Nobles: Let Them Play

[LindseyBalboa]

Suggestion: let players app in to nobles at any point if they want to play a noble. Mundane only.

A noble is literally just there to make things happen for other players. If someone wants to put their time into a PC that doesn't really have anything if it isn't generating plots for other people, why not let them?

The idea immediately self-regulates. An active noble will get more PCs around to play in their area and do things with them, creating more play in that area. An inactive noble will just... exist and not do much, without the ability to really mess anything up for most people.

Lastly, I think it would do a lot to get players back into cities who feel, as players, that they need some kind of leverage against templars. This could be because something happened 15 years ago or because they logged into Discord during a three player complaint session and that's the opinion they've been left with; that doesn't really matter. Giving players the chance to dive (potentially back) into an important, needed area of play far outweighs anything else I can think of with this point.

Staff requirements: Potentially a streamlined noble set-up process. Support for PC-generated plots.

[Riev]

I like the spirit but I disagree with free-app.

We have had some WONDERFUL roleplayers (the one in my mind doesn't play anymore) who have been given GMH leaders, nobles, or Templars WELL before they were ready simply because there was an opening and staff liked their roleplay.

Not everyone is ready for a noble. Not everyone understands a House's place in the city, nor their place in a House, nor does every staff seem to be ready for the inundation of ideas from players that they "don't care enough about to support".

[dumbstruck]

I like the spirit but I disagree with free-app.

We have had some WONDERFUL roleplayers (the one in my mind doesn't play anymore) who have been given GMH leaders, nobles, or Templars WELL before they were ready simply because there was an opening and staff liked their roleplay.

Not everyone is ready for a noble. Not everyone understands a House's place in the city, nor their place in a House, nor does every staff seem to be ready for the inundation of ideas from players that they "don't care enough about to support".

For the reason you gave above I support it, actually. Both of the reasons. One, you've literally just said that staff judgement has been off in the past with people getting the roles just because staff liked their role play (which means, conversely, there are people who are well set to kick ass in the role who never get the chance just because staff doesn't like their RP enough to give them the chance, even when they're ready for it). And two, if only some players are even cared enough about staff to "get" their support, then the player should have the chance to know up front, or maybe you just give support for what your are supposed to be supporting, same as when you staff desert elves and people app into those whether you like the player or not. That seems like a shitty and shallow excuse.

[Riev]

I still disagree, but I wholly support your decision to BE TOTALLY AND ENTIRELY WRONG AND YOUR OPINION IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD.

Ah. I mean. I support your ideas even if mine are different.

.... The keys are like right next to one another.

[DesertT]

I feel like nobles should be allowed to role again if they've been off'd.

A close cousin or something that makes sense to being NEARLY as knowledgeable as their previous PC.

I think this would maybe help reduce the OOC desires to PK such roles.

Since there is no karma timer anymore, why not allow this?

I still feel that nobles should still be vetted.  Having deep pockets can be a significant asset.

[Pariah]

If you want to play a noble do a role application with a good scheme in mind. Worst they can say is "no your concept sucks."

[Yelinak]

Last year, I had a really neat idea for an Allanaki noble role that I felt I could bring to the table in a manner that would be interesting for other players. When I inquired with staff, I was told that since there was no open role call for a noble, it was not an option at all.

At that point in time, there were, to my knowledge, not one single noble character who made regular appearances in public or had any interaction with the wider playerbase. I had not laid eyes upon a noble for like two months, nor heard the name of one. This continued to be the case for another two months afterwards. Nobles were effectively not a thing in Allanak, from my perspective, during this quarter of the year. Never saw one, never heard of one, and for all intents and purposes, they may as well not have existed. But I couldn't play one because there didn't happen to be an open role call for a noble at that particular time.

I then applied to play a noble's bastard in an adjunct-type position, as I felt that I could accomplish what I had in mind from such a position as well. It was also denied. The best I could get was permission to play an unacknowledged bastard of no more station than any freshly-made character of no note, claiming to be the unproven bastard of some lord (and not a PC one, that wasn't permitted). Needless to say, that had no appeal.

And for the longest time after that, I never heard any noble's name mentioned. Never saw one, never heard of anything one did, never noticed that they existed. There must have been some, as the roles were apparently occupied, but you wouldn't know it if not for that out-of-game knowledge. It really left me wondering why the hell I wasn't allowed to try it. If the ones who were already there had so little impact that one could play in Allanak at the time and never hear of their existence, was the city really full up on nobles?

At the same time, if they did have a noble in every house and they all failed to seem as though they existed at all, maybe there was an argument for not letting even more people play nobles. That was the answer that I chose to interpret and from which I shrugged off the inclination. Instead, I played yet another wandering mercenary until I quit the game. The plans I had in mind for my potential noble character were unfulfilled and forgotten.

All this to say that nobles need to shit or get off the pot. If you have a noble character and someone else can play a Guild member for two months without ever realizing you exist, you probably haven't put in much of an effort. That is, unless your efforts are deliberately clandestine and the shockwaves of them can be felt throughout the city even if your name isn't overtly attached to them; but I can't say I saw any signs of that, either.

It should be required for any noble character application to come with a concise plan for what they want to do, and it should be ambitious enough to be something that others will care about. It should be something that the common player is likely to hear about, and at least know someone who was affected by it. If the sum total of a noble's contribution after a year of play was to arrange the catering for the annual Tektolnes festival, the game would have been better off with that player in a more useful role.

[Inks]

I feel like nobles should be allowed to role again if they've been off'd.

A close cousin or something that makes sense to being NEARLY as knowledgeable as their previous PC.

I think this would maybe help reduce the OOC desires to PK such roles.

Since there is no karma timer anymore, why not allow this?

I still feel that nobles should still be vetted.  Having deep pockets can be a significant asset.

This is bad. PKs should be meaningful, you might as well play Haven or some other joke of an RPI if we allow this.

Would just cause a bunch of rerolling cliques to happen. Zzz.

Being able to directly avenge your own death with your ooc knowledge of seeing your assassin...I guess suggestions like this really dissapoint me.


Back on topic, make nobles crimcode immune. Thanks.

[Kestria]

Last year, I had a really neat idea for an Allanaki noble role that I felt I could bring to the table in a manner that would be interesting for other players. When I inquired with staff, I was told that since there was no open role call for a noble, it was not an option at all.

At that point in time, there were, to my knowledge, not one single noble character who made regular appearances in public or had any interaction with the wider playerbase. I had not laid eyes upon a noble for like two months, nor heard the name of one. This continued to be the case for another two months afterwards. Nobles were effectively not a thing in Allanak, from my perspective, during this quarter of the year. Never saw one, never heard of one, and for all intents and purposes, they may as well not have existed. But I couldn't play one because there didn't happen to be an open role call for a noble at that particular time.

I then applied to play a noble's bastard in an adjunct-type position, as I felt that I could accomplish what I had in mind from such a position as well. It was also denied. The best I could get was permission to play an unacknowledged bastard of no more station than any freshly-made character of no note, claiming to be the unproven bastard of some lord (and not a PC one, that wasn't permitted). Needless to say, that had no appeal.

And for the longest time after that, I never heard any noble's name mentioned. Never saw one, never heard of anything one did, never noticed that they existed. There must have been some, as the roles were apparently occupied, but you wouldn't know it if not for that out-of-game knowledge. It really left me wondering why the hell I wasn't allowed to try it. If the ones who were already there had so little impact that one could play in Allanak at the time and never hear of their existence, was the city really full up on nobles?

At the same time, if they did have a noble in every house and they all failed to seem as though they existed at all, maybe there was an argument for not letting even more people play nobles. That was the answer that I chose to interpret and from which I shrugged off the inclination. Instead, I played yet another wandering mercenary until I quit the game. The plans I had in mind for my potential noble character were unfulfilled and forgotten.

All this to say that nobles need to shit or get off the pot. If you have a noble character and someone else can play a Guild member for two months without ever realizing you exist, you probably haven't put in much of an effort. That is, unless your efforts are deliberately clandestine and the shockwaves of them can be felt throughout the city even if your name isn't overtly attached to them; but I can't say I saw any signs of that, either.

It should be required for any noble character application to come with a concise plan for what they want to do, and it should be ambitious enough to be something that others will care about. It should be something that the common player is likely to hear about, and at least know someone who was affected by it. If the sum total of a noble's contribution after a year of play was to arrange the catering for the annual Tektolnes festival, the game would have been better off with that player in a more useful role.

I would like to point out, that, perhaps the roles were filled by people that do not play at the same time as you do?

-I- occupied one of the slots in Allanak, all of last year, and I can assure you I was online for 8+ hours a day my time, which is offpeak leading to peak, constantly in taverns and roaming around doing things and engaging with the populace, including holding events, festivals and the like.  There were also constant messages on the rumor boards in regards to what was upcoming, or things I had running.  So perhaps looking to the rumor boards in game more often as well?

[Kestria]

As a side note, I think the main problem that there is with noble houses currently, is that they are only allowed 1-2 servants with them.  Which makes the clan very small, and so, there isn't a lot of them around to associate with like there are the Byn/Militia/GMH's, to see that they ARE actually around as a clan.

[betweenford]

As a side note, I think the main problem that there is with noble houses currently, is that they are only allowed 1-2 servants with them.  Which makes the clan very small, and so, there isn't a lot of them around to associate with like there are the Byn/Militia/GMH's, to see that they ARE actually around as a clan.

the sad reality of this is a staff member will read something like "you are only allowed one aide until x rank" and use that as a basis for all of your general servants instead of seeing that an aide is a high ranking servant

[Riev]

It is difficult to also find an aidely-type for your Leadership Role that both shares some of your playtimes, but also extends into others to expand your influence.

Often times, you find someone with almost your exact playtimes which, while fun for you and them, means you only have that small timeframe in which to influence the world.

For what its worth, I remember Kestria's noble and they were around relatively often.

[Classclown]

Maybe a different sort of noble rank? Like a junior noble? Minor noble? Less authority, no access to the House bank account, but access to the House's properties, a respectable bi-monthly stipend, all the minor perks for being a noble, ie smoking spice and being bowed to, and some authority for sponsoring events and organizing expeditions or whatever and they can work with, or against, the senior Noble, with the chance for advancement to senior Noble in time. It would sort of be like an audition for the full Noble role. If staff feels that player has shown their ability to rp the role well, then they can be "promoted". Sort of like Merchant trainee to Merchant or Merchant to Agent in GMH. Don't get hung up on the titles, they can be changed.

ETA: There could and probably should be a maximum for each House, but it could work like DEs, where you put in a request to see if there's a spot open. Maybe the same Karma requirements too.

[Riev]

Maybe a different sort of noble rank? Like a junior noble? Minor noble? Less authority, no access to the House bank account, but access to the House's properties, a respectable bi-monthly stipend, all the minor perks for being a noble, ie smoking spice and being bowed to, and some authority for sponsoring events and organizing expeditions or whatever and they can work with, or against, the senior Noble, with the chance for advancement to senior Noble in time. It would sort of be like an audition for the full Noble role. If staff feels that player has shown their ability to rp the role well, then they can be "promoted". Sort of like Merchant trainee to Merchant or Merchant to Agent in GMH. Don't get hung up on the titles, they can be changed.

ETA: There could and probably should be a maximum for each House, but it could work like DEs, where you put in a request to see if there's a spot open. Maybe the same Karma requirements too.

Current nobles in game ARE Junior Nobles. They get a stipend. They have House Access. They sponsor events. What you're describing is exactly what nobles have, right now. They can even be 'promoted' hence why you see these weird lateral promotions and titles.

[Classclown]

This would be below them. Junior Junior Noble. There are merchant trainees, merchants, agents, etc... in the GMH. Why can't there be a noble trainee type rank within the Noble Houses?

Think of a minor Borsail Noble whose only duties are running the Arena, procuring animals and organizing events or a minor Tor who runs the Academy. If you only have to focus on one aspect, it would probably keep down the burnout rate, especially if you enjoy it, and open up a ton of rp opportunities.

[Riev]

What I'm saying is that all the responsibilities you described are already the responsibilities of the players currently in the role. It doesn't get more Junior than Junior for nobility.

The idea of being "Lord Slavemaster Classclown" is just something you can already do, through play. If you want to be "Lady Planner (of events)" you can do that.

The suggestion isn't bad, it just already exists. It can already be done. You also cannot be below a Junior Noble. When you're allowed in public, you're a Junior.

[Classclown]

You're acting like everything is set in stone. It doesn't have to be. Ranks can be added, duties divided. That or just make the nobles available from chargen like DE, if you have the Karma and the House has vacancies, you can app in.

[dumbstruck]

You're acting like everything is set in stone. It doesn't have to be. Ranks can be added, duties divided. That or just make the nobles available from chargen like DE, if you have the Karma and the House has vacancies, you can app in.

Been saying it for months and yes please.

[Lotion]

I don't want to see them. The more they stay in their noble estates the happier I am. If a noble talks to me I will walk away because I know that I am happier if I do not interact with them. Double for Templars.

[Fredd]

You're acting like everything is set in stone. It doesn't have to be. Ranks can be added, duties divided. That or just make the nobles available from chargen like DE, if you have the Karma and the House has vacancies, you can app in.

Been saying it for months and yes please.

When there's slots, they post them. So this wouldn't really do anything except cut down on staff paperwork (which could be a good thing).

But that noble will still need to be set up by staff. There's a bit of onboarding to playing a Noble.

Personally, i like the rolecalls for them. It makes them feel special, because they are. And EVERYONE has an equal chance, if we all know about the openings, as we can app while playing our current. If we don't get it, we just keep playing. Under the proposed system, I'de have to kill/store my guy and HOPE someone else ddn't put in for one before me, or even worse, wait in limbo with no character, only to be told the slot went to the other person.

[Kestria]

This would be below them. Junior Junior Noble. There are merchant trainees, merchants, agents, etc... in the GMH. Why can't there be a noble trainee type rank within the Noble Houses?

Think of a minor Borsail Noble whose only duties are running the Arena, procuring animals and organizing events or a minor Tor who runs the Academy. If you only have to focus on one aspect, it would probably keep down the burnout rate, especially if you enjoy it, and open up a ton of rp opportunities.

Tor Academy would need a full fledged actual Tor born noble to run it, because it is a hell of a lot of responsibilty to train an elite unit up to par, someone untrusted and not even a full noble wouldn't be able to do it because they would lack the House trust.

The same can be said of Borsail and the arena games/breeding/training/capturing new creatures.

Juniors are untrusted in a lot of ways and have to report everything and tell their family everything before doing anything, they are already unproven family members.

A rank below is basically a bastard doing the same thing.

[Trevalyan]

Juniors are untrusted in a lot of ways and have to report everything and tell their family everything before doing anything, they are already unproven family members.

I always thought nobles in general really should be reporting everything up the line, even and especially when they have power to shape the House.

[titansfan]

Nobles need people in the cities to be enjoyable for me.  Last time I played one the city was absolutely dead and there was more going on outside that I didn't have easy access to. Adding more nobles doesn't help with the needing minions part.

[Fredd]

Adding more nobles doesn't help with the needing minions part.

100% this.

[LindseyBalboa]

Nobles need people in the cities to be enjoyable for me.  Last time I played one the city was absolutely dead and there was more going on outside that I didn't have easy access to. Adding more nobles doesn't help with the needing minions part.

Without nobles and people making plots in the city won't every potential minion think "there's more going on outside?"

The plots have to be available first.