Mantises.. Halflings, etc.

[Gaare]

Why are all races some eager to kill.  I know many reasons but trade can be beneficial to all.  Why I can't see any mantis trader or an gith caravan? They are smart enough to make connections.

[Petra]

Good point.  It depends on the race, however.  I don't think halflings view non-halflings as sentient, or anything other than potential food.  So the last thing that they would think to do is open up trade with other humanoids.  The same can be said with mantis.  As for gith, I don't know ... I guess they have their reasons too.  Maybe they have some racial bias against all non-gith.  Some races are have aggressive and non-aggressive members, for example, elves.  

Just think of halfling and mantis in the same light as you would a tembo or a gortok.  They want to devour you, nevermind that they're humanoid.

[darksheep]

I think it's because some just hate the others so much that the thought of trade is impossible. Kinda like different cultures in our society.

[X-D]

I'm not gonna say why because it should be found out IC, but Gith should not be included in the group.

Mantis, as the docs state, have traded in the past, and don 'hate' anybody.

Halflings, Yup, your all food. But why would a halfling have need of trade? the Forest provides all.

[Teleri]

I believe that Petra is completely right about the halflings' state of mind, that they think every other race is just another source of food.  Since the halflings seclude themselves so far into the Grey Forest, the only contact other races have with them are through their hunters.  I imagine that even if a human or an elf got to wherever the halflings are concentrated as their main village, they would be quickly slaughtered and eaten.  So, halflings are completely incompatable with any other sentient race.

Gith, as they are all of a tribal mindset, most likely have some idea of territory and the survival of their people.  Most likely, something has driven them away from their homeland, or they are merely seeking to conquer even more land for their tribe to live on.  They're probably looking to claim more resources, and view every other race and tribe as a threat to their goals.  Perhaps some shortly-lived, tense alliances can last between the gith and another race or tribe, though in my opinion they are doomed to fail because of the aggressive, expansionistic gith.  As for trading, the gith probably don't have anything to trade except for what they have stolen.  Everything they obtain from raids is surely used, or stockpiled for emergencies.  Besides...why would you want some nasty, beat-up gith gear?

Mantis are somewhat odd, as from the history of the Known World it is said that they traded with other civilizations after being rediscovered.  They withdrew themselves further into their valleys soon after, only to lash out in an attack against local gypsies.  In my opinion, the mantis were most likely under the control of some far more intelligent race, which manipulated them to kill the gypsies.  They probably aren't starved for resources other than food, so their aggression against outsiders can likely be attributed to hunger.  However, since they were all but wiped out by Allanak a while ago (as the history file states), it is far more likely that they now associate other races with danger and possible deception.  Thus, they find it better to kill others first and eat them, gaining some food and eliminating a potential foe, rather than risk trade and possibly be slaughtered later on.

Many of these statements and explanations are, of course, my own opinions and what I pieced together from the evidence offered by the website documentation.  The average Zalanthan commoner living in a major settlement would more than likely be ignorant to all of these factors and possibilities.  To them, the gith, halflings, and mantis are all just things to be feared and thus better off dead.  Tribals might understand these other groups, to a limited degree, if they are in close contact with any of those races.

[Quirk]

I suspect the gith hanging round Red Storm are there to trade. There would be little other sensible reason for them to be there. I for one would love to see a gith merchant hanging round there.

Quirk

[Delirium]

I for one would love to PLAY a gith.

It is my dream. *wistful sigh*

[Angela Christine]

Gith - They do trade.  It is pretty well known that there is at least one town that has a few NPC gith walking the streets.  The helpfiles also mention some specific intertribe trading between gith and other tribal people.  One of their problems is that they don't have much to offer.  They survive in the worst territory, the arms and armor they make is crap that isn't worth carrying home to sell even if you get it for free, and they aren't known to produce anything that anyone would want.  

Halflings - No known trade.  I think this is both a language and a cultural thing.  Kentu isn't like the other modern humanoid languages _at_all_.  It's like all the other humanoids are are speaking a romance language (derived from Latin, for example French, Spanish, Italian, etc.) and the halfings are speaking Navajo or Japanese.  Without a Rosetta stone it is hard to even know where to begin trying to talk.  The culture thing is probably more important than the communication problem.  Trade does not offer halflings anything they want, they have what they want.  The don't want more possessions, great wealth, fancy weapons, fine clothes, exotic foods, or any other "benefits" of trade.  They like their clothes, their food, their primitive lifestyle.  Most likely if other humanoids stayed out of the forest halflings wouldn't leave their territory to hunt humanoids, the humans and elves they eat replace the food animals and plants that are taken from their forest by outsiders.  Think "buddist cannibals," they just want to be one with nature and meditate and stuff, but they are also very pragmatic and reckognise that meat is meat.  I bet halflings wouldn't think "tampon soup" was disgusting.  :sniff:

Mantis - No known trade.  Again, there is both a language and a culture problem here.  Their language may be even more alien to humanoid languages then Kentu.  If the Halflings are speaking Navajo, these guys are speaking Binary.  Their language may not even be entirely sound-based, other social insectoids are thought to use scent, pheremone production and wiggling as part of their communication.  Humanoids are short two limbs, two antennae, and haven't learned how to conciously detect pheremones or produce select pheremones on demand, so the humans are crippled.  Mantis don't have lips, so they have to try to render humanoid languages as a series of hisses and clicks, which doesn't work so well.  Their superior internal telepathy can't be discounted either, they may not really recognise individuals outside their own hive-mind as "people," plenty of humans don't consider other -humans- from outside their own group to be real people.  The fact that, from a mantis perspective, humans do not look, sound or smell like people probably doesn't help.  Even if they got past all that and decided to try to talk to the funny little soft-shelled people, what do they need?  It is thought that their favorite food is elf, there aren't many people that will be willing to trade fresh (live) elf meat to them.  They are not into furnature, clothes, and other trade goods.  They do use weapons, but they know how to make their favorite kind of weapons, and probably do a better job of it than any 4-limbed softshell would.  They have natural chitin instead of skin, so leather armors wouldn't be worth anything to them.  Their needs are simple: they want food and they want a secure territory to hunt and raise their grubs, entangling themselves with other races will not help them get either of those things.

In order to want trade you either need something that you can't get on your own, or you need to have personal greed.  Halflings aren't greedy, mantis aren't personal, and both are able to provide the things they consider necessary for themselves.  They have never had coffee or chocolate, so they don't know what they are missing and are foolishly content with what they have.

Part of the reason those races aren't available is because their mindsets are so alien.  They really aren't human.  Elves can be summed up as being "like lanky, tribalistic humans that like to steal," it won't be completely accurate, but it will be close.  Mantis really aren't just humans in funny suits, they are something other.

I could be completely off base.  I started playing long after those races were closed.

Angela Christine

[Anonymous]

I for one would love to PLAY a gith.

It is my dream. *wistful sigh*

THANK YOU!

You people who want to play halflings are just suffering from Bilbo-itis.  Give me a warlike-gith any day.

Phooey on the mantis too.

[X-D]

Yup, hoping gith opens, (or fale) But not before my current pc dies.

[grog]

I've wanted to play mantis since I started playing, about three or four years ago. (I had one approved at one time, but I had to take a long break and start a new account when I got back)  I realize they have an alien mindset, but they are still intelligent creatures that can (with difficulty) communicate with humans.  I believe the hunt can include more then just food, but my viewpoint and those of the immortals most likely don't mesh on that.    

Luckily for me, there are tons of other interesting and fun things to do on Armageddon.  

[Petra]

You people who want to play halflings are just suffering from Bilbo-itis. Give me a warlike-gith any day.

No way!  The only similarity between ArmageddonMUD halflings and typical fantasy genre halflings (or hobbits) is the name.

[Anonymous]

No way!  The only similarity between ArmageddonMUD halflings and typical fantasy genre halflings (or hobbits) is the name.

Sure, Samwise, sure.

[grog]

No way!  The only similarity between ArmageddonMUD halflings and typical fantasy genre halflings (or hobbits) is the name.

And a tendency to form 'close' relationships with the same sex.   :twisted:

[Armaddict]

I'd rather see halflings than gith.

Sorry, I just see gith as raiders, while the culture shift into halflings is...awesome, heh.

[Anonymous]

Gith as mindless raiders would be a sad result of the clan being opened.

But they have all of the RP potential that blackmoon had and more.  And, from what I gather, larger numbers to justify their position of power in the world.  The whole concept of competiting within your tribe and intra-tribe conflict is awesome.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Think of it this way...

You're a halfling. You live in the Grey Forest, the most fruitful place in the Known World. You and your kin are happy there, but the too-talls are always trying to push their way in. They come with bows to hunt your game, they come with axes to chop down your trees, they burn your wood, they trample your lands... They'd invade your home if you ever dropped your guard and gave them the chance! So trade with them? Never! You're too busy keeping those fat, smelly, tree-murdering humans, elves and dwarves from invading your land. They are stupid, barbaric, speak non-sensical city-gibberish, have no respect for you and your people, and are good for nothing but a mid-morning snack.

You're a mantis. You live with your clutch, and are entirely devoted to them. So devoted, in fact, that there is no longer a 'you', but an 'us'. You protect your kin, you care for those who can't care for themselves, and feed those who can't feed themselves. There are other peoples that live in your home, other humanoids, who eat the same things you do, taking up space and food that your clutch could use. It seems an easy fix to kill and eat those who kill and eat more than they need, thus providing for your clutch in both the short-term and the long-term. Unfortunately, they started fighting back, actively trying to drive your clutch, your people from the lands they've occupied for ages. Why trade with these lazy, greedy humans, dwarves and elves when you and your clutch needs the meat on their bones and the clothes on their backs? And even if you were willing to trade, what would you have to offer them? No, it's better to eat their meat and be done with it... It'll teach those two-legged fools to stay away from your clutch.

You're a gith. Your entire life has been hard... The only fertile land nearby is, and always has been, occupied by the city-dwellers, and you're always at odds with other nomadic people for hunting grounds. To survive as a gith, you soon learned that you had to be strong (or at least useful) to survive. If you were lazy, slow, unskilled, stupid, or weak, then you did not survive. That is why the surviving gith are so strong and so noble... You are able to live despite city-dwellers and the filthy nomad peoples' harassment, and you and your people are quite proud of that fact. Despite your strength, you still need food, water, and materials to make clothes, weapons and shelter to survive. Who better to take such things from than the city-dwellers and nomads that put your people through such hardship to begin with? You're a raider, yes, but a proud raider, one with a cause and purpose; to provide for your tribe. So, truly, you do trade with other humanoids... You trade them a sword in the gut for whatever they're carrying.

See? You just have to look at it from their perspective.

[Lasakar]

Halflings use the same word for prisoners and food. That says all!
Read it somewhere in the orginal Dark Sun material, don't know where.

[Petra]

Amusingly, I believe the history page talks about halflings and other races meeting at some council to discuss something about the dragon or whatever.  This implies they once lead slightly different lifestyles, if they're able to sit with and discuss things with their food   :shock:.  Furthermore, I remember playing a few halflings back in the day, one who owned a wagon and travelled from Allanak to Tuluk as a merchant -- she still ate people on the side though .  I also played more than one mantis who lounged in Allanaki taverns frequently.  Of course I went to Allanak!  There was nowhere else to have armor tailored to fit my odd insectoid proportions.  But that was then and this is now.  I don't think the psyche of today's halfling and mantis supports so much as even contemplating communication with other races (especially mantis, who cannot even use the Way with humanoids, only other animals) let alone actually doing it.

[sacac]

Yeah.. Language is a barrier..
Size is a barrier..
Agreeing on food items.. Difficult..
agreeing with food items.. Extremely difficult.
I say we invade and take over

[Vositus]

The Red Fangs

Settled in the plains far west of the city-state of Allanak, this elven tribe is known for its association - and sometimes even cooperation - with the gith tribes roaming the wastes. They have been known to send parties to Allanak to sell their wares.

This may or may not mean actually trading, but it's a little usefull knowledge.

I call the xanthous, sloe-eyed gith when it becomes available!

[Twilight]

I'm part of the gith fan club as well.

Its hard to talk about the gith without having read the racial doc.  Yes, there is further information on them, like for a lot of other clans.  Yes, it does to an extent explain certain questions raised here.  Campaign for opening gith so you can read it!