Gratitude vs Entitlement

[FantasyWriter]

Y'all listen up while an old man tells his tale...

  When I was a you a young whipper-snappers growin' up in the back side of a podunk desert village, I use to here this story 'bout some folk that I just couldn't take the meanin' of back then.

  It was 'bout this big group of slaves,  more than a handful of tribes, at least ten iffin I remember, right.  Had some connection from way back when what most of 'em 'ad done fogot.

  The old king Tektolnes had struck a deal with this long lost forefather of theirs, to take care of him and his in repayment of a debt what had saves the whole kingdom, but then the king's son rose to power, but that's a whole 'nother story.  But the son forgot the debt, or didn't care, and enslaved the tribes that had multiplied and prospered beneath is father's rule.

  One day, generations after their enslavement,  this nobleman popped up, got in some trouble and fled out into the sands for a fair number of years. Comes back a third of a king's age later and turns out he's a water witch. Promised all sorts of stuff to the folk, tells 'em about their forgotten past and this mighty ancient sorcerer who promises 'em all a huge, green valley all their own if they will join him there.

  Takes the elders a long while ta decide, but they eventually choose freedom over bondage for their numerous peoples...

  How'd they get away, you say? Oh, that's a story for a different day, youngan.  Anyways...  They finally convince the king that they are more trouble than they are worth and they are allowed to leave the city. 

  Along the way, the old witch uses his power to keep them in food and water through the long trek to this distant valley. But the people aren't content.  They speak out to the witch 'bout how they had it better as the king's slaves than they did out on there own and many stirred and wanted to return to generation after generation of bandage and servitude.

  They missed tending the fields at the end of the whip and turning the great stone machines that ground the grain.  They missed getting the crumbs and crusts of bread from their masters' tables. They missed slavery.  They were tired of the magical oasises that would spring up providing them the clearest, most refreshing water they had ever tasted and the wondrous food that would "grow" out of the ground before their very eyes.

  "Well that's stupid," said the child. "Free food and water and they'd rather have the whip?"

  Ayup, you'd be surprised there how many people are like that.  There are really only two types of folk in the world.  Those who are thankful for what they have and the people around them that they get to share with, and the ones who always think the world owes 'em more than there is to have just fer breathin'. 

  Yah give 'em a handful of coin, and they spit in your face over how little it is.  Ya could give 'em a mountain of 'sid and they'd come-plain about not having a wagon to carry it around in.  Ya give 'em a wagon, and well... they come-plain about it being pulled my a team of inix instead of a mek'.  That's just the way it is. People who are thankful for what they have, are given and that they can give back, and those who want the world to bow down to their every whim.

  "Can I get a slice of that sweetcake, pleasir?"

  The old man drew in a deep breath, turned to look out across a lush, green valley rich-full of life, smiled and released a heavy sigh. Yes, child, you can have a slice, as soon as you pick up all those toys.

  "Yessir, thankya, sir, grampa." And he hurried around the room tidying his things as the old man cut a slice of sweetcake.

  Well, there's hope for some of 'em yet.

[Riev]

I don't see any allegory to the game at all.

[FantasyWriter]

I don't see any allegory to the game at all.

I love you too, Riev.

[Feu de Joie]

*strokes chin* And then?

[FantasyWriter]

*strokes chin* And then?

Heh, as Riev noticed, I'm just voicing a general frustration in a Zananthasized version of a four-thousand year old story rather than complaining.  It seems like every time we get something new and cool in the game, some people complain about it and how it isn't good enough it its "not the way I would have done it."

Not to be "that guy," but when I started playing, we didn't even know what skills branched on main guild or from which skills, you couldn't start with parry unless you went warrior.  Subguilds sucked except to mildly help round out a character. We certainly would have never been able to learn a skill without practicing it, lol.

I have always enjoyed the second half of the Exodous story from a psychological stand point due to how much it says about human nature and restlessness/ingratutude. And it is, in part, human nature, so I'm not really complaining about anyone or any complaint individually,  just voicing frustration at the whole unavoidable nature of the world.

[Dresan]

It sounds like you are annoyed that people are suggesting that warriors get backstab, even if its just in low level subguild version?

And so you taking the time to write a lengthy longwinded post to say these people are 'entitled' and should be 'grateful' for the status quo? Certain an original talking point these days.   I mean what's next after all? Classes getting ranger direction sense or rape being banned or something? Such crazy ideas being expressed and shared in the forums would probably ruin the game, right?

I dunno though, i think this is a community game where the players of today will become the staff of tomorrow. If enough people agree with the ideas expressed, maybe not today with the current staff, but someday with tomorrow's staff, warriors will have at least have access to subguild level backstab.

[Roon]

It seems like every time we get something new and cool in the game, some people complain about it and how it isn't good enough it its "not the way I would have done it."

Not to be "that guy," but when I started playing, we didn't even know what skills branched on main guild or from which skills, you couldn't start with parry unless you went warrior.  Subguilds sucked except to mildly help round out a character. We certainly would have never been able to learn a skill without practicing it, lol.

What complaint are you referring to? It is by no means true that people complain about every new thing. In fact, I've seen practically no complaints about any of what's new in Seasons.

But let's say there was something that someone was dissatisfied with. Should they shut up and suffer in silence because, er... because the game was once even more primitive than now, back in your day? Because you couldn't see which skills branched from what years ago, players are forced to be completely uncritical and approve of every facet of ArmageddonMUD? It kind of sounds like that's what you're implying.

The anti-criticism agenda that exists in every game's community is the worst part of every game's community. The entire concept of progress hinges on people pointing out the problems, whether that's in a game or any other part of life. If everyone just stayed silent and didn't voice their discontent with anything, nothing would ever improve. And while there's certainly such a thing as being over-critical, I don't think anyone can possibly claim that this community is that lately. This is probably the most positive it has ever been.

[titansfan]

I think there's a difference between complaints and discussion and it's a fine line.  There's plenty of stuff that is frustrating currently but it's not necessarily things that ruin the game. Those are things that definitely deserve open communications but complaining just to complain isn't the thing that needs to be done.

If you do have a issue then state it and then also state a solution with that.

PS: All the yous in this statement are generalized yous.

[Malken]

I thought this was a family rolecall.

[Lizzie]

I actually agree with FW. I've seen the same thing happen. The staff implements something new, to improve on something that either didn't exist before, or wasn't working properly before.

Most people are all "woah - new thing, SO glad, it does what we've been asking for all this time!" or they might say "very cool addition, looking forward to experimenting!" and give it a few weeks to try it out.

But then there are a few who will make a bee-line to the GDB or discord in their "reactionary" mode, immediately criticizing the new thing. "Yeah this sounds like a great idea but you haven't thought it through." Or "This might be a good change but you need to change it more THAT way instead of THIS way." or an old one that I haven't seen in awhile, but used to be a BIG trend: "why are you wasting time adding THIS, when resources should be directed to THAT instead?"

It's demoralizing to staff who come up with new things. It can make some staffers throw up their hands and ask themselves why they bother to  try.

[FantasyWriter]

I was not talking about anyone or any complaint in particular.
I wrote a prose commentary on something I think is a very real and deeply-ingrained part of the human psyche, and thus unavoidable in large communities.

A lot of people do a lot of work for this game, staff and players. And nearly everyone that is active in the community is a net positive force from what I have seen.

I'm not mad at anyone, or trying to correct anyone. Just...expressing my feelings. Gratitude is something that is very important in my culture, and I wanted to share that in the way that I know best. 

[roughneck]

It's the Moses experience. The people can't help it and anyone in leadership either understands this, or gets very frustrated.

[Tasemu]

People will cry, and it won't harm the game, it never did. What harmed in the past was the leaderships unable to properly handle those situations, at times picking sides, suppressing voices, snapping, etc. A neutral, firm stance from staff is the right one, and so far they they have demonstrated this clearly.

[Riev]

I thought it was pretty self-explanatory, so I would personally disregard the comments of people who repeatedly need to let us know they haven't played the game in years.

[Down Under]

I mean, kudos for writing up a Zalanthas Facebook/Quora post from my uncle (meant with love), it took me a few read throughs to understand what was going on haha...

I don't disagree. It's a game, and it can be a little bizarre how seriously people take it or feel affronted when things happen, or when Staff make decisions to do XYZ. There was so much explosion about Seasons and what a failure it would be and how shocking and disturbing it was that Staff would do this...

And then here we are, enjoying better numbers than we've had since 2015 or whatever, and nary a person says "I stand corrected".

It's much easier in this day and age to display vitriol and passion (even without data to back it up), than it is to say 'Hey, that seems neat, maybe I don't agree with it, but let's see how it goes'.

It's a free game, provided by people who volunteer their time for free (staff and players alike). I think we need to lower our expectations and just have fun with it, while it lasts, and while we last on planet Earth.

[Feu de Joie]

I will praise my breath when I have enough, and complain about it when I do not. I am both grateful for, and entitled to, my breath...


Anecdotally, I've found the people who complain the most are either in no pain at all and are just uncomfortable, or in more pain than anyone else. There rarely seems to be a middle ground, anecdotally.


In a thing made for fun, uncomfortable is worth complaining about.

[Riev]

If I'm reading your post correctly ...

You should maybe consider a free roleplaying game to be something less than the breath you need to stay alive.

There's also a disturbingly fine line between "wanting to help things be better" and "complaining that things aren't the way you want them to be"

[Feu de Joie]

Oh, yeah, people should /definitely/ prefer living over a free video game. I hope... I wasn't THAT unclear.

But nah, I was just pointing out that I can be entitled and grateful at the same time. I just don't have a lot of things I feel entitled to, that I think others empathize with feeling entitled to, except breath. I think everyone feels entitled to that, but also probably grateful for it? I hope.

And yeah, I agree that there's a disturbingly fine line between those two things. Clearly, I am misperceived. Neat.

[Dresan]

There's also a disturbingly fine line between "wanting to help things be better" and "complaining that things aren't the way you want them to be"

Hmmm.    I think your perspective on an issue tends to determines whether someone is doing one or the other.

I don't agree in what the OP is saying, but they have the right to say it and its certainly valid point of view. This is a forum to speak about topics on this game and unlike open chat discord no one is forced to read or see anything they don't want.

I respect and appreciate that they took the time to share their point of view, even though i don't agree with it.

After all, it was my choice to come to this forum, it was my choice click on the link, my choice read the post and finally my choice to respond.

[Aruven]

I was not talking about anyone or any complaint in particular.
I wrote a prose commentary on something I think is a very real and deeply-ingrained part of the human psyche, and thus unavoidable in large communities.

A lot of people do a lot of work for this game, staff and players. And nearly everyone that is active in the community is a net positive force from what I have seen.

I'm not mad at anyone, or trying to correct anyone. Just...expressing my feelings. Gratitude is something that is very important in my culture, and I wanted to share that in the way that I know best. 

It's all part of the times. I understand some of what you're saying, I think. If you played this game twenty years ago, the game today is like mega easy mode and unsatisfying in some ways. It's better in some, and more satisfying in others. Everyone that's played for awhile has their opinions.

I could always appreciate the characters, I don't frequent the discord often and rarely come to the GDB, because I read things that make me straight up despise people and want to slap the piss out of their mouth. But they play amazing characters, and if I just play the game and leave the technical/code to the regulars things seem to move along just fine. That's the magic of the game we play. This big collective story.

Figure out what approach works for you, let go of the past iterations of the game. They aren't coming back. The game is fun now and we have straight emotionless gangsters on staff. You have to be emotionally numb to deal with people based on how i've seen people act over 20 years here. I haven't been and never will be a staff member, and I have incredible respect for some of them that have stayed through so much drama and crocodile tears. We have a game because they stuck with it. I couldn't do it, i'd PK someone with elite staff powers and then tell them in an email I killed them for being a bitch and get kicked off staff.

It'll be gone one day, too. And every minute spent in some tedious or emotionally invested argument that wasn't actually through a character will seem really wasted.