Crime (I know, but this is constructive and simple..promise)

[jmordetsky]

I just went through a long post on crime code and I noticed this stuff gets pretty heated. I started thinking about it and came up with the following:

A disguise skill.

Thief and assassins would have this skill in varying levels and with the help of a hood or a face wrap could conceal their identity to a certain level.

Now, the way this would work is similar to the following:

1) I a criminal to be, go off somewhere and use the disguise command, "disguise on facewrap" masking my short desc and long desc in some way.

2) I go forth and commit a crime, and am flagged as a criminal inciting the full wrath of the impregnable npc guard.

3) However, I am savy, and properly plan an escape route, allowing me to duck into an alley and "disguise off facewrap". Depending on my level of skill, my crim-flag is either removed or remains. This should be hidden from the user. The delay associated to an undisguise should be similar to crafting an item, and possibly go down with the users skill.

4) If successful, I walk past angry NPC guards emoting to be minding my own Ps and Qs, if not...well...I'm Kank meat.

This skill would allow for the sort of masked assassin thief type RP people are looking for and would still fight against twinkism as you would have to be a decent "disguiser" to get away with it.

There are some holes, like witnesses to the "undisguise", but I chalk that up to be RPed like witnesses to "hide" and the now I'm here, now I'm not effect.

Thoughts?

[Quirk]

What problems were you thinking this would address? As far as theft goes, it can be done in hiding and almost the sole reason that a successfully hiding thief would be spotted is down to the arguably buggy production of the full "look" information when someone with scan sees them. I'm not sure that the masked assault being made easier is a good idea, but I'm open to hear arguments.

The other thread was of course dealing with the tender care the militia have for the hurts and wounds of the lowest classes code-wise, and how that care would be unlikely to manifest ICly. If you intended to bring this new idea to bear on that problem (seeing as you referenced that discussion in your last post), how would you see it as helpful?

Quirk

[Tamarin]

I like this idea, frankly.  I think it would be cool, especially if your wanted status is now unknown to you.  Very cool indeed.

[Reiloth]

What problems were you thinking this would address? As far as theft goes, it can be done in hiding and almost the sole reason that a successfully hiding thief would be spotted is down to the arguably buggy production of the full "look" information when someone with scan sees them. I'm not sure that the masked assault being made easier is a good idea, but I'm open to hear arguments.

The other thread was of course dealing with the tender care the militia have for the hurts and wounds of the lowest classes code-wise, and how that care would be unlikely to manifest ICly. If you intended to bring this new idea to bear on that problem (seeing as you referenced that discussion in your last post), how would you see it as helpful?

Quirk

Thank you for adding nothing to this well presented idea.

This idea could actually go places, diguise is a skill that would make assassinations and petty thug killings actually possible without all the overhaul code changes presented in the similar thread. I mean..It makes sense. Insofar as seeing the full description of a person upon looking, thats the only problem I could see, yet this is only from a PC to PC standpoint, not for NPC's.

If, lets say, you disguised yourself in a desert-colored facewrap, in the depths of a secret alley, went out of the alley, absolutely murder some poor fool who pissed you off, run back into the alley, remove the disguise..

If there was a PC in that room, that would be the only instance of someone OOCly knowing who your character was, through the disguise. An NPC guard would see somthing along the lines of..

A figure in a desert-colored sandcloth facewrap arrives from the west.

A figure in a desert-colored sandcloth facewrap subdues/kills fool.

A figure in a desert-colored sandcloth facewrap runs west.

a few minutes pass...

the tiny, rotund dwarf waddles in from the west.


You know what I mean? Only if a PC LOOKED at that figure would he see that it was actually joe shmoe, who works for blah blah blah. NPC's wouldn't be able to tell the difference, I don't think its that big of a problem.


Also, the other thought that comes to mind is *gasp* abuse. But I really don't think its a problem. People don't play Arm to abuse it. They play it to have this realistic world, that they are too afraid to twink out in because those IMM's know when you're naughty or nice.

Similar to hide, this shouldn't have an echo for the user, either in a successful or unsuccessful disguise.

The other thing that I thought of is how would disguise be different from just *wearing* said item of disguise. A facewrap, for example. I would say it covers the main description, but it seems TOO twinkish, and it would be used OOCly as a method for wantonly killing people without reprocussion.

shrug.

Kudos to this idea, honestly.

[jmordetsky]

If you intended to bring this new idea to bear on that problem (seeing as you referenced that discussion in your last post), how would you see it as helpful?

I didn't mean for this to be pertinent to any of the social issues addressed in that post, though it was what sparked my thoughts.  This was really meant as a notion which might genuinely make crimes easier for a well played and practiced criminal to commit, without encouraging too much mayhem.

It'd be nice to see more muggers, more spice-dealers, more local gangs, even human ones, but as it is, the crime code restricts that. House guards are mostly useless.

It was more in reference to this, as there being a lack of crime because of the uber-ness of the crim-flags and what I (note, -I- has not played a criminal in a long time) perceive is near impossibility for a player to get away with anything once they are flagged as a criminal.

[Carnage]

Thank you for adding nothing to this well presented idea.

If someone doesn't agree with a statement and eloquently replies to it with a counter or asks why it's needed, they're adding nothing? Do you know how a brainstorming session even works?

This idea could actually go places, diguise is a skill that would make assassinations and petty thug killings actually possible without all the overhaul code changes presented in the similar thread. I mean..It makes sense. Insofar as seeing the full description of a person upon looking, thats the only problem I could see, yet this is only from a PC to PC standpoint, not for NPC's.

These are possible. They take patience, just as they do in real life.

[Quirk]

Thank you for adding nothing to this well presented idea.

This idea could actually go places, diguise is a skill that would make assassinations and petty thug killings actually possible without all the overhaul code changes presented in the similar thread. I mean..It makes sense. Insofar as seeing the full description of a person upon looking, thats the only problem I could see, yet this is only from a PC to PC standpoint, not for NPC's.

I wasn't expanding on the idea, I was questioning its utility. The other thread was suggesting code changes to make the militia act realistically. Assassinations and petty killings happen and happen quite frequently, the problem is that the attention paid to the crime is often out of all proportion of the importance of the victim. This does not solve that issue. Assassinations are quite possible as is, thank you, and the full description of the person on looking is the current problem with the *hide* code, not the suggested disguise code.

In short, this is not a sensible fix to the problem of the code arresting a bunch of House guards for taking out a 'Rinther who was threatening their liege.

The other thing that I thought of is how would disguise be different from just *wearing* said item of disguise. A facewrap, for example. I would say it covers the main description, but it seems TOO twinkish, and it would be used OOCly as a method for wantonly killing people without reprocussion.

This is how things are implemented currently, yes. I am unsure as to whether wearing an item that hides your main description saves you from being incriminated by VNPCs, but PCs will have to rely on the information given by assess and the clothing of the attacker to pass on a description. Such items are rare however.

Were the issues with "look" giving a full description of someone in hiding to someone with the barest level of scan skill necessary to see them and the inability to sneak past NPC guards addressed (assuming they have not been), life would be much easier for criminals. This skill adds only a little to their repertoire that they would not have already if the skills they had functioned as advertised in the helpfiles.

Quirk

[jmordetsky]

Similar to hide, this shouldn't have an echo for the user, either in a successful or unsuccessful disguise.

Totally. I don't think you should "know" if you are crim flagged either.

The other thing that I thought of is how would disguise be different from just *wearing* said item of disguise. A facewrap, for example. I would say it covers the main description, but it seems TOO twinkish, and it would be used OOCly as a method for wantonly killing people without repercussion.

I thought about this a bit...and realistically, if you were wearing a wrap, it would be very difficult to see anything but a persons eyes. But being crime-free by just wearing a face wrap or hood would get abused faster then a loop hole in the US environmental protection laws.

However, there are many more variables then just your face, in a disguise. There is the sound of your voice, your size, your posture, distinguishing marks, scars.

Be able to "Disguise" would more or less symbolize your ability to fully grok all of these variables and mask them before committing the action in question.  Therefore, just wearing a mask, would help, but not do it completely.

Maybe certain items like facewraps increase your chances? As would a different cloak, or footpads. Maybe to use each you'd have to cause disguise repeatedly?

>disguise
You attempt to conceal your identity.
(hidden from player disguise success % = 10)

>disguise facewrap
You attempt to conceal your identity with a desert colored face-wrap.
(hidden from player disguise success % = 40)

>disguise cloak
You attempt to conceal your identity with a desert colored cloak.
(hidden from player disguise success % = 45)

>disguise footpads
You attempt to conceal your identity with a pair of footpads.
(hidden from player disguise success % = 50)

... does bad things ...

>undisguise
x = random number 1-100
if x < disguise success then crimeflag = false

Thoughts?

[Lazloth]

If you disguise, wouldn't you want to disguise as someone?
As they say in the rooms, if all you're concerned about is altering your sdesc & mdesc, keep coming.

[Tamarin]

If you could manage to steal a militia cloak, that would be cool.

[jmordetsky]

Hmm...I hadn't thought about disguising as "someone" as much as someone just not being able to know who you are.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

This is certianly a good idea, especially for those folks involved in raidings or muggings.

[Lazloth]

What is a good idea, 7?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

A disguise skill, which allows someone to mask their features without it being either permenant or infallible. While its use in the city is limited, this will solve the problem that raiders and such currently have having to kill every victim not to get their descriptions passed around.

[Lazloth]

And how would you give this out, to classes?  Every character suddenly gets disguise on the skill sheet?

There are mechanisms in-game that allow for such.  Seek.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

And how would you give this out, to classes?  Every character suddenly gets disguise on the skill sheet?

There are mechanisms in-game that allow for such.  Seek.

No. Thugs and Thieves would get it. That aside however, have fun finding this in-game mechanisms. Of course they exist, but actually obtaining one is ... iffy and delicate, and when adding to this that masking your features should not be as hard as it currently is, that explains why I endorse this idea.

[da mitey warrior]

The problem with this idea is that there is no downside.  So everyone and their kank will use it.  Instead of seeing a bunch of hooded, facewrapped elves sitting at the bar you'll now see a bunch of hooded, facewraped disguised elves at the bar.  And everyone out in the desert will be disguised, and everyone in the rinth will be disguised and every time someone tries to steal from you 5 times in a row there will be some disguised, hooded person standing next to you.

In order to be viable disguise has to be rare either due to 1) downsides or 2) rare components or 3) skills which are hard to branch.  Otherwise I see it becoming rather silly.

[Reiloth]

I think your latter posed response works best:

Make Disguise a branched skill, thus making it only accessible by very proficient Burglars and Assassins, or members of the Thug guild. Branch it from sneak, or from hide, or from a combination. Seems like a perfect way to keep it away from everyone and their mother, and have the elite "thief" classes be super bad-ass in a new and interesting way.

thoughts.

[jmordetsky]

I'm thinking it could be like crafting a weapon...takes a lot of tries to get right...Thus being very risky.

Also the long you remained in a disguised state, the lower it's chances of being effective because so many eyes will have been on you. So maybe one you "disguise" the percent chance of success starts to drop with each tick.

This way people weren't just "hanging" about in disguise.