What things should we close?

[Pariah]

Damn, Everyone seems to hate the Dune Stalkers.

[LindseyBalboa]

Damn, Everyone seems to hate the Dune Stalkers.

they hate em cause they ain't em

[Shabago]

TrollFace.gif

Now this has had some time to circulate and some voting numbers come in as means to prove a point, here's the bait and switch. It was a joke-thread to point out how the other thread was being derailed, why and how.

With the votes cast as is, absolutely nothing ran away as a 'loser' to close, and thus means each of them has some manner of support, interest or players actively in them. Further, the fact the largest amount of votes when into "Don't close nuthin'" speaks for itself.

We have no active discussion staff side to close anything. Instead, the point was to show that closures hurt fellow players, or that the content is apparently being well received (don't close anything).

Instead, we'll continue to carrot, rather than stick, areas of the game we believe need it, could use it, or should have a bigger player portion and doesn't. This can be found in the city thread, Hestia's posts in discord recently, Halasters coding efforts and a project of my own over mini-jobs that are coming soon - to name a few with more to come.

[Pariah]

Well, Dune Stalkers got the most hate. So they must either be doing something incredibly well or badly.

[Bebop]

I voted for the Bashurit and Dune Stalkers for these reasons:

From the Dune Stalkers public docs/description:

A very secretive and rarely seen tribe of desert elves, the Dune Stalkers are never-the-less known to be some of the best hit and run raiders in the world of Zalanthas. Combining speed, cunning, an and almost supernatural knowledge of terrain and environment, caravans that are hit by Dune Stalker raiding crews are usually unaware of danger until the first few bodies tumble off the wagon.

This is an immediate no from me.  Any tribe that is rarely seen is not geared towards interaction with other PCs.   Generally, I think most people don't know much about them.  They're cool in theory.  The idea of a short story where a group is riding through the Known on a wagon and suddenly they're ambushed with silent, raptor like precision makes for a great short story.  It doesn't make for good game play.

As for the Bashurit:

Thryzn organize into tribes, like many other desert-dwelling races, and form strong bonds with their tribemates. They are generally aware how outside races view them, and when combined with their own racial pride this makes them very wary and reluctant to visit cities or larger outposts. While thryzn have traditionally been very isolated, recent events have thrust them into the Known, and many of them (particularly the younger ones) are somewhat curious of the larger world.

Originally, I was excited about a new mutant race.  I still do like all of the coded mutation options.  And I do love the idea of coded mutants.  Especially if they were to reclaim their spot in the cities, or Tuluk as they once did. 

Instead, per the typical tribal dynamic, they have been set up for aggression, bias and isolation.  Despite it being that they began as a race almost wiped out (and could supposedly could hhave been due to their actions) nothing about the current status of this tribe gives any indication of low numbers or a near wipe out scenario in how they have interfaced with the major factions in the game.

They've been set up to already have infrastructure, production, military and trade in the Known.  It isn't reflective of a beleaguered near wiped out race of disgusting freaks that has to carefully choose their actions lest they get either wiped out, or forever written off as aggressors.  From what I've witnessed they're being treated like elves with scales.

I would have loved to see thryzen as they once were.  Fringe groups at the outskirts of polite society in the city, relegated to the Rinth and Lows of their respective states.  Skulking about Red Storm with speculation of mutation occurring due to the nature of silt or magick.  That would have been cool.  But just setting them up as a mini-outpost or GMH unto themselves straight out of the gate as their introduction into the Known world is not, I feel, what the game needs.

I also feel like their behavior is indistinguishable from other tribes.  Yes, they have their own ideals and structure but at the end of the day what interaction do they bring to the game?  The same thing most tribes bring to the Known - Isolation combat spam and gathering, then interacting with others as either xenophobics or aggressors.

[Bebop]

TrollFace.gif

Now this has had some time to circulate and some voting numbers come in as means to prove a point, here's the bait and switch. It was a joke-thread to point out how the other thread was being derailed, why and how.

With the votes cast as is, absolutely nothing ran away as a 'loser' to close, and thus means each of them has some manner of support, interest or players actively in them. Further, the fact the largest amount of votes when into "Don't close nuthin'" speaks for itself.

We have no active discussion staff side to close anything. Instead, the point was to show that closures hurt fellow players, or that the content is apparently being well received (don't close anything).

Instead, we'll continue to carrot, rather than stick, areas of the game we believe need it, could use it, or should have a bigger player portion and doesn't. This can be found in the city thread, Hestia's posts in discord recently, Halasters coding efforts and a project of my own over mini-jobs that are coming soon - to name a few with more to come.

Soooo staff weren't interested in player opinions or feedback at all and were just trying to teach us all a lesson?  As a joke?

Also don't close anything doesn't speak for itself.  There were 58 votes to close at least one tribe and only 27 for don't close any tribe.

[Veselka]

Well that's pretty confusing. Is the enticing people to play in cities thread a troll post also?

A bait and switch (funny as it may be for Staff) isn't great for optics. People obviously have opinions about both closure of existing tribes and previous closures (Tuluk for instance). Not a great subject to toy around with, considering a mass exodus of previous players surrounding Tuluks closure etc.

We are adults — if Staff wants to continue pursuing opening tribes and ask why people aren't playing in cities that's totally fine. Some players might not agree with that approach and that's fine too.

[Pariah]

They are allowed to try and prove a point.

His point was the don't do anything was the winner.

As some folks said in a different thread, a good chunk of us are the vocal majority but not the majority in general, we just post a lot.

There are probably tons of people who lurk and don't engage in the banter, as much as it sucks as I'm one of those vocal ones, just because we talk a lot doesn't make us right.

[Bebop]

They are allowed to try and prove a point.

His point was the don't do anything was the winner.

As some folks said in a different thread, a good chunk of us are the vocal majority but not the majority in general, we just post a lot.

There are probably tons of people who lurk and don't engage in the banter, as much as it sucks as I'm one of those vocal ones, just because we talk a lot doesn't make us right.

I mean... again, it wasn't the winner.  Math is a thing over 58 votes for closing at least one tribe only 27 for the closure of no tribes.  And also if staff aren't genuinely interested in player feedback they absolutely should not ask for it and then tell players actually we had no interest in your feedback lol, this is to show you guys you're wrong.

[moonlit]

Code Select Expand

mysql> use horta_smf;
mysql> select ID_POLL, question from smf_polls;
+---------+--------------------------------------------------+
| ID_POLL | question                                         |
+---------+--------------------------------------------------+
|   58997 | Pick your closure poison.                        |
+---------+--------------------------------------------------+

mysql> SELECT smf_members.realName, smf_poll_choices.label
    -> FROM smf_log_polls
    -> INNER JOIN smf_members ON smf_log_polls.ID_MEMBER = smf_members.ID_MEMBER
    -> INNER JOIN smf_poll_choices ON smf_log_polls.ID_CHOICE = smf_poll_choices.ID_CHOICE
    -> AND smf_log_polls.ID_POLL = smf_poll_choices.ID_POLL
    -> WHERE smf_log_polls.ID_POLL = 58997;

Code Select Expand


+------------------+---------+
[..]
| User4            | Bashurit       |
| User5's account1 | Two Moons      |
| User5's account2 | Two Moons      |
| User5's account3 | Two Moons      |
| User5's account4 | Two Moons      |
| User5's account5 | Two Moons      |
| User5's account6 | Two Moons      |
[..]
+------------------+---------+
62 rows in set (0.00 sec)

hmm
yeaaa electronic voting is inherently problematic, waaay too easy to mislead people when it's hidden - should need to attach a vote to a post (which is publicly auditable) (or at least show which accounts voted)

















_{████pranked, but... ████}





Either that or disable polls entirely, it's just not right to give people the impression that it's fair when it's not

[Pariah]

They are allowed to try and prove a point.

His point was the don't do anything was the winner.

As some folks said in a different thread, a good chunk of us are the vocal majority but not the majority in general, we just post a lot.

There are probably tons of people who lurk and don't engage in the banter, as much as it sucks as I'm one of those vocal ones, just because we talk a lot doesn't make us right.

I mean... again, it wasn't the winner.  Math is a thing over 58 votes for closing at least one tribe only 27 for the closure of no tribes.  And also if staff aren't genuinely interested in player feedback they absolutely should not ask for it and then tell players actually we had no interest in your feedback lol, this is to show you guys you're wrong.

The idea I think was that more people are in agreement to leave it alone than those in agreement to close a CERTAIN clan.

If you look at the number of people who want SOMETHING CLOSED and add that up, sure that math works how you say, but what do you propose be done? Draw straws, roll dice? How do you justify which viewpoint needs closed?

I personally think that if a clan has less than two people it shouldn't be a clan or taking up player real estate, but I realize that isn't my choice to make or I'd shutter all of it.

[Bebop]

Great.  Staff acting like they value player input all to say it's a bait and switch to make them feel bad for their behavior.  Amazing strategy.  Can't see how that would damage relations at all.

[Patuk]

For what it's worth..



You know, just to make sure you can actually see it.

[mirk_o_loio]

Close Allanak

[Kialae]

I DARE staff to close Allanak.

[Barsook]

Be careful of what you wish for guys....

[Kialae]

I think Tuluk is better for the closure. It reopened with a fresh identity and perspective and my time I've played there has been great and fun for it. Do it for Allanak and see what happens after keeping it closed for 77 IC years.

In fact, there you go. If you want to rotate things, close them for one King's Age. Cycle them open every year 1.

[Barsook]

You do have a valid point, but the problem is that you gonna have Tuluk be like Allanak.

[dumbstruck]

I DARE staff to close Allanak.

This. And Tuluk. Come play in the Tribes, or play in an Outpost. It's a survivalist desert world post apocalypse. Empires are unrealistic. Retcon empires. Close the gates. 

[Armaddict]

Problem with that being that cities are the 'natural' consolidation of players.

We keep talking about consolidation.  We keep talking about lack of interaction.  It's a recurring theme.

But then we have the places where congregation is natural, where spaces are more proximal, where setups are there for content...and we say 'I don't wanna die THERE' and spread out.

I'm sorry, you can say carrot works better than stick, but we're gonna end up in a carrot farm here and not Armageddon until you make death more common outside of the cities until they're the shelter from the wilds the commoners think they are.

[Hestia]

I think we should go hard-core:

The ATV and the Arabet end up in an unholy alliance, and the resulting babies move to Cenyr. The rest of the planet blows up when Tek and Muk Utep duke it out for the 20th time. No apartments, no save-rooms, one tavern, no templars, no garrison, no GMH.

Everyone's a breed.

Go.

[Halcyon]

How would people feel about a rotating closure schedule, so that 20% of the options were closed at any one time, but you could always count on everything reopening in due time?

Yes, including Allanak and Tuluk and the Sun Runners.

[BadSkeelz]

I think we should go hard-core:

The ATV and the Arabet end up in an unholy alliance, and the resulting babies move to Cenyr. The rest of the planet blows up when Tek and Muk Utep duke it out for the 20th time. No apartments, no save-rooms, one tavern, no templars, no garrison, no GMH.

Everyone's a breed.

Go.

In terms of stat bonuses, breeds are legitimately the most adaptable race of Zalanthas. It's only their inherent inability to get along and establish a breeding population that prevent half-elves (With their superior stats and natural ride) from conquering the Known like emotionally volatile Mongols.

[dumbstruck]

I think we should go hard-core:

The ATV and the Arabet end up in an unholy alliance, and the resulting babies move to Cenyr. The rest of the planet blows up when Tek and Muk Utep duke it out for the 20th time. No apartments, no save-rooms, one tavern, no templars, no garrison, no GMH.

Everyone's a breed.

Go.

Did you just create the Adevari, Hestia? Can I spec app my Cenyri Adevari meow or must I wait until the documentation goes in? Also? Waterslides? Yes or no?

[Barsook]

How would people feel about a rotating closure schedule, so that 20% of the options were closed at any one time, but you could always count on everything reopening in due time?

Yes, including Allanak and Tuluk and the Sun Runners.

Urg, this again?! While I like the idea of rotations, I don't think that the staff will do this. The idea of seasons too.