What would entice you to play more in the cities?

[betweenford]

I think I mentioned it somewhere earlier in this thread but yeah, I love the idea of more attractions. Restaurants, arena, festivals, entertainment/plays/events. Things IRL cities have to attract people to spend time and money there. That's just me, though. 

Restaurants: not a thing in Armageddon at all. There's food sold in every tavern, and most people don't buy any. In fact, most people don't even buy drinks there. Some do. But most don't.

Isn't the Desert Bloom (Formerly the Silver Ginka) a Restaurant? And the Azure Dragon? And the Golden Nugget?

Theres also Bazaar food stands as well.

[Kestria]

I always considered the Desert Bloom a cafe.  Sells teas and sweet food, certainly isn't a tavern.

[Fredd]

I was considering this whole thing earlier and had a thought.

You know what seems like is really missing from the cities? Full on crafters.

They used to be all over the place. Every merchant house had a few, and every indy crew had at least one. But that's not really the case anymore.

Why? Well,  as far as I can tell, i think this has to do with the classes these days.

Why be city bound when you can be something like a Laborer with Advanced weapon and crafting skills, which lets you go out and get your own materials wihtout needing anyone else?
I'de be interested in knowing how many people are hybrid like that.  Cause that gameplay is mostly go out, get mats, come back, build stuff, sell at the market. You are doing the whole supply chain yourself, so there's no downtime for sitting in bars and getting/giving random roleplay.

[betweenford]

I always considered the Desert Bloom a cafe.  Sells teas and sweet food, certainly isn't a tavern.

It's at least de-facto a "bakery", with chairs and tea and sweets. An eatery of some stripe, a restaurant.

[Usiku]

Numbers have been in an upward trend for the last few months. With city populations steadily increasing too. We have been hitting 40ish at peak on some nights, which is in the right direction, with populations skewed towards city play again.

It's possible it's just cyclical. But it would be better if it was stable.

[Trevalyan]

Why be city bound when you can be something like a Laborer with Advanced weapon and crafting skills, which lets you go out and get your own materials wihtout needing anyone else?
I'de be interested in knowing how many people are hybrid like that.  Cause that gameplay is mostly go out, get mats, come back, build stuff, sell at the market. You are doing the whole supply chain yourself, so there's no downtime for sitting in bars and getting/giving random roleplay.

I don't know, man. If you're grinding in a text-based game, that's Kool and the Gang. But it means no one will miss you when the kryl finally take you down. I like city RP, which has already inspired me to uncover certain mysteries and do cool stuff. If the endless flavorless desert and the solo crafter grind is more appealing, then I have to ask: why play at all?

Usiki sounds right here: I'm seeing people in cities and fairly busy taverns, while I can't honestly say how many tribes/ raiders are flourishing right now. I'd be surprised if they were a majority of the active player base.

[Bogre]

l hooded
You see an mdesc that looks an awful lot like ninjaFruitSalad and a set of gear you're pretty sure you saw NinjaFruitSalad wearing before.

You can also veil/mask.  And also, the smart thing to do is change out gears so that what you wear when you are thieving does not match what you wear when you're.. out socializing or whatever.

Just not really possible, since all someone has to do is a no-lag 'look figure' and they've got everything they need.

[BadSkeelz]

Real meta is to write your mdesc in such a way that it doesn't actually use any of your sdesc keywords. Also wear a lot of jewelry and rags and shit to give a two page equipment and hope no one scrolls up.

[dumbstruck]

Reread your post.

If you rob or mug someone and they find out its you, the entire city will jump you beyond just your victim.

Well, yeah. They don't want to be your next target. If you're a shitty thief and get outed, you should face the consequences. Stealth should also be as realistic as coding allows. You shouldn't get to magically vanish without proper rp or vanish in a room with virtually no hiding places.

I think what he means is that if you fail to steal 30 coins from someone in the Gaj, and get outed, the entire active playerbase will be scrolled your sdesc and you'll get Scarlet Lettered as a thief, and its instant-kill on you all the time.

Why would someone play a thief if the only way it can be does is to twink up to (master) before you interact with a single PC? The 'fun' of Armageddon is in the failures, but with city stealthies specifically... failure is a death sentence.

Stealing from or trying to kill a high risk target (someone "notable", or a "pc") is not the only way to interact with pcs. And because interacting this way with pcs is not the only way to interact with them, I don't understand why people are either a. targetting them with shit skills that are liable to fail or b. expecting that in this one area of the game, high risk behavior shouldn't result in bad results often before they are good at what they are doing.

NPCs aren't outing your sdesc to the entire playerbase. Most people who are out there pking other people aren't trying to do that without considerable training, why should they be encouraged do it with theft? Both of these are high risk activities, doing so without considerable training, the likelihood of everything going to shit is high.

You want to steal from someone all the time and have the playerbase never give a shit? Target the playerbase like they actually ARE only about 2 dozen out of a million people that you can do this to, because you have a million Nakkis to practice on, and if you want to go straight for the riskiest 25 people or so out of a million, that's on you. Hell, target elven npcs and laugh about it at the Gaj. You might encourage other people to up their elf hate game.

That's just me though.

[Riev]

It isn't just you, but there's this belief that PCs should not be using their skills to "twink up" on NPCs alone because then you aren't interacting with the playerbase either.

Believe, I would rather work my skills up on some beggar who doesn't matter before I even attempt my skills on that kitted-out Bynner with a mean backhand, or reaching into that Silks pockets.

However, history has shown that if I am only using my skills on NPCs and staff catch wind, I get a nastygram.


Addendum - I do also think that you should be ABLE to fail a steal on someone, be known as a thief and shunned as one, but otherwise not have the entire city trying to kill you in a backroom because you failed to steal 30 coins from someone that one time.

[dumbstruck]

I get that if you aren't interacting with pcs and you're literally just hiding alone somewhere grinding to master. Guess what, pcs don't buy most basic crafts, either, making crafting a primarily npc thing where you're doing your skill shit. Same with hunting. How many hunters are going to other pcs to try and hunt. Not to going to them to try and find a hunting PARTNER, but to hunt ON them, rather. Just to be clear.

And I didn't say npcs ALONE. I'm saying that the worse you are at doing something risky, the more actually treating it like you are bad at it makes sense. IDK. You make a valid point on the front about /not interacting with other players/ but if you are interacting with other players, then it seems like the point is moot?

[Kaathe]

We don't have a class that's only good at pick pocketing.  therefore there are plenty of ways to interact even if you're grinding steal on npcs on the side. I have a hard time imagining current staff taking issue with a well roleplayed interactive pc that secretly trains steal on npcs exclusively. 

Another idea for training with PCs : sneak gifts into friends pockets.


 note: this game is roleplay required not interaction with other players required. Though obviously it's designed for interaction being the main thrill.

[Jarvis]

but otherwise not have the entire city trying to kill you in a backroom because you failed to steal 30 coins from someone that one time.

Here here

[Fredd]

We don't have a class that's only good at pick pocketing.  therefore there are plenty of ways to interact even if you're grinding steal on npcs on the side. I have a hard time imagining current staff taking issue with a well roleplayed interactive pc that secretly trains steal on npcs exclusively. 

This is literally how I was taught, and it's how I teach newbie pickpocket/thief players.

Bonus: You can plant on NPC's too, to train your skill. back in the day, this is how a certain group of House Sworn Shadow Artists would pass out alms. Once their skills were good enough, random pc's in taverns would find gems or food in their pockets as well.

[Fredd]

a clan that

A) has no schedule
B) doesn't have a limited number of slots so i didn't oocly feel bad i was blocking other people who wanted the slot/feel like i have to play arm like a job to be deserving of it

so long as schedules/slots remain a thing for 99% of city clans i'd probably sooner stop playing arm than play in a city

Hey, I'm not noticing an answer to you. So i thought I'de toss this out there: The Guild more or less fits your needs. No Schedule, no max numbers as far as I know (if there is a max it's enough that I've never heard worry of it when I've played) And it gets a good amount of interaction since it has a distinct place in Allanak.

[Riev]

We don't have a class that's only good at pick pocketing.  therefore there are plenty of ways to interact even if you're grinding steal on npcs on the side. I have a hard time imagining current staff taking issue with a well roleplayed interactive pc that secretly trains steal on npcs exclusively. 

This is literally how I was taught, and it's how I teach newbie pickpocket/thief players.

Bonus: You can plant on NPC's too, to train your skill. back in the day, this is how a certain group of House Sworn Shadow Artists would pass out alms. Once their skills were good enough, random pc's in taverns would find gems or food in their pockets as well.

Since the before times, I have practiced with Planting pouches of coin on people. My best was a pouch filled with 300 coins without being spotted.

I used to love it. But if you get caught planting coin on someone, the same penalty/fine applies as if you tried to teal from them.

How do I know? I tried to plant spice on a Jihaen Templar. They ordered it, I was just trying to show off my skills. I failed, and they took my hat as payment.

[Fredd]

We don't have a class that's only good at pick pocketing.  therefore there are plenty of ways to interact even if you're grinding steal on npcs on the side. I have a hard time imagining current staff taking issue with a well roleplayed interactive pc that secretly trains steal on npcs exclusively. 

This is literally how I was taught, and it's how I teach newbie pickpocket/thief players.

Bonus: You can plant on NPC's too, to train your skill. back in the day, this is how a certain group of House Sworn Shadow Artists would pass out alms. Once their skills were good enough, random pc's in taverns would find gems or food in their pockets as well.

Since the before times, I have practiced with Planting pouches of coin on people. My best was a pouch filled with 300 coins without being spotted.

I used to love it. But if you get caught planting coin on someone, the same penalty/fine applies as if you tried to teal from them.

How do I know? I tried to plant spice on a Jihaen Templar. They ordered it, I was just trying to show off my skills. I failed, and they took my hat as payment.

Lucky, that's technically touching a highborn, under Old Tuluk rules.

[Wday]

Cities are set up for short stories more then lengthy played out characters it seems.

[LidlessEye]

Here's one idea. I feel compounds of large enough organizations + areas restricted to large orgs should admit people dresses in certain item(s) belonging to the clan. For example if I knocked a Byn runner unconcious and stole their aba, I should be able to enter the Byn compound since being an org with a lot of turnover who really keeps track of who's in the clan or not? Similarly with the noble quarter in Nak. If I manage to get my hands on a pitchcloak Or the cloak/insignia of some noble house, I should he able to enter the noble quarter. It's not like the guards have a computerized database with biometrics to keep track of all the noble employees.

[Gentleboy]

Here's one idea. I feel compounds of large enough organizations + areas restricted to large orgs should admit people dresses in certain item(s) belonging to the clan. For example if I knocked a Byn runner unconcious and stole their aba, I should be able to enter the Byn compound since being an org with a lot of turnover who really keeps track of who's in the clan or not? Similarly with the noble quarter in Nak. If I manage to get my hands on a pitchcloak Or the cloak/insignia of some noble house, I should he able to enter the noble quarter. It's not like the guards have a computerized database with biometrics to keep track of all the noble employees.

I think for the Byn, where they don't care so much about runners, this would be so fun. Especially cause a Sergeant could be like, "who the fuck are you?" and if they are fun and willing to RP, you can weasel your way in.

However, a perk of GMH and big clans is the protection. Which... you know.. there should be a limit to housing in a compound and we should have apartment buildings.. this is getting tricky. I'm losing my train of thought here... Lots to think about.

[Trevalyan]

Here's one idea. I feel compounds of large enough organizations + areas restricted to large orgs should admit people dresses in certain item(s) belonging to the clan.

Yeah, but then some doofus will steal everything down to the (REDACTED), then never come back. I can see this being a massive headache for anyone trying to keep things in the compound, including the storeroom, with very little upside.

As for stealing from nobles, that's even less likely. Their doorguards absolutely can recognize people who should have any access to the noble properties, and are extremely unlikely to be bribed by thieves.

[LidlessEye]

Problem is, part of why there's less espionage is noble estates are literally impossible to get into. In Nak they have double security. To infiltrate, you need to wait for noble or their aide to log in, shadow them all day long and hope they go home. It would suck if you were on their tail for like six hours and they ultimately logged out in the Arboretum.

Perhaps if the above is problematic, you could have a schedule following NPC to follow. In Nak I've seen a particular house NPC go to a certain tavern to drink at certain times of day before leaving again. I mistook them for a pc at first. Perhaps we can have these npcs go in and out of compounds etc at times.

[LidlessEye]

Here's one idea. I feel compounds of large enough organizations + areas restricted to large orgs should admit people dresses in certain item(s) belonging to the clan.

Yeah, but then some doofus will steal everything down to the (REDACTED), then never come back. I can see this being a massive headache for anyone trying to keep things in the compound, including the storeroom, with very little upside.

As for stealing from nobles, that's even less likely. Their doorguards absolutely can recognize people who should have any access to the noble properties, and are extremely unlikely to be bribed by thieves.

And I mean the guard at the noble quarter entrance, not individual estate guards