Elves and beards

[UnderSeven]

Okay.. Do elves grow beards..?  

Most elves I see played seem to go on the assumption elves are naturally clean faced, no stubble, no hair.  Kind of like the japanese.  Anyway, I've always thought that too.. But every so often someone plays the bearded elf, which usually stands out to me quite a bit.  

What's the consensus here..? Do elves naturally have beards and facial hair, or are the bearded elves really just experiencing a recessive human gene from cross breeding ages and ages ago..?

I personally vote for the latter, allows for people to play elves however they want, keeps them beardless (the way I always pictured them) and could fit with current trends.

[Forest Junkie]

I have had elves with beards before. Elves can have beards. They are not cleanly shaven Legolas look-alikes. Contrary to popular belief, they do have hair on their ass.

[ashjpd]

I know it is physically possible for them to. I just don't think many people want beards on their elves, here are some reasons maybe why:
1.Most elves travel in the wilderness or in the city alot, and beards can get caught in things, so this might have the character not want to have a beard.
2.Maybe it is just not their fashion, I mean, no elves with beards have ever been popular, or famous. (as far as I know)
3. Maybe their hair physically grows faster or slower then other races, so they might find it easier to just stay unbearded.
4.I would also think that maybe they did have a beard at one point, but only for a certain amount of time, to change their appearance, if they were wanted and all.
5.I am sure others can make up other ones, I usually don't play elves, but am suprised I was able to come up with even 1 excuse why.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Elves have no facial or body hair.

I'm sure that the trend of elves having no beards originated from here, as well as other non-Armageddon sources such as Tolkien.  However, there is nothing in the elven documentation stating that elves have no beards.  Since that's something worth mentioning if it were true, I can only assume that they do have them.

[UnderSeven]

Well Armagedon is based on darksun loosely at least right?  Not that it makes a big difference if you play one with or without hair.  

I rather like the explination of hair maybe growing on them slower, since they age slower.

[Forest Junkie]

I rather like the explination of hair maybe growing on them slower, since they age slower.

Aging and the growth of facial hair have nothing in common, in scientific terms.

1.Most elves travel in the wilderness or in the city alot, and beards can get caught in things, so this might have the character not want to have a beard.

Wayne Static? I think not.

[UnderSeven]

I rather like the explination of hair maybe growing on them slower, since they age slower.

Aging and the growth of facial hair have nothing in common, in scientific terms.

Maybe not when dealing with the same species, but we're not talking about the same species when we compare aging now are we?  Take a monkey and a person, clearly their babies have their full hair growth sooner than ours, infact it takes ours a lot longer.  Maybe it's not to due with aging, but the simple fact that they DO age and mature slower means certain things like hair is going to wait up for them too most likely.

[JollyGreenGiant]

I've seen at least one elf with a beard in the game.

[ashjpd]

1.Most elves travel in the wilderness or in the city alot, and beards can get caught in things, so this might have the character not want to have a beard.

Wayne Static? I think not.

Well that was just my opinion, I mean, lots of elves move in places people even see, alleys, on rooftops, I don't know.... What is that supposed to mena anyways, Wayne Static???

[mansa]

I've had an elf with a goatee and a mullet.

[Forest Junkie]

1.Most elves travel in the wilderness or in the city alot, and beards can get caught in things, so this might have the character not want to have a beard.

Wayne Static? I think not.

Well that was just my opinion, I mean, lots of elves move in places people even see, alleys, on rooftops, I don't know.... What is that supposed to mena anyways, Wayne Static???

http://www.static-x.com/html_site/

Wayne Static=guy in the middle of the pic with huge ass uber beard.

[Forest Junkie]

I've had an elf with a goatee and a mullet.

Only mansa...

[Louten]

I would think mullets would be more common. It's a much more easily maintained haircut for the general populace, -and- it keeps your shaggy dreadlocked hair in many ways out of your eyes.

Thumbs up for mullets.

[Tamarin]

I know it is physically possible for them to. I just don't think many people want beards on their elves, here are some reasons maybe why:
1.Most elves travel in the wilderness or in the city alot, and beards can get caught in things, so this might have the character not want to have a beard.

Caught on things?  I seriously doubt it.  I mean...what is there to catch your beard on, except possibly in the northlands?  And you would have to have a seriously amish/jewish/zz top kind of beard to do that.

[ashjpd]

Yah yah, I caught on finaly... I was thinking, (at the time I made my first post) That the only beads known to man/elf/etc... were those nice long, string beards, or maybe a nice half-giant one that is braded. :lol:

Anyways, with those nice long, 3 foot beards wouldn't be popular for the first reason I had. Happy now??? :wink:

[Tamarin]

Yes.  Way to backpedal.

[Carnage]

Maybe not when dealing with the same species, but we're not talking about the same species when we compare aging now are we? Take a monkey and a person, clearly their babies have their full hair growth sooner than ours, infact it takes ours a lot longer. Maybe it's not to due with aging, but the simple fact that they DO age and mature slower means certain things like hair is going to wait up for them too most likely.

Doesn't make a difference. Some hair follicles are more active than others. It all comes down to genetics and the cells themselves. Monkeys need to be born with hair for insulation and warmth. Back with neandrathals they were most likely born with body hair since they needed to keep their bodies warm. But humans, today, do not need to be born hairy since we have a variety of tools to keep us warm.

As FJ said, it has absolutely nothing to do with aging. It all comes down to the cell and when it's triggered to grow. If there's a need for the hair to grow quickly or there's some sort of genetic mutation where you grow hair super fast, than you're going to grow hair super fast. But in a world like today, where hair is increasingly unnecessary, there's no need for hair to grow at anything besides a slow pace.

[crymerci]

I don't think all elves need to be alike.  There can be hairy elves, and there can be fat elves.

[Socko]

My first elf had stubble.

It was edited out on acceptance, however. I'd always thought elves were hairless.

[ashjpd]

Hmmm..
Well, in Earth, we don't need much hair anymore, by average on where you live. Anyways, Zalanthas, hot, desert planet, I think that their genetics with hair and such would be based off that type of world. I mean, wouldn't you think that living, and growing on the planet, your body wouldn't need to activate any, even if some of those cells. Also, I would think it would be annoying for an elf to have a beard, cause them to get hotter and sweat more, so maybe that is another reason why.  :roll:
Thoughts?

[Angela Christine]

How long has the Known World been a desert?  (I refuse to speculate on the climate of the rest of the planet).  It could be that as little as 2000 years ago the area that is now the Known World was not a desert.  In the real world a salt flat usually indicates that a salt marsh, salt lake or salt sea used to occupy the space, that is why the ground is so flat.  The edge of the silt sea gives the impression that a real ocean may have been there once, the bottom of an ocean or large lake is often silty.  You can also find traces of dry riverbeds and such here and there.  

Personally I suspect that before the apocolypse (you need an apocolypse to be post-apocolyptic) the south was lusher than the north and that the north was already comparitively arid.  When the southern wetlands dried up, all the ducks, fish, and seaweed died because they could not survive without wetlands.  With the great die-off of wetland and rainforest vegetation, severe desertification quickly turned much of the land to sandy or rocky wasteland.  The north was already dryer forests and plains, with plants and animals adapted to living in a comparitively arid environment, so when the environement became more arid most of them survived.  Um, but that realy doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand.

As far as I can tell, humans on earth haven't evolved much in the last couple thousand years, even when they moved from one climate to another.  If a black family from africa moves to Norway their children aren't born blond.  On the other hand, there are some strong mutagenic elements at work in the known world, causing apparently normal people to give birth to seriously mutated yet viable offspring.  My point?  You can have as much hair as you want.  It is perfectly reasonable for any given PC to have a beard, a hairy ass, hairy back, etc.  No one would blink an eye if they saw someone as hairy as Robin Williams or Wolfman Jack in the Known World.  You can also be as hairless as you want, no back hair, no butt hair, no pubic hair, hairless legs, hairless arms, no beard, fuzzy beard, no eyebrows, no eyelashes, etc.    

You can have as much or as little hair as you want, regardless of race or sex.  With the obvious  exception of muls and dwarves, who are always completely hairless.  Well, and mantis, I doubt that they have hair in the same way that mammals do.  But your elves, humans, half-elves, half-giants, etc., can have great bushy beards, only be able to grow peach fuzz on their cheeks, or be completely hairless.  Genetics and climate aren't issues because of the variable climate and mutagenic nature of the environment.


Angela Christine

[Petra]

Japanese grow facial hair, they just have thinner beards than many other ethnicities.  True native Americans on the other hand have no body hair, any you see that do are of mixed ancestry.

I remember years ago a friend of mine applied for an elf with a beard and was rejected with something along the lines of "Your application has been rejected because elves have no beards."  Well lo and behold a week later I see a bearded elf in game, so naturally I assumed him a half-elf.  Since then I've seen a number of bearded elves, PC and NPC alike, and quite honestly, I don't like it  :x.  Yes I realize Arm elves are not Tolkien elves, no need to remind me for the 100th time!  Still, I don't picture them as hairy folk at all and therefore favor the idea of elves as beardless people.  On the occasions I've made male elves I've even gone so far as to say something in their mdesc like: "He has a face which refuses to house facial hair" just to solidify his beardless...ness.

[Petra]

Oh, and just to add to that... evolution doesn't necessary promote being hairless with a desert climate.  Ever seen the back of a Turkish man?   :lol:  They wear carpets on their back and that's evolution's way of developing protection against sand.  The hair acts as a filter.  Generally, ethnicities who are very hairless come from hot and humid climates as opposed to hot and dry, which Zalanthas is.

[John]

I now love the idea of a hairy elf simply because it's so un-Tolkeiny

[Petra]

I now love the idea of a hairy elf simply because it's so un-Tolkeiny

Why do we even call them elves if the idea is to make them as un"Tolkien"-like as possible?  I never understood that.  Personally, I think there are similarities and I don't see that as a problem.

[Forest Junkie]

Yes I realize Arm elves are not Tolkien elves, no need to remind me for the 100th time!

Arm elves are not Tolkien elves....my apologies, I just had to. =P

I actually like the idea that some elves may have beards. The fact that people have beards IRL is purely hereditary, based upon our genes. It is not impossible for elves to have beards, AFAIK, in Arm, based on this rule. I don't know...I really like the fact that I -have- seen elves with beards. It adds a bit of uniqueness to their pc's, and diversity to the game.

[Kalden]

Japanese grow facial hair, they just have thinner beards than many other ethnicities. True native Americans on the other hand have no body hair, any you see that do are of mixed ancestry.

Yeah, I've always played as elves having thinner facial and body hair, and that seems to work out alright. Of course, there could be the occassional hairy elven freak, but I think that elves having thin body hair is more elvish and fits.

[ashjpd]

Hmm maybe another reason why they have beards..
It shows they are smart, I mean, generally old people are smarter then the young and with a whicked beard, you look older.

Or maybe it might be part of their uniform, like houses do. A clan or something of the sort. Lots of ideas.