Why aren't there more character application reviewers?

[Ideas]

It seems like an easy enough job.

[Mook]

The staff really does a tremendous job - I heard of a guy getting approved in under 20 minutes yesterday.  Sundays do seem kinda slow though, maybe the staff should let me review the apps, just this one day of the week?  :lol:

And on that note - is Sunday the one day of the week that they're not reviewing like mad, and the apps actually take closer to the 24 period?  There's been speculation to that effect, I n00bishly wonder..

[Sephiroto]

They just hired 4 more immortals that I know of.  That should help, I think.

[sacac]

I don't know.. When my character's waiting approval.. I get the best idea's..  and hope my submitted char gets turned down.. but it usually doesn't.. just a bunch of spelling errors.. So I have a book of characters to use.. which I lose when I have to make a char. for some reason..  :evil:  :oops:  :x

[Rindan]

I was under the impression that most staff members can approve a normal application.  Personally, I see no problem.  I have never had an application take over 24 hours to approve, and in most cases it takes only a couple of hours.  Generally if I drop an application before I go to bed I have approval in the morning.

[sacac]

That's nice and peachy Rindin.. the only problem I have is I die when I'm bored.. type in my new char, then I have the rest of the day to wait for the approval.. But it's ok with me.. really.. I need to get work done anyway. It's only taken them more then 24-hours twice with me.. But it's ok.. I love them nonetheless.. whoever they are.

[Quirk]

It seems like an easy enough job.

There spoke a man (or woman) who never had to review apps on an RPI.

I think Arm's character application turn-around is just peachy, given how soul-destroying and often difficult approving apps can be. I've never immed on Arm itself, but Sanvean and other imms have posted enough of the really bad apps for me to be fairly certain the process is pretty much similar across the board. Once you've waded through four or five apps of this sort:

teh cool d00d
the shadow with glowing eyes
the big shiny-armoured knight

and written some sort of comment on each to explain patiently why their description won't pass muster, you then have to move onto the outrageously demanding ones, explaining to each why you can't swap cook for backstab, why they can't be the unacknowledged love-child of Northern and Southern nobility, and that if they want the half-man half-gortok, they'll have to special app for it and that the code isn't really set up to support half-gortok humanoids. Next comes grammar nazi time, where you either struggle to render a description that looks like it was written by an illiterate into some standard form of English or send it back for rewriting.

And those are the easy ones. The borderline cases are the tricky ones. The people using words you've never heard of in their descriptions who turn out to be imaginative beyond even the dictionary. Did they misspell something? Or do you need a bigger dictionary? The ambiguously stated background that might, just might, mean that the player thinks their character can get away with being the scion of a Merchant House, or might mean that they're just the lowly offspring of a couple of the House's crafters. The hapless newbie's fourth submission that still isn't quite right, but that you feel you ought to allow in on compassionate grounds.

All in all, it's a bit of a relief to come to one you can approve without at least having to rewrite it a bit. Wading through apps is a gruelling process, and, no matter how you streamline it, as long as you have to give feedback when you turn down an app it will remain a gruelling process.

You have to trust someone reasonably well to understand all this before you give them the job of reviewing apps. You need to believe their English skills are up to scratch, that they know mud policy on half-gortok half-men, that they have the concentration necessary to read through a dozen apps and still catch the duplicated line opening the description on the thirteenth when skimming over it. That's why app reviewing is limited to those already trusted enough to be on staff.

Quirk

[Bestatte]

Also consider that 114 applications were sent just this past month...

Then assume that they didn't get sent at a nice even pace of, say, 3.82 per day.

Now assume that probably 20 were sent on each Friday before IMM shut-down, since it makes sense that us players would think the IMMs have time to approve apps when they're not dealing with players playing the game on the shut-down day. That leaves just under 40 for the other days of the week, which a tad under 2 per day (excluding Fridays, which is already covered with the 20).

Now you have maybe what, 5 or 6 IMMs who know their way around a thesaurus well enough to handle apps, who -also- happen to be available to approve them on Saturdays so they can manage the 24-hour window. Then add to that all the stuff Quirk wrote in his post above.

Sure it would be great if we could have "The Saikun Of Everything App" doing nothing but churning out app approvals and rejections 24/7. But we're dealing with people who have real lives (though they probably won't admit to that), trying to please people who think the IMMs exist to serve them at the player's convenience alone.

Given all the above, notwithstanding some really glaring typos and grammar errors that get overlooked because they're trying to get them out as fast as they can, and I'd say they're doing better than could be expected and deserve applause, not more staff.

On the other hand...

Give me all the apps and let me spell/grammar/genre-check them! I WANNA do it! Honest!

That is all.

[Angela Christine]

Also consider that 114 applications were sent just this past month...

Then assume that they didn't get sent at a nice even pace of, say, 3.82 per day.

Are you sure about that math?  I checked last week's weekly update and that seems low to me.


11/17/2003: 52 applications approved, 14 rejected, 58 edited

That looks like 124 to me, just for one week.  I assume "edited" means "edited and then approved" and is in addition to the ones "approved" which would mean "approved without editing".

11/24/2003: 72 applications approved, 9 rejected, 41 edited

And that week 122.

It seems like the monthly count would be somewhere around 400-600, more than 10 apps per day.  At 10 minutes per app, it would take at least 2 hours per day, assuming you didn't go stark, raving mad before you got though the whole pile.  Poor imms.

As for how hard it is, it probably isn't as hard as being a coal miner, but that doesn't mean it is easy.  You'd need a good sight knowledge of proper spelling, grammer and punctuation, which are skills even many university grads haven't mastered.  Plus understanding all the subtlties of the game world, as Bestatte mentioned.  There are a lot of fiddling little details, like making sure that they don't put a period at the end of their sdescs.   It isn't quantum physics, but it isn't necessarily easy either.

App approvals seem like the most improtant part of the game when you are waiting for an app, but the imms that can do the approvals have other duties too (besides their real lives) and I assume they don't drop what they are doing every time a new app drops into the que.

AC

[Tamarin]

The staff really does a tremendous job - I heard of a guy getting approved in under 20 minutes yesterday.

A few weeks ago, Sanvean approved one of my characters within five minutes of it beeing submitted.  Unfortunately, he died just as quickly.

[DrunkenSalarr]

I WANNA FLYIN SHAP

Sorry, it had to be posted somewhere in here.

The turn-arround time for app aproval on Arm is great, especially when compared to other MUDs.  I know that for me, approval has taken anywhere from 3min (really, really lucky) to 20hrs.  An almost guarenteed 1 day turn around is actually quite fast.  And while yes, a few more Imms looking at apps would probably increase the rate, I don't really see it as increasing that much, and I don't see the "Under 24hrs" stipulation being lowered.

I very much like the App process how it is.

[Sanvean]

Every staff member that has expressed interest in approving apps is, in fact, an app reviewer, which is over half the staff. There's a lot more than 10 apps a day. I try to check the queue at least once a day, usually closer to 2-3.  On occasion, things like illness and holidays do cause delays. Quirk has recreated some of the app-approving experience to a frighteningly accurate degree.

I will also shake my cane at you and say that when I was a player, it could take up to a freaking MONTH for a character approval

Ways Players can Speed up the Process

Disconnect fully after submitting an app. Otherwise we can see it in the queue but can't approve it.

For the love of the Goddess, run the app through a spell and grammar checker beforehand if you don't already.

Clear things beforehand, so your half-man half-gortok doesn't languish in the queue with everyone on the imm channel going "Did Naephet approve that? I dunno, let's wait till he's on and ask him." Put the name of the person who cleared it in the top line of the background.

Don't create characters that have odd vendettas against the clan that killed your old character and then apparently went on to kill, rape, and burn the new character's parents. Just don't, don't, don't, don't. Please.

[Tlaloc]

Lets not forget that old players like myself remember the days when you had to wait two weeks to get an approval.

Older players, like Sanvean, remember the days when you had to wait a whole month.

[Tamarin]

Hasn't Sanvean always "owned" this mud?

[X-D]

And even older players remember when it took less then a week simply cause you probly had the only one for that day, but then with a player base of less then 20.........

[Sanvean]

Hasn't Sanvean always "owned" this mud?

Not at all. I started playing in 91 or 92, and didn't get on staff for a couple of years. By my reckoning, the staff members that have been around the longest on staff are Tenebrius and Nessalin.

[Xygax]

Hasn't Sanvean always "owned" this mud?

No.  There's a nice history around somewhere, perhaps someone will post it, as I don't have the link handy.

[Saikun]

Go read the stuff on the Journal Page.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/armageddonmud/

It has all kinds of good history stuff. Like some crazy ninja class you used to be able to play.

-S

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Regular app approval time is fine, in my opinion, but what about special apps?

I've never sent one in, and might do so soon. How long does it take? Should I create a new character to amuse myself while I wait, or should I not even bother?

[Carnage]

A week to a month or so. Someone said Naephet does them in batches too so it's really luck of the draw.