Sans the Derailment experiment, most sticky items are rules and regualtions of some kind. I think that the Weekly update warrants that kind of attention..


Who's with me!!

Vote Sticky YES in 2004!!!!

[Gilvar]

If it were to be on the boards it would probably be a sticky thread in the Staff Announcement board, so it couldn't be replied to by everyone.

Already the one that was attempted to be started on the general board(?) I think, had like 1 update, then two pages of people talking about brawling or something, and then the next one... not really productive.

So yeah, it would probably be on the Staff announcement board.

[Callisto]

No.

[SailorMars]

Moderators can also simply lock the sticky thread when it doesn't need updating.

[Lasakar]

If it were to be on the boards it would probably be a sticky thread in the Staff Announcement board, so it couldn't be replied to by everyone.

To post the weekly update should be only information. So I would vote for this idea too. We could ( and we will!  :wink: ?) discuss the single topics on the other forums.
And we should post it! It will stop the every week question. "Where is my weekly update?". I like the updates, but I don't need it as a mail.

[ShaLeah]

Doesn't anyone think we have enough shit to read on the GDB?  We need more?  People can't subscribe?

[sarahjc]

Wouldn't just be easier if you didn't have too? Sure I supose we all have enough shit to read, but the update is actually worth reading..

Why not have it readily available without subscribing??


Vote Sticky YES in 2004!!!

[2 Lazy 2 Login ShaL]

Sure I supose we all have enough shit to read...

That's exactly the point.

Way too much -shit- on the GDB.  Adding something else, albeit something actually worth reading, is still adding more shit. If you wanna know what's on the update, subscribe.

[Callisto]

If you wanna know what's on the update, subscribe.

If you want to post, log in.

[Bestatte]

The whole point, ShaLeah, of people requesting a weekly update posted on the GDB, is that a whole lot of subscribers haven't been getting them.

I subscribe, and I didn't get the e-mail for this week. It could be that none was sent. I don't have hotmail so I know that isn't it.

Rather than 100 or 200 or 500 people each getting an e-mail, why -not- post once and people who want to read, can read? And what about people who don't even play the game yet? How great would it be for those folks who are deciding if they want to play, to see a sticky showing them how hard, and how much, work the staff does every week?

For people looking for other games because the staff in their own game is lacking, it could definitely be a deciding factor. Why would they subscribe to a weekly update about a game they aren't even playing, and don't even know if they want to play?  And given the current problems with e-mails, why would they decide to play, if subscribing results in no weekly update?
At least with the GDB, if the update isn't posted, there's still tons of other stuff they can read, and still not be committed to playing or having an account in the game.

[sarahjc]

So I could subscribe to get more e:mail that I already get enough of.. Or I could look at a informative sticky.. posted on a board -full- of information about the game?? Which is -why- the board is here isn't it? To discuss and provide information about the game.

Hrmm..

Just doesn't make sense to me.. *shrug*

Calling the weekly update junk and stating that there is far too much junk on the board is like saying that there is one too many flakes in your bowl of cereal..

Not to mention the fact that a lot of people didn't even know about the weekly update until it was posted here..And as Bestatte stated amongst other fine points, what happens when people don't get it, via email, which is why this discussion was started..

My point is, it holds a lot of information that is really good to know. Why not make it easily accessible? What is the purpose of having the hassle of  subscribing if most people want to see it?? Just keep it on the board..

Not to mention that then there would be a steady archive as well..



Vote Sticky YES 2004!!

[Still 2 Lazy 2 Login ShaL]

There's a link to the archived updates within the main web page. Click on Community Resources and then Weekly Update Archive.  *shrug*  I still disagree.


ShaL
-who will continue to post without logging in, despite what little dancing pigs say.   :wink:

[Bardex]

Last weekly update on the archives page: May 4, 2003
I dont think that is very useful

[ShaL]

Last weekly update on the archives page: May 4, 2003
I dont think that is very useful

Clearly they haven't received their majordomo updates either.  Maybe we should whip majordomo into submission... or update that page.   :shock:

[sarahjc]

Last weekly update on the archives page: May 4, 2003
I dont think that is very useful

Just one more thing adding to the argument.. the staff wouldn't have to update the weekly update archive page, because you would have it in the sticky until you decided to start a fresh sticky and archive the old one.

And I'm not wagging a finger at the staff for not updating the Archive, I just think that it would make things easier and it just makes sense...

Another staffer opinion would be nice on this..As I am curious if it is something that would be done.. or is this a useless debate?


Vote Sticky YES in 2004!!!

[Bestatte]

Sha, one of your arguements against a weekly update on the GDB, which you felt important enough to isolate in its own post, was that anyone could easily just go to the archives link on the website in community resources. Your arguement is invalid, however, because those archives haven't been updated since May of last year.

This isn't to fault majordomo, or Sanvean, or anyone for "neglecting" to update the archives. The point of an archive is to have a reference available for OLD stuff. Not current stuff. As archives go, the ones we have are pretty good - less than a year past. In most cases outside the mudding world, archives usually don't exist until files are at -least- a year old, and in some cases up to 5 years old before they ever show up.

However this applies only when everything up to that point is readily available to whoever it's meant to be seen by. This is not the case at the present time, because e-mail has been proven an unreliable resource in recent threads.

I have yet to see any arguement against a weekly post in the announcements folder that screams to me, "Oh jeez that is a really BAD idea." I have seen many arguements in favor of it, some of which appear to be REALLY excellent reasons.

That you feel the bulk of the GDB is crap is irrelevant. That you feel the weekly updates are adding to the crap is irrelevant. You aren't required to read it, or post.

The fact remains, people who -are- subscribers to the weekly update, with valid e-mail addresses, are not getting them, even when they are being sent to the group list. The idea of a single weekly post in the announcements folder addresses this with ease. It makes the update available, it doesn't require someone with website upload access to create an HTML file for it, any staff member can post it instead of just the few who have majordomo access, and anyone - even people who don't play Arm, can see all the work that goes into the staff's efforts every week.

For those who object to having to scroll down a zillion pages in the announcement thread (if it were implemented) I would suggest only a month's worth of weekly updates to be posted. When you get to the 5th week, delete the first post. This gives everyone a full month to read the update before it disappears, and anyone can easily copy the post to a text file if they have any need or desire to save it in their computer.

Eventually (perhaps a year later) all the previous year's posts can be archived in that handy dandy archives doc on the website, which is only 9 months old (and as I said already, 9 months isn't bad AT ALL as archives go).

This solves the problem, doesn't create any new problems, benefits players, staff members, potential players who read the GDB to decide if the game and its community are what they're looking for, and it also benefits past players who check up on the GDB just to see what's been going on during their absence.

Find a flaw in any of these reasons. Find something that I and all the other people who think this is a good idea, that will be detrimental. Not that "we don't need it." We don't need Armageddon, we don't need the GDB, we don't even need internet access. We don't need it isn't a "flaw." Find a flaw, show us what is so wrong with the idea that we should all drop the subject and live with missed updates even when they're mailed out to us.

[2 Lazy 2 Login ShaL]

Your arguement is invalid, however, because those archives haven't been updated since May of last year.

...why -not- post once and people who want to read, can read?... How great would it be for those folks who are deciding if they want to play, to see a sticky showing them how hard, and how much, work the staff does every week?

How is my arguement invalid if I am showing you exactly how easy it is to get that information?  The archives aren't showing what it is what the imms have done in the past? It doesn't show "possible players" how hard, and how much, work the staff does every week?

That page is supposed to be updated every week so that that information is available to anyone, isn't it?   Is it geared more to have a filing cabinet of some updates or to have them all?  That's the staff's call.
-If- it is made to show all the weekly updates, then having them posted there -and- the GDB is just a waste of time.

This information is already accessible. Major changes to the game are posted when you first log on to your account. Sometimes majordomo acts up, sometimes the immortals don't post weekly updates.

I see it as unecessary, not wrong, not flawed, not anything other than unecessary. The information is available through other means, updated or not. Simple.

[Bestatte]

ShaLeah the Lazy wrote (eventually):

I see it as unecessary, not wrong, not flawed, not anything other than unecessary.

To which I respond, I agree. It is unnecessary.  So are a lot of things, like discussions in bulletin board forums, and the forums themselves. In fact, I can think of very few things that -are- necessary. Being born is right up there with dying, and in fact I'd call it a close tie. Everything else? Unnecessary detail. Let's just get rid of the whole lot of it and call it a day, hm?

Edited because I spelled unnecessary with two many c's - twice! How come I can spell necessary fine and I always stick in that extra c when it's UN? <squints>

[2 Lazy 2 Login ShaL]

To which I respond, I agree. It is unnecessary.

So you're arguing why?

ShaLeah[/i]
-who knows the answer to that question.

[mansa]

I used to receive the weekly update via my email.  The last one I received was on December 8th.  I didn't change anything.  I use hotmail.

At the end of december, I unsubscribed myself, and then subscribed myself again.  I could still talk with the email program, and it would still send me email.  Just, it never ever did email me again with the weekly update.

I would like to see the weekly update in a forum of its own...Or perhaps in the 'staff announcements'.

[Tamarin]

I would like to see the weekly update in a forum of its own...Or perhaps in the 'staff announcements'.

Yes!  A whole forum, with the top post a sticky containing the updates, and the rest of the forum devoted to responding to the updates.

And the sticky should be locked.

[sarahjc]

To which I respond, I agree. It is unnecessary.

So you're arguing why?

ShaLeah[/i]
-who knows the answer to that question.

I think Bestatte was being a bit sarcastic. -You- may think a sticky is unnecessary, but its is helpful and would solve a few problems. Problems Like:

1. People subscribing and not getting the update
2. People not even knowing about the update
3. Shows the attention that our staff puts into the mud each and every week.
4. The outdated archives
5. People constantly asking. "was there a weekly update?"

I just don't see the need to say no to it, and there has been no-one giving a valid reason of why not.

Just saying that it's more unnecessary shit of the boards?? I mean come on…There is a lot of shit on the boards.. and the weekly update is not shit, otherwise you would not be able to subscribe to it in the first place..

I could see that it if it was a code issue or that it would be hard to change how it is distributed now.. Or that it houses information that people who are just perusing the mud shouldn't see..

But I have yet to see anyone make those arguments..

As I said before, it's just another Cornflake in the bowl, but since its such a good idea, maybe it should be a banana or a strawberry, or one of the marshmallows in your lucky charms.. Point being it has it's place..

Unless a weekly update sticky will offend you in some way or you think that it harbors OOC info, or that it will do some sort of damage, why disagree with having it posted. If you don't want to look at it, you don't have to..

You say that it is redundant.. But it's not if the system for receiving it now is not good, and from what I gather from several posts on the board it's not.


Vote Sticky YES in 2004!!!!

[Tamarin]

Vote Sticky YES in 2004!!!!

Hear hear!  Lets not fuck it up like Texas, though...

[Bestatte]

My agreement with ShaLeah in that it is "unnecessary" wasn't sarcastic. It was meant sincerely. It isn't a "necessary" thing to have a sticky. I mean..there's lots of things I can think of that would be more important than a regular access to a weekly update available for anyone with a web browser and an internet connection to see.

In that, I am 100% sincere and in complete agreement with ShaLeah.

But, the fact that it is "unnecessary" in no way undermines the fact that it is desireable, useful, and would perform a function that the current system is unable to do efficiently.

As for why I add my opinion on the matter, well, ShaLeah already knows, but not all of you are as all-knowing as she, so allow me to enlighten you:

I add my opinion to this because it's an interesting idea, one that I -have- an opinion about, and because this is a discussion board, meant for such discussions.

And yes, I was being sarcastic about the "all-knowing" part.

[Candi]

Since new players are immediately directed to the GDB and the stickys stand out so much, I think it's a good idea.  The update is available, but many don't find out about it right away.  Anything that helps new players to become comfortable and put down roots is not such a bad idea.

*carefully pushes the chad beside "Sticky yes" completely out of her ballet and eats it, ensuring that her vote will be secure*

[Angela Christine]

Woah.  You don't just want the Update posted here, you also want to eliminate the mailing list version?  That is just wrong.  Plenty of players, for reason not obvious to me, choose not to read the GDB.  Their faulty discussion board choices shouldn't be punished by having their Weekly Update taken away.  I like the email version.  It is easier to refer to than the GDB.

I am in favor of posting the Weekly Update here for discussion purposes, I've done it myself, but not at the expense of existing delivery method.


But no stickys.

AC

[Tamarin]

I think different people would find the mail or GDB version convenient/less convenient.  I myself would rather see it on the web, because that's what I happen to go to more.  I say, have both.  If you don't like the forum....then don't go to it.  If you don't like the e-mail, then unsubscribe and save some bandwith (as if there isn't enough already).

[Gilvar]

Some people live in the GDB (check post numbers) It would reach a larger number of people in my opinion... and be right next door to discussing something in it. Email is great and all, but I used to want to ask questions about something I read and then have to go all the way across the street to the forum, and then not remember, so have to press back, and forward, and its just annoying! Yeah forums forever!

[gfair]

How about put one copy of the archive in the Archives gdb section, and then another in general discussion? That way the Archives section would keep the weekly archives in order by date, while the general one would allow everybody and their cutely-named kank to speak up?

[sarahjc]

I am still rooting for a Weekly update sticky! I was curious to the staff opinion on it sans Gilvar who I think wants a forum. .. and if we would be getting a weekly update sticky as opposed to the post that comes out now.

Anyone?


Vote Sticky Yes in 2004!

[Cuusardo]

I like the separate forum idea myself.