Of three different 'rogue' types

[SailorMars]

Seems like there's three different non-karma rogue types: burgler, pick pocket, and assassin. I'm not speaking from a lot of experience in this area, but do the burglers and pick pockets see a lot of action, guild-wise? Do many people play them? (I know for a fact assassin is plenty popular, that's why I'm not worrying about it much.) It almost seems like burgler/pick pocket could be rolled into one guild, as their skillsets can't be too far apart, or would that be overpowered?

Again, I'm not coming at this question with a lot of practical experience, but I imagine plenty of you are, so share away.

[Xygax]

I personally think all three of these guilds are -outstanding- and highly useful.  All of them (eventually) make brilliant spies, good con-men, and great straight-up thieves, thugs and killers.  That said, they all also require patience and subtlety and are often VERY difficult to RP in a way that doesn't irritate other players OOCly.

It's especially challenging to be a criminal sort, have everyone -know- OOCly you're a criminal sort, and still get away with things.  But, none of these guilds are restricted to criminal activities.  All of them can be useful in any of a large variety of "legitimate" careers.

-- X

[Kalden]

I play criminal types frequently, though not always successfully. Not so sure how much I should comment, but pickpocket seems vastly weaker than burglar. They're one advantage is that they nearly never fail at stealing, while burglars fail all the time, but burglars get pretty much all the same skills and more. I suppose that advantage makes up for their weaker skillset, though, for just making money.

I can't comment on how much people play them. Where I'm at, pickpockets don't seem common, but maybe I'm just not looking closely. Obviously the 'rinth is crawling with all three of the classes.

[Ueda]

Burglar
Burglars are adept at breaking-and-entering, and possess skills which allow them to perform exactly that. Picking locks, climbing walls, and moving silently are the primary attributes of burglars. From the very start, however, burglars are also fair fighters and possess some degree of a warrior's talent with weapons.

Master burglars begin to learn the path of the assassin, most of all. The art of critical strike against opponents (e.g. backstab) becomes available, as does the method of working with poisons and setting traps.

Burglars typically find work being self-employed thieves, breaking into the homes of people and taking what they find. A burglar does have a talent for directly "nicking" as well, and can make a small living by simply stealing from the unwitting persons around him. In addition, many burglars are excellent spies (perhaps better than any other guild), and some are able to find work for contract to do espionage or infiltration jobs. The luckiest will find a permanent contract with a powerful organization as a bard, spy, thief, assassin, or all four.

Pickpocket
Pickpockets are masters of the art of stealing. They differ greatly from other thieves such as burglars in that the pickpocket's skill lies almost wholly in lifting items directly from their victims.

Aside from stealing, a pickpocket's skills include some ability to climb walls, the knowledge of how to move silently in the city streets, and how to con merchants into giving lower prices than they intend to. Some small skill with weapons is also a pickpocket's province. Master pickpockets usually learn how to become unseen and how to listen to conversations going on nearby.

Typically, pickpockets work on their own, nicking whatever they can from passers-by. However, some pickpockets can obtain contracts to steal specific items, and very good pickpockets can develop reputations which will earn them very highly paid contracts. Fortunate pickpockets are able to obtain permanent contracts with noble houses or even from templars.

Trust me, there alot different.

[wizturbo]

I wouldn't look at just the skill's list when trying to gauge advantages of either class.

Read the helpfile, and take that as a guideline, its very much the truth.

Only thing I'd recommend against, is choosing the thief subclass -with- a thief guild.  I did that on my first character, and i felt very limited in what i could do, because the only thing I was suited for was stealing :-)

With that said, I see the thief classes as the city rangers.  Very flexible.  Don't get stuck into the role of actually being a criminal because you chose a thief guild...however I'd strongly recommend against the pickpocket guild if you dont want to get your hands dirty lifting stuff.

[Kalden]

Burglars are just more versatile than a pickpocket from the beginning, as well as significantly more powerful in the long run. Pickpockets are good at stealing items, and that's about it.

[sacac]

Well.. Yeah.. I happen to enjoy Burglar a great deal.
Sure.. it pisses people off, when they come home and they don't have anything besides the furniture

Playing either are very tricky so people of "Elite RPing skills" don't call you that horrible twinkish word.. what was it.. oh yeah, Twink.

[grog]

I'd have to say I like playing pickpockets, hands down.  Not sure I can explain why though?

[Tamarin]

Sure.. it pisses people off, when they come home and they don't have anything besides the furniture

I steal the furniture too...and then wait to see their reactions...nothing sez "i just fucked you" like a missing table.

[Delirium]

I hope you're joking, Uberjazz.

Stealing everything someone owns besides their furniture (unless it can all fit very easily into a single pack) is bad enough - stealing their furniture is just downright stupid.

Maybe it's just a personal preference, but I just really dislike the idea of looting a place clean. Back when I played a burglar, the few times I found a good mark, I stole what looked the most valuable of all the things there, just enough that I could carry easily in a belt-pack or something. I would imagine that realistically, a burglar would want to get in and out as fast as he/she could, so they'd just snatch the expensive looking jewelry, some silk items, and scram.

[Tamarin]

Yeah, I'm joking...though once, I stole some furniture and left all the goodies.

[Angela Christine]

Yeah, over-robbing is like shooting yourself in the foot.  Most of the stuff you are taking won't be worth your time, some of the stuff you are taking you may not even be able to sell!  But once people know there are over-enthusiastic burglars in the area they stop keeping anything valuable in their rooms, they may pay to have a better lock installed or give up their rooms altogether and risk keeping their things in a barraks.  I've never belonged to a clan where some of my stuff didn't go missing, but at least it was only some of my stuff rather than all of my stuff.

Last time I bothered renting a room it got hit at least 3 times in 3 OOC days, and shockingly none of my neighbours saw a thing!  I was collecting a certain kind of unusual but not terribly valuable hide, I think I had three of them, with the intent of ordering a set of armor made from the hides when I had a few more.  It was a mini-quest I'd set for myself, uncommon armor made from critters you killed with your own hands would be cool.  Naturally the theif ruined that for me.  The first time they took the valuable portable stuff, nearly everything in my chest.  The second time they took everything but the furnature, even items they wouldn't be able to sell for more than a couple 'sid each.  The third time they took the furnature.  I'd even set out a collection of skulls all over my appartment in the hopes of scarring them off, they also stole all the  skulls except the elven ones (don't ask why I happend to have around 10 humanoid skulls, it was just a thing).  Since then I haven't bothered paying for an apartment, because it's cheaper to just throw my furnature over the shieldwall.  I might try again in six months, when the present crop of "super thieves" gets bored.  

Or I could start playing halfgiants, then I could carry everything I owned.  That way I could get by without an apartment.  At least as a halfgiant I could pick up all my furntature before I logged out, forcing people to rob me when I am actually logged in and there is some chance of being caught.  It is very disconcerting take a nap and wake up to find someone has stolen you bed out from under you.


Angela Christine

[SailorMars]

It is very disconcerting take a nap and wake up to find someone has stolen you bed out from under you.

Very disconcerting indeed.

[Twilight]

One of the best times I have had as a renter is when some thief started to steal my stuff, 1-3 items at a time (once every rl day or so).  Of course they started with the loose coins and the really great armor, but it was fun sitting there trying to figure out how the krath I was going to stop the person.  

My only beef with the lockpicking skill is that it doesn't let the thief re-lock things.  I had a fortunate house in that I don't think many people tried to pick my door, or I would have lost a lot more stuff.  And the thief was kind enough to close it, but obviously didn't re-lock it.  But really, the only way I noticed that I was missing things was that the door was not locked.  If it hadn't been for that,  it would have been much, much longer before I even noticed that anything was missing.  If I was a thief wanting to go back somewhere at a later date, I would want to re-lock the door.  Not only to hide what I have done, but to deter other thieves who would steal the stuff I am going back for later.

[Testing]

I play pretty much exclusively thieves and sneaks, and in my humble opinion they are all extremely balanced in terms of usefulness.  Burglars, without prior connections, are extremely difficult to train in.  Pickpockets can start right in, but are limited by a narrower skillset.  Assassins are little more than sneaky weak warriors until you figure out how to train in some of those hard to reach skills.

I don't think I'm giving to much away by saying that these three classes are balanced in such a way, it seems to me, as to complement each other nicely.  In other words, what you as a burglar might lack in one area, your pickpocket and assassin buddies might be able to make up for if you work in a team.  Think about it.  That means that, if properly played, any of these guilds should be able to get very involved with plot stuff, espescially if you know your limits and are willing to acknowledge them.

You don't want every rogue to be able to turn into an uber-thief.  I personally like the guilds just the way they are, they force you to either compensate, cooperate, or be creative in overcoming the limitations of your particular guild with regard to skillset.  And believe me, there's ALWAYS a workaround.