Luir's/Kurac: Why?

[FamousAmos]

After the destruction of shanty down, and even before that, Kurac having to share Luir's as a GMH hot spot, what  purpose does it currently have besides a resting spot before continuing to the next city state?

With the current stagnation, Luir's is reduced to nothing more than a Cenyr or Blackwing, with some spice perks and virtual Pleasure Den. It doesn't even have a proper watering hole anymore.

And staff does not allow for any improvement, in example cleaning rubble, rebuilding a somewhat reduced shanty town, etc. Because they would like to see the player base hang out in the larger cities. But imho Luir's is not the cause of reduction of city play.

While the location has so much potential, and leading players are eager to make something out of it, staff has been dragging their feet, even after this whole crisis from last month, to agree with the majority of the player base and give the Outpost a little TLC.

[roughneck]

Luirs was my fav when it was fully Kurac owned and operated. Kurac regulars, Kurac Outriders, untrustworthy powerful spice merchants. It was cool.

[Kavrick]

Luir's is an awesome place for the game, it's central to the entire map, compact, easy to get to from anywhere, and you will find a variety of characters appearing from all over the world. Sadly, staff hate Luir's, and would rather divy up people and seperate them into the city stafe. Luir's gets punishment after punishment for no good reason after the staff wanting to strong-hand people into playing the cities.

I've been trying to stay positive because the staff have shown that they're willing to try. But for some reason they still have this attitude of 'roadblocks in front of players is better than helping players achieve what they want to do'. Removing the water from Luir's, gating off the spice way for no reason, especially considering there are non GMH NPCs in the spie way. Not to mention that this goes against their claim of 'things will happen in luir's if people work towards it!' when in reality, a gate can just appear overnight if the staff want it.

Luir's is the hotspot of commerce and is controlled by potentially the strongest groups in the game, yet it is somehow a rundown shithole of shanties and tents. This makes zero sense for anyone who knows anything about how trade routes and developing cities work. It's frustrating and it sucks, Luir's is a perfect spot for the currently lower-than-historic playercount and yet rather than being utilized, it's being ruined.

[Tuannon]

Potentially the strongest how?

Luirs Garrison got clowned by rioting soldiers escaping from an ambush leagues away from their home. Either Allanak or Tuluk could pretty much annex Luirs any time they wanted, the only thing stopping them is Allanak or Tuluk. Just because fourteen former Bynner PCs live in Luirs doesn't mean their army comes even close to being able to do more than secure Luirs from gith or the like.

The Ara'Seik already talked shit and got hit as it were.

Luirs is a mecca for trade, yes, and while I think the GMH families should be building up logistics and material stores in Luirs it should in no means even slightly challenge Allanak or Tuluk in terms of sheer capacity or manpower. Luir's utility for trade comes from its location and its political views, which are it generally minds its own business.

I like Luirs, but the only reason it gets much of the love it does because it doesn't have any antisocial power players in it, for now. It should be reasonably distant third in terms of world view though.

[Tailong]

I clearly remember staff saying they would totally rebuild the tents in Luir's, but they weren't going to bother until players put in the work and roleplay. Has anyone even attempted to do this? I am going to go ahead and say: Nope. They haven't. They would rather complain about stuff than actually put in the work.

Nothing comes for free.  Simple as.

Example. Wanted a room description changed. Admins gave a specific list of items, and costs and spent the time roleplaying and gathering the materials to make it what we wanted. Change happens with effort.

[FamousAmos]

I clearly remember staff saying they would totally rebuild the tents in Luir's, but they weren't going to bother until players put in the work and roleplay. Has anyone even attempted to do this? I am going to go ahead and say: Nope. They haven't. They would rather complain about stuff than actually put in the work.

I played a Dealer a year and a half ago, and it was a hard no.

No shanties. No apartments.

Despite myself offering to have the Outpost rebuilt and wanting to gather materials for it.

It was always "No".

And it doesn't seem this attitude has changed much.

[Kavrick]

I clearly remember staff saying they would totally rebuild the tents in Luir's, but they weren't going to bother until players put in the work and roleplay. Has anyone even attempted to do this? I am going to go ahead and say: Nope. They haven't. They would rather complain about stuff than actually put in the work.

Nothing comes for free.  Simple as.

Example. Wanted a room description changed. Admins gave a specific list of items, and costs and spent the time roleplaying and gathering the materials to make it what we wanted. Change happens with effort.

I do love that you immediately assume the worst of players. It has been asked, by me, by other kuraci players and even kuraci leaders about getting apartments in Luir's, the answer is always no. With no caviat or "earn it".

[Tailong]

I do love that you immediately assume the worst of players. It has been asked, by me, by other kuraci players and even kuraci leaders about getting apartments in Luir's, the answer is always no. With no caviat or "earn it".

Asked and effort expended are two different things.

Luir's had tents, not apartments, so that is likely why the answer is continually no. For an outpost to have apartments makes zero sense in the grand scheme, considering even the Byn have a tent in the outer circle.

[Pariah]

I think ultimately it's a playability thing.

So its already the meta that people all walk around with large bags or nets right?  Half-giants crates and chests...

Why?

Because backpacks only fit so much and it's normally, at least in my opinion, the expendable things, hunted goods, foraged goods, craft goods, things that I'm either going to pawn off in a shop or sell to a player or both.

Now why do we just carry this shit around all the time? I believe it's lack of personal (semi) secure storage.  Most newbs can't afford to have an apartment to dump shit in.  Plus this is very much a time=money type game.  So if Amos the hunter only plays once or twice a day because he's got to watch his crotch-goblins IRL he's not going to have that time to build up the capital required to rent up an apartment for two weeks.

I see adding more semi-secure places as a net gain for the game, plus it tends to lead to people hanging around.  I've had characters that I could have moved to another city but I've stayed in Allanak simply because of my shitty apartment.

So then the question goes if that logic works, does staff just not want people to be centered around Luirs?  If so why not?

I see Luirs as the best of both worlds, it's central so I can go south or north and hunt, the GMH leadership is a hell of lot less heavy handed then PC templars (Pro or con that's to be debated) but because of it's shitty living (or non living) situation it's a rough sell.

I think we need something there, I don't care if it's tents, I don't care if it's an underground cellar that has a lock on the hatch, something there would be nice.

[LindseyBalboa]

How do we take the positive aspects of Luir's and apply them to Allanak and Tuluk in a way that makes people as excited to play in those areas as they do in Luir's?

If all it takes is re-adding tents to make Luir's a populated city, I don't think Luir's is the problem.

If adding tents doesn't re-populate Luir's, then it was kind of a moot issue.

Add unguarded tents, the Garrison has other things to worry about besides patrolling a shanty town.

[FamousAmos]

Luir's had tents, not apartments,

Wrong.

They had both.

In fact, they also had warehouses.

[Kestria]

Luirs Vs Cities...

The main thing here being is.. there are a lot of witches in the world.  And playing witches can either mean go to Tuluk and get killed, or go to Allanak and get enslaved, OR, go to Luirs and Storm, be known about and be free to do as you want, with yes, still danger around, and you know, eww witch, but, not outright death or enslavement.

Another thing, yes, you'll hate me saying it, but,, no nobles/templars no one around to have their guards pin you against a wall and shake you down for the 300 sid you've just spent all day making.  No templar breathing down your neck for having to buy a merchants license to sell the 3 chaltons hides you just managed to get.  No trigger happy city assassins going to slit your throat with 0 RP because they want that 300 sid too, including hte boots off your feet.

Luirs/Red Storm/Tribes are very popular at the moment, and this is why this subject keeps coming up, my speculation is because people have got bored of being robbed, killed, and squashed in cities.  All of the changes at the moment seem to be staff trying to subtly direct people back in to the cities, and, this keeps coming up because people are simply not wanting to. 

Any apartments again in Luirs isn't going to happen, staff are solid on this, because they want people in the cities.

Rise up and kill all the templars and nobles, start a revolution people

[Kestria]

Unpopular opinion, everyones next character needs to start in Cenyr, and help build it up to be a glass city

Cenyr needs some love too.

[FamousAmos]

How do we take the positive aspects of Luir's and apply them to Allanak and Tuluk in a way that makes people as excited to play in those areas as they do in Luir's?

If all it takes is re-adding tents to make Luir's a populated city, I don't think Luir's is the problem.

If adding tents doesn't re-populate Luir's, then it was kind of a moot issue.

Add unguarded tents, the Garrison has other things to worry about besides patrolling a shanty town.

Not just that... cleaning up the rubble would be a great start.

Its the richest Outpost in the Known. And its still covered in destroyed and ruined bits of buildings.

[whengravityfails]

Luirs Vs Cities...

Another thing, yes, you'll hate me saying it, but,, no nobles/templars no one around to have their guards pin you against a wall and shake you down for the 300 sid you've just spent all day making.  No templar breathing down your neck for having to buy a merchants license to sell the 3 chaltons hides you just managed to get.  No trigger happy city assassins going to slit your throat with 0 RP because they want that 300 sid too, including hte boots off your feet.

Luirs/Red Storm/Tribes are very popular at the moment, and this is why this subject keeps coming up, my speculation is because people have got bored of being robbed, killed, and squashed in cities.  All of the changes at the moment seem to be staff trying to subtly direct people back in to the cities, and, this keeps coming up because people are simply not wanting to. 

For me I know this is 100% the issue with Allanak. I know playing there just isn't for me because every time I try playing an Allanak-based character I get harassed mercilessly by Templars/criminals/random assholes quickly. I don't seek it out and I don't provoke it, it's just the way things are there. But it does mean I avoid the hell out of the place because being annoyed constantly isn't my idea of a good time. I HAVE had good antag in Nak, but it's been awhile. Instead it's just petty, irritating stuff.

Tuluk...I just end up bored and heading off to Luir's for RP anyways. There needs to be a bigger reason for people to want to visit. The city behind the Inkwall feels pretty dead most of the time, I went RL days not seeing another PC. I like Tuluk, I just wish it was more lively. Oh, and THOSE KIND of Templars? Ugh.

[Riev]

I do love that you immediately assume the worst of players. It has been asked, by me, by other kuraci players and even kuraci leaders about getting apartments in Luir's, the answer is always no. With no caviat or "earn it".

Asked and effort expended are two different things.

Luir's had tents, not apartments, so that is likely why the answer is continually no. For an outpost to have apartments makes zero sense in the grand scheme, considering even the Byn have a tent in the outer circle.

Your attitude is not helpful. At all.

Outside of that, you are wrong in assumptions on all sides. Please step back and think about what you are saying and how you are treating your fellow players.

[Tailong]

I do love that you immediately assume the worst of players. It has been asked, by me, by other kuraci players and even kuraci leaders about getting apartments in Luir's, the answer is always no. With no caviat or "earn it".

Asked and effort expended are two different things.

Luir's had tents, not apartments, so that is likely why the answer is continually no. For an outpost to have apartments makes zero sense in the grand scheme, considering even the Byn have a tent in the outer circle.

Your attitude is not helpful. At all.

Outside of that, you are wrong in assumptions on all sides. Please step back and think about what you are saying and how you are treating your fellow players.

I am not at all responsible for your perceptions. Read it for what it is, not for what you believe, or want it to be. There is no intent or tone in text, and my assumption is 100% legit until someone comes forward and says 'yes, I did roleplay cleaning it up'. They haven't and likely won't.

[Kavrick]

I do love that you immediately assume the worst of players. It has been asked, by me, by other kuraci players and even kuraci leaders about getting apartments in Luir's, the answer is always no. With no caviat or "earn it".

Asked and effort expended are two different things.

Luir's had tents, not apartments, so that is likely why the answer is continually no. For an outpost to have apartments makes zero sense in the grand scheme, considering even the Byn have a tent in the outer circle.

Your attitude is not helpful. At all.

Outside of that, you are wrong in assumptions on all sides. Please step back and think about what you are saying and how you are treating your fellow players.

I am not at all responsible for your perceptions. Read it for what it is, not for what you believe, or want it to be. There is no intent or tone in text, and my assumption is 100% legit until someone comes forward and says 'yes, I did roleplay cleaning it up'. They haven't and likely won't.

You're asking for proof that is literally against the rules to give.

[Tailong]

You're asking for proof that is literally against the rules to give.

I...never asked for anything. I said that no one has bothered to start roleplaying it out when staff clearly said they would clean up the rubble if someone took initiative. This was a drawn out conversation you were part of in discord, and I believe started.

[Kavrick]

You're asking for proof that is literally against the rules to give.

I...never asked for anything. I said that no one has bothered to start roleplaying it out when staff clearly said they would clean up the rubble if someone took initiative. This was a drawn out conversation you were part of in discord, and I believe started.

I did not start the conversation in the discord. I joined in but did not start it. But I can tell you that kuraci characters have 100% put work towards restoring Luir's. I cannot prove it without breaking rules.

[SpyGuy]

While I would much prefer Luir's be rebuilt and hope that clean up work will at least bear fruit, staff have made it abundantly clear they don't want apartments in Luir's.  So while that remains the case:

I hope staff can do a few things to make Luir's an even better trade hub.  Things like automating wagon escorts -out- of Luir's to enable the GMH to travel easier and not get stuck.  Some form of Nenyuki storage crates or whatever so indy hunters or even traveling traders have a place to put their stuff while they wait for a buyer.  That sort of thing.

If we can't have Luir's as a settlement then it should be the best trade hub possible.

[Tuannon]

Cenyr needs some love too.

That is to say, the love of the Highlord. I need some new stained glass windows comissioned for my chateau de wankere.

[Chettaman]

There was a party in luirs. All someone had to do was say there was one and people came.
So I propose: if you want people to see you as a trader, you post on the boards in cities when you will be roleplaying as a trader and where you will be roleplaying as a trader and people will come.

I don't know why I just thought of this!!! 10+ years of roleplay and I'm just now realizing this. Mini RPTs for merchants!!
You better be stocked up.

[Kismetic]

If people have the opinion that Luir's apartments isn't good for the game or doesn't "make sense", even though they had shanties and warehouses before, can you explain why Red Storm has two apartment buildings?  Just for us normies here in the gallery.

[Lotion]

How do we take the positive aspects of Luir's and apply them to Allanak and Tuluk in a way that makes people as excited to play in those areas as they do in Luir's?

If all it takes is re-adding tents to make Luir's a populated city, I don't think Luir's is the problem.

If adding tents doesn't re-populate Luir's, then it was kind of a moot issue.

Add unguarded tents, the Garrison has other things to worry about besides patrolling a shanty town.

I liked Luir's because it lacked an important negative aspect: Templars and Nobles.