Wild Animals and the bash command

[UnderSeven]

I agree whole hearted 7.  As I stated ealier, these animals are death traps, you take a maxed out warrior and they could get killed by a carru that just happens to bash five times in a row.  The fact that the carru without bashing five times in a row doesn't reflect it's ability to luck out.  

This doesn't reflect their lack of AI either, because if you make that arguement that leaves players with the choice of either A) getting killed by npcs because they treated them like pcs or B) making use of how stupid they are and always shooting them from two rooms away.

A player should not be forced to make this choice.

I've brought this issue up before, but I still feel very strongly.  ALL I ASK, is a short delay between bashes.  That isn't much to ask, it doesn't change that these beasts are dangerous.  But if we can't have the delay, then boost these animals up so EVERYTHING they do reflects their ability and not just one skill.

[X-D]

Well, we know npc's are bound by the same rules (or lack of) as mobs.
How, by the ever popular....

An allanaki soldier shouts "Stop in the name of the highlord!"
85hp 100mv 112st standing, walking>
An allanaki soldier sheaths a shortsword
An allanaki soldier sheaths a longsword
An allanaki soldier attempts to subdue you but fails!
An allanaki soldier draws a longsword
An allanaki soldier draws a shortsword
An allanaki soldier slices you very hard in the head
An allanaki soldier pierces you on the leg.

62hp 100mv 76st standing, walking> flee self
You flee to the east
An allanaki soldier arrives from the west
62hp 92mv 77st standing, running>nosave on
An allanaki soldier sheaths a shortsword
An allanaki soldier sheaths a longsword
An allanaki soldier attempts to subdue you but fails!
nosave on
An allanaki soldier draws a longsword
An allanaki soldier draws a shortsword
An allanaki soldier's slash does frightening damage to your neck!
An allanaki soldier pierces you in the head for unspeakable damage!
7hp 92mv 10st standing, running> say Fuck!
An allanaki soldier slashes you very hard in the head!
BEEP!

A Npc can move/sheath/subdue/draw/attack/move no lag.

Now, don't mind no lag on sheath/subdue since I can do that also, but to fail then be able to draw right away...eeewww, In a way the old script when they used to drop weapons to subdue you was better, at least if they failed punching was probly not gonna kill you before you could flee/nosave.

Also, at one time npc/mob scripts were very simple, the no lag on commands made sense, but now these scripts are becoming quite powerful, even to the point that some mobs/npc's are able to work together in groups, and I'm not talking about just simple group attacks either.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I agree. With the advancement of Armageddon's scripting abilities, I should think we could see more intelligent actions from NPCs as opposed to simplistic buffing methods of leveling the playing field.

[Carnage]

NPCs ARE mobs. Mob is short for mobile object, but it generally applies to any sort of character ran by the computer.

[X-D]

Everybody knows that Carnage, but some years ago on the old gdb people were bitching about people calling npc's mobs since it was origanely a H&S mud term, hence the distinction made, animals in mud can often be called mobs with nobody complaining because they can be treated as just that, mindless/stupid animals, where as NPCs should be treated as thinking creatures rather then "mobile objects".
(edit)

Though, on topic with the thread, current lack of delay and all that on commands does make it hard to treat them as anything -but- mobs.

[jhunter (not logged)]

The only problems I have with the bash thing are; multiple bashes with no delay like a pc has when doing them, and the fact that outdoor rooms are supposed to represent a much larger area...hence, bashing a char into another outdoor room is a bit cheesy IMHO.

I also find it rather strange that when the same creature is in close combat with my pc (who is skilled enough to evade or block all melee attacks from the beast) then the creature lowers it's head and charges and manages to knock the same char to the ground.

I mean, the beast even shows you what it's going to do before it does it, you can evade all other attacks from it, but when it charges you suddenly just stand there and let it hit you?!!!!

Anyway, I agree that alot of the npc bashes I've seen are pretty bugged and overpowered.

[sacac]

Hmm.. I misspelt some words.. Hopefully your aren't being mid-evil knight thing and standing and not moving, just using your shield and sword.

So since you aren't being that, then you would be hopping around, ducking, rolling, trying to dodge, right? so you wouldn't get the full blow and a bash of a giant spider when your really close to it and barely duck letting the bigger part of a leg fly over your body, and spider, alright They should be able to kick without lag.

[Anonymous]

So since you aren't being that, then you would be hopping around, ducking, rolling, trying to dodge, right? so you wouldn't get the full blow and a bash of a giant spider when your really close to it and barely duck letting the bigger part of a leg fly over your body, and spider, alright They should be able to kick without lag.

Your arguement is flawed.  Weaving about is purely in relation to normal combat attacks as when you do get struck you get hit with a normal combat attack.  Their combat skills are not what they normally use.  Therefore no matter how much dodging you are doing it, it has nothing to do with how much delay they get.

Another thing, if your arguement were to hold true, than a uber bad ass fighter who could dodge the regular attacks, should be just as adept with the special ones.  But they're not

[ashjpd]

I wouldn't think that all anmials goals are to knock you down and kill you. Maybe some of them want to see what you can do and give you a shot, I mean, after all, they have brains also. They could yes, but would they really want to? Maybe if they were on the verge of death, and the only way for them to get away, is to knock you down and run away, then I think it would be pretty awesome. Plus, with the whole time thing, with letting the carru keep on doing it, the time in zalanthas would let them do it really, at that speed, it is just the npc is not emoting anything. Or that is what I think/believe.

[Quirk]

Another thing, if your arguement were to hold true, than a uber bad ass fighter who could dodge the regular attacks, should be just as adept with the special ones.  But they're not

Yes, but this is a flaw in the code, as has been pointed out on many numerous occasions. The ability of subdue or, I believe, kick, to bypass the defence skill makes no logical sense - if you cannot hit someone with your weapons because they defend so well, there's no way you're going to get a hand or foot past their guard. Given that this is arguably broken on humanoids, I don't think you can claim that it's special intentional behaviour designed to boost animal NPCs.

Quirk

[ashjpd]

I would also think that if you were mounted, it would be a lot easier to knock you to the ground, or maybe the tembo would have an erge to bash your mount? That would be pretty fun to see.

[Anonymous]

I personally don't like the barroom/citystreet aggroness of npc's, and the skill of them, even like...foofy noble npc's in bars.

You draw your knife, stabbing it quickly between the smirking templar's ear.

Your backstab does uber damage to the templar.
98/98 etc etc
The bartender's slash hits you on the head hard.
The large breasted serving girl's slap grazes your arm.
The skinny man's pound solidly thunks your chest.
48/98

The dark haired wench's kick knocks you to the ground.
40/98

The blood-eyed man standing in the back's hit does horrendous things to you!
-2/98

Death.

How can everyone from all the corners of the bar suddenly react to you that quickly???

[Tamarin]

I dunno but hopefully the new brawl code will prevent all this.

[spawnloser]

Actually, it probably won't.  Brawl code is to allow bar fights...not brawl murders.

[Tamarin]

Um....oh yeah.  Then I guess people will have to grow their fingernails really long and use them to backstab that pesky templar instead.

[Lasakar]

I dunno but hopefully the new brawl code will prevent all this.

I too. But you should remove your knife first....

You draw your knife, stabbing it quickly between the smirking templar's ear.

:wink:

[UnderSeven]

Sacac,  before you bring up that weaving argument again, please instead of repeating yourself, address some of the issues that shot you down every other time you brought it up.  I'm not opposed to standing your ground, but your argueing the same thing and people are pointing out the same flaws in it and then you're argueing it again without actually rebutting any of their arguments.  Kind of makes it pointless to even bring it up.

How npcs all center on one pc I don't nessicarily think is such a bad thing.  For one, it's a bar, they're constantly looking out for trouble.  Also the fight in gameis probably moving a lot faster than the fight would be in reality.  Lets say you whack the person a time or two, they natrually try to distance themselves to either 1) escape or 2) counter attack and all the while the bouncers and such are alterted by your attack and everyone around you backinug up (as people tend to when a fight braeks out) and then all rush at you.  I think this code is pretty solid.  

Npc soldiers.  I'm going to have to say the city state criminal system isn't really that broken.  Mainly because the soldiers probably only represent a small number of the people whom are actually there.  I'd say that it's fairly likely a pc can escape a single soldier, it would be hard to escape two, three would be pretty much impossible.  They're trained to work together and do team work stuff.  Drawing weapons right after a subdue though?  Eh, that's a little hockey.  Do npcs follow any of the delay rules pcs have?

[X-D]

Do npcs follow any of the delay rules pcs have?

No.

Cept maybe movement.

[Bogre]

Npc soldiers.  I'm going to have to say the city state criminal system isn't really that broken.  Mainly because the soldiers probably only represent a small number of the people whom are actually there.  I'd say that it's fairly likely a pc can escape a single soldier, it would be hard to escape two, three would be pretty much impossible.  They're trained to work together and do team work stuff.  Drawing weapons right after a subdue though?  Eh, that's a little hockey.  Do npcs follow any of the delay rules pcs have?

And it is possible to escape from soldiers without running to the rinth or something. Just hard to do it, and even harder to do it with a try to emote kicking the soldier in the shins when he grabs your ass.

[UnderSeven]

It is possible to escape without running into the rinth.  I played a pickpocket once who did just find and avoided the rinth.  I went in it maybe two times. You just have to be creative.