Upcoming Combat System Changes, the Details

[LindseyBalboa]

I've had some ten days played stalkers, who fight every IG day, of that ten days played RL time character.

Can easily kill drov beetles, spiders and the like in that amount of time for instance.

Get just obliterated by a heavy combat type out of chargen in a spar or real battle.

Is there going to be anything in the works to balance that?  I also understand I could have just fallen victim to RNG fails, but it's happened many times on my longer lived stalkers that a newb heavy combat guy will just tear me to ribbons.

Since this is the result of hidden skills, it made me wonder if those hidden skills going to be looked at while making the new combat system?  There are circumstances where those hidden skills interact poorly with weapon skills or the world: when one raises much more quickly than another, or the hunter who manhandles dangerous game but can't fight a novice human who only fights peers at practice, etc.

tl;dr are hidden combat stats/skills/things being reworked as well? will there be hidden mechanics?

[Halaster]

The change to two handed weapon speed will impact half-giants, because currently it completely does away with all the detriments of having a low agility.

To expand on what Brokkr is saying here, this is one of the ways we're saying 2h is OP.  It actually gives people speed bonuses so much to the point where it negates all agility penalties, even on a low agil HG.  2h is broken.

[Dracul]

...

On weapon weight, you must be making some assumptions on how we would handle weapon weight impacting combat speed.  How are you envisioning it?

I'm wondering if we will be able to take a nap in between HG combat attacks...or will it rebalance 2H bonuses and bring attack speed more in line with dual wield/one handed/shield. Weapon weight impacting speed could mean weight relative to a characters strength/size, or it could mean a flat rate reduction.

[Armaddict]

So I'm pretty okay with combat code on Armageddon.  I think it's pretty great actually.

But one of the more consistent complaints is when it comes to PvP, fast reactions and typing reigns supreme.  Has there been any thought to making specifically PvP events tuned down as far as speed?  Even so far as introducing actual 'rounds' where agility gives more actions or something along those lines?

Keep PvE the same, but make PvP just hardcoded to behave differently?  Or would this just piss off more people than it pleased?

[lostinspace]

Will endurance or character size play into these calculations in the future?

The heft of a 50lb sword is a lot to a 180lb human, and even more to a 130lb elf, but it's probably not so significant to a 900lb half-giant?

Similarly, will wisdom ever come into play for combat? Off the top of my head, feel like it could easily influence defense to a degree in the form of anticipating an opponents attack. Or a skill like disarm, I'm sure strength and agility play a major factor but anticipating and leading an attempt seems like the purview of wisdom, at least to a degree.

[Krath]

The change to two handed weapon speed will impact half-giants, because currently it completely does away with all the detriments of having a low agility.

To expand on what Brokkr is saying here, this is one of the ways we're saying 2h is OP.  It actually gives people speed bonuses so much to the point where it negates all agility penalties, even on a low agil HG.  2h is broken.

Thanks Brokkr and Hal, here is how I read the statement: The weight of a weapon will direct effect how fast/slow you swing.

What I would like to know: Will the speed of attack portion of the calculation only take into account the weight of the weapon, or will it take into account the weight of the weapon relative to the wielding PCs strength and encumbrance level?

[Windstorm]

Similarly, will wisdom ever come into play for combat? Off the top of my head, feel like it could easily influence defense to a degree in the form of anticipating an opponents attack. Or a skill like disarm, I'm sure strength and agility play a major factor but anticipating and leading an attempt seems like the purview of wisdom, at least to a degree.

I was going to post specifically with the question of whether wisdom would hopefully have some inclusion in this also!

[Halaster]

will it take into account the weight of the weapon relative to the wielding PCs strength and encumbrance level?

Yes.  That's one of the things we're still hashing out is the 'how', but we are decided that:  heavier weapons will be slower, however that can be mitigated by strength.

[Halaster]

I was going to post specifically with the question of whether wisdom would hopefully have some inclusion in this also!

No, wisdom will not have any role in direct combat.  It comes into play in how it affects how much/fast you can gain skills.  I personally don't see a way to put wisdom into the combat calculations without it feeling shoe-horned in.

[Tranquil]

Two-handed
- Slower attacks

Yes.  That's one of the things we're still hashing out is the 'how', but we are decided that:  heavier weapons will be slower, however that can be mitigated by strength.

So what's the point of this change, other then adding some bonuses to the other combat styles?

From what has been said, two handed will still be king considering most combat characters are very high strength.

EDIT: And increasing the caps will just make the problem worse. Instead of a giant hitting you for 100 hp, he'll be hitting for double that.

[Nao]

I like these. I hope that the overall 'level' ends up closer to current two-handed than current dual-wield so that new PCs don't get more fragile than they already are.

[Brokkr]

Two-handed
- Slower attacks

Yes.  That's one of the things we're still hashing out is the 'how', but we are decided that:  heavier weapons will be slower, however that can be mitigated by strength.

So what's the point of this change, other then adding some bonuses to the other combat styles?

From what has been said, two handed will still be king considering most combat characters are very high strength.

EDIT: And increasing the caps will just make the problem worse. Instead of a giant hitting you for 100 hp, he'll be hitting for double that.

Two discreet conversations.  Two handed will be slower, due to a change in the two handed skill.  Full stop.

Weight will have a new impact on combat speed.

Two different things.

[Kialae]

I was going to post specifically with the question of whether wisdom would hopefully have some inclusion in this also!

No, wisdom will not have any role in direct combat.  It comes into play in how it affects how much/fast you can gain skills.  I personally don't see a way to put wisdom into the combat calculations without it feeling shoe-horned in.

Staff finally confirms Wisdom is a dump stat.

[Lutagar]

Celves have always come with the warning of "don't play these if you want to be good at fighting." Do you think this change will be enough that celves could reasonably be on par with humans and dwarves?

[Krath]

Celves have always come with the warning of "don't play these if you want to be good at fighting." Do you think this change will be enough that celves could reasonably be on par with humans and dwarves?

It feels like this is a huge nerf to Strength based races (Dwarves/HGs/Muls) and a bonus to everyone else. Will there be extensive UATing prior to it's roll out?

[Kavrick]

Celves have always come with the warning of "don't play these if you want to be good at fighting." Do you think this change will be enough that celves could reasonably be on par with humans and dwarves?

It feels like this is a huge nerf to Strength based races (Dwarves/HGs/Muls) and a bonus to everyone else. Will there be extensive UATing prior to it's roll out?

I don't think this is a bad thing at all, Dwarves/hgs/muls are like the 'meta' combat race and I think all races should have their own niche in combat.

[Krath]

I agree with you 100%, however, this feels to me, which is just an opinion, like it is making all of the races equal, rather than having their own niche and that does not set well with me. Why not take it a step further and just allow one race to be selected if we are trying to make everything equal, that would be a much easier item to code.

Currently, on an OOC level, unless I am playing a Half-giant, Elves always have been the scariest race to me due to their speed, light hits, and poison. I could have a maxed out <insert combo here> and still would do everything I can to avoid that elf smoke.

Same thing with Dwarves, HGs and Murder Muls. Humans and breeds, do not do anything great, just everything passable.

[Pariah]

I think it's more about making it less instant win for some races versus others in a pure combat situation.

Sure there are poisons and magick, but they all require foresight.

If a 20 day dude runs into a two day half giant, he shouldn't instantly lose after carving up the giant five times to the one time the giant connects and knocks him cold.

[Krath]

Based on how it is written, you will see a majority of combat based PCs playing elves because of the huge advantages they will get, essentially always doing max min damage.  Huge win for them, and they will become the meta. Id bet the mortgage on that.

[Lutagar]

Based on how it is written, you will see a majority of combat based PCs playing elves because of the huge advantages they will get, essentially always doing max min damage.  Huge win for them, and they will become the meta. Id bet the mortgage on that.

probably not, even if agility became more useful than strength celves would still limited by not being able to ride or wear armor without dying.

as for humans - i really don't see the problem with them getting buffed vs dwarves. seems like the only people really losing out on this are hgs and dwarves.

[Brokkr]

We are actually re-creating the niche.

Half-giants using 2-handed can attack almost as fast as elves, right now.  So think 2-handed having the same massive hits, but being at the same speed as weapon/shield.

[Gunnerblaster]

Based on how it is written, you will see a majority of combat based PCs playing elves because of the huge advantages they will get, essentially always doing max min damage.  Huge win for them, and they will become the meta. Id bet the mortgage on that.

Since delves are limited slot availability, I don't see a problem. And if a player decides to make celves, then that's great because it's putting player population back into the cities. Plus, if there's any race/player to get the ball rolling on inner city drama, it's definitely going to be celves since, ya know, that's pretty much all they're allowed to be xD

[Riev]

We are actually re-creating the niche.

Half-giants using 2-handed can attack almost as fast as elves, right now.  So think 2-handed having the same massive hits, but being at the same speed as weapon/shield.

Except also with the insinuation that they might get a bad roll and do 4 damage on a 30second attack speed.

A few players being vocal about a race has never made a perceived nerf so large. Obviously we will see, but recent history shows testing is not a strong suit of releases.

[Pariah]

Combat has been broken and abusable by folks for wayyyy too long in my opinion.

I welcome any change that makes it better.

[Krath]

Based on how it is written, you will see a majority of combat based PCs playing elves because of the huge advantages they will get, essentially always doing max min damage.  Huge win for them, and they will become the meta. Id bet the mortgage on that.

probably not, even if agility became more useful than strength celves would still limited by not being able to ride or wear armor without dying.

Without getting into mechanics and getting another post moderated, I see how you would think that, and I disagree.