Idea: Increase cast times for STRONG spells

[BadSkeelz]

My original idea was a 1% chance of death on any spell at all.

[dumbstruck]

My original idea was a 1% chance of death on any spell at all.

Cool. That's... /totally functional/ and not going to /make wide swathes of people/ literally unable to justifiably access any of good portions of their character sheet in Allanak, their camps, etc etc, etc, as a knock on effect, if the world was to actual be realistic as a respond to that. And I'm sure that wouldn't lead to /any/ unhappiness. I'm sure it'd be great for people who want to play peasant simulator 27386 or hunterMud 248792. Cool.  I thought the idea was to get people into cities, not literally (in your estimate) "a cool half" of the people in them outside Tuluk or more, to leave them to function.

[Riev]

Difficult for the sake of difficulty, not for the sake of having fun playing a game.

The world should be very harsh and, as players, our responsibility is to play with that harshness.

Playing the game should not be harsh.

[Pariah]

Instead of increasing casting time of whatever, just give every spell a 1% chance of just killing its user (and maybe everybody else in the room) when cast at a sufficiently high level.

Now you're just trolling.

I was defending you on discord with someone saying you were being too mean, and then you post something like this?  Come on man.

[BadSkeelz]

It's riskier levelling up riding than it is levelling up casting. Inject some danger and drama into the process and you might see people treating mages as they should.

I will say that I think tribal mages should be immune to it. They have the social structure and Ages of cultural practice go justify them being able to safely harness magick for the good of their people, and are less likely to fall into a kaleidescopic death ball of all elemental power rangers than your random Rogues are.

[dumbstruck]

It's riskier levelling up riding than it is levelling up casting. Inject some danger and drama into the process and you might see people treating mages as they should.

I will say that I think tribal mages should be immune to it. They have the social structure and Ages of cultural practice go justify them being able to safely harness magick for the good of their people, and are less likely to fall into a kaleidescopic death ball of all elemental power rangers than your random Rogues are.

The same thing you're trying to force on other people with this idea though wouldn't just, to use your parlance, prevent "random rogues" to "fall into a kaleidoscopic death ball of all elemental power rangers", it would also devastate anything like anyone considering playing a gemmed. Can you imagine what Allanak's stance would be on casting at all in the city, when that is the risk, and then you literally are asking people to put targets on their neck but walk outside of the city where people are playing target practice to try and "learn" or "use" any of their magick. Leaving alone bye bye any chance of any mage ever being employable (for why, that risk?) which, sure, but this also includes in use by the Templarate during stuff like going up against a sorcerer in the sands for example. Why would they ever? Like, literally what do you think this actually adds to the game other than making it scary to PLAY a magicker? Not so much to be around them, because why would they do a thing that might kill them? That literally just makes all magick pointless as far as I can tell. Unless, should your warrior's sword have a chance of killing him every time he swings it? Not like, letting him die to a fight, but actively kill him? Why or why not? What makes this different?

[BadSkeelz]

Gem captures the explosion and prevents Total Room Wipe. Gemmed just have to deal with a d100 every time they cast a big spell, templars still get their living weapons. Fixed.

Unless, should your warrior's sword have a chance of killing him every time he swings it? Not like, letting him die to a fight, but actively kill him? Why or why not? What makes this different?

Leveling weapons has some inherent risk and incentive to interact with others. Magick does not.

[dumbstruck]

Gem captures the explosion and prevents Total Room Wipe. Gemmed just have to deal with a d100 every time they cast a big spell, templars still get their living weapons. Fixed.

Unless, should your warrior's sword have a chance of killing him every time he swings it? Not like, letting him die to a fight, but actively kill him? Why or why not? What makes this different?

Leveling weapons has some inherent risk and incentive to interact with others. Magick does not.

And so making it kill anyone else in the room by dice roll automatically, THAT is the thing that is supposed to make magick something that will be incentive to INTERACT with others, rather than AVOID THEM LIKE THE PLAGUE?

Alright, sure, let's imagine that that is sincerely what you think. I don't understand the logic of this. Could you explain how this in any way does that?

You want magick riskier to level up, get rid of nil reach and suddenly (at least offensive spells) will require the same risk as live combat to level them up, due to requiring a living target.

[BadSkeelz]

 

And so making it kill anyone else in the room by dice roll automatically, THAT is the thing that is supposed to make magick something that will be incentive to INTERACT with others, rather than AVOID THEM LIKE THE PLAGUE?

Yeah, sounds good. Mage magick scary, make it risky to have and to be around. Make it so it's only safe to use for those bound by docs to restrict behavior to a more thematic representation.

You want magick riskier to level up, get rid of nil reach and suddenly (at least offensive spells) will require the same risk as live combat to level them up, due to requiring a living target.

Yeah I proposed that back in 2016 and it never went anywhere.

[dumbstruck]

Okay, you say you want

incentive to interact with others

And lament that,

Leveling weapons has... incentive to interact with others. Magick does not.

I still don't see how your idea to give a chance to kill the user, OR everyone in the room is anything like

incentive to interact with others. Magick does not.

Could you explain how it does anything other than:

Make magick scary, make it risky to have and to be around.

And again, if that's your aim, fine, can you please not pretend like you are in any way encouraging incentive to interact with this? Because that reads as incredibly disingenuous, when you double down on saying that you really want this to make it scary and risky to be or have around, not to, in fact, as you claimed, be, 'incentive to interact' that 'weapons training currently has' that 'magick does not'?

Edit to add 'to interact' in last paragraph on proofreading belatedly.

[Krath]

With the adjustment to swing speeds, Subguild mages are now OP. The delay between casting three spells is less than that of getting two rounds of swings in. I think a nice middle ground would be to have being hit cause you to lose concentration, similar to how kick works.

[ShaiHulud]

I do not particularly like any of the suggestions done here. I'd rather talk about spam mounted charge, or other warrior badass lags and timers. Having played both, I don't see a issue. I would leave well enough alone.

[Patuk]

With the adjustment to swing speeds, Subguild mages are now OP. The delay between casting three spells is less than that of getting two rounds of swings in. I think a nice middle ground would be to have being hit cause you to lose concentration, similar to how kick works.

This is a really good point. Swing speeds are now pretty damn slow. Skills like bash, trample, and disarm have delays. Magick barely does - and it genuinely should.

[JohnMichaelHenry]

With the adjustment to swing speeds, Subguild mages are now OP. The delay between casting three spells is less than that of getting two rounds of swings in. I think a nice middle ground would be to have being hit cause you to lose concentration, similar to how kick works.

This is a really good point. Swing speeds are now pretty damn slow. Skills like bash, trample, and disarm have delays. Magick barely does - and it genuinely should.

How about reducing the delay for the skills, rather than increase the magick delay. I'm for easier, not more difficult gameplay. And I enjoy solutions that are positive.

[Krath]

I am with you on that JMH. The Issue I see is that if you Kick me while I am casting, you will have an 8-10s delay before you can do another kick and the Caster cant just cast a spell again right after.

The reason delays were put in for skills like bash/Kick/disarm/etc was to prevent people from Spamming it non-stop, same as with the kill command.

I believe reducing the delay for the mundane skills, and adding that same delay post sucessfully/Interuppted/failed spell, would be a fair compromise.

[Quelan]

While I like the idea of magic codedly being scary for both the user and anyone around them, none of the suggestions I've seen here are all that attractive to me on that front and I think it would probably require like an actual rework of all the magic guilds. Which is kind of a wild thing to expect anyone to commit to, so...

[dumbstruck]

I am with you on that JMH. The Issue I see is that if you Kick me while I am casting, you will have an 8-10s delay before you can do another kick and the Caster cant just cast a spell again right after.

The reason delays were put in for skills like bash/Kick/disarm/etc was to prevent people from Spamming it non-stop, same as with the kill command.

I believe reducing the delay for the mundane skills, and adding that same delay post sucessfully/Interuppted/failed spell, would be a fair compromise.

This seems like the most reasonable compromise I've found, though I would like to suggest that the delays only activate like that when/if the 'you're too excited to quit' timer is going, because then feasibly it could not impact all magick everywhere at all times including every bit of magick that's not remotely related to combat, and if the proposal is about a combat related fix, then affecting everything outside of combat (99.99% of spells any pcs of mine have EVER CAST) shouldn't be subject to being readjusted like they were all for combat.

[Krath]

Solid Catch there DS. I like it.

[Patuk]

With the adjustment to swing speeds, Subguild mages are now OP. The delay between casting three spells is less than that of getting two rounds of swings in. I think a nice middle ground would be to have being hit cause you to lose concentration, similar to how kick works.

This is a really good point. Swing speeds are now pretty damn slow. Skills like bash, trample, and disarm have delays. Magick barely does - and it genuinely should.

How about reducing the delay for the skills, rather than increase the magick delay. I'm for easier, not more difficult gameplay. And I enjoy solutions that are positive.

Those delays going down won't make combat any easier, it just means the guy disarming you does it once every two seconds (mage cast speeds) rather than once every ten.

[Case]

With the adjustment to swing speeds, Subguild mages are now OP. The delay between casting three spells is less than that of getting two rounds of swings in. I think a nice middle ground would be to have being hit cause you to lose concentration, similar to how kick works.

This is a really good point. Swing speeds are now pretty damn slow. Skills like bash, trample, and disarm have delays. Magick barely does - and it genuinely should.

How about reducing the delay for the skills, rather than increase the magick delay. I'm for easier, not more difficult gameplay. And I enjoy solutions that are positive.

Those delays going down won't make combat any easier, it just means the guy disarming you does it once every two seconds (mage cast speeds) rather than once every ten.

I'd probably quit playing altogether at that point. Combat's bad enough if you're not Heavy Combat, which is already dominant. Combat manoeuvres have no real defence you can develop IG.

[Patuk]

With the adjustment to swing speeds, Subguild mages are now OP. The delay between casting three spells is less than that of getting two rounds of swings in. I think a nice middle ground would be to have being hit cause you to lose concentration, similar to how kick works.

This is a really good point. Swing speeds are now pretty damn slow. Skills like bash, trample, and disarm have delays. Magick barely does - and it genuinely should.

How about reducing the delay for the skills, rather than increase the magick delay. I'm for easier, not more difficult gameplay. And I enjoy solutions that are positive.

Those delays going down won't make combat any easier, it just means the guy disarming you does it once every two seconds (mage cast speeds) rather than once every ten.

I'd probably quit playing altogether at that point. Combat's bad enough if you're not Heavy Combat, which is already dominant. Combat manoeuvres have no real defence you can develop IG.

Yes.

So, let us bring chain-casting spells in combat in line with other maneuvers, and make sure the delay is there. Attacks of opportunity would be nice, too. You're telling me changing hands will provoke one, but fucking casting a spell won't?

[Case]

If they're in timing parity, kick and bash shouldn't interrupt or block casting, imo.

[Riev]

So, let us bring chain-casting spells in combat in line with other maneuvers, and make sure the delay is there. Attacks of opportunity would be nice, too. You're telling me changing hands will provoke one, but fucking casting a spell won't?

I agree with this one part:

Casting a spell mid-combat should provoke an attack like changing hands or attempting to flee. Combined with the chance to lose concentration on being hit. Magick in Arm SEEMS to follow the "Verbal, Somatic, Material" of DnD, and if there's a movement or somatic component to the spell, you should have to run concentration.

That way if its mid combat, and you're casting at me, I can AT LEAST attempt to kick to interrupt you rather than my only option being a mounted trample or a very risky bash.

[BadSkeelz]

If they're in timing parity, kick and bash shouldn't interrupt or block casting, imo.

Something has to.

[Case]

If they're in timing parity, kick and bash shouldn't interrupt or block casting, imo.

Something has to.

Increase failure rates for being hit, no ability to cast if you're attacked by 3+ things at once?