Pitons and climb securing (Suggestion)

[Kavrick]

So, I love climbing, I really do. The game has tons of really cool places to explore but it's way too dangerous to incentivize it. With the new 'camp' code, I thought of something cool that could be something similar. So classes that get 'advanced' climb are a bit rough, the chance that you fall to your death is pretty high in my experience even with climbing gear, so I suggest a new command 'secure' or 'piton'. The idea is that either mid climb, at the edge of a climb, or at the bottom of a climb, you can use this command to 'secure' rope to the wall. This could use up rope in your inventory or something like that, which would also make climbing rope a consumable resource which is always good.

The idea is that once the room is 'secured' with pitons/rope, if you 'slip', you no longer fall, but maybe you still take damage and have a delay to pull yourself back to the wall. This might seem incredibly overpowered, but I was thinking that it would have a long delay for you setting up, hammering in the pitons, and tying the rope, so it would be significantly slower than just spam climbing like the spider stalkers and miscreants.

I also think it would be cool if this enabled people without climb to have a good chance to climb if set up by someone who has climb. This would mean you can bring along your friends to caves and stuff that don't have climb to have them join in! We all don't love being a class without climb only to be sent to a place like the spider caves where you're basically forced to fall on your ass.

What do people think? I would love this sort of thing because I love climbing and exploring, along with co-operative gameplay, but a lot of the time, the danger of falling for an unknown amount of rooms stops me from doing it.

[Foulspawn]

Agreed that this would make climbing a bit more tolerable for some at the expense of consumable resources (which rewards prepared adventurers). Also, being able to help non-climbers up would be amazing.

[Dresan]

I like the idea despite the fact that climbing is one of the few instances where a player might be willing to find the patience to deal with the frustrating limitation of traveling with a celf.  Though, if important enough, I suppose now you can always hire the services of a magicker from reputable sources I suppose.

I also really like the idea of making those with high enough climb skill useful to those without, though I would probably keep the ability to do so at around the master level of climb.

[Hindsight]

I like it. Not so much for the personal safety aspect, because master climb exists in class and subclass form, but I LOVE most things that allow us all to be more inclusive of others. Skills to bridge the gap.

[Kavrick]

I like it. Not so much for the personal safety aspect, because master climb exists in class and subclass form, but I LOVE most things that allow us all to be more inclusive of others. Skills to bridge the gap.

I think i'd be fine with limiting it to classes with master climb, would give classes like stalker a cool niche of helping other people climb.

[Kavrick]

I like it. Not so much for the personal safety aspect, because master climb exists in class and subclass form, but I LOVE most things that allow us all to be more inclusive of others. Skills to bridge the gap.

I think i'd be fine with limiting it to classes with master climb, would give classes like stalker a cool niche of helping other people climb.

Just going to add to this, while master  climbers should be able to help non-climbers, I still do think advanced climbers should still be able to secure themselves in particular. Characters should be rewarded for being prepared, like cures for poisons. Proper preparation should remove the gambling aspect for climbing.

Also climbing without using rope and pitons is kinda insane and illogical, 'free soloing' as it's called, is incredibly dangerous and borderline suicidal.

[Agent_137]

No to helping non climbers.  You can stick all the modern pinions and crap you want into a sheer cliff IRL, I'm still not going down it! And besides the realism aspect, there's also the game aspect. They picked classes without climb.  Giving them climb weakens all the classes that have it. Plus they can already use ropes for a slight bonus and just spam climb which works fine for a room or two.  Should they really be able to smoothly scale down the shield wall just because they have help?

Absolutely yes to setting up a fall-break so that with prep, skill, and consumables you can turn a slip from insta death into a painful set back.

[Kavrick]

Giving them climb weakens all the classes that have it. Plus they can already use ropes for a slight bonus and just spam climb which works fine for a room or two.  Should they really be able to smoothly scale down the shield wall just because they have help?

I guess I understand this, I was kinda going with the idea that you would need the master climber with you in order to do it, not be able to do it by yourself.

[talos]

I'd like to see ladder items that you can craft, that takes away the fall room status.
Hmmmm.

[FuSoYa]

I'd like to see ladder items that you can craft, that takes away the fall room status.
Hmmmm.

I've got one of these in my vehicle.  We could put them in a pack hah.

[dumbstruck]

I like it both for people with good climb and without. But I've always believed that everyone should get common skills (even if it's at novice only) so I think everyone should be able to sneak, hide, climb, cook, all that. You shouldn't have to build to get the skill at ALL, you should have to make choices to be GOOD at it.

[Markku]

If we had a ladder that would drastically reduce the fall chance (I don't like 0% chance, because people fall off ladders/stairs all the time IRL and die).

How to balance them? Make them so cumbersome you can build it there but not disassemble it, and it degrades over time? You can either leave it there or destroy it after you are done, so noone else benefits from it?

[Kavrick]

Ladders are cool but I'd consider them the more "urban" version of rope + pitons. The day I see someone bring a ladder to climb the span like it's lethal company is the day I'll eat my own hat.

Downside to ladders should be weight, and maybe noise? Can't sneak up a ladder. I'd see it similar to tents.

[Markku]

I was thinking of a "kit" like a tent that you could build "a bundle of poles and rope."
drop bundle
make bundle up
After some time you craft a serviceable ladder leading up.

I think (personal thoughts) most of the materials we could make pitons out of would either be too brittle to hammer between two stones without breaking, or at least have a chance of breaking when you hammer them into the cliff/wall. Give me a senario of how you think it would work IG?

[helix]

Give me a scenario of how you think it would work IG?

How about, instead of a 'kit', it's more similar to how Direction Sense works? i.e. you're less likely to lose your way if you're following someone who has it (the old ranger guild, for example).

A simpler solution might be:

A climbing harness - waist wearable item for the 'lead' climber that allows others following them to get a boost to a skill check
A climbing rope - a held item (already in-game) for all the 'follow' climbers

All the follow climbers just follow the lead climber.

It doesn't change the room into a no_fall room, and gives an interesting niche to those classes/subclasses that get the best climb skills.

[Kavrick]

I think (personal thoughts) most of the materials we could make pitons out of would either be too brittle to hammer between two stones without breaking, or at least have a chance of breaking when you hammer them into the cliff/wall. Give me a senario of how you think it would work IG?

So I do think there should be a level of suspension of disbelief when it comes to the strength of bones, after all, massive structures like argosies are made from bone and the like. Also megafauna would specifically have much denser bone just to handle it's own weight, so you could also limit it to bones from bigger creatures, (for example, make it so you can break the inix ribcage up into ribs and use those).

Also, pitons are generally put into cracks and gashes in stone, rather than hammered straight into the stone, so they probably don't need to be that strong?

[Markku]

Realism stuff: Yeah, I've got you on the suspension of belief  It's not that bone is "soft" it's that it is brittle. When you hammer a wedge into something something has to "give" a bone nail into wood, the wood pushes aside. Bone is hard and brittle, stone is hard and brittle. Both break before they give. When you hammer a metal piton between two stones (as I said earlier, not into the stone) The stone may or may not crack a little and the metal compresses ever so slightly. Wood would be much better than bone, in this case, I think or some laminate combination.

I was more asking how do you see your idea functioning IG? Like the example Helix gave.

[Kavrick]

I was more asking how do you see your idea functioning IG? Like the example Helix gave.

I think the way you mentioned it was along my lines of thought. Probably easier to make it a 'kit' rather than individual parts. I think dropping it might be a bit of an issue if you want to set up half-way up a climb. The most dangerous climbs in Armageddon tend to be multiple rooms, which is where you would want to use safety tools.

I think ideally, I'd want you be able to target a direction. The reason why I say this is because some climb rooms are adjacent, especially when you're at the top of a cliff. Usually you have to be in a normal room and then move horizontally into a climb room. So you'd do like, 'use kit n/e/s/w/u/d' and then you'd begin to set up the ropes to secure the climb room. Although I don't know how hard this would be to code.