Shields vs Magick

[IntuitiveApathy]

So to not derail the other thread:

Do mundane shields give a chance to block incoming ranged magick?

I know they do give a chance to block incoming mundane missiles, and presumably still work the same in melee vs magicked PC's that have enchantments that give them strength/agility or are wielding magick melee weapons?

Shields were given a buff recently with the increase to skill cap, but I still don't see many people using them.  The tradeoff in damage vs other styles is really significant - should they have a chance to block a fireball (at least in part, like how they can work vs. kick), if they don't already?

[Riev]

I would not mind seeing shields getting a possibly to help block or absorb some of the damage from projectile magicks (if thats even a flag).

I'd rather the shield block some damage, and go down a level in quality. Block fireballs and lightning bolts and whatever else would be projectile bsed.

Not like some 80% chance to block or anything, but significantly better than the current arrow blocking.

[Pariah]

They don't, as a guy who almost always uses a shield due to the arrow blocking capabilities.

But I would see certain spells being blocked as possible, just staff needs to make it so.

[Lotion]

it really sucks that the setting implies that any form of antimagic effect is also magic

[najdorf]

They should. But from a conservative point, some classes then would require a good revamp, such as Krathis and Elkrans who thrive on non-location, physical combat spells.

[Inks]

Actually I am almost positive spells always hit a location codedly it is just they skip armor. Blocking ranged spells with the shield use skill for partial damage mitigation would make sense and be great.

The suggestions in general have mostly been pretty good lately. Kudos.

[Riev]

You want to nerf magick users without screwing over every single split? Hashtag Make Shields Great Again.


I mean. Even if the chance to block is low, or based on shield vs buckler vs hoplite etc... if projectile-based spells could hit the shield that might be a good way to fix it.

Sure, the spell to turn your private parts into sand isn't a "projectile" spell and wouldn't be affected, but a lot of these cries of "one shot spells" could be mitigated by "Well. Did you have a shield out, were you trained in its use, and did you see the spell coming?"

[eska]

If we make shields effective against projectile magick, I also suggest fireball to damage the armor not just blacken it. If we think about it in a realistic way, fireball should also ignite leather and cloths one wears, and incenerate the PC, unless they remove the gear on fire.

[Riev]

If we make shields effective against projectile magick, I also suggest fireball to damage the armor not just blacken it. If we think about it in a realistic way, fireball should also ignite leather and cloths one wears, and incenerate the PC, unless they remove the gear on fire.

I am definitely with this. Magick damage could do nearly the damage that hack can do to shields. I don't know about immolating people for having a piece of sandcloth, but I'm starting small. Fireballs. Lightning bolts. Fire Kanks. Whatever 'projectile' magick exists should have some shield interaction.

[Patuk]

Damn. That boost to shield use for being Tuluki might actually be a good thing if this were around

[Pariah]

https://youtu.be/Pld16loPTEM

Shield should work to protect against a fireball.

[LindseyBalboa]

I'm very much against anti-magick stuff being thrown in randomly. Anti-magick subguilds, etc. If you want to go use anti-magicks, then struggle with the ethical and moral challenge of having to weigh which monster is worse for you - a nilazi or the witch in question.

However, that being said, a shield blocking a fireball etc is a hugely ubiquitous DnD/RPG trope. 100% on board. It should probably be a very low chance, hurt the shield a LOT (you're probably only blocking a fireball or a lightning bolt once), and block maybe half the damage.

Running with that trope, though, I'd like to see a very small (maybe higher if a shield is destroyed after blocking magic) chance specific to one situation that is also a huge RPG trope: if someone has a shield and is guarding someone else, there should be a chance for them to block the entire magical attack against the person they're guarding. How many times has some random person jumped up with a shield to block a wizard/dragon/whatever's huge incinerating blast and protected an exposed party member?

[wizturbo]

Is this somehow broken?  Are people dying from fireballs and lightning bolts so often this is somehow a balance issue?

[BadSkeelz]

Mundanes feeling outclassed by Magickers is an underlying problem. I dunno if this is really a solution to it but I imagine that's the driving impetus.

[whengravityfails]

Mundanes feeling outclassed by Magickers is an underlying problem. I dunno if this is really a solution to it but I imagine that's the driving impetus.

Which is kind of weird since most of the recent PKs I can think of have been Magickers killing Magickers, be it Templars, Gemmed or rogues.

[BadSkeelz]

Which is kind of my whole point; mundanes might as well not be in the game since they're not competitive with the magical classes.

[wizturbo]

I don't like that magickers can equal or outclass mundanes at their own skills without restriction.  Would greatly prefer subguild mages to be spec app instead of the norm for that reason.  Full guild mages left a clear role for mundanes in the past, and it was cooler as a result.

I don't think shields would help...it would just make subguild mages even stronger because there's nothing stopping them from using it?

[BadSkeelz]

Make it so you need both hands empty to cast. It isn't a fix against magickal equipment or other "pre-raid buffs" but it's something.

[eska]

Mundanes feeling outclassed by Magickers is an underlying problem. I dunno if this is really a solution to it but I imagine that's the driving impetus.

If you mean mundane PC's, being outclassed by magickers should not be a problem at all. In Armageddon there has never been balance between classes.

Mundanes have no understanding of magick, so they are mostly scared of it. If a person is scared of something, they either want to avoid it at all or eliminate it for good. Most of my very strong mundane PCs tried to avoid confrontation with magickers.

Back to topic... The first sentence of Magick help file is as follows:

Magick is a mysterious and very rare power on Zalanthas, about which the general public knows very little, and generally fears and hates a great deal.

A shield blocking magick would probably be considered somehow related to magick. Your mundane PC, who is included in general public, wouldn't really trust such an item.

[eska]

Make it so you need both hands empty to cast. It isn't a fix against magickal equipment or other "pre-raid buffs" but it's something.

I feel that you got PK'ed by a magicker and want to give at least a disadvantage to them.

[BadSkeelz]

Mundanes have no understanding of magick, so they are mostly scared of it. If a person is scared of something, they either want to avoid it at all or eliminate it for good. Most of my very strong mundane PCs tried to avoid confrontation with magickers.

As do mine, but code, gameplay and lore that encourages avoidance and non-interaction makes for a pretty boring game. And Armageddon is nothing more than a hack-and-slash free for all with a sex game bolted on.

Make it so you need both hands empty to cast. It isn't a fix against magickal equipment or other "pre-raid buffs" but it's something.

I feel that you got PK'ed by a magicker and want to give at least a disadvantage to them.

Ironically I've never been killed by magick. I just hate them thematically; in a game of Cowboys and Indians they're always someone trying to play an Astronaut.

[Pariah]

Mundanes feeling outclassed by Magickers is an underlying problem. I dunno if this is really a solution to it but I imagine that's the driving impetus.

Mundanes are supposed to be outclassed by magick users.

Magick > mundane.

Why do people think it's supposed to be a fair fight, they throw fireballs and you have a sharpened bone in your hand.  They win unless you get lucky or have superior numbers.

Welcome to the way it works, people with power use it to beat down those without it.

[BadSkeelz]

Found the perennial Gicker player.

There's a reason Elementalists haven't taken over the world: it's because they're rare and not all that strong in the face of overwhelming numbers of mundanes and the sorcerous powers of the Templarate. The game world is not matching the docs because 80% of people are playing Power Rangers because they're the most effective class at doing anything combat oriented.

[whengravityfails]

I don't like that magickers can equal or outclass mundanes at their own skills without restriction.  Would greatly prefer subguild mages to be spec app instead of the norm for that reason.  Full guild mages left a clear role for mundanes in the past, and it was cooler as a result.

I don't think shields would help...it would just make subguild mages even stronger because there's nothing stopping them from using it?

I really dislike that solution a lot - especially because I assume it would cause even more mages to hide away and practice cast until they were rather powerful so they don't feel as much risk in losing their special app. I'd rather see mundanes get a skill boost to incentivize playing them or a higher top end cap on said skills - or both. 

[Pariah]

Found the perennial Gicker player.

There's a reason Elementalists haven't taken over the world: it's because they're rare and not all that strong in the face of overwhelming numbers of mundanes and the sorcerous powers of the Templarate. The game world is not matching the docs because 80% of people are playing Power Rangers because they're the most effective class at doing anything combat oriented.

I'm actually a full mundane.

But I do agree with the docs versus reality being skewed but that's a different argument all together.

You shouldn't be seeking ways to make mundanes competitive against magick wielding witches.  That's like trying to train a five year old to beat up a grown man.