Adding a Weapon Repair Skill

[Barsook]

With the tweaking of the weapons code, would it worth adding a weapons repair skill like the armor one but where the focus is sharping and maintaining weapons? There are tools for that and I believe there is no shop or NPC that does it like armor repair.

[Brokkr]

There are currently no values on the item type to support being damaged.

[creeper386]

As talked about in Discord, there is quality on weapons.


Of course it'd require changes, but perhaps there could be a functional quality and max quality.

As damage happens, quality degrees until repaired.

I'd image the skill would determine how high quality you could repair something to. Image could be a hard total, or percentage of total quality. So unskilled repairs could repair something to 100% of original quality.

[BadSkeelz]

There are currently no values on the item type to support being damaged.

Is there actually code for a weapon to break? I don't think I've ever seen it happen, despite it being hyped up at one time as a problem in some docs somewhere.

[Hauwke]

There are currently no values on the item type to support being damaged.

Is there actually code for a weapon to break? I don't think I've ever seen it happen, despite it being hyped up at one time as a problem in some docs somewhere.

Same, never. Despite being an EG strength HG who two handed all day everyday.

At this point to me, it does not exist.

[Tuannon]

I would be in for a weapon damage system where unless you take repair measures your weapon will lose quality (as explained in the Halaster handout).

And really it'd be a problem only for commoner plebs as real people don't use weapons often enough.

[Dar]

there used to be code that allowed the weapon to break.  It wasn't super high, but a dwarf breaking 2 different weapons in a span of a 30 minute hunt was a thing I remember laughing about.  I think it got disabled.

[Veselka]

Having a weapon repair function / skill would be a pretty cool addition, and one that fits the setting as well. It would make both independent crafters and especially House Salarr far more 'in demand'.

It can be not a frustration per se but a 'thing' when you reach mid level/end game sort of with your fighter/Bynner etc, and you have 'Your Armor' and 'Your Weapon(s)'. You can get the armor fixed if it gets dented, but you don't need to worry about the weapons, you can just swap them in and out based on how well they seem to do, and for aesthetic.

It'd be neat if weapons had to be regularly repaired and maintained, and that cost money. So if you were poor, you just used poor weapons until they broke and replaced them. If you have the money/wherewithal, you fix it yourself or get it fixed often to make sure it doesn't break easily.

It'd also be cool if certain armor types broke weapons more often, and also depended on Type vs Type. So if you use an obsidian weapon on obsidian armor, it's more likely to break than say on Wood or Leather, where it might never break. Chitin vs Bone, Bone vs Wood. Makes for interesting interplay between materials.

[Nao]

Please, PLEASE, no more coded chores.

[Tuannon]

Please, PLEASE, no more coded chores.

I was thinking more so armour/weapon repair skills actually have a function. But I tend to agree.

Aside from if you're a Bynner.. Fuck you in that case, sit there and fix Trooper Amos' gear.

[Barsook]

Please, PLEASE, no more coded chores.

Valid point, but like Tuannon said it's only a Bynner thing anyways. Maybe that needs to be rethought more than anything?

[Veselka]

Please, PLEASE, no more coded chores.

Valid point, but like Tuannon said it's only a Bynner thing anyways. Maybe that needs to be rethought more than anything?

I think they mean more that it would become a coded chore for anyone (Bynners, non-Bynners, Fighters, Hunters) who wanted to maintain their weapons/help them not break. So you have to spend X Coins and Y Amount of time to get them repaired by an NPC, or a PC, and then do it again every now and again.

I get that.

[Barsook]

Then why not a weapon repair NPC? Or would that remove the need for new weapons and PC crafters/merchants?

Not trying to be snarky here if that sounded like it.

[Veselka]

Not snarky at all -- I think it's more that when you add another 'coded chore' that PCs have to maintain (cleaning blood off clothing to avoid social stigma, repairing dented armor, repairing notched weapons, getting poison cures, etc), it removes the PC from interacting with other PCs and is another, well, chore to maintain your Tomogachi PC.

I still think it would be cool. PCs could do the work for you quicker than an NPC. Maybe it's a skill that could be built into the Mercenary or other subguilds as well that are more 'Fighter Adjacent' for maintaining your own weapons.

Maybe it could provide a bonus rather than avoid a negative. So if you regularly maintain your weapons, the likelihood of breaking is lowered, and weapons of certain quality/materials gains increased damage. You could call it 'Honed'.

Make it so Metal Weapons don't have a chance of breaking.

Honed (+damage, -chance of breaking)
No Descriptor (Neutral, as it is now)
New (+chance of breaking)
Notched (++chance of breaking)
Chipped (+++chance of breaking, -damage)
Cracked (++++chance of breaking, --damage)
Broken (---damage, can be repaired up to 'Notched')

I dunno. I think it fits the setting. I'd be happy with weapons breaking all the damn time. It shows how metal weapons are far superior, and why they are so rare compared.

[Halaster]

Yeah, after I've thought about this more, I'm in agreement with Nao on this one.  I think the added tedium of weapon degradation and repair isn't worth what it adds to the game.  I'm not against the very rare occurrence of outright weapon breakage coming back, that might be fun. But not for the more detailed system of damage and repair.

[creeper386]

I think weapon breaking just outright. Would be awful. Losing to straight RNG is awful.


How tedious this could be could very well vary with how often something breaks. Maybe things only take damage not so often. If it's like armor repair or slower it wouldn't be super tedious.

[Pariah]

I think weapon breaking just outright. Would be awful. Losing to straight RNG is awful.


How tedious this could be could very well vary with how often something breaks. Maybe things only take damage not so often. If it's like armor repair or slower it wouldn't be super tedious.

It used to be a thing, I can't remember what I would hate to fight but I had a dwarf with stupid strength and he broke a bunch of weapons on a certain critter that I can't recall, wanna say maybe Gurth?

[LindseyBalboa]

Yeah, after I've thought about this more, I'm in agreement with Nao on this one.  I think the added tedium of weapon degradation and repair isn't worth what it adds to the game.  I'm not against the very rare occurrence of outright weapon breakage coming back, that might be fun. But not for the more detailed system of damage and repair.

Occasional weapon breakage... could be fun. Probably? Like the idea is cool.

Weapons you KNOW might break but they have some advantage because of that (super sharp knife that's fragile) = buy-in fun.

100% agree with weapon maintenance not being a thing. Like having to shave, just leave it for imagination. Tedious but can be fun to roleplay if choosing to.

[Barsook]

Yeah, after I've thought about this more, I'm in agreement with Nao on this one.  I think the added tedium of weapon degradation and repair isn't worth what it adds to the game.  I'm not against the very rare occurrence of outright weapon breakage coming back, that might be fun. But not for the more detailed system of damage and repair.

Fair enough, it only will lead to players quitting and more automation. Having that said, can armor repair skill be not a thing?

[Yelinak]

Seems like kind of a hassle for no meaningful gain. Armor repair is tolerable because it rarely gets damaged, can usually be repaired to full via the NPC, and armor is just less important in general than weapons. If your 1d6 weapon ends up at 1d6-2, it's like losing several tiers of strength. You also land far, far more hits than you take (in most cases), so weapons would probably degrade very quickly. It just seems like it would be really bothersome. You can do just fine in combat wearing damaged leather crap, but if your weapon degrades to the point of losing substantial damage, that'll have a huge impact on combat performance. Some character types don't really have ready access to repairs or even new weapons, so the playability would suck.

[Armaddict]

Pretty much in disagreement that it offers nothing.  Nor do you have to make this all or nothing to the point that it is a gross chore.

You can also have it grant temporary boon, which slowly degrades back to normalcy.  You can have it be a process that lasts for quite some time but prevents weapon breakage.  There's all sorts of ways to implement it that do not consist of 'Oh, I have to do this every day, why do I log in?' that some people somehow experience and still play a survival RPG.

"Chores", or rather tasks, are a godsend in these games.  Everyone claims to hate them, then claims about lack of activity, or dead areas, etc.  Tasks make people active in the game with things to do, opportunities to run into people, and organic conversations and interactions.  Sorry, but a bunch of people having free time to sit in a bar and try to conjure interaction out of thin air is actually boring af and sometimes irritating af.  The conversations are fake and fabricated, the humor is forced, the interactions are about as far away as natural as they can be (as a generalization, not a rule, don't think I'm shotgun spraying the whole crowd on their every interaction here).

Tasks provide the needs for services, they provide the hobbies and likes and dislikes, they provide the things to bitch about, they provide the goals and ambitions that characters are trying to climb their way out of.

Granted, that's not gonna change anyone's mind, but this idea that we're all supposed to log in and sit around trying to entertain each other...yeah, it doesn't make much for actual entertainment unless you were looking to play a different game from Armageddon in the first place.  Not because Armageddon can't do it, but because you'd find that exact interaction, done better, in a medium more akin to play by post or a mush, where it's all freeform.  Armageddon's entire strength, the advantage it has, -is- the coded world of tasks and automated death-world trying to eat you.

ETA:  Just as disclaimer, this is a typical 'thesis and argument' from me to discuss the reasons this is shot down.  I wouldn't actually be upset if this is not a task created.  More a response to 'we don't need more tasks', where I think that is not building on the strengths of the game.  This is not a hill I'm dying on or anything.

[Brokkr]

I'd support weapon breakage in very limited contexts.

Am I going to tell you what those are, or even announce them if I can convince Halaster?

No.

Why?

Need to up the quota of character faces expressing shock and amazement at time of death.

[Riev]

What if, similar to tools, weapons degraded slowly from their "natural" or "normal" level of quality?

With Brokkr's new implementation... your Very Good spear might slowly degrade into an Average spear, but with weapon repair, it could be brought back up to Good or even Very Good with a high roll?

So instead of weapons just outright breaking... they lose their edge and need to be worked on? Clubs need to be re-wrapped and chipped at to ensure the weight balance is correct, etc.

[Filthy_Grey_Rat]

What if, similar to tools, weapons degraded slowly from their "natural" or "normal" level of quality?

With Brokkr's new implementation... your Very Good spear might slowly degrade into an Average spear, but with weapon repair, it could be brought back up to Good or even Very Good with a high roll?

So instead of weapons just outright breaking... they lose their edge and need to be worked on? Clubs need to be re-wrapped and chipped at to ensure the weight balance is correct, etc.

Been mostly staying out of this, but this ^^^ right here. I'm down for this. Make that whetstone /mean/ something.

[Halaster]

Armaddicts thoughts are very similar to mine in a general attitude.  Some people don't like the new poison/herb system because they view it as a chore, and say it takes them away from RP'ing with others.  To that I say that the opposite can easily be true.  It gives you stuff to do together and you can RP while out doing it.

Earlier I said I don't like the idea of weapon degradation, and I generally don't as a pure chore/negative.  Riev's idea is intriguing, as is the general idea of a short-term bonus as opposed to countering a negative.  You could sharpen a sword/dagger/spear/axe, rewrap a club, etc. and basically get it bumped up a quality notch temporarily, until that wears off.  So it becomes more optional.  I'm not totally sold on that, but I'm open to having my mind changed.