GMH Feedback

[Valkyrja]

As has been stated in other places: It's good to remember that most clans will be fundamentally different to account for the time lapse, tuning the clans to what (we think, with your input) works better, and the amount of work necessary to revamp them.

What we don't want to do is just "open the Salarri Expansion Division" and then not be able to support it meaningfully.

[Lizzie]

Oh! If thats the case, I get it. It just seemed out of the way to suddenly say they shouldn't allow apps in when there wasn't a context.

I didn't play Outriders, but if the other 2 (... three if you count Nenyuk, which I don't) GMHs get soldier-type ranks, Kurac should have one. Even if the last King's Age changes how the Outriders are seen, etc.

I think it was my second character in the game who was murdered by her Outrider boyfriend per orders of their boss, Sargax, I believe. She was a House Assassin in Special Ops (though she'd never actually assassinated anyone).  Fast forward a couple of years and I played a Kurac Sergeant who aspired to become an Outrider. She was murdered by the merry band of Salarr Expansion Division marauders and their dwarven pals.

So yeah - me and the Outriders and Expansion Division got some history It was some of the funnest times of my experience in this game.

[CirclelessBard]

I think the question I would ask when considering the place of PCs in GMHs is: what should their place have been in the setting, and what would their place be after Magefall and the fall of Houses Kasix and Valika?

GMHs hold power in society through their immense wealth earned over the course of a thousand years of hoarding rare resources and the knowledge of special crafting techniques. They are commoners who provide so much wealth to the states of Zalanthas that they are afforded the ability to read and write (albeit, only in cavilish) and occasionally rise to the rank of templarate in Allanak. In my view, they're comparable to the merchant families of Venice or megacorporations in cyberpunk settings. They live and die with their wealth.

Without their wealth, the GMHs would effectively have nothing to offer to the powers-that-be, and crumble. They just witnessed one of their biggest allies in Allanak, House Valika, be butchered to the last member, its wealth transferred to other entities. They've also witnessed coordinated outside challenges to the will of the state as in Magefall. Effectively, GMHs have just witnessed what could happen to them when the state - or an outside entity - decides that the "cons" of allowing them to continue to exist outweigh the "pros".

By extension, I think GMH roles would be focused on maintaining wealth for their house. I do not think that GMHs really care about one individual sale of a 1000-coin weapon or suit of armor, as that amounts to pocket change in terms of profits, and by extension PCs should not be involved in the humdrum day-to-day tasks for that reason alone. To give GMH PCs agency, you have to give them access to the tasks that serve their GMH in big-picture ways.

Large-scale contracts to equip militaries would be more in the purview of a GMH PC than selling Amos an "amazing" longspear or a commissioned custom craft. Similarly, GMH PCs should be engaged in the acquisition and hoarding of new resources. When multiple GMHs discover the same resource, they should have the diplomatic and military power necessary to engage in cooperation and/or conflict over those resources. I think this could be managed while keeping GMH organizations very small PC-wise, but a GMH-focused season where everyone is in a GMH family or associated with one could be particularly fun with the right setup.

To give one concrete suggestion that I don't believe has been mentioned yet, I would say that if GMHs won't encroach on each other's markets, they should still definitely compete with each other over resources and talent. There would be a lot for GMHs to do if a source of metal was uncovered in a new area of the Known World. There would also be a lot for GMHs to do if non-family talent such as crafters, hunters and soldiers were actually regarded as titans in their field, and it was acceptable for them to go from House to House through accepting more and more lucrative contracts. Make talent-poaching a routine thing rather than an affront to the House an employee is leaving, and take a big leap in what resources are plopped down in distant lands and I think you could really get things going.

[Lotion]

Let us order our GMH items through the request tool and then when they are done load a "ticket" into our inventory to be exchanged at a GMH NPC. A little virtual ticket delivery NPC gave it to us.

[digitaleak]

Large-scale contracts to equip militaries would be more in the purview of a GMH PC than selling Amos an "amazing" longspear or a commissioned custom craft. Similarly, GMH PCs should be engaged in the acquisition and hoarding of new resources. When multiple GMHs discover the same resource, they should have the diplomatic and military power necessary to engage in cooperation and/or conflict over those resources. I think this could be managed while keeping GMH organizations very small PC-wise, but a GMH-focused season where everyone is in a GMH family or associated with one could be particularly fun with the right setup.

To give one concrete suggestion that I don't believe has been mentioned yet, I would say that if GMHs won't encroach on each other's markets, they should still definitely compete with each other over resources and talent. There would be a lot for GMHs to do if a source of metal was uncovered in a new area of the Known World. There would also be a lot for GMHs to do if non-family talent such as crafters, hunters and soldiers were actually regarded as titans in their field, and it was acceptable for them to go from House to House through accepting more and more lucrative contracts. Make talent-poaching a routine thing rather than an affront to the House an employee is leaving, and take a big leap in what resources are plopped down in distant lands and I think you could really get things going.

I love this.

[Dresan]

Large-scale contracts to equip militaries would be more in the purview of a GMH PC than selling Amos an "amazing" longspear or a commissioned custom craft. Similarly, GMH PCs should be engaged in the acquisition and hoarding of new resources. When multiple GMHs discover the same resource, they should have the diplomatic and military power necessary to engage in cooperation and/or conflict over those resources. I think this could be managed while keeping GMH organizations very small PC-wise, but a GMH-focused season where everyone is in a GMH family or associated with one could be particularly fun with the right setup.

I agree with this but to a certain point.

Specifically the longer I think about great merchant houses, the more jarring their existence really is to me with in this setting. There has been more changes and upheaval with noble houses then there has been with GMHs, to the point GMHs  ups and downs are almost trivial in comparison. In the past, this plot-armor was because the clans were fun unique experiences to play in but those days and the scenario their excelled in are now gone. That and of course the only way players could get the 'good shit' is through merchant houses, which again is a demerit to players crafters, player clans and a frustrating thing to play in its own right.

Setting wise, Kadius, Nenyuk and Salarr shouldn't be allowed to exist in the way they do. I do feel they are currently somewhat nobility-lite, and quite frankly, that is what they should have become a long time ago. Wealth and resources means absolutely shit in the face of power, and these great merchant houses really have no true power(eg, templars/psionic sorcerer kings).  Thus Tuluk and Allanak should have ripped those merchant houses apart in order to just serve their own interests, and either turned them into their own noble house serving just them or married them into minor noble houses to carry on the work they do. Their wealth is only as good as the people in power say its good.

The only house I could see existing is Kurac, not as a great merchant house but a shell of their former glory. Their desert gear business ripped apart by the city states as well, only their spice business remaining, mostly because its illegal in Allanak, and mostly fancied by the rich or poor in Tuluk, isn't consider an overly valuable asset. Kurac would go back to luirs, with the small remnants of salarr, nenyuk and kadius family weren't assimilated by the city states. The would still hire crafter, who would make unique high quality gear but no longer competing with anyone unless someone is trying to muscle into their  spice trade. They would also assist with the 'smuggling' of RAW resources between the south and north, who should be having a cold war with each other not wanting to trade or share. Finally Tuluk should create its own currency, no longer accepting Allanak coins, with Luirs being the only place you could convert it back and forth (for a price) or use either currencies, making it unique and important in the world.   

Player based merchant clans would take on the role of gear dispensers, and these clans would rise and fall all the time. Again player crafting should be more valuable then it current is, and player merchant clans should have the option of crafter 'high' quality stuff(as far as populace is concerned).

Maybe not for this season but really the current state of merchant houses is way too stale and needs to probably see a major shift. At the very least, for this season we should lets get rid of them being gear vending machines to the players, and then rest will probably take care of itself over time.

[Halaster]

As has been stated in other places: It's good to remember that most clans will be fundamentally different

I think @Valkyrja meant well with this, but the phrase "fundamentally different" is a bit strong.  It can imply core mechanics or beliefs or functionality will be dramatically changed.  That just isn't the case with most clans. 

There are some big changes for some clans, for sure.  But I want to make sure people have the proper expectations.  Salarr is still a GMH selling weapons and armor, the T'Zai Byn is still a mercenary group.  Most clans are not seeing fundamental changes, just tweaks.  Only a few are seeing larger changes (like Fale).

[Dresan]

There are some big changes for some clans, for sure.  But I want to make sure people have the proper expectations.  Salarr is still a GMH selling weapons and armor, the T'Zai Byn is still a mercenary group.  Most clans are not seeing fundamental changes, just tweaks.  Only a few are seeing larger changes (like Fale).

To be fair, I have very few expectations, somehow I have a feeling most of us are in that same boat. I was happily surprised a road was constructed for example, making the GMHs clans seem a lot more pleasing to the eye.

But since there was an asked, I think you got some honest replies and ideas. 

That said, I think that some of these ideas, once expressed, have ways of popping up again and again, especially if there any real or perceived issues in the system that are in place today.